Rafa Reads Riot Act to Reds*

mada999

even before i clicked on my boards.ie favourite link i knew i was going to get annoyed by some aimless kneejerking bull**** about rafa this and rafa that, crouch is this, so is kewell and traore and garcia and morientes blah blah blah. Thanks for not disappointing me lads.

[END QUOTE BY MIDGET LORD]

oh so you'd like to see kewell traore and garcia in the team every week then.....
they are muck.......

BolBill

midget lord wrote:

For the same reason i bought those nipple clamps.

Ahhhh a sadist eh ? Sure we all are mate, sure supporting the 'pool is as sadistic as it comes well with the exception of 25/05/05

Lemlin

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I live quite close to there actually and go to all of liverpools home games, the Everonians that are about on matchdays or on the odd outings that I go to liverpool for are about how they beat Liverpool in the league, or how the beast team in Europe are not the best team on Merseyside. If you have been recemtly you will have noticed similar behaviour. Even on the bus ride through the city the Everton fans were singing songs to that effect, I have some on my phone if you really need more evidence, just pm me your number and I can send them to you.
_________________________________________________________________

Nelly, let's get one thing straight, nobody called you thick, if you misinterpreted something then that is nobody elses fault but your own, you maintained you were obstinate and would argue with a wall, I maintained that the wall that you argued with would be broad wide or thick, where is the problem here. No personal abuse, but I do apologise for criticising the dimensions of a wall that you would argue with.

Fair play for finally putting the 80% of the team are liabilities thing to bed at last, one of these days you will actually come out and say, Well yeah it was a stupid thing to say and I had to defend it, but until then above outline will have to do.

Your claims innocence are very funny. Don't mean to bring this all off topic but you knew exactly what you were saying when you used the word "thick" in that thread. Both myself and other people pointed it out to you at the time. So maybe its you who should put it all to bed by apologising for your comments?

As for Liverpool, Rafa would be long gone if it wasn't for the Champions League last year. A few more results like this and all that will be forgotten though. IMO Liverpool fans should demand more of their team, they were once the biggest club in England and one of the biggest in the world. All that is forgotten now, the current crop just don't cut it.

Davei141

Your claims innocence are very funny. Don't mean to bring this all off topic but you knew exactly what you were saying when you used the word "thick" in that thread. Both myself and other people pointed it out to you at the time. So maybe its you who should put it all to bed by apologising for your comments?

Y A W N



Please for the love of all that is holy, stop whinging.

Guy:Incognito

midget lord wrote:

What makes you think that Rafa has not stood up to the board or to the players?

Whatever about the board, but he hasnt been tough enough with the players. I assume he doesnt want them to play crap and not hound the opposition for the ball. They are all standing around waiting for the ball back, not covering each other and generally not trying.

Fulhams 2nd goal at the weekend was a prime example. Carra was beaten in midfield and chased the player down. Three passes later and hes still the only player running, never mind the only one trying to win the ball. He chased 3 players while the rest stood around watching. A strong manager has the players fighting for the ball. Giles criticised Utd for the same thing in europe last week, I think its time Fergie left there aswel, they dont have the killer instinct anymore. Chelsea on the other hand are all playing like a team, covering when someone loses the ball and harrying the man who has it to try get it back.

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

theres just been something rotten about the whole club since the mid 90's. SO many average players, so much bad business been done (losing adidas as kit makers for one) i dont know if its parry or moores or who it is. but complacency seems to be the general theme of the club.

For a start what was wrong with losing Adidas as kit makers? Don't Liverpool have one of the most lucrative kit contracts at the moment? And isn't their contract one of the longer running ones in the league?

el rabitos wrote:

for years, the whole vibe i've ever had from liverpool is that everyone is in some kind of comfort zone, i dont know what it is.....does anyone think that chelsea, man utd, arsenal would have almost lost they're best player in the summer because he didnt feel wanted/needed?? not bloody likely

Gerrard wanted to leave because he didn't feel that he would be successful at Liverpool, not because he didn't feel wanted.

Didn't Arsenal lose one of there best players in the Summer? I'm sure people will claim it was for a new challenge etc etc but I'm certain Arsenal's continuous European failures is another reason.

So it obviously is "bloody likely".

el rabitos wrote:

i'm not calling for rafa to get the sack or whatever but theres something seriously rotten at that club, too many average players, no heart or desire to fight for the team (2 or 3 exceptions) the chairman and parry dont seem to have much of a killer instinct on the business side of things.

There is nothing at all rotten at a club that can accomplish the biggest over-achievement in modern football and win the CL while only be a bit part player in their own league.

It's eight bloody games into the season. Liverpool are probably only a maximum of five points off their realistic target given the teams they have played in the league. When has anything been decided after eight games of a season? We are practically through to the next round of the CL from one of the toughest groups on paper already. Our league form has been a bit disappointing but hardly chronic. The team hasn't gotten out of neutral yet.

There is tonnes of room for optimism.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

It's eight bloody games into the season. Liverpool are probably only a maximum of five points off their realistic target given the teams they have played in the league. When has anything been decided after eight games of a season? We are practically through to the next round of the CL from one of the toughest groups on paper already. Our league form has been a bit disappointing but hardly chronic. The team hasn't gotten out of neutral yet..

5 points every game is nearly 25 points over the season. Whats the realistic target 70 points maybe? So that would be 45 points finishing the season. Thats dangerously close to relegtion.

el rabitos

For a start what was wrong with losing Adidas as kit makers? Don't Liverpool have one of the most lucrative kit contracts at the moment? And isn't their contract one of the longer running ones in the league?

one of the most lucrative? 25 million a year over 5 years i believe. united and soon to be chelsea are on 300 mill over 4 years. not sure what arsenal are on right now tbh. if moores and parry were more competative liverpool would be matching chelsea and utd. the "most successfull team in the history of english football" or "5 time european champions", 2 good marketing phrases they could use trying to squeese a few more million out of kit deals no? no point having such a history of success if we can use it to our benifit.

Gerrard wanted to leave because he didn't feel that he would be successful at Liverpool, not because he didn't feel wanted.

not once did gerrard or come out and say that all summer. gerrard wanted to sign a new contract straight after the final. parry and moores went on holiday so he perceived that to mean they werent in a rush to sign him up, so he felt like he wasnt needed. - another fine example of the parry and moores sideshow

Didn't Arsenal lose one of there best players in the Summer? I'm sure people will claim it was for a new challenge etc etc but I'm certain Arsenal's continuous European failures is another reason.

So it obviously is "bloody likely".

no. arsenal SOLD one of their best players. a combination of viera wanting a new challenge and arsenal wanting to cash in on a player who isnt getting any younger. arsenal sold him and made their profit.

you think chelsea would would end up with a media frenzy like there was with gerrard because frank lampard wasnt feeling needed or wanted. no, they have peter kenyon. a w@nker by all accounts, but not a guy off on holiday when theres a bit of business to take care of.

There is nothing at all rotten at a club that can accomplish the biggest over-achievement in modern football and win the CL while only be a bit part player in their own league.

It's eight bloody games into the season. Liverpool are probably only a maximum of five points off their realistic target given the teams they have played in the league. When has anything been decided after eight games of a season? We are practically through to the next round of the CL from one of the toughest groups on paper already. Our league form has been a bit disappointing but hardly chronic. The team hasn't gotten out of neutral yet.

There is tonnes of room for optimism.

come on man, thats cr@p. Liverpool havent got out of neutral since 1990

theres just a massive sense of complacency about the club and its been like that for years. i'm not saying the league is over and sack rafa and all that bull.

"its only 8 games into the season" - "roll on january" - "next season we'll be closer" - "we'll sign some good players in the summer".....we should make a song with those phrases ffs. until someone lights a fire under the chairmans @ss and a sense of ruthlessness both on and off the pitch is found, then we'll be singing from the "maybe next season" him sheet.

winning the champions league was amazing. but greece won the european championship too. things happen.

~Rebel~

<note> just had a look at what i've written and its kinda long, ranted on a bit, sorry! sure if all else fails, skim through!</note>

Hey folks, been a while since posted last, final year college up the walls styled action for me. Anyway enough with the pleasentaries. Liverpool.
Well to be honest i barely know where to begin with whats going on, but ill start by saluting El rabitos's point, the comfort zone a lot of the players seem to experience, usually when coming from other clubs.

What really is the story with this? how is it that liverpool somehow has the ability to ruin a player. A few cases, Diouf, admittedly played out of position but its clear to everyone that regardless of his attitude his potential was nowhere near realised. Kewell, played well enough against palace, for pretty much the first time since joining liverpool save for one decent performance against Leeds in his first year, other then that, we've seen none of his potential, Heskey, came to us blasting in goals in Leicester, did the same for us for one season, then sure enough we killed him, somehow destroyed his confidence and sent him on his way. Smicer, much much coveted player when he got to Liverpool, scored in the champs league final after years of nothingness - thats all there is for him really. Baros, we all know his potential, we wont get into the should he have been kept thing, but safe to say he should have been better. Lets look at goalkeepers for a moment. Westerveld. We get him, he's great, then in a short space of time he gets crap and he's gone (remember the fumble against bolton[i think] that was his last?) Dudek, we get him, he's great, then we ruin him and his confidence is never the same again. Kirkland, we get him, he looks good, but plagued with injuries, goes out on loan and suddenly he's amazing. now we have Reina, looks ok but im not holding my breath!
You get the gist here, im sure you're all thinking of other players who could be added, basically players come to Liverpool and seem to take it easy or else find it extremely hard to recapture some of their old form.

I've recently read the Fowler auto-biography (very good read in fairness, perhaps needs to be taken with a pinch of salt) and this does pretty much explain some of the underperformances, citing Thompson and Houllier as terrible to work for and pretty much totally unapproachable with no team spirit. Others have agreed with this, Diouf, Baros. But now they're gone we have a brand spanking new management but still the complacency lingers. What is it?!
Well, while i still totally trust Rafa and believe he plans to totally shuffle the club and have an almost unidentifiable team from that which he inherited, some of his decisions absolutely baffle me. And im sure im not alone. he's obviously not a stupid man so what is it?! How can an intelligent man continue to play Traore, the biggest liability of a player i've ever seen at a decent club. Id take pascal cygan any day over him! Josemi, should never be picked so long as Finnan is fit. Again im sure there is pretty much universal agreement here. Cisse. Whether you like him or hate him, nobody can deny he is the only Liverpool striker who looks like scoring. When he plays up front, he may get 20 chances but he also looks like scoring one, and if a striker wastes lots but still gets a goal a game - I dont care about the misses! He comes out and says he needs to be playing up front, after suffering on the wing all year, rafa (fair ****s to him here) starts him up front in 2 games in a row and he scores a goal in each game. yes he missed chances but he got the goals the crouch and El Moro haven't. What happened next? For the following game he starts against Fulham, but on the wing with Kewell and Moro up front. We dont score. Crystal Palace, Crouch and Moro up front, Cisse not even in the squad. We get one from Midfield (Stevie G of course). Can anyone see a trend? Cisse is the only Liverpool striker to score in english competition this year. Moro's 2 only goals were aginst Sofia and Pongolle's was against Betis, meanwhile Crouch has yet to net despite 11 starts. Now by all means play either Moro or Crouch so one can get confidence, but play them beside cisse who Has the confidence and Has scored goals. What is rafa doing?! If him and Cisse are fighting, all well and good surely they can compromise that cisse can leave in January and its better for both parties if he's playing well and scoring till christmas as he can command a better team and better wages while pool get the goals they need. Surely the club is the most important factor here?

Midfield, we all know Alonso and Gerrard are the best central pairing. I've been thinking recently that maybe an all out attacking gerrard isn't the best answer, perhaps himself and alonso go back to sharing the midfield responsibilities, as i dont think we've seen the best of alonso beside gerrard as he tends to get shut out in the hamann role, and he's so much more then that potentially to the team. Gerrard earned his name as a box to box player, which he still does to a point, but his official role under rafa has clearly become a Ballack-esque one. Maybe let them form more of a partnership, swapping who drops back and who roams forward. After all both are pretty complete midfielders. We need a RW as we all know, hopefully Kewell can be snapped out of his complacency to take LW and so Riise can be put into traore's position. Not much point going into anything on defence as anything i could say has been said a million times before - new CB.

Ach the stress's of being a liverpool fan!
again sorry for the length..

Necronomicon

I don't think Crouch/Morientes up front works, I think it has to be one or the other. Crouch had a bit of a horror-show, felt sorry for the lad for being booed every time he touched the ball (for being sent off there last season when playing for Southampton I'm guessing?). Morientes played well I thought, made himself some good chances but just didn't have that clinical edge. Maybe he is lacking match-fitness, maybe it was because Speroni was having a terrific game. I still think Nando/Cisse is probably the best option up front.
Potter/Kewell played well on the wings. I know Potter is more of a central player, but I thought he played really well. He chucked some good crosses into the box, and I thought his distribution was pretty good overall. Kewell looked pretty fit and and confident. Plus, he had a good (but hard) chance on the volley in the first half that just went over.
I don't think Liverpool were particularly bad last night, but Palace I thought were better. And when a Championship side out-battles the European Champions, questions will be asked.

On a side-note, last year's finalists both knocked out in the first round! I wonder when was the last time that happened..

Jivin Turkey

Stekelly wrote:

5 points every game is nearly 25 points over the season. Whats the realistic target 70 points maybe? So that would be 45 points finishing the season. Thats dangerously close to relegtion.

Unfortunately however Liverpool won't have to play Manchester United, Chelsea at home, and Spurs and Middlesboro away for half their remaining games of the season.

el rabitos wrote:

one of the most lucrative? 25 million a year over 5 years i believe. united and soon to be chelsea are on 300 mill over 4 years. not sure what arsenal are on right now tbh. if moores and parry were more competative liverpool would be matching chelsea and utd. the "most successfull team in the history of english football" or "5 time european champions", 2 good marketing phrases they could use trying to squeese a few more million out of kit deals no? no point having such a history of success if we can use it to our benifit.

Yes one of the most lucrative.

United's deal is about £300M over 13 years not four, considerably slashing your estimation. I also don't think Liverpool's is as high as £25M a season, I think it is actually closer to £7M (for three years) only behind United on an amount per year basis (until whenever Chelsea's deal kicks in).

el rabitos wrote:

not once did gerrard or come out and say that all summer. gerrard wanted to sign a new contract straight after the final. parry and moores went on holiday so he perceived that to mean they werent in a rush to sign him up, so he felt like he wasnt needed. - another fine example of the parry and moores sideshow

Fact of the matter is there was a contract on the table for Gerrard all season for signing. The whole "They didn't approach me after the final" was an excuse so Gerrard wouldn't seem like the bad guy. The contract was there all year.

Believe if you wish that Gerrard's reason for deciding to leave was that he didn't feel like he was wanted, but I don't think you are really that naive.

el rabitos wrote:

no. arsenal SOLD one of their best players. a combination of viera wanting a new challenge and arsenal wanting to cash in on a player who isnt getting any younger. arsenal sold him and made their profit.

The exact same thing that Liverpool would have done had Gerrard not had a change of heart.

Only Liverpool managed to keep their best player, Arsenal didn't get to keep (one of) their best player(s).

Both scenario's were somewhat similar, the players wanted to leave, the club were prepared to let the players go at the right price if that's what the player wanted.

el rabitos wrote:

you think chelsea would would end up with a media frenzy like there was with gerrard because frank lampard wasnt feeling needed or wanted. no, they have peter kenyon. a w@nker by all accounts, but not a guy off on holiday when theres a bit of business to take care of.

No. But there will never be that because players will never want to leave Chelsea because they are the best at the moment. Same way a player would never contemplate leaving United while they were at the top.

el rabitos wrote:

come on man, thats cr@p. Liverpool havent got out of neutral since 1990

That's garbage. Have you been watching them since then? Liverpool fell considerably back during the 90s but during Houllier's early years steadily improved, winning lots of trophies, and culminating in a first top two finish in almost ten years. Houllier was never the same after his heart op.

I had full confidence in Benetiz's ability to take Liverpool to the top, yet alone get them out of neutral. Unlike you, winning the CL hasn't changed that opinion.

el rabitos wrote:

"its only 8 games into the season" - "roll on january" - "next season we'll be closer" - "we'll sign some good players in the summer".....we should make a song with those phrases ffs. until someone lights a fire under the chairmans @ss and a sense of ruthlessness both on and off the pitch is found, then we'll be singing from the "maybe next season" him sheet.

It is only eight games into the season. The squad will be improved in January (particularly after being left in the lurch in August over certain players by certain clubs). We will sign some good players in the Summer. Maybe next season we can launch a more realistic title assault.

People like you want too much too soon. Before a ball was kicked Liverpool were in no shape to realistically challenge the top three, and nothing has changed. In my prediction for the year I said Liverpool for third, but only as a target to strive for, aim high and all that.

It's disappointing to have only won two out of eight league games so far this year but it is no crisis. The club is going in the right direction, but it's not going to happen over night.

el rabitos wrote:

winning the champions league was amazing. but greece won the european championship too. things happen.

Yes, winning the CL was amazing. This Liverpool team will go down in history.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Unfortunately however Liverpool won't have to play Manchester United, Chelsea at home, and Spurs and Middlesboro away for half their remaining games of the season..

Spurs and Boro are teams we should be beating. Bar the very occasional slip up ( the last two championships have been one with only 1 game lost out of 76, and now chelsea are unbeaten in 10) the only teams that should pose a problem are Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal. Loseing 4-1 at home to chelsea is not acceptable, Losing anywhere to fulham is not acceptable. Scoring just over half a goal a game is not acceptable. Even if we'd only lost 1-0 to Chelsea , we'd still have a negative goal difference.

Wigan have played Chelsea, Charlton, Sunderland, West Brom, Boro, Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Villa. They have 19 points. Do you honestly believe that, on current form, we'd be anywhere near 19 points with that list of fixtures? It's not who you play, It's how you play.

It's easy to say that January will change things, but at this rate, we'll be out of contention for anything resembling a spot for european qualification. Your red tinted glasses are seriously effecting your views.

TheMonster

Apparently only 9 league wins this calendar year. Thats not the form of a team challenging for anything bar relegation.

PHB

I still think 3rd is an unrealistic target for Liverpool to set, 4th should be their chief priority.
Once they make it so that there is a top 4, then they can work on challenging the top 3.
Spurs and Charlton right now are doing better than Liverpool.
Spurs are a team that looks like they can continue this run, especially with the youth in their team who just run and run and run.
Liverpool have to start grinding out results against teams who sit back and defend, and I've still yet to see this from them.
That said, I don't think their season has been bad so far.
They have had a pretty hard run of games, and losing to Spurs and Boro isn't the end of the world.

The league table at Christmas is a better reflection of how well Liverpool are doing, and I imagine they will be defo top 5, and maybe even 3rd.

Lemlin

Interesting point I read today on the net that Houllier had a far better record in his last 40 PL games or so (when everyone was calling for his head) than Rafa has had so far.

el rabitos

People like you want too much too soon. Before a ball was kicked Liverpool were in no shape to realistically challenge the top three, and nothing has changed. In my prediction for the year I said Liverpool for third, but only as a target to strive for, aim high and all that.

what the **** do you mean "people like me"? you obviously have your red blinkers on man, because complacency is rife at the club and its been like that for the best part of 15 years.

sure we won some cups with GH, but i'd trade them all in for a league title.

i think rafa benitez is a top manager, and i do think he knows whats wrong and what needs to be fixed. but whatever it is going on with players that come to liverpool, they just wont show any heart or desire to raise their game against smaller teams

they dont seem to realise u get the same amount of points for beating wigan that u get for beating chelsea.

In MY opinion theres a massive comfort zone thing going on at liverpool, and the signs of it changing are minimal to be honest.

if your going to counter any arguement with the fact that we won the champions league then, your like far too many liverpool fans imo. its great to say we're 5 times champions of europe, but again, i'd trade it in to say we're 19 time champions of england and look like we can compete for the 20th

i can see why fans of other teams laugh at liverpool fans that think we're going to break into the top 3, because with whats going on at the club it IS laughable at times. i'm a massive liverpool fan, so if i can see the problems i dont see why u cant.

Lemlin

el rabitos wrote:

they dont seem to realise u get the same amount of points for beating wigan that u get for beating chelsea.

I don't think it matters how many points they think they'd get at the minute because they'd beat neither

Kingp35

Necromomicon wrote:

On a side-note, last year's finalists both knocked out in the first round! I wonder when was the last time that happened..

It was the third round mate

BolBill

el rabitos wrote:

what the **** do you mean "people like me"? you obviously have your red blinkers on man, because complacency is rife at the club and its been like that for the best part of 15 years.

sure we won some cups with GH, but i'd trade them all in for a league title.

i think rafa benitez is a top manager, and i do think he knows whats wrong and what needs to be fixed. but whatever it is going on with players that come to liverpool, they just wont show any heart or desire to raise their game against smaller teams

they dont seem to realise u get the same amount of points for beating wigan that u get for beating chelsea.

In MY opinion theres a massive comfort zone thing going on at liverpool, and the signs of it changing are minimal to be honest.

if your going to counter any arguement with the fact that we won the champions league then, your like far too many liverpool fans imo. its great to say we're 5 times champions of europe, but again, i'd trade it in to say we're 19 time champions of england and look like we can compete for the 20th

i can see why fans of other teams laugh at liverpool fans that think we're going to break into the top 3, because with whats going on at the club it IS laughable at times. i'm a massive liverpool fan, so if i can see the problems i dont see why u cant.

Well done mate, good post.

Personally I think we have not enough players playing for the jersey. The likes of Crouch, Troare, Zenden, Sissoko are IMO just not good enough and should not have been bought in the first place (yeah I know Zenden was on a free and thats what hes worth), the remaining players just don't perform up to a consistant level week in week out (with some exceptions I know). We haven't won three league games on the trot for God knows how long. Its worrying to say the least. I agree that (even more so after May 25th) that players are in the comfort zone at Liverpool. Personally I'd love if Moores went and sold the club to whoever wants to put money in because we have feck all it seems. Wasting 7 million on a striker that had half a good season at Southampton (who were still relegated) and that never fitted in at his 7 (or what not) previous clubs is a huge mistake. We spent 11 million on Heskey and got one season out of him, Crouch is not even heading that way. It should be noted that very little coverage is been given to his awful start because he is English and Sven will pick him for his squad because Sven likes to bombard his squad with Liverpool, Man U, Arsenal and Chelsea players, not his ACTUAL best squad.

Against Palace (who were missing 4 or 5 first team regulars) the other night we showed that we are easy to play against.

Its heart breaking to be honest

Jivin Turkey

Stekelly wrote:

Spurs and Boro are teams we should be beating.

Excuse me? And you claim I have "red-tinted glasses" on? The only teams that "should" (or is it more accurate to say would?) be beating Spurs and Boro away from home are United, Arsenal and Chelsea. Because they are miles ahead of everyone else.

Spurs and Boro are at the same level as Liverpool, they have been for years. Go do some research and tell me how many times Liverpool have won in the Riverside or at WHL in the last 15 years. You will only need one hand.

As Liverpool are at roughly the same level as these teams, draws away from home are good results. Wins at home are what is required to finish ahead of them.

Stekelly wrote:

Bar the very occasional slip up ( the last two championships have been one with only 1 game lost out of 76, and now chelsea are unbeaten in 10) the only teams that should pose a problem are Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal.

What are you saying here? Bar the occassional slip up Liverpool should be beating everyone in the league bar Chelsea, Arsenal and United? Get real man! Listen to what you are saying!

Stekelly wrote:

Wigan have played Chelsea, Charlton, Sunderland, West Brom, Boro, Everton, Bolton, Newcastle and Villa. They have 19 points. Do you honestly believe that, on current form, we'd be anywhere near 19 points with that list of fixtures? It's not who you play, It's how you play.

Yes I would. Seeing as we are on 10 points after eight games, I could see us coming close to 19 if we were to play an extra game and sub in Bolton and Charlton for United and Spurs.

Stekelly wrote:

It's easy to say that January will change things, but at this rate, we'll be out of contention for anything resembling a spot for european qualification. Your red tinted glasses are seriously effecting your views.

Again can I have some of what you are smoking? At this rate we will be out of contention for any spot in January?

Again do some research. Last year Everton won 14/39 points available to them from February. That means a team with as little as 22 points from 25 games could have got a CL place had they won 13 straight at the end of the season. Now while I dont expect Liverpool to break records of notching B2B straight wins, I dont expect them to just get 12 points from their next 17 games either.

Nothing is decided after eight games. Nothing is decided in January. Liverpool could be in the relegation zone at Christmas and still come fourth.

el rabitos wrote:

what the **** do you mean "people like me"? you obviously have your red blinkers on man, because complacency is rife at the club and its been like that for the best part of 15 years.

I mean people like you that actually think Liverpool should be challenging for the title. Face facts, Chelsea are on another planet, United and Arsenal are miles ahead. Its you that has the red blinkers on not me!

The team is re-building, the manager has been in the job little over 12 months. The team has already won the most coveted prize in club football. Yet you are getting you knickers in a twist because we aren't looking our noses down at Chelsea? Give me a break.

el rabitos wrote:

if your going to counter any arguement with the fact that we won the champions league then, your like far too many liverpool fans imo. its great to say we're 5 times champions of europe, but again, i'd trade it in to say we're 19 time champions of england and look like we can compete for the 20th

i can see why fans of other teams laugh at liverpool fans that think we're going to break into the top 3, because with whats going on at the club it IS laughable at times. i'm a massive liverpool fan, so if i can see the problems i dont see why u cant.

No I'm going to counter your arguement by saying seven years ago Liverpool were going nowhere. Two years ago it was the same. Last year we got a new manager, we then went on to win the biggest competition in Europe, almost win the Carling Cup and at the same time miss out on our only realistic legaue placing by the skin of our teeth, and all this despite an injury list as long as Claude Makelelé's penis.

This year has been unspiring in the leauge, but the one thing that is blatantly obvious is that the team is much harder to beat, they are defending well. We are almost already through to the knockout stages in Europe. The team is going in the right direction. Its being built from the back like any manager worth his salt will do (remember Chelsea early last year?). The team is yet to get any sort of momentum but we are hardly out of sight of anyone bar Chelsea.

You are going on like there is some cancer at Liverpool. As I said, are Liverpool not the most over-achieving club in Europe at the moment? You claiming the board is not ruthless enough, citing our crap (well second best actually) sponsorship deal as an example. Why dont you also cite that they were the first ever Liverpool board to sack a manager, now they have two to their name.

Im as disappointed as anyone to see the team turning in flat displays. But I also know that the team is much better than that. And Im happy in the knowledge that if we can go to Boro, Spurs, or play United, and be brutal and still come away with something, than we are doing something right.

But I suppose what do I know, sure maybe Im just senile, after all isn't the season is over already?

el rabitos

My knickers in a twist? the lenght of Claude Makelelé's penis? - Men in womens underwear and the lenght of a players schlong have nothing to do with the topic tbh

I mean people like you that actually think Liverpool should be challenging for the title. Face facts, Chelsea are on another planet, United and Arsenal are miles ahead. Its you that has the red blinkers on not me!

feel free to read any of my posts, not once did i say i thought or expected liverpool to even get sniff of the league title this year.

Its being built from the back like any manager worth his salt will do (remember Chelsea early last year?). The team is yet to get any sort of momentum but we are hardly out of sight of anyone bar Chelsea.

what have we built exactly? improved the keeper perhaps. but hyypia is older and slower, carra and finnan are consistant ok, traore and josemi have no business being regulars in any team in the top 10 tbh, the subs are kids and reserves. nothings been built yet.

You are going on like there is some cancer at Liverpool. As I said, are Liverpool not the most over-achieving club in Europe at the moment? You claiming the board is not ruthless enough, citing our crap (well second best actually) sponsorship deal as an example. Why dont you also cite that they were the first ever Liverpool board to sack a manager, now they have two to their name

wow, the board SACKED a manager....so? thats what happens when managers dont deliver after been given ample time.

when players cant find the heart to put in the same performances against sub par teams as they do against top teams then for all intents and purposes the club might aswell have cancer.

but your right. the best football teams are built from the back. and the best football teams are built from the top, as in the chairman and the men running the show.

Guy:Incognito

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Excuse me? And you claim I have "red-tinted glasses" on? The only teams that "should" (or is it more accurate to say would?) be beating Spurs and Boro away from home are United, Arsenal and Chelsea. Because they are miles ahead of everyone else.

Spurs and Boro are at the same level as Liverpool, they have been for years. Go do some research and tell me how many times Liverpool have won in the Riverside or at WHL in the last 15 years. You will only need one hand.

As Liverpool are at roughly the same level as these teams, draws away from home are good results. Wins at home are what is required to finish ahead of them.

I'm fully aware that we are on the same level as them. My point is that we shouldnt be. We should be a stepabove them and beating them.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

What are you saying here? Bar the occassional slip up Liverpool should be beating everyone in the league bar Chelsea, Arsenal and United? Get real man! Listen to what you are saying!

Chelsea did it last season and Arsenal the season before that. The only blip between them was Chelsea losing to City. Thats the level we are goingh to have to rise to. At th erate the team is "improving" the current lot of payers will be dead by the time we win the league again.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Yes I would. Seeing as we are on 10 points after eight games, I could see us coming close to 19 if we were to play an extra game and sub in Bolton and Charlton for United and Spurs.

It may have escaped your notice but Bolton and Charlton are above us becaus ethey are winnign games and we are not.So how do you reckon we would have beaten both of them with a scoring average of just over .6 a game?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Again can I have some of what you are smoking? At this rate we will be out of contention for any spot in January?

Again do some research. Last year Everton won 14/39 points available to them from February. That means a team with as little as 22 points from 25 games could have got a CL place had they won 13 straight at the end of the season. Now while I dont expect Liverpool to break records of notching B2B straight wins, I dont expect them to just get 12 points from their next 17 games either..

Your own figures are enough research. So Everton got 14 points from 39, does that not make Liverpool even worse that they couldnt overtake Everton?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Liverpool could be in the relegation zone at Christmas and still come fourth...

No they couldnt. Mathematically, Everton can still win the league, they wont though, and I'd stake every penny of my future earnings on that.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

Nothing is decided after eight games. Nothing is decided in January.

There is 9 games between now and Dec 31st. allowing for a 100% increase in the amount of wins and draws that would leave us on 30 points. Not a position I would be looking at comfortably getting into the top 4 from. Plus when you factor in a season and a hal of mediocrity, where is this sudden dramatic jump in form that will have us winning 2 or 3 out of every 4 games going to come from?

Jivin Turkey wrote:

I mean people like you that actually think Liverpool should be challenging for the title. Face facts, Chelsea are on another planet, United and Arsenal are miles ahead. Its you that has the red blinkers on not me

Whereas people like you feel it is acceptable to slip so far behind these teams.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

The team is re-building, the manager has been in the job little over 12 months. The team has already won the most coveted prize in club football. Yet you are getting you knickers in a twist because we aren't looking our noses down at Chelsea? Give me a break.

During a rebuilding phase an increase in form is usually a good sign that its working, where is the good sign, it doesnt look even remotly on the horizon.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

No I'm going to counter your arguement by saying seven years ago Liverpool were going nowhere. Two years ago it was the same. Last year we got a new manager, we then went on to win the biggest competition in Europe, almost win the Carling Cup and at the same time miss out on our only realistic legaue placing by the skin of our teeth, and all this despite an injury list as long as Claude Makelelé's penis..

So seven years ao we were ****, then we won some cups, then two years ago we were ****e, then we won a couple of cups. Not a pattern I'd like to see continue.

The whole point is that it came down to missing out by the skin of our teeth to a team that got 14 from a possible 39 points in their run in. Thats nothing short of terrible. We also only came fifth by the skin of our teeth btw.

Jivin Turkey wrote:

This year has been unspiring in the leauge, but the one thing that is blatantly obvious is that the team is much harder to beat, they are defending well. We are almost already through to the knockout stages in Europe. The team is going in the right direction. Its being built from the back like any manager worth his salt will do (remember Chelsea early last year?). The team is yet to get any sort of momentum but we are hardly out of sight of anyone bar Chelsea

I'd hardly call an unchanged defence (that needs 2 permenant changes) building at all, let alone from the back. We have a negative goal difference.

d22ontour

Stekelly wrote:

At the rate the team is "improving" the current lot of payers will be dead by the time we win the league again.

Is that such a bad thing.:D

Lemlin

One thing that intrigues me at the moment is Danny Murphy. He's in the form of his life at Charlton but Liverpool let him go last year for a paltry 2 million. I wonder if Benitez regrets that now.

therecklessone

Stekelly wrote:

Spurs and Boro are teams we should be beating. Bar the very occasional slip up ( the last two championships have been one with only 1 game lost out of 76, and now chelsea are unbeaten in 10) the only teams that should pose a problem are Chelsea, Utd and Arsenal.

I can't see where this superiority complex comes from TBH. Last year's CL aside, Liverpool's league form has been inconsistent (in relation to the stated aim of winning the league). They've only finished in the top 3 twice in the last 5 seasons, and in the last three year's have been 5th, 4th, and 5th. In fairness, thats pretty consistent, but not if you want to win the league.

So yes, there will be other sides who'll cause you problems, other sides who may challenge you for a top 4 finish (and thats the most I expect you to get.) And yes, you will drop points against so-called whipping boys, no more than anyone else in the league will.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote:

I can't see where this superiority complex comes from TBH. Last year's CL aside, Liverpool's league form has been inconsistent (in relation to the stated aim of winning the league). They've only finished in the top 3 twice in the last 5 seasons, and in the last three year's have been 5th, 4th, and 5th. In fairness, thats pretty consistent, but not if you want to win the league.

So yes, there will be other sides who'll cause you problems, other sides who may challenge you for a top 4 finish (and thats the most I expect you to get.) And yes, you will drop points against so-called whipping boys, no more than anyone else in the league will.

Its still early in the season but I wouldn't expect Liverpool to finish above Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Tottenham or Charlton.

seabee

Lemlin wrote:

One thing that intrigues me at the moment is Danny Murphy. He's in the form of his life at Charlton but Liverpool let him go last year for a paltry 2 million. I wonder if Benitez regrets that now.

I think the decision wasn't made for footballing reasons-it was to break up "cliques" in the dressing room.

Lemlin

seabee wrote:

I think the decision wasn't made for footballing reasons-it was to break up "cliques" in the dressing room.

If that is the case then its another showing of Benitez's indecision. Even the title of this thread - I can't imagine Benitez eating the head off anyone.

That's why Jose Mourinho has such respect from his players. I imagine if he was Liverpool manager, he'd have no problem in dropping the whole team to teach them a lesson and playing the U21 side or something.

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

feel free to read any of my posts, not once did i say i thought or expected liverpool to even get sniff of the league title this year.

So what are your expectations? Because you seem pretty certain that they won't be achieved. And the reality of it is, aside from 1st, any position is still attainable.

el rabitos wrote:

what have we built exactly? improved the keeper perhaps. but hyypia is older and slower, carra and finnan are consistant ok, traore and josemi have no business being regulars in any team in the top 10 tbh, the subs are kids and reserves. nothings been built yet.

A team can improve without making any additions to its players. Liverpool are doing that. The players are so much more comfortable with Benetiz's defensive system. Remember last year we were leaking goals from set pieces left right and centre?

Add to that the bench now comprises of the likes of Dudek, Hamann, Zenden, Kewell, Sissoko, Cisse, Pongolle, hardly what I'd label "kids and reserves".

el rabitos wrote:

wow, the board SACKED a manager....so? thats what happens when managers dont deliver after been given ample time.

Personally I don't really care whether they did or not. But the fact of the matter is you claimed the board are not ruthless enough, and cited their poor sponsorship deal as one instance, I mentioned that they were the first board to sack a Liverpool manager, and then made it two in five years. How exactly do you want them to be more ruthless? Start sacking players?

el rabitos wrote:

when players cant find the heart to put in the same performances against sub par teams as they do against top teams then for all intents and purposes the club might aswell have cancer.

Havn't Liverpool's only wins this year in the league come against "sub-par teams"? Blackburn and Sunderland are hardly world beaters.

el rabitos wrote:

but your right. the best football teams are built from the back. and the best football teams are built from the top, as in the chairman and the men running the show.

So what have the board done that is so bad, apart from get one of the best managers in Europe to run the team, and give him loads of money?

Stekelly wrote:

I'm fully aware that we are on the same level as them. My point is that we shouldnt be. We should be a stepabove them and beating them.

How should we be above them? The only teams above them and who should be beating them home and away are the ones who have worked on it for years, United and Arsenal, and then obviously Chelsea.

We one the other hand are on a similar level, but to get ahead of them we have to beat them at home, and avoid defeat away. So half the job is done.

Stekelly wrote:

Chelsea did it last season and Arsenal the season before that. The only blip between them was Chelsea losing to City. Thats the level we are goingh to have to rise to. At th erate the team is "improving" the current lot of payers will be dead by the time we win the league again.

You are probably right. But my point is that level of performance is not going to come overnight. So stop getting so worked up about it and get behind the manager, players and board. We have all the ingredients for a league winning team, but it will still take a while to cook the broth.

Stekelly wrote:

It may have escaped your notice but Bolton and Charlton are above us becaus ethey are winnign games and we are not.So how do you reckon we would have beaten both of them with a scoring average of just over .6 a game?

Are you saying Bolton and Charlton are tougher games than United and Spurs? I'm not saying they are a certain six points, but I'm sure we could at least improve on two.

Stekelly wrote:

Your own figures are enough research. So Everton got 14 points from 39, does that not make Liverpool even worse that they couldnt overtake Everton?

Well yes and no. Obviously Liverpool weren't good enough to overtake them, but to ignore the mitigating circumstances and their effect would be foolish.

Still goes to show though, Portsmouth could have finished fourth if they had won all their remaining games from February, when they were fourth last.

Stekelly wrote:

No they couldnt. Mathematically, Everton can still win the league, they wont though, and I'd stake every penny of my future earnings on that.

Yes they could. As I said above, Portsmouth were a place off the relegation zone in February, and could have come fourth.

I won't take your Everton bet but I'll bet you Liverpool will come fourth or even fifth as you appear to already think these outcomes are out of the question.

Stekelly wrote:

Plus when you factor in a season and a hal of mediocrity,where is this sudden dramatic jump in form that will have us winning 2 or 3 out of every 4 games going to come from?

Where are you getting a season and a half? I thought RB was in the job little over a year. And it's not been mediocre it's been inconsistent. Some of the performances have been breathtaking, so they will come again from where they came from before, lets just hope they havng around for longer.

Stekelly wrote:

Whereas people like you feel it is acceptable to slip so far behind these teams.

Eh, where did I say it was acceptable? I've accepted that it has happened, there is a difference. I never wanted it to happen but it has, now its time to try and get back to where we were.

Stekelly wrote:

During a rebuilding phase an increase in form is usually a good sign that its working, where is the good sign, it doesnt look even remotly on the horizon.

Where is the sign? How about 25/5/05. Is that not sign enough for you to know that the right man is in the job?

Stekelly wrote:

I'd hardly call an unchanged defence (that needs 2 permenant changes) building at all, let alone from the back. We have a negative goal difference.

As I said above, it doesn't require a change in personnel to change a defence. So what if we have a negative goal difference, so did Everton last year for the season. Aside from the shambles of the Chelsea game the defence has been very tight in the CL and PL.

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

If that is the case then its another showing of Benitez's indecision. Even the title of this thread - I can't imagine Benitez eating the head off anyone.

How is that a sign of indecision? The complete opposite if anything. Benetiz arrived and shipped out Murphy, Owen and Heskey quick smart, ruthless if you ask me. Murphy wasn't great in his last Liverpool year, and he wasn't great last year either.

He's playing great now and I'd love to have him back on current form but it's easy to look back this year and say maybe he shouldn't have sold him. On the balance of it, I'm not that disappointed.

Lemlin

Jivin Turkey wrote:

How is that a sign of indecision? The complete opposite if anything. Benetiz arrived and shipped out Murphy, Owen and Heskey quick smart, ruthless if you ask me. Murphy wasn't great in his last Liverpool year, and he wasn't great last year either.

He's playing great now and I'd love to have him back on current form but it's easy to look back this year and say maybe he shouldn't have sold him. On the balance of it, I'm not that disappointed.

My point is that he shouldn't be shipping out good players because of cliques or silly reasons like that. If he had a pair of b****s like Mourinho, he'd lay down the law to his players.

Benitez doesn't seem to be able to do that. Maybe he's just too nice for the job. As for getting rid of Heskey and Owen, they've more league goals this season than any Liverpool striker!

And I'd put money on Owen scoring more than Crouch, Morientes and Cisse combined if he gets going at Newcastle.

el rabitos

So what are your expectations? Because you seem pretty certain that they won't be achieved. And the reality of it is, aside from 1st, any position is still attainable

*yawn*

what i and i reckon most liverpool fans expected is for liverpool to finish 3rd or 4th. BUT to do it compfortably. not scrape and claw into 4th on the last day of the season or something.

Add to that the bench now comprises of the likes of Dudek, Hamann, Zenden, Kewell, Sissoko, Cisse, Pongolle, hardly what I'd label "kids and reserves".

i was talking about the defence since you claimed we were being built from the back....how many times and where in defence does zenden, kewel, sissoko, cisse or pongolle play?

Havn't Liverpool's only wins this year in the league come against "sub-par teams"? Blackburn and Sunderland are hardly world beaters

1 goal from a set piece to beat sunderland? ....yeah, not exactly a convincing perfomance either.

bleh....i'm sick of your posts knit-picking other peoples posts with your red blinkers on....couldnt be bothered responding to u tbh

Chucky the tree

Lemlin wrote:

My point is that he shouldn't be shipping out good players because of cliques or silly reasons like that. If he had a pair of b****s like Mourinho, he'd lay down the law to his players. .

Murphy wasnt really a good player in his last season at liverpool. So thats why he got rid of him.

Chucky the tree

el rabitos wrote:

*yawn*

what i and i reckon most liverpool fans expected is for liverpool to finish 3rd or 4th. BUT to do it compfortably. not scrape and claw into 4th on the last day of the season or something.

i dont know any pool fan who thought we would get 3rd or or 4th comfortably. Especially when you look at the team SPurs have build recently. YOu seem to think liverpool somehow have a good given right to finish 3rd and 4th.


And you accuse other people of having on red-blinkers?

priceless.

el rabitos

i dont know any pool fan who thought we would get 3rd or or 4th comfortably. Especially when you look at the team SPurs have build recently. YOu seem to think liverpool somehow have a good given right to finish 3rd and 4th.

well if you and your friends didnt expect that from liverpool then clearly your right and i'm wrong in expecting the "champions of europe" to finish comfortably enough in the top 4 of their domestic league.

thats what I (me) expected/hoped for this season, and many people i've talked to, and what a good majority of fans on this site were hoping for during the summer.

And you accuse other people of having on red-blinkers?

i'll add you to the red blinkers list then. everything will work out fine at liverpool. no chance of there being any major problems at the club, oh and hooray for optimism.

priceless tbh

TheMonster

Norwich
Charlton
Fulham
Everton
Bolton
Portsmouth
Villa
Sunderland
Blackburn

These are the only team Liverpool have beaten in the PL in this calendat year, hardly the form of a top 4 aiming team.

Question for Pool fans - How bad would things have to go for Benitez to get the boot - would bottom 6 in March cause it or would it have to be relegation?

mike65

I wish I'd never started this thread.

Mike.

Lemlin

mike65 wrote:

I wish I'd never started this thread.

Mike.

If you hadn't, someone else would of.

Jivin Turkey

TheMonster wrote:

Norwich
Charlton
Fulham
Everton
Bolton
Portsmouth
Villa
Sunderland
Blackburn

These are the only team Liverpool have beaten in the PL in this calendat year, hardly the form of a top 4 aiming team.

Question for Pool fans - How bad would things have to go for Benitez to get the boot - would bottom 6 in March cause it or would it have to be relegation?

What is your point here apart from blatant trolling?

What is the form required for a team aiming for top four? Bear in mind Spurs have only won 11 league games this calendar year (Liverpool have ten now), Charlton only have nine, Everton have seven, and Newcastle have seven.

I've said it to you before, and do a search of your own posts to prove it to you, about 60% of all your posts on this forum are anti-Liverpool stuff. Most of them little one liners offering zero insight. Why have such a chip on your shoulder against a team that can be so poor?

Jivin Turkey

el rabitos wrote:

*yawn*

what i and i reckon most liverpool fans expected is for liverpool to finish 3rd or 4th. BUT to do it compfortably. not scrape and claw into 4th on the last day of the season or something.

el rabitos wrote:

well if you and your friends didnt expect that from liverpool then clearly your right and i'm wrong in expecting the "champions of europe" to finish comfortably enough in the top 4 of their domestic league.

thats what I (me) expected/hoped for this season, and many people i've talked to, and what a good majority of fans on this site were hoping for during the summer.

What the **** are you yawning about? You are talking like the league is already over. Cop yourself on. I fully expect Liverpool to get fourth, and not have to scrape it on the last day. There is plenty of football left in the season, and already today Liverpool have closed the apparently unbridgable gap to some of their rivals for that fourth spot.

Answer me one thing, did I miss the leagues placing being decided already?

el rabitos wrote:

i was talking about the defence since you claimed we were being built from the back....how many times and where in defence does zenden, kewel, sissoko, cisse or pongolle play?

We are building from the back. Six clean sheets in nine premiership games, the best clean sheet record in the Premiership. Add to that two out of three in the CL, including two away trips. Obviously people like Traore and Josemi are doing better than people are giving them credit for.

el rabitos wrote:

bleh....i'm sick of your posts knit-picking other peoples posts with your red blinkers on....couldnt be bothered responding to u tbh

I'm just addressing individual things you say, and highlighting some the inaccuracies. But fine, I'm sure you won't reply again.

el rabitos wrote:

i'll add you to the red blinkers list then. everything will work out fine at liverpool. no chance of there being any major problems at the club, oh and hooray for optimism.

priceless tbh

I've said already the teams performances have been disappointing, but I've also addressed the reality that the team is picking up points where it hasn't in recent years, and all this despite playing badly.

There is plenty of cause for optimism, the team hasn't even started to play yet.

Lemlin wrote:

My point is that he shouldn't be shipping out good players because of cliques or silly reasons like that. If he had a pair of b****s like Mourinho, he'd lay down the law to his players.

If I labelled Murphy "a good player" when he was at Liverpool you are one of the people who would have challenged that no doubt. At the time Murphy was sold he wasn't playing great. He didn't play great last year. A couple of good months do not change a thing.

And it is the right thing to ship out players who are underperforming because they are not in the right mind set. Breaking cliques is sometimes necessary for the good of the team, even if it means losing a good player. Aren't Arsenal even trying to do that now?

Lemlin wrote:

Benitez doesn't seem to be able to do that. Maybe he's just too nice for the job. As for getting rid of Heskey and Owen, they've more league goals this season than any Liverpool striker!

If making an example of three players by removing them from the club before they've even kicked a ball isn't laying down the law I don't know what is.

And check your facts before posting garbage, because you are wrong.

Lemlin wrote:

And I'd put money on Owen scoring more than Crouch, Morientes and Cisse combined if he gets going at Newcastle.

I'd take your bet once you define what "gets going" is. It's almost like hedging my bets with you anyway because I'm sure if Owen "gets going" it will prolong any departure of Souness from St.James's Park.

I've no doubt that Owen is a better goalscorer than all of the above, I still don't think it was unwise of Benetiz to not pay £17M for him.

Lemlin

Originally Posted by Lemlin
My point is that he shouldn't be shipping out good players because of cliques or silly reasons like that. If he had a pair of b****s like Mourinho, he'd lay down the law to his players.

If I labelled Murphy "a good player" when he was at Liverpool you are one of the people who would have challenged that no doubt. At the time Murphy was sold he wasn't playing great. He didn't play great last year. A couple of good months do not change a thing.

And it is the right thing to ship out players who are underperforming because they are not in the right mind set. Breaking cliques is sometimes necessary for the good of the team, even if it means losing a good player. Aren't Arsenal even trying to do that now?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemlin
Benitez doesn't seem to be able to do that. Maybe he's just too nice for the job. As for getting rid of Heskey and Owen, they've more league goals this season than any Liverpool striker!

If making an example of three players by removing them from the club before they've even kicked a ball isn't laying down the law I don't know what is.

And check your facts before posting garbage, because you are wrong.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemlin
And I'd put money on Owen scoring more than Crouch, Morientes and Cisse combined if he gets going at Newcastle.

I'd take your bet once you define what "gets going" is. It's almost like hedging my bets with you anyway because I'm sure if Owen "gets going" it will prolong any departure of Souness from St.James's Park.

I've no doubt that Owen is a better goalscorer than all of the above, I still don't think it was unwise of Benetiz to not pay £17M for him.

I'd love to read your post but I stopped after the whole debacle about "Graeme Souness' decade of success". You really could never top that one

Jivin Turkey

Lemlin wrote:

I'd love to read your post but I stopped after the whole debacle about "Graeme Souness' decade of success". You really could never top that one

That's grand, though you never were able to discredit anything I said on that thread.

I will however continue to read your posts. I get a laugh out of reading your claims with no substance and the inaccurate stats that you always post.

Lemlin

Jivin Turkey wrote:

That's grand, though you never were able to discredit anything I said on that thread.

I will however continue to read your posts. I get a laugh out of reading your claims with no substance and the inaccurate stats that you always post.

Your first point is a matter of opinion. I was just one of a number of people who tried to disagree with your appreciation of Souness. That you were unwilling to listen, even with all the proof we posted, is testament to yourself and your beliefs.

As for my statistic, Owen has 2 (despite misisng the first few games of the season) and Heskey has 2, that's 4 between them. 2 more than Crouch, Morientes and Cisse have managed between them.

Read away. Glad I entertain you. That quote of yours was that good I was ready to put it on my signature.

What surprises me more is that you're a Liverpool supporter. Most 'Pool supporters I know credit Souness with being the beginning of the end.

galwaydude

souness was a nob and did nothing as manager of liverpool, won the FA cup but that was about it.

Lemlin i would rather be in our position then blackburns as i see you argueing again with liverpool fans.Surprise surprise!!! This thread has gone off topic, its supposed to about rafa reading the riot act to liverpool not constant slagging our strikers from certain board members who always seem to comment about Liverpool even though they are a blackburne fan and has nothing to do with liverpool. The way its going the soccer forum will go balls up again with all the slagging and stupid threads.

Lads its easy to pick apart liverpool nowadays after all the success we have had but im first to admit we are in a rut now and there doesnt seem to be light at the end of the tunnel. But rafa will get it right eventually.

Rafa said he messed up not buying a CB and a RW in the summer(Damn figo messed us around).

Lemlin

galwaydude wrote:

souness was a nob and did nothing as manager of liverpool, won the FA cup but that was about it.

Lemlin i would rather be in our position then blackburns as i see you argueing again with liverpool fans.Surprise surprise!!! This thread has gone off topic, its supposed to about rafa reading the riot act to liverpool not constant slagging our strikers from certain board members who always seem to comment about Liverpool even though they are a blackburne fan and has nothing to do with liverpool. The way its going the soccer forum will go balls up again with all the slagging and stupid threads.

Lads its easy to pick apart liverpool nowadays after all the success we have had but im first to admit we are in a rut now and there doesnt seem to be light at the end of the tunnel. But rafa will get it right eventually.

Rafa said he messed up not buying a CB and a RW in the summer(Damn figo messed us around).

I agree with your opinion of Souness.

As for giving my opinion, both myself and TheMonster asked Liverpool fans for their opinions on statistics we had seen (The Monster's was that Liverpool had failed to beat alot of teams and mine was what did Liverpool fans think of the sale of Danny Murphy).

I then gave my opinion that Benitez lacks the b**** that Mourinho has to law down the law to his players. Suddenly Jivin Turkey jumps in and all hell breaks loose.

I'm entitled to give my opinion on any team in the PL because I watch it, whether I support that team or not. I'm not sure what the deal is with Liverpool supporters. Arsenal or Man Utd supporters have never had a problem with supporters of other teams giving their opinions so why should Liverpool's? Maybe its a "them" against "us" mentality or something.

On that subject though, it is easy to see that there is a large majority of Liverpool fans on this board and it is almost impossible to avoid the Liverpool-related threads.

Regarding the rut, I don't think its just Liverpool that are in a rut. Man Utd and Arsenal most definitely are too. Watching yesterday's game, Spurs should of had Arsenal torn apart by the time of the equaliser, which only came for an uncharacteristic fumble by Paul Robinson. That said, every goalkeeper seemed to be making some sort of fumble yesterday.

Take it

Jivin Turkey wrote:

What is your point here apart from blatant trolling?

What is the form required for a team aiming for top four? Bear in mind Spurs have only won 11 league games this calendar year (Liverpool have ten now), Charlton only have nine, Everton have seven, and Newcastle have seven.

I've said it to you before, and do a search of your own posts to prove it to you, about 60% of all your posts on this forum are anti-Liverpool stuff. Most of them little one liners offering zero insight. Why have such a chip on your shoulder against a team that can be so poor?

I agree, and i even think with 60% you are being generous TheMonster loves dishing out useless information once he thinks it offends Liverpool fans, and in reply to Monster i would like to know why he talks like this about Liverpool who in there last 6 games have only got 8 points! but guess what other team has only got 8 points from there last 6 games, yes u guessed it you're beloved Man U so before you go trolling on about Liverpool and how bad they are make sure you know what you talking about!

galwaydude

Lemlin the reason why its like an us verses them attitude is because liverpool gets alot of stick lately and always have. Liverpool fans are passionate to say the least.I have been a liverpool supported for 18 years now so not exactly a blowin.

I suppose if we played like liverpool did when roy evans managed them ppl would be happy but what did he win, sweet FA. They played well and were very exciting but won nothing.The current liverpool team won the European cup last may playing like an italian side but still some ppl are never happy.

On another note it was good to see moro play well in the second half yesterday, hopefully he will come good. Cisse on the other hand was terrible yet again.

Lemlin

galwaydude wrote:

Lemlin the reason why its like an us verses them attitude is because liverpool gets alot of stick lately and always have. Liverpool fans are passionate to say the least.I have been a liverpool supported for 18 years now so not exactly a blowin.

I suppose if we played like liverpool did when roy evans managed them ppl would be happy but what did he win, sweet FA. They played well and were very exciting but won nothing.The current liverpool team won the European cup last may playing like an italian side but still some ppl are never happy.

On another note it was good to see moro play well in the second half yesterday, hopefully he will come good. Cisse on the other hand was terrible yet again.

Why is it okay though for you to say that Cisse is dreadful but supporters of other teams cannot?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Supporters of other teams can and often do. As do supporters of liverpool.

The difference is that LIverpool fans can see the good in him aswell, which is there for all to see, he is very fast, and can hit the ball very hard and when he does both at the same time he is lethal as was proven in France. Whereas you just say he is rubbish end of story. You do not enter into discussion just say this is what I am saying and since I am right there is no bother in anybody else disagreeing with you. Then you go on ad infintum until everybody gets bored and you think "WH00T I R TEH WINN0R"

13 hundred posts in 7 months is somewhat testament to that.

Concentrate on what is going on at Blackburn, surely you cannot be as blind to their flaws as you are to liverpools good points.

Lemlin

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Supporters of other teams can and often do. As do supporters of liverpool.

The difference is that LIverpool fans can see the good in him aswell, which is there for all to see, he is very fast, and can hit the ball very hard and when he does both at the same time he is lethal as was proven in France. Whereas you just say he is rubbish end of story. You do not enter into discussion just say this is what I am saying and since I am right there is no bother in anybody else disagreeing with you. Then you go on ad infintum until everybody gets bored and you think "WH00T I R TEH WINN0R"

13 hundred posts in 7 months is somewhat testament to that.

Concentrate on what is going on at Blackburn, surely you cannot be as blind to their flaws as you are to liverpools good points.

Yet another opinion which says 'worry about your own team, not ours'. Fact is I have an opinion of every team in the PL, as I'm sure many people do. You gave an opinion on Blackburn's Lucas Neill this morning. I replied by arguing in Blackburn's favour. At no point, did I turn around and say something like that your opinion did not count because you don't support them or that you should worry about Liverpool's defence, not Blackburn's.

Nor did you hear United supporters turning round and telling you to worry about Benitez when you started a thread about SAF. Maybe this is just a Liverpool phenomenon.

I can see good in Cisse too but not 15 million or so worth of good. I also can't see 7 million worth of good in Crouch. I'm sure many people agree. I'm sure I'll hear just as many people complaining about Craig Bellamy at Blackburn if he doesn't prove himself.

I always make a point of backing up any points I make and, I assure you, I'm not the only one who argues ad infitnitum until blue in the face.

As for the 13,000 posts, alot of them weren't made on the soccer forum, most on the GAA and the only thing its testament too is how bored I am at the weekend in work and was during the Summer at work.