Rafa Reads Riot Act to Reds*

Thanx 4 The Fish · 30-10-2005 1:34pm

Lemlin wrote:

Fact is I have an opinion of every team in the PL, as I'm sure many people do.

The unfortunate fact of the matter though, is that your opinions are not even merely balanced. That is what is probably the most annoying thing.

That is the first time you have said you can see good in Cisse, not one of Rafas buys by the way, in numerous posts slagging him and the team off. I was at Anfield yesterday and I can tell you nobody was more frustrated with the lad than I was however he did make some excellent runs, made some nice passes and was close on a couple of occasions that the 3 minutes that the liverpool game on MOTD did not really show.

At least the team responded to the bollicking that Rafa gave them I suppose, as far as I cam concerned that shows that they respect him, he does not have to throw his toys out of the pram every time something does not go his way, he just gets on with it. And the team seem to be responding to it, hopefully we can string a few results together now, I have a feeling we will hump Anderlecht (keep an eye out for me, will be on the left hand side of the Kop at the corner flag, three rows back) the only question is will we be able to have a decent game in the prem following it.

Lemlin · 30-10-2005 2:17pm

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

The unfortunate fact of the matter though, is that your opinions are not even merely balanced. That is what is probably the most annoying thing.

That is the first time you have said you can see good in Cisse, not one of Rafas buys by the way, in numerous posts slagging him and the team off. I was at Anfield yesterday and I can tell you nobody was more frustrated with the lad than I was however he did make some excellent runs, made some nice passes and was close on a couple of occasions that the 3 minutes that the liverpool game on MOTD did not really show.

At least the team responded to the bollicking that Rafa gave them I suppose, as far as I cam concerned that shows that they respect him, he does not have to throw his toys out of the pram every time something does not go his way, he just gets on with it. And the team seem to be responding to it, hopefully we can string a few results together now, I have a feeling we will hump Anderlecht (keep an eye out for me, will be on the left hand side of the Kop at the corner flag, three rows back) the only question is will we be able to have a decent game in the prem following it.

I have plenty of friends who are 'Pool supporters and even the most hardened ones (who paid €1000+ for a trip to Turkey), admit that they like Rafa but they're not exactly sure what he's up to.

His work in the transfer market has been hit and miss. Players like Alonso are top class but then you have others like Josemi. The bottom line is that I don't think he'll deliver success for Liverpool.

Cisse is good but he's Portsmouth good. He's definitely not Liverpool good. People talk about Drogba being a donkey but he's done alot more for Chelsea than Cisse has ever done for Liverpool.

As for my arguments being balanced, like I said, I've always presented evidence to back up my points. Whether or not its balanced evidence is up to yourself. For example, I say Liverpool are boring. I'm not the only person on this board who has said that or am I the only football supporter who thinks it.

redspider · 30-10-2005 3:01pm

I watched the game live and in full on RTE and watched some of the highlights again on MOTD. Liverpool get a result, at last, but no more than a result. The faults within the team, as pointed out on numerous occasions, remain, and whilst there were some improvements by some players, Liverpool’s victory was made all the more easier by a West Ham display that was well below what they have been doing so far.

In a previous post I categorised the players usefulness as follows:
Good enough: (any goalie), Finnan, Carragher, Riise, Warnock, Gerrard, Alonso
ok: Hamann, Cisse, Pongolle
barely ok to fill a gap: Sissoko, Traore, Garcia, Josemi
Not good enough: Crouch, Morientes, Hyppia, Kewell

The team lined out in a 4-4-2 with Gerrard being asked to play wide at times and Garcia:

Reina

Finnan – Hyppia – Carragher – Riise
Gerrard – Sissoko – Alonso – Garcia

Cisse – Morientes ----

This was clearly a stronger selection and formation than what Benitez has “thrown on” in previous matches. There is clear correlation between this team and the better players I have identified, and which many of you may agree with. Is Benitez learning from his mistakes? Time will tell, but for me it was encouraging to see that he only brought on Crouch for 3 mins. A token gesture at best.

Reina - did ok but had very little trouble but once again showed uncertainty and was uncomfortable for a couple of crosses.

Finnan – was very good, very dependable, and got up a couple of times to deliver in quality crosses

Hyypia – his slowness nearly let them in a few times, he got away with it in this match, but is a disaster waiting to happen. If I was Benitez I would stick in any other defender in the back who has some pace, such as Warnock perhaps or Josemi. But Hyypa is still strong aerially and Zak Whitbread was weak-ish in the B Cup.

Carragher – did most things right but for his standards he didn’t make any brilliant last ditch tackles, he didn’t miss anything, but perhaps overall, West Ham didn’t stretch him enough. Briliant all the same.

Riise – did his left back job well enough and got up and down well on the flank, without leaving Liverpool over-exposed (ie: Hyppia covering). Benitez was smart by moving Carr over to the left CB. I did note that he moved them back to the other way around for the 2nd half (ie: Hyppia LCB and Carra RCB, their favoured and more comfortable positions).

Gerrard – did an ok job, but many of the things he tried didn’t come off. If anything he tried to bring the other players into it too much, as in Morientes and Cisse and probably should have on many occasions taken an extra touch and gone for a shot himself. Not one of his better games, but as his capability is much higher than most of the others, he still was better, if you catch my drift.

Sissoko – he had one of his poorer games I thought, definitely a standard not up to what we need. Just like Traore’s poor days. If Hamann was 3 years younger he should get a place before Sissoko. Once Gonzalez comes on board, if he performs according to what he’s cracked up to be, Sissoko will be a sub and Gerrard will be moved back to the centre of the park.

Alonso – well, what can I say about this guy. Brilliance, both tackling and creatively. He had a fantastic game and if there is one thing I am grateful to Benitez about apart from winning the CL, and that’s bringing Alonso to Liverpool. We need him though. He can improve his shooting, I realise he got the goal, as he definitely has enough skill to be popping in driving goals as regularly as Frank Lampard.

Garcia – he definitely had one of his better games. He was doing his usual drifting and losing the ball, but he did a lot more creatively, got around a few players, yes, he was beating the opposition and making things difficult for West Ham. And he got in some good telling shots. Try as he might through he couldn’t get much inter-linking play with Morientes nor Cisse. But who can really? He definitely went up a few points on my rating scale after this performance. He had some good performances last season, but if he wants to stay at Liverpool and get into the 1st eleven on merit, then he needs to keep this up, improve on it but really keep consistently better.

Cisse – well, I guess you could say he played his own game. He was his usual self, fast, quick, direct. He shot when he could, quickly and from wherever. Morientes and himself cant play together. I think any player would find it hard to play with Cisse. He lacks close ball control. But he is quick. He was causing West Ham difficulties, much more so than Morientes, and probably much more so than Crouch.

Morientes – I feel sorry for him. He’s like a gunfighter who is now at a stage where he is the slowest draw. His reactions are slow, his mind is slow, and although he has some neat touches, and ball control, at this level, he is just not at the races. His finishing, if anything could redeem him and warrant a place in the team, alas has also left him. He had a clear header, which he tamely failed to direct home from very close range. His linkage play was every poor, Gerrard would give him the ball, he would lose it. Himself and Cisse are like chalk and Cheese and this partnership will never work.

Subs
Zenden – did ok, having Riise behind him, didn’t have to do much for the goal, the ball broke to him kindly and he shot, and it went in, just as much a surprise to Liverpool who had seen chance after chance go a-begging in the 2nd half without reward, only for Zenden to get it from long-range. I wouldn’t expect to see him score many like this week-in week-out.

Overall, a win is a win, 3 pts, Liverpool now on 13 pts with 9 games played, which fares ok when compared with Man U (18 pts, 10 games) and Arsenal (17 pts, 10 games). It may be a crisis of sorts at Liverpool, and last week I didn’t have the time to join the lively discussion that was/is taking place on what to do with Liverpool, etc, but from 2nd place down, the league is fairly open. I think we can all forget about Chelsea, no team needs to compare to them anymore as financially and now on the field, they are playing in a different league altogether.

The ladder attached makes interesting viewing. It shows the played-10 status, although Liverpool have only played 9. I will update it after the next match. Even though high-flying Wigan are on 22 pts, they have a much more difficult quarter coming up with games against all the other big teams (Chelsea, Man U, Arsenal and Liverpool), so this peak may be a statistical anomaly due to the order of fixtures. There is a long way to go, but if Benitez sticks with 4-4-2, and we keep getting results like this, the race to 4th is very much back on the cards.

redspider

Jivin Turkey · 30-10-2005 4:25pm

Lemlin wrote:

Your first point is a matter of opinion. I was just one of a number of people who tried to disagree with your appreciation of Souness. That you were unwilling to listen, even with all the proof we posted, is testament to yourself and your beliefs.

Very few people actually posted anything in disagreement. There were a few attempts at humour and a post or two of "Souness is a muppet", but nothing to discredit anything I said.

Your main argument was that he wrecked Blackburn, after taking them from mid-table Div 1 to Europe, and I suppose even if your opinion is wrong, you are still entitled to it.

Lemlin wrote:

As for my statistic, Owen has 2 (despite misisng the first few games of the season) and Heskey has 2, that's 4 between them. 2 more than Crouch, Morientes and Cisse have managed between them.

No you said "As for getting rid of Heskey and Owen, they've more league goals this season than any Liverpool striker!" Which to me means that individually they have scored more. You used Liverpool striker in the singular which would indicate this.

Now you could also interpret what you said as Owen AND Heskey (together) have scored more than any Liverpool striker (individually). And if your intention was to illustrate that two strikers had scored more than one of Liverpools, I'd like to congratulate you Sherlock. The always did say two was better than one.

Lemlin wrote:

Read away. Glad I entertain you. That quote of yours was that good I was ready to put it on my signature.

What quote in your sig? I will read your posts, I enjoy replying to non-Liverpool fans re Liverpool issues, sometimes you have to sift through troll-merchants and lads with chips on their shoulders but it's very interesting when you can find someone that can give an honest and impartial appraisal on matters Liverpool.

Lemlin wrote:

What surprises me more is that you're a Liverpool supporter. Most 'Pool supporters I know credit Souness with being the beginning of the end.

Why?

You see I think this goes back to the impartiality I just spoke of. I said myself in my assessment of Souness's career that he didn't do a great job at Liverpool. But when assessing his entire career (or any other matter IMO) I'm prepared to take a step back and view it without bias, hence my conclusion wasn't "Souness is a ****ing gimp, absolute joke, never did anything moron".

Maybe you should try it sometime.

Jivin Turkey · 30-10-2005 4:36pm

And on a sidenote, yesterdays result at the Riverside show that it was a good one for the Pool when they went there. Boro have now taken three points off both United and Arsenal. Also bear in mind that Liverpool were robbed a clear one on one opportunity in the closing stages by a cynical tackle which led to the sending off.

Lemlin · 30-10-2005 5:51pm

Very few people actually posted anything in disagreement. There were a few attempts at humour and a post or two of "Souness is a muppet", but nothing to discredit anything I said.

Your main argument was that he wrecked Blackburn, after taking them from mid-table Div 1 to Europe, and I suppose even if your opinion is wrong, you are still entitled to it.

There you go again. People have argued that I always think I am right. You just have to say stuff like "I suppose even if your opinion is wrong, you are still entitled to it". Well fine then, of course you're correct. Graeme Souness is the best bloody manager ever. I'd say United will be after him when SAF goes (maybe that'll shut you up).

No you said "As for getting rid of Heskey and Owen, they've more league goals this season than any Liverpool striker!" Which to me means that individually they have scored more. You used Liverpool striker in the singular which would indicate this.

Now you could also interpret what you said as Owen AND Heskey (together) have scored more than any Liverpool striker (individually). And if your intention was to illustrate that two strikers had scored more than one of Liverpools, I'd like to congratulate you Sherlock. The always did say two was better than one.

Nope, my illustration was that Cisse is the only Liverpool striker to have scored out of the three I mentioned. We can use your question though. Liverpool have used four strikers this year: Pongelle, Cisse, Morientes and Crouch. Only one has scored, Cisse twice. Owen and Heskey have four between them. That means that four aren't as good as two - problems with your equation that two should be better than one there.

What quote in your sig? I will read your posts, I enjoy replying to non-Liverpool fans re Liverpool issues, sometimes you have to sift through troll-merchants and lads with chips on their shoulders but it's very interesting when you can find someone that can give an honest and impartial appraisal on matters Liverpool.

The quote that Souness had a "decade of success". I can honestly say you're the only person I think will ever describe his career as that.

I believe my view of Liverpool is impartial. I've always said that they have good players like Alsonso, Gerrard and Carragher but they are weighed down by poor players like Traore and Josemi. That said, they have a dreadful habit of losing to teams whom they should easily beat eg. Fulham or Crystal Palace. Even with the poor players mentioned, they should be fit to beat Fulham and I think the blame has to rest with the management at this point.

Especially with the players he's signed. Of Crouch, Morientes and Cisse, I think Morientes is the only one who has the genuine ability that 'Pool need. I'm not sure what's wrong with him at the minute but if he did recapture some of his form he could be great.

I also don't see how people can say stuff like that Garcia is a European player and doesn't perform in the PL. The Chelsea lads don't seem to have any problems performing in both. Or most of the Liverpool team for that matter.

Liverpool were linked with Mourinho when he left Porto and I honestly believe that if he'd gone to them they'd be in a far better position than they are under Benitez. Yes, he won the CL and has to be commended for that but I don't think he's in the same league as Mourinho when it comes to managerial skill and know-how.

Why?

You see I think this goes back to the impartiality I just spoke of. I said myself in my assessment of Souness's career that he didn't do a great job at Liverpool. But when assessing his entire career (or any other matter IMO) I'm prepared to take a step back and view it without bias, hence my conclusion wasn't "Souness is a ****ing gimp, absolute joke, never did anything moron".

Maybe you should try it sometime.

Maybe you should try listenting to other people's opinions sometimes.

ButcherOfNog · 30-10-2005 6:12pm

Lemlin wrote:

Especially with the players he's signed. Of Crouch, Morientes and Cisse, I think Morientes is the only one who has the genuine ability that 'Pool need.

If you actually knew what you were talking about, this thread would be worthwhile. To say that Benitez signed Cisse is to say you ain't got a clue what you're talking about. Lets see where everyone ends up at the end of the season.

Lemlin · 30-10-2005 6:14pm

ButcherOfNog wrote:

If you actually knew what you were talking about, this thread would be worthwhile. To say that Benitez signed Cisse is to say you ain't got a clue what you're talking about. Lets see where everyone ends up at the end of the season.

Sorry, I forgot Cisse was prearranged. Benitez did say several times that Cisse was a player he had looked at signing anyway. And even then, it still doesn't change the fact that he turned down Owen, who's scored again today, in favour of keeping Cisse and signing Crouch.

galwaydude · 30-10-2005 6:18pm

thats incorrect.Liverpool decided that spending 17 million on owen was better served elsewhere. As the previous poster said lets see how we both end up at the end of the season.

Jivin Turkey · 31-10-2005 3:06pm

Lemlin wrote:

There you go again. People have argued that I always think I am right. You just have to say stuff like "I suppose even if your opinion is wrong, you are still entitled to it". Well fine then, of course you're correct. Graeme Souness is the best bloody manager ever. I'd say United will be after him when SAF goes (maybe that'll shut you up).

No, Graeme Souness is not the best manager ever, that's another example of you having an opinion and it being wrong (but you are still entitled to it by the way).

Lemlin wrote:

Nope, my illustration was that Cisse is the only Liverpool striker to have scored out of the three I mentioned.

That's not what you said, go back and read it if you want, I've quoted you too. You said that no Liverpool striker had scored as much as Heskey or Owen in the league, that is wrong (or was at the time).

Lemlin wrote:

The quote that Souness had a "decade of success". I can honestly say you're the only person I think will ever describe his career as that.

Well maybe I'm the only one that you ever really heard giving a totally impartial view on it. A couple of league titles, a bagful of cups, a few top two finishes, a few top six finishes, a save from relegation across a number of different types of clubs is what I would deem a reasonably successful career.

This thread isn't about Souness though, if you want to discuss him resurrect the old one, I'll happily oblige, particularly since your assertion that Newcastle would get relegated and he would be sacked by January doesn't seem likely to materialise.

Lemlin wrote:

Liverpool were linked with Mourinho when he left Porto and I honestly believe that if he'd gone to them they'd be in a far better position than they are under Benitez. Yes, he won the CL and has to be commended for that but I don't think he's in the same league as Mourinho when it comes to managerial skill and know-how.

I love lines like "Yes he won the CL" after an attempt to dismiss the ability of Benetiz. You'll give him that will you? That was nice of you. I suppose all he did was win the biggest trophy in club football in his first season at a club in disarray.

To say that Benetiz is not in the same league as Mourinho is complete and utter nonsense. Again, one of your opinions that is wrong.

I'm not saying either is better for sure, but considering their honours in the managerial game are similar (all be it that Benetiz's came in a far superior league with a far less fashionable team relatively, and also that he didn't have monopoly money to throw around when he came to England) it is incorrect to say they are different leagues.

Plymouth Argyle and Chelsea are in different leagues, are you drawing a similar comparison between Mourinho and Benetiz?

Lemlin wrote:

Maybe you should try listenting to other people's opinions sometimes.

I listen to everyones opinion, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everyones.

Lemlin · 31-10-2005 4:14pm

No, Graeme Souness is not the best manager ever, that's another example of you having an opinion and it being wrong (but you are still entitled to it by the way).

That's called sarcasm. I suggest you watch one of the Father Ted episodes with Bishop Len for the best understanding of it.

:

Well maybe I'm the only one that you ever really heard giving a totally impartial view on it. A couple of league titles, a bagful of cups, a few top two finishes, a few top six finishes, a save from relegation across a number of different types of clubs is what I would deem a reasonably successful career.

This thread isn't about Souness though, if you want to discuss him resurrect the old one, I'll happily oblige, particularly since your assertion that Newcastle would get relegated and he would be sacked by January doesn't seem likely to materialise.

Its gone from a "decade of success" to what you would deem "reasonably successful". Someone regretting one of their statements?

I never said Newcastle would be relegated, I said they could be. As for January, I still think he'll be gone soon because he won't deliver the success they need. They beat West Brom yesterday. Whoop-de-woo, Newcastle should be expecting to beat alot better than them.

I love lines like "Yes he won the CL" after an attempt to dismiss the ability of Benetiz. You'll give him that will you? That was nice of you. I suppose all he did was win the biggest trophy in club football in his first season at a club in disarray.

To say that Benetiz is not in the same league as Mourinho is complete and utter nonsense. Again, one of your opinions that is wrong.

I'm not saying either is better for sure, but considering their honours in the managerial game are similar (all be it that Benetiz's came in a far superior league with a far less fashionable team relatively, and also that he didn't have monopoly money to throw around when he came to England) it is incorrect to say they are different leagues.

Plymouth Argyle and Chelsea are in different leagues, are you drawing a similar comparison between Mourinho and Benetiz?

Yes, I'll give him winning the CL. I had better or, as pointed out by numerous other people on this board on numerous occasions, it'll be the first thing that Liverpool supporters mention.

Btw, you can't just dismiss my opinion as wrong. Its wrong in your opinion. It may be right in other people's. I'd see that as nothing more than ignorance on your part. Straight away, you totally dismiss the opinion of others because it isn't your own.

As for winning the Champions League, IMO Mourinho did it as a far better feat with Porto. They're a much smaller club than Liverpool and he won the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League and, unlike Benitez, coupled it with domestic success.

People may argue that he doesn't have skill as a manger because of the money he gets at Chelsea but they seem to forget his accomplishments at Porto, where he did not have that cash.

Yes, in my mind, that would be a fair assessment. I think over the coming seasons that will be shown. Liverpool were lucky in the CL semi-final last year and that was shown a few weeks ago with the 4-1 drubbing. Mourinho will show that he is a much better manager than Benitez in the coming years.

And here's an interesting one for you: if you could go back, can you honestly say you'd prefer to have Benitez appointed if Mourinho had offered to take the 'Pool job? You may dislike the man but think of what he could do for the club.

Truth is I find it a shocking statistic that Liverpool, once the biggest club in England and, arguably the world, have not even won a Premier League. My own team Blackburn have had more League success than them in the past 10 years.

Therefore I think that Liverpool supporters should be demanding more and not putting up with performances like that against Fulham last weekend.

thats incorrect.Liverpool decided that spending 17 million on owen was better served elsewhere. As the previous poster said lets see how we both end up at the end of the season.

No, I think it'd be a fairer assessment to look at Owen's scoring statistics when compared to the Liverpool strikers at the end of the season, not the team's positions.

In that case, Owen is winning 4-2 at the minute, and that's against all 4 of Liverpool's strikers.

p.pete · 31-10-2005 4:16pm

Can this thread be locked? it's wreckin me buzz!!!

mike65 · 31-10-2005 4:48pm

Lemlin wrote:

Truth is I find it a shocking statistic that Liverpool, once the biggest club in England and, arguably the world, have not even won a Premier League. My own team Blackburn have had more League success than them in the past 10 years.

You can of course thank Liverpool for your PL win in '95!

Jivin Turkey · 31-10-2005 6:39pm

Lemlin wrote:

That's called sarcasm. I suggest you watch one of the Father Ted episodes with Bishop Len for the best understanding of it.

Are you serious? I didn't get it. But it just goes to illustrate my point that if say this was your opinion, while you would still be entitled to it, you would be wrong.

Lemlin wrote:

Its gone from a "decade of success" to what you would deem "reasonably successful". Someone regretting one of their statements?

I never said Newcastle would be relegated, I said they could be. As for January, I still think he'll be gone soon because he won't deliver the success they need. They beat West Brom yesterday. Whoop-de-woo, Newcastle should be expecting to beat alot better than them.

Not at all, it was a successful period that spanned more than a decade, which adds up to "a decade of success". I stand by what I said. But if you want to talk about GS take it to another thread.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, I'll give him winning the CL. I had better or, as pointed out by numerous other people on this board on numerous occasions, it'll be the first thing that Liverpool supporters mention.

Of course it's the first thing a Liverpool fan will mention. It's incredibly relevant when there are the likes of yourself and TheTroll, I mean TheMonster, questioning if he is the right man for the job.

Lemlin wrote:

Btw, you can't just dismiss my opinion as wrong. Its wrong in your opinion. It may be right in other people's. I'd see that as nothing more than ignorance on your part. Straight away, you totally dismiss the opinion of others because it isn't your own.

No I dismiss your opinion as wrong when it is, not because it's not my own.

Lemlin wrote:

As for winning the Champions League, IMO Mourinho did it as a far better feat with Porto. They're a much smaller club than Liverpool and he won the UEFA Cup and then the Champions League and, unlike Benitez, coupled it with domestic success.

This is a prime example of why I think some of your opinions are wrong. "Unlike Benitez, coupled it with domestic success"? Haha. Check your facts. Then quote this and post and list how many league titles each won in Spain and Portugal respectively. I've got some eggs here which are looking for a face.

Lemlin wrote:

People may argue that he doesn't have skill as a manger because of the money he gets at Chelsea but they seem to forget his accomplishments at Porto, where he did not have that cash.

Anyone that doesn't think he has skill as a manager is wrong, even if that is their opinion

.

Lemlin wrote:

Yes, in my mind, that would be a fair assessment. I think over the coming seasons that will be shown. Liverpool were lucky in the CL semi-final last year and that was shown a few weeks ago with the 4-1 drubbing. Mourinho will show that he is a much better manager than Benitez in the coming years.

A much better manager? Your "fair assessment" ignored the Spanish league titles Benitez won against the likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona, and Deportivo, as opposed to the likes of Boavista.

Mourinho has achieved nothing in football that Benitez hasn't.

Lemlin wrote:

And here's an interesting one for you: if you could go back, can you honestly say you'd prefer to have Benitez appointed if Mourinho had offered to take the 'Pool job? You may dislike the man but think of what he could do for the club.

To be honest, I wouldn't change a thing. Benitez delivered the CL, I can't see how Mourinho would realistically have done any more. They are both brilliant managers, very little between them, and definitely not "leagues".

Lemlin wrote:

Truth is I find it a shocking statistic that Liverpool, once the biggest club in England and, arguably the world, have not even won a Premier League. My own team Blackburn have had more League success than them in the past 10 years.

I find it a more shocking statistic that they havn't won a league in 15 years. I also find it a shocking statistic that people think football didn't exist pre-Premiership.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-10-2005 7:46pm

You posted exactly the same thing as big nelly, why is that Lemlin ?

This thread can be closed but I have a funny feeling it is going to die a death anyway ?

galwaydude · 31-10-2005 7:54pm

i doubt lemlin will be back posting in liverpool thread with his false info and facts. He was found out.

Interesting that big nelly hasnt posted in this thread either

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-10-2005 8:01pm

He did but it was deleted, then followed by the exact same post from Lemlin

Lemlin · 31-10-2005 8:11pm

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

You posted exactly the same thing as big nelly, why is that Lemlin ?

This thread can be closed but I have a funny feeling it is going to die a death anyway ?

Share a computer, he hadn't logged out and I came onto the site and posted without checking. I listed that as the reason for deletion of that thread, surely you should be able to check the reason for deletion as a mod rather than ask silly questions?

No I dismiss your opinion as wrong when it is, not because it's not my own.

BUt who are you to say its wrong? Some all-knowing being that is never wrong. That's my point. You're showing unbelievable ignorance and arrogance to dismiss someone's opinion as wrong without even taking into account my argument. For example, people thinking Graeme Souness is a (insert whatever word you like here), are you of the opinion that anyone who thinks he's a (insert your word here), whatever their reason, is wrong?

This is a prime example of why I think some of your opinions are wrong. "Unlike Benitez, coupled it with domestic success"? Haha. Check your facts. Then quote this and post and list how many league titles each won in Spain and Portugal respectively. I've got some eggs here which are looking for a face.

Oh sorry, did I miss Liverpool winning the Premiership last season? That's right, they came fifth didn't they? And spent the next few weeks grovelling to be let into the CL when they shouldn't of been. Just ask the poor Spanish team, Zaragoza I think it was, who didn't get in a few years ago when Madrid won it.

I'm well aware that Benitez won the UEFA Cup and league in the same year, it was only two years ago after all. But my point is that Mourinho did that and then topped it by winning the CL and domestic league, has Benitez managed to do that? He also won the domestic cup the year they won the UEFA.

And yes, they only had the likes of Benfice and Boavista, not Real and Barcelona but was that Mourinho's fault? And I would argue his achievement is far more spectacular because he took Porto from nothing to Champions League winners. Liverpool had tasted European success not so long ago under Houllier and Benitez had alot more money to spend on players like Alonso than Mourinho ever had at Porto.

Mourinho has achieved nothing in football that Benitez hasn't.

Here's one for your comment about eggs and face: Did you miss Mourinho winning the PL last year? Both have won the Champions League, UEFA Cup and domestic league in their home countries but Benitez has yet to win a league foreign to his own, unlike Mourinho. Who'll soon have two I might add.

He has also achieved a domestic double and UEFA Cup win in the same season. Not to mention coupled domestic and Champions League success in the same season.

You can of course thank Liverpool for your PL win in '95! As for Prem history, well if you really think Blackburns record is better over the last 10 years then who am I to argue?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Prem...l_League_Table

and I won't even mention the difference in Cups...

And has finishing above Blackburn in the league each year gave Liverpool a Premier League title to their name? Four clubs have won the Premier League - Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea and, wait for it...... BLACKBURN. Where's Liverpool on that list then?

Yes, Liverpool have had more success being highly placed but I'd take Blackburn's one PL success in '95 over finishing third or fourth for a few years - whisper it quietly, but its who comes first that matters. When you read a list of PL champions in years to come, it will say "1995 - Blackburn". It won't mention Liverpool in the list.

And its West Ham we have to thank actually. Liverpool beat us on the last day.

el rabitos · 31-10-2005 8:17pm

lemlin's posts tend to rile people and his arguements are mostly useless but theres no need to have people posting together like a bunch of school girls talking about him.

Are you serious? I didn't get it. But it just goes to illustrate my point that if say this was your opinion, while you would still be entitled to it, you would be wrong.

you tell him he has an opinion, then u tell him its wrong. you have met the kettle havent you mr. pot?

I find it a more shocking statistic that they havn't won a league in 15 years. I also find it a shocking statistic that people think football didn't exist pre-Premiership.

my problem and alot of other liverpool fans problem is that over the majority of the 15 years and under benitez in the league, liverpool dont play like a team that even look like they will challenge for the title.

the problems with the way the team plays is there for all to see and over time there has not been any major improvements that have people looking at a liverpool game and say "yeah, thats a good performance all round"

people wouldnt be so critical if they thought we were a club that was improving, i know you honestly think they are improving in alot of areas, but me personally, i dont think so.

anyway. this thread went off topic a long time ago

Lemlin · 31-10-2005 8:23pm

galwaydude wrote:

i doubt lemlin will be back posting in liverpool thread with his false info and facts. He was found out.

Interesting that big nelly hasnt posted in this thread either

Nothing wrong with two brothers using the same site, is there? Btw, your answer is above.

galwaydude · 31-10-2005 8:26pm

nothing wrong with two brothers posting at all.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-10-2005 8:57pm

The reason that a "stupid question" was asked is because as you may or may not know it is not acceptable to have two profiles on boards, but since you have clarified the issue there is no problem anymore.

You are correct two brothers posting on boards is not an issue.

Lemlin · 31-10-2005 10:06pm

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

The reason that a "stupid question" was asked is because as you may or may not know it is not acceptable to have two profiles on boards, but since you have clarified the issue there is no problem anymore.

You are correct two brothers posting on boards is not an issue.

I know that indeed. Just wondering why you couldn't read the "reason for deletion" on the post rather than ask the question on-thread. That's why I wondered about your question, you have access to the information as a moderator, why not use it.

Once its all sorted though.

Thanx 4 The Fish · 31-10-2005 10:20pm

The reason, as explained on the reply to your PM you sent asking me this same question is that I read the message when you first posted it and then went away, I then came back and read it again as you and posted the question.

I just wondered why you posted as somebody else, you have access to the same computer as your brother and know where the logoff button is, why not use it.

As you say, at least it is all sorted now.

ButcherOfNog · 31-10-2005 10:32pm

Lemlin wrote:

Sorry, I forgot Cisse was prearranged.

Excellent, thank you for admitting that you are wrong, and that you don't know what you are talking about, please go back under your bridge, the rodents miss you.

Jivin Turkey · 01-11-2005 12:52am

Lemlin wrote:

Oh sorry, did I miss Liverpool winning the Premiership last season? That's right, they came fifth didn't they? And spent the next few weeks grovelling to be let into the CL when they shouldn't of been. Just ask the poor Spanish team, Zaragoza I think it was, who didn't get in a few years ago when Madrid won it.

I'm unsure as to what you mean by this given the part of my post that you quoted, but I hope you are not implying that Liverpool may have won the EPL last year under the guidance of Mourinho.

Lemlin wrote:

I'm well aware that Benitez won the UEFA Cup and league in the same year, it was only two years ago after all.

Then why claim Benitez never matched his European success with domestic success?

Lemlin wrote:

But my point is that Mourinho did that and then topped it by winning the CL and domestic league, has Benitez managed to do that? He also won the domestic cup the year they won the UEFA.

While doing the two in the same year is impressive, it's hardly an incredible achievment, or a measure of who is the better manager. It is also easier to do that too in a league as weak as the Portugese league.

Lemlin wrote:

And yes, they only had the likes of Benfice and Boavista, not Real and Barcelona but was that Mourinho's fault?

No, not Mourinho's fault but a fact that it would be stupid to ignore when comparing his domestic achievments to a man that did the same only in a better league.

Lemlin wrote:

And I would argue his achievement is far more spectacular because he took Porto from nothing to Champions League winners. Liverpool had tasted European success not so long ago under Houllier and Benitez had alot more money to spend on players like Alonso than Mourinho ever had at Porto.

Porto reached the quarters of the CL and UEFA cup, as well as reaching the old 2nd group phase of the CL in the three years prior to Mourinho's appointment. Hardly what I would call "nothing", and almost identical to Liverpool's European performances over the three years prior to Benitez's appointment.

Lemlin wrote:

Here's one for your comment about eggs and face: Did you miss Mourinho winning the PL last year? Both have won the Champions League, UEFA Cup and domestic league in their home countries but Benitez has yet to win a league foreign to his own, unlike Mourinho. Who'll soon have two I might add.

He has also achieved a domestic double and UEFA Cup win in the same season. Not to mention coupled domestic and Champions League success in the same season.

I admit, I glossed over Mourinho's title last year. Apologies. But still the only difference (of note) in their individual trophy cabinets is a single league title won by JM in England with a team assembled requiring almost £200M. As I said already, leagues apart is Plymouth VS Chelsea, are you still maintaining that JM and RB are "leagues apart"?

As I said above the timing of the trophies is not a measure of how good someone is, particularly considering domestic success is not difficult to come across in Portugal.

I've stopped replying to any Graeme Souness related things you have to say and will not respond to anymore Jose Mourinho stuff you have to say. José Mourinho is not "leagues ahead" of Rafa Benitez in terms of managerial ability, that's not my opinion, that's a fact.

Lemlin wrote:

And has finishing above Blackburn in the league each year gave Liverpool a Premier League title to their name? Four clubs have won the Premier League - Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea and, wait for it...... BLACKBURN. Where's Liverpool on that list then?

Yes, Liverpool have had more success being highly placed but I'd take Blackburn's one PL success in '95 over finishing third or fourth for a few years - whisper it quietly, but its who comes first that matters. When you read a list of PL champions in years to come, it will say "1995 - Blackburn". It won't mention Liverpool in the list.

And its West Ham we have to thank actually. Liverpool beat us on the last day.

Total troll stuff. You do know there was football pre-1992?

Jivin Turkey · 01-11-2005 1:00am

el rabitos wrote:

people wouldnt be so critical if they thought we were a club that was improving, i know you honestly think they are improving in alot of areas, but me personally, i dont think so.

The team is playing badly and they are still getting results. Good results at tough grounds. United joined Arsenal this weekend at getting beaten there. Liverpool may well have won if it weren't for the calculated foul leading to the sending off.

Every game Liverpool have is well winnable. Whether it is won or not will be another matter, but I've a feeling Liverpool will be looking far further down the table than they will be up it come the new year.

Then the fourth place which that was apparently unattainable a few days ago won't be such a dream.

el rabitos · 01-11-2005 1:35am

The team is playing badly and they are still getting results. Good results at tough grounds. United joined Arsenal this weekend at getting beaten there. Liverpool may well have won if it weren't for the calculated foul leading to the sending off.

Every game Liverpool have is well winnable. Whether it is won or not will be another matter, but I've a feeling Liverpool will be looking far further down the table than they will be up it come the new year

look at it from this perspective. if liverpool where winning matches week in, week out or drawing away against teams like boro. THEN playing badly against the likes of west ham and "getting a result" i would consider the mark of a good team.

liverpool just got a result. thats all it was, another pretty average performance, only this time we got a result.

football can be broken down into a really simplistic form - you have the ball and the other team cant score.......now, if you were to watch liverpool play football, you'd think the players where never told that keeping the ball is an important part of scoring a goal.

and i'm not just talking about garcia here. so often the ball is just given away and u see gerrard or cisse just put their hands on their hips and stand there!!

i'm talking about the BASICS here, when a team keeps the ball well, and hounds the oppostion when not in possession, THEN you can start looking at what the other problems are like formation and tactics.

what i dont see and a hell of alot of other, including the cynical fools on the rte panel see, is that liverpool dont seem to have a grasp on the fundementals!

trust me, chelsea DONT have the best team in the premiership. they just have the best managed team, from boardroom to the dressing room. and when players do the basics right. you'd be suprised how often they dont concede goals

Then the fourth place which that was apparently unattainable a few days ago won't be such a dream

i dont know who was saying 4th wasnt unatainable, it wasnt me. all i wanted this season was liverpool finish 3rd, or 4th comfortably.

i'm not saying anything about rafa benitez until he has a more balanced squad. because this team is balanced like a see-saw

Big Nelly · 01-11-2005 10:10am

galwaydude wrote:

Interesting that big nelly hasnt posted in this thread either

Why would I bother? already had a few arguements on Liverpool in here!! its pointless!!! no matter how good an opinion is its always the same replies!! "5 times" or "you know nothing"........everyone on here has seen the treatment I got beforehand so I have and won't bother posting about Liverpool for a while because it ain't worth the hassle!! :eek:

Lemlin I suggest you do the same!!!!

p.pete · 01-11-2005 11:37am

Big Nelly wrote:

so I have and won't bother posting about Liverpool for a while because it ain't worth the hassle!! :eek:

Thankyou baby Jebus!

Big Nelly · 01-11-2005 12:17pm

p.pete wrote:

Thankyou baby Jebus!

Nothing to be happy about if Liverpool supporters try to bully everyone off boards that don't think Liverpool are great!! its called free speech or free typing as such!:D

p.pete · 01-11-2005 12:48pm

Big Nelly wrote:

Nothing to be happy about if Liverpool supporters try to bully everyone off boards that don't think Liverpool are great!! its called free speech or free typing as such!:D

yes, that's exactly what it is - I'll miss you though

<edit>

Good luck to Reading tonight - I'll be at the Madejski

Big Nelly · 01-11-2005 12:57pm

p.pete wrote:

yes, that's exactly what it is - I'll miss you though

<edit>

Good luck to Reading tonight - I'll be at the Madejski

Ahh dont be getting me emotional now!! will be in tears!

You going to watch them getting a good trashing from the Mighty Wednesday??? serious thou I will be hoping for a draw! keep us moving in the right direction!!

p.pete · 01-11-2005 1:05pm

Big Nelly wrote:

Ahh dont be getting me emotional now!! will be in tears!

You going to watch them getting a good trashing from the Mighty Wednesday??? serious thou I will be hoping for a draw! keep us moving in the right direction!!

Nah, there's an all-weather training pitch beside the stadium, will be playing footy with the lads from work

Rafa Reads Riot Act to Reds*

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