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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)
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Scofflaw
So you are able to distinguish between evolution and abiogenesis. Interesting. You're correct - evolution doesn't explain the origin of living systems, but it doesn't attempt to. I don't deny for a moment that we don't know how abiogenesis happened, and you are entirely welcome to insert your preferred mechanism - evolution, however, is a proven mechanism.
OK so you accept that Abiogenesis NEVER happened......
Equally, Evolution doesn’t explain the development of complex life forms from simple organisms EITHER……and that IS also my point!!!:D
Originally Posted by J C
EVOLUTON is like a child in a flight simulator randomly 'throwing the switches' to see what happens.......but the simulator could NEVER be built by similar random processes…….and NEITHER could the child or it’s genome, be 'built' using random frame-shifts......even in tandem with a selection mechanism.
Scofflaw
You're unable to come up with an analogy that doesn't involve a single pre-specified purpose. Unfortunately, that is not a flaw in evolution, but in your analogies.
The ESSENTIAL characteristic of BOTH Flight Simulators AND living organisms is that they FUNCTION.
……and the problem with mutations is that they degrade or eliminate FUNCTION!!!!
In the case of the 'Knicker Eating Bug' it has ‘gained’ an imperfect ability to partially 'eat' old knickers AT THE LOSS of the function originally controlled by the sequence that was altered by the frame shift…..
It is analogous to a broken toy robot which walks imperfectly backwards when the broken ‘forwards’ button is pressed. Please note that this ‘new’ ability is imperfect ……and the original ‘perfect’ ability to walk forwards is LOST!!!
…….any more breakages and it could ‘pack up’ completely.
The broken ‘forwards’ switch DOESN’T result in new information………..it does produce a ‘new’ imperfect ‘backwards’ movement that could conceviably be ‘useful’ to the Robot……but because it is the result of DAMAGE to the robot any further damage will likely result in NO movement by the robot!!!:eek:
Scofflaw
If you remember, this is a frameshift mutation. That means that one base pair has been added into the DNA, so that all the subsequent triplets are read differently:
TTT-GGG-CCC-TTT-AAA
could go to:
TTT-AGG-GCC-CTT-TAA
as the result of the insertion of the extra A(denosine) there. The A is entirely new, and has the knock-on effect of changing the reading of all the subsequent triplets. In this case, the new reading produces a novel enzyme that digests nylon - not very efficiently, it's true, but given the amount of nylon (tights and knickers, as you so elegantly put it) in the world, and the lack of other things digesting it, it's pretty useful - new information (the A) in the genome leading to a new enzyme.
The 'Knicker Eating Bug' has ‘gained’ an IMPERFECT ability to partially 'eat' old knickers AT THE LOSS of the PERFECT function originally controlled by the sequence that was altered by the frame shift!!!!:eek:
It is like the Robot with the BROKEN ‘forwards’ switch…….or a busted car wiper switch that now turns on the brake lights .......i.e. it is something that can happen to complex perfect systems that have become DAMAGED......but this ISN'T a mechanism that could produce the enormous levels of perfect, tightly specified information in living organisms (or Robots), in the first place!!!!!:D
For that you require the appliance of INTELLIGENCE.....
......as Dr Stephen C Meyer, Director of The Discovery Institute Centre for Science & Culture, has so eloquently pointed out, in the peer reviewed Proceedings of the Biological Society of Washington Vol 117 no 2 pp 213-219 2004 :-
“Rational agents can constrain combinatorial space with distant outcomes in mind. The causal powers that natural selection lacks – almost by definition – are associated with the attributes of consciousness and rationality – with purposeful intelligence……….
For this reason, recent scientific interest in the design hypothesis is unlikely to abate as biologists continue to wrestle with the problem of the origination of biological form and the higher taxa.”
Scofflaw
Sadly, all of that is clearly so much rubbish, because we can, have, and are presenting you with a very straightforward example of a mutation producing a new enzyme. So all this stuff about "combinatorial space" is just pseudo-mathematical smokescreen.
Sadly for Evolution, the useless ‘combinatorial space’ IS literally ASTRONOMICAL!!!:D
…..but the real ‘killer’ for Evolution is the fact that even if we accept, for the sake of argument that ALL sequences COULD potentially produce a 'functional protein', it would be impossible for an undirected system to 'discover' for example, a 'functional protein' for blood clotting where and when it needed it, because by definition nearly 1E +180 of the protein sequences 'out there' are in the 'useless combinatorial space' for blood clotting - so 'finding' the ACTUAL proten sequence to incorporate into the blood clotting cascade would defeat any 'blind' system like Macro-Evolution.
It would be like a spare parts company, randomly searching it's enormous warehouse of 1E+180 spare parts for a particular spare part for your car. You would end up with a pile of supplied spare parts the size of the Universe - and still no statistical chance of ever getting the spark plug that you ordered!!!
However, intelligence can easily ‘cross’ this ‘space’ by possessing the power to logically specify sequences to meet pre-determined, co-ordinated and fully integrated functional objectives.
DNA is basically a ‘chemical language’ that instructs the cellular machinery on how to construct the living organism and keep it alive. Like all languages it logically must have an intelligent source – because all languages (including DNA) are observed to have tightly specified unambiguously unique sequences in the midst of an effectively infinite amount of surrounding ‘useless combinatorial space’.
Scofflaw
I'm glad you're keeping up with your reading. Did you get it from Creation magazine, by any chance?
Creation magazine
Volume 29, Issue 3
Published June 2007
Page 48: Quotable quote
Does science need evolution?
Avraham Sonenthal
Interesting that you have chosen to edit out the name of the author of the quote (it was in the original version of your post, but has now disappeared), and the fact that this was a letter - surely you are not trying to gloss over the fact that this quote appeared on the Letters page, and is from a prominent rabbi and jurist?
I’m glad that you are keeping up with some excellent Creationist reading.
…….and the fact that Dr Avraham Sonenthal is a Jew PROVES that I am correct that the Creationist movement is made up of people of many religious perspectives……and NOT just Christians as some Evolutionists would like to maintain!!!!
Wicknight
I can (and I think Scofflaw already did) write a computer program that does work with natural selection that will filter random key presses and end up with an English sentence, exactly as evolution works.
These computer algorithms ‘work’ towards a pre-determined answer …………..which is exactly what Materialistic Evolution is supposed to NOT do!!!!!:eek:
Wicknight
How does Jesus feel about those who lie and attempt to deceive others. Pretty sure there are a couple of passages in the Bible that frown upon that. Based on how much of that you have done on this thread, where does that leave your salvation?
Here we go again.......whenever I land a 'killer' argument against Evolution, you go into denial 'overdrive' ................ and you start to run around in metaphorical circles shouting 'liar, liar pants on fire'!!!:D
I am a sinner, saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, but I am NOT a liar… and I have NEVER attempted to deceive ANYBODY!!!!:(
Could I also inform you that ONLY Jesus Christ can judge our eternal destiny.....and so my salvation (and yours) are matters that are between ourselves and Jesus Christ !!!0 -
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Wicknight wrote:Once again you demonstrate you ignorance of what the theory of evolution says
The "answer" is pre-determined by the ENVIRONMENT
....and just like the Robot with the 'busted' switch that no longer moves forward, will sooner rather than later be sent to the recycling facility, the "answer" that the environment will ultimately give to random attempts to move from simple organisms to complex ones will be DEATH.......but 'horizontal leverage' of the existing information base (like the 'Knicker Eating' frame shift) may be retained by the environment......provided the lost genetic information isn't critical to survival!!
The child in my robot example, might even keep her broken Robot because of it's 'gammy walk' (equivalent to the environment selecting it)......but nobody would claim that the Robot could be constructed, in the first place by breaking its switches.......or that by successively breaking more switches that the Robot could turn into a Flight Simulator!!!:D
Could I lovingly point out again that the real ‘killer’ for Evolution is the fact that even if we accept, for the sake of argument, that ALL sequences COULD potentially produce a 'functional protein', it would be impossible for an undirected system (or the 'environment') to 'discover' for example, a 'functional protein' for blood clotting where and when it 'needed' it, because by definition nearly all 10E +180 of the protein sequences 'out there' are in the 'useless combinatorial space' for blood clotting - so 'finding' the ACTUAL proten sequence to incorporate into the blood clotting cascade would defeat any 'blind' system like Macro-Evolution.
It would be like a spare parts company, randomly searching it's enormous warehouse of 10E+180 spare parts for a particular spare part for your car. You would end up with a pile of supplied spare parts the size of the Universe - and still no statistical chance of ever getting the spark plug that you ordered!!! :eek:
We can only plausibly rely on luck when the odds are less than astronomical......and 10E+180 IS astronomical!!!:D
Originally Posted by J C
....... I am NOT a liar… and I have NEVER attempted to deceive ANYBODY!!!!Wicknight wrote:This thread and your posts on it testifies otherwise ...
Where have I lied???
Lovingly,
J C0 -
What the heck are you talking about? That sentence has no relation to the bit you quoted. Do you actually understand anything we are talking about?J C wrote:the "answer" that the environment will ultimately give to random attempts to move from simple organisms to complex ones will be DEATH!!!
The "answer" given by the environment is whether or not the adaptation caused by mutation is beneficial to the organism.J C wrote:We can only plausibly rely on luck when the odds are less than astronomical......and 10E+180 IS astronomical!!!:DJ C wrote:Where have I lied???
You lie all the time, but you also happen to be lying in this very post, which I must say makes it easier for me. Stating that evolution claims a functioning modern proteins for something like blood clotting would simply originate completely randomly IS A LIE
Evolution does not state anything of the sort. You know it does not state anything of the sort (we have certainly told you enough times) and yet you continue to post that it does, thus you are lying (making a false statement with full knowledge of the incorrectness).
Blood clotting as a system did not simply turn on because the proteins that cause it were randomly found by mutation. Such a description of "evolution" is utter nonsense (and you know this, or at least you should by now). Blood clotting is actually the end product of millions of years of evolution from similar systems going all the way back to the plugging of cell walls, and proteins that cause it to happen are themselves pieced together from other proteins that used to do similar things. The proteins were not simply randomly come across by mutation. New proteins are more often than not formed by the combination of different proteins that already do useful thing.
You know all this already because this has already be explained to you. Just in case you want a refresher
http://www.millerandlevine.com/km/evol/DI/clot/Clotting.html
And, as I'm sure you know, lying makes baby Jesus cry.0 -
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Wicknight
You lie all the time, but you also happen to be lying in this very post, which I must say makes it easier for me. Stating that evolution claims a functioning modern proteins for something like blood clotting would simply originate completely randomly IS A LIE
What has happened, is that I have proven beyond all doubt that Evolution could NEVER happen …..and you are in DENIAL!!!!:eek:
Evolution DOES postulate that the Blood Clotting Cascade, in all its tightly specified complexity arose spontaneously through the interaction of mistakes (mutations) and selection.
The problem with such an hypothesis is that the number of failed attempts to make even ONE simple protein within the cascade would be on such a scale that the entire matter in the universe would be used up to do so……and we still wouldn’t have the protein!!!!!:D
I herewith quote from the interesting article referenced by you :-
“At its core, the actual mechanism of clotting is remarkably simple. “
……and if the following is ‘simple’, as Dr Miller claims, I will eat my hat....or even some Nylon!!! :eek:
“A fibrous, soluble protein called fibrinogen ("clot-maker") comprises about 3% of the protein in blood plasma. Fibrinogen has a sticky portion near the center of the molecule, but the sticky region is covered by little amino acid chains with negative charges. Because like charges repel, these chains keep fibrinogen molecules apart.
When a clot forms, a protease (protein-cutting) enzyme clips off the charged chains. This exposes the sticky parts of the molecule, and suddenly, fibrinogens (which are now called fibrins) start to stick together, beginning the formation of a clot.
The protease that cuts off the charged chains is called thrombin. So, just like the lobster clotting system, the heart of the reaction involves just two molecules: fibrinogen and thrombin. But, unlike the lobster, there's a lot more to this machine. It turns out that thrombin itself exists in an inactive form called prothrombin. So it, just like fibrinogen, has to be activated before it can start the clotting process. What activates prothrombin? Here's where life gets really interesting. Prothrombin, a protease itself, is activated by another protease called Factor X which clips of part of the inactive protein to produce active, clot-forming thrombin. OK, so what activates Factor X? Believe it or not, there are still more proteases, two of them, actually, called Factor VII and Factor IX, that can switch on Factor X. What switches them on?
Now, "beauty" is a word that most people wouldn't think to put in the same sentence with "biochemistry," but the biochemistry of this pathway is beautiful indeed. Start at the bottom, with the conversion of soluble fibrinogen into clot-forming fibrin. As you look up, you can trace this process to one of two different external stimuli, both of which make good sense. At the upper left, the pathway can be started with damage to a cell surface, something that happens whenever blood is exposed to the air or a foreign object at the surface of a wound. At the upper right, tissue factor, a soluble protein found in most tissues but not in the bloodstream, activates the pathway. This is where clotting starts from an internal hemorrage, a broken vessel within the tissues of the body. So, both of these ultimate stimuli lead to the same set of clot-forming proteins (Factor X, thrombin, and fibrin), but neither does it directly. Instead, each activates a "cascade" of intermediate factors, nearly all of them proteases, which eventually activate clot formation.
It sure does look pretty, but why a cascade? Why couldn't we have a simpler pathway, like the lobster, where something like tissue factor activated clotting directly? Well, we could, but a complex pathway, even if it drives biochemistry students to distraction, has advantages of its own. For one thing, the multiple steps of the cascade amplify the signal from that first stimulus. If a single active molecule of Factor XII could activate, say, 20 or 30 molecules of Factor XI, then each level of the cascade would multiply the effects of a starting signal. Put 5 or 6 steps in the cascade, and you've amplified a biochemical signal more than a million times. Clotting with fewer steps would still work, but it would take longer to produce a substantial clot, and would be much less responsive to smaller injuries.
Michael Behe is in awe of the the intricate complexity of this system, and so am I. And he is also correct in pointing out that if we take away part of this system, we're in trouble. Hemophiliacs, for example, are unable to synthesize the active form of Factor VIII. This means that they are unable to complete the final step of one of the pathways, and that's why hemophilia is sometimes known as the bleeder's disease. Defects or deficiencies in any of the other factors are equally serious. No doubt about it - clotting is an essential function and it's not something to be messed with. “
Could I gently remind you that such a precise, ordered and sequential system has DESIGN written all over it.
If any ONE of the steps are missing, or even mutated (like ‘inactive Factor VIII) the system doesn’t just work less well …..it doesn’t work AT ALL.
…….so it cannot have arisen gradually and incrementally, as postulated by Evolution…….it only works when everything is exactly in place and fully functioning…….which would indicate Direct Creation by an Intelligent Omnipotent God!!!!:cool:
If Evolution were true, biochemists could remove small parts of the constituent proteins within the cascade…..and it would still ‘work’ ……..but this is NOT what happens …as Dr Miller has himself confirmed “if we take away part of this system, we're in trouble”.
The expectation that ‘selection can save the day’ for the random process of mutation is patently ridiculous. As I have previously said, it would be like a spare parts company, randomly searching an enormous warehouse of 1E+180 spare parts for a particular spare part for your car. You would end up with a pile of supplied spare parts the size of the Universe - and still no statistical chance of ever getting the spark plug that you ordered!!!
Equally, it is observed that ALL functional proteins are tightly specified and in turn they perform highly specific tasks in a closely co-ordinated and tightly integrated manner with other proteins and bio-molecules within the living organism concerned – so there is a hierarchy of multiple layers of tightly specified complexity within which proteins perform their useful functions – and without which they would be functionally useless.
This logically indicates that functional proteins COULDN’T have ANY functionality until ALL of the critical sequence is formed and it is fully integrated within the organism and perfectly co-ordinated within for example, whatever cascade it is catalysing.
There are therefore enormous amounts of ‘useless combinatorial space’ between useful functional proteins and the ‘useless combinatorial space’ is so enormous (even in very short 100 chain proteins) that it would defeat all of the time and resources of the Universe to ‘cross’ it using undirected processes such as mutation and replications errors.
However, intelligence can easily ‘cross’ this ‘space’ by possessing the power to logically specify sequences to meet pre-determined, co-ordinated and fully integrated functional objectives.
DNA is basically a ‘chemical language’ that instructs the cellular machinery on how to construct the living organism and keep it alive. Like all languages it logically must have an intelligent source – because all languages (including DNA) are observed to have tightly specified unambiguously unique sequences in the midst of an effectively infinite amount of surrounding ‘useless combinatorial space’.
To illustrate, the 59 letters in the statement that “EVOLUTION HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE MATHEMATICALLY INVALID ON THIS THREAD” occupy a total potential ‘combinatorial space’ of 3.04E+83 i.e. (1/26 x 1/26 x 1/26 ………….59 times)
This happens to be also greater than the number of electrons in the Universe.
In practice, it would therefore be impossible for an UNDIRECTED computer programme to EVER combine the 26 letters of the alphabet into this statement using undirected processes.
However, by applying very basic Human Intelligence to specifying the exact sequence of the letters, we easily overcome the effectively infinite ‘useless combinatorial’ space surrounding this unique, tightly specified and functionally understandable sequence of letters.
An example of the ‘useless combinatorial space’ within these 59 letters would be “SGFVXY BHESKGDFW BJJGDSDUPWDSBN NHGDFJKK JJHNSMDOOERYNNDK GYUWOQ”
- and a further approximately 10E+83 of similarly ‘functionally useless’ 59 letter ‘sets of gobbledygook’.!!!!
If a short meaningful sentence in the English language cannot be generated by random processes – then a meaningful DNA stretch for a functional protein also cannot be generated by random processes – and Materialistic Macro-Mutation is an essentially random process.
Wicknight
Blood clotting as a system did not simply turn on because the proteins that cause it were randomly found by mutation. Such a description of "evolution" is utter nonsense (and you know this, or at least you should by now). Blood clotting is actually the end product of millions of years of evolution from similar systems going all the way back to the plugging of cell walls, and proteins that cause it to happen are themselves pieced together from other proteins that used to do similar things.
Question…..what are the ‘simpler’ intermediates then??
Answer…..they DON’T exist!!!
….because they have NEVER existed!!!
…….and the Blood Clotting Cascade is an Irreducibly Complex System!!!:cool:
Wicknight
The proteins were not simply randomly come across by mutation. New proteins are more often than not formed by the combination of different proteins that already do useful thing.
Not so, most proteins are totally UNIQUE…..and combining them makes BOTH proteins functionally USELESS!!!
Wicknight
lying makes baby Jesus cry.
Jesus Christ is NOT a helpless baby…..He is the Sovereign God of the Universe.
……He does sometimes cry …….at the folly of people trying to live without Him!!!
……..and at the Evolutionists who do logical contortions that would leave Harry Houdini tied up in knots, in order to deny Him!!!!:eek:
Robin
………..one of the few remaining CSE staff -- has started firing off DCMA take-down notices to YouTube alleging copyright violation on any video in which Kent appears………
………..YouTube is playing safe by taking down the videos concerned………
I wonder what wolfsbane -- if he's around? -- thinks of creationists using the law to silence their opponents like this?
The issue that you cite doesn’t seem to be one of silencing anybody…it seems to be simple issue of Copyright Law.
I have no idea about the ‘ins and outs’ of the case you cite, Robin………but availing of the protection of civil law would fall within the general principle of “rendering unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God the things that are God’s.”
The Civil Law is there to protect the rights of everyone ……………and believe it or not, Robin....... ‘everyone’ DOES include Creationists!!!! :eek: 0 -
Intelligent design or Creation....ISM!!!:eek: :cool: , don't explain HOW all the matter in the universe could be used to CLOT A SINGLE CuT!!!!!!!!J C wrote:What has happened, is that I have proven beyond all doubt that Evolution could NEVER happen …..and you are in DENIAL!!!!
Evolution DOES postulate that the Blood Clotting Cascade, in all its tightly specified complexity arose spontaneously through the interaction of mistakes (mutations) and selection.
The problem with such an hypothesis is that the number of failed attempts to make even ONE simple protein within the cascade would be on such a scale that the entire matter in the universe would be used up to do so……and we still wouldn’t have the protein!!!!!
IF creationism and UN-intelligent design is right I'll eat THE WHOLE ARK ALONG WITH NOAH!!!! DID hats sin on the first day, lol?!!!……and if the following is ‘simple’, as Dr Miller claims, I will eat my hat....or even some Nylon!!!
WHATS USEFUL combinatorial space? a place where losers hang out? Maybe unintelligent-ism design-ism CAN find out???There are therefore enormous amounts of ‘useless combinatorial space’In practice, it would therefore be impossible for an UNDIRECTED computer programme to EVER combine the 26 letters of the alphabet into this statement using undirected processes.
However, by applying very basic Human Intelligence to specifying the exact sequence of the letters, we easily overcome the effectively infinite ‘useless combinatorial’ space surrounding this unique, tightly specified and functionally understandable sequence of letters.
Is THE snowfall upon us?!!!:( :mad:
:rolleyes: 
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Son Goku
Intelligent design or Creation....ISM!!!, don't explain HOW all the matter in the universe could be used to CLOT A SINGLE CuT!!!!!!!!
I will AGAIN let Dr Stephen C Meyer, Director of The Discovery Institute Centre for Science & Culture, explain WHY Intelligent Design can do things efficiently and with minimal matter at it’s disposal :-
“Rational agents can constrain combinatorial space with distant outcomes in mind. The causal powers that natural selection lacks – almost by definition – are associated with the attributes of consciousness and rationality – with purposeful intelligence……….
For this reason, recent scientific interest in the design hypothesis is unlikely to abate as biologists continue to wrestle with the problem of the origination of biological form and the higher taxa.”
……that is ALSO how every manufactured article is made!!!:eek:
Son Goku
IF creationism and UN-intelligent design is right I'll eat THE WHOLE ARK ALONG WITH NOAH!!!! DID hats sin on the first day, lol?!!!
Hats didn’t sin ……. but the matter from which they are made was condemned by God when Man fell.
……..and BTW digesting your hat will be the least of your concerns IF you do not accept Jesus Christ as your personal savour before you die.:cool:
Son Goku
WHATS USEFUL combinatorial space? a place where losers hang out? Maybe unintelligent-ism design-ism CAN find out???
Useful combinatorial space is the miniscule number of combinations of Amino Acids that produce functional proteins. You see DNA is a ‘language’ ……and like all languages it occupies tiny tightly specified complex 'islands’ of combinatorial space ……which are separated by virtual ‘oceans’ of useless non-functional combinatorial space…….and that is why selecting among a trillion.trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion, trillion possible randomly generated sequences would defeat the universe to produce them and NS to select them .........and so functionally useful bio-molecules can NEVER be produced from scratch spontaneously !!!
Scofflaw
We will stop at nothing to suppress the truth, I guess.
Some people are into suppression and others are into expression!!!
I am of the latter persuasion ......... and so are many other people of all faiths, including (some) Evolutionists and Atheists!!!
Christians are 'called out' to proclaim the TRUTH……..but they are not asked to coerce anybody into believing it.
Suppression of ideas and knowledge impoverishes Mankind and I am therefore against censorship of EITHER Evolution or Creation.
I actually welcome alternative opinion ……and I thrive on active debate.
This thread proves that one Creation Scientist can debate with almost 100 other people and win practically every argument put up to him!!!!!!.
I am probably not any more intelligent than most of my adversaries and I probably don’t have access to any more sources of knowledge than most of them either.….. but I am living proof that with God (and His truth) on your side NOBODY can overcome you!!!:D
.......and the truth will set you free!!!:D
Loving you already,
J C:)0 -
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daithifleming wrote:No, i just grow weary of your lies.
I may have said things that you don't want to hear.....
...and I may have said things with which you don't agree.....
.......but I haven't lied!!!
Where have I lied ?...........and BTW telling you something that you don't want to hear about Evolution doesn't count!!!!:D
With love
J C0 -
J C wrote:What has happened, is that I have proven beyond all doubt that Evolution could NEVER happen …..and you are in DENIAL!!!!:eek:
Is that what is happened ... :rolleyes:J C wrote:Evolution DOES postulate that the Blood Clotting Cascade, in all its tightly specified complexity arose spontaneously through the interaction of mistakes (mutations) and selection.
Yes it does.J C wrote:The problem with such an hypothesis is that the number of failed attempts to make even ONE simple protein within the cascade would be on such a scale that the entire matter in the universe would be used up to do so
No it wouldn't because it doesn't work like that. This has been explained to you before.J C wrote:If Evolution were true, biochemists could remove small parts of the constituent proteins within the cascade…..and it would still ‘work’
No it wouldn't work because evolution doesn't "add small parts", and the reverse of evolution isn't removing small parts :rolleyes:
You know this JC because it has been explained to you. Evolution doesn't add, it changes.
There is a difference between something not existing and you not being aware of it.J C wrote:Question…..what are the ‘simpler’ intermediates then??
Answer…..they DON’T exist!!!
Evolution theory predicted that we should find non-clotting fibrinogen like proteins in invertebrate life forms, because the theory says that clotting fibrinogen genes evolved from the combination of these.
And strangely enough we do ... a theory making a prediction that is later found in reality ... sounds like science to me.
That point is largely irrelevant since it has been already demonstrated on this thread irreducibly complex systems can still evolve.J C wrote:…….and the Blood Clotting Cascade is an Irreducibly Complex System!!!:cool:
As I said evolution is not about adding things, and the reverse of evolution is not about taking things away.J C wrote:Not so, most proteins are totally UNIQUE…..and combining them makes BOTH proteins functionally USELESS!!!
That is untrue, as has been pointed out to you before.J C wrote:Wicknight
lying makes baby Jesus cry.
Jesus Christ is NOT a helpless baby…..He is the Sovereign God of the Universe.
……He does sometimes cry …….at the folly of people trying to live without Him!!!
……..and at the Evolutionists who do logical contortions that would leave Harry Houdini tied up in knots, in order to deny Him!!!!:eek:
Ummm ... did I hit a nerve ...0 -
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J C wrote:I may have said things that you don't want to hear.....
...and I may have said things with which you don't agree.....
.......but I haven't lied!!!
Where have I lied ?...........and BTW telling you something that you don't want to hear about Evolution doesn't count!!!!:D
Hmm. Well, mostly I don't want to hear things about evolution that are incorrect, or deliberately misconstrued, or downright mendacious, so I guess if they don't count then from my point of view you're off the hook.
cordially,
Scofflaw0 -
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