The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

Ekancone

Wicknight wrote: »

What? How do you define "things lawful"?

Was Hitler God's minister?

I think Hitler and God would get on well. Both ain't fans of Jews, both are no strangers to genocide. Both are sexist/racist/megalomaniac/petty/unjust, etc, etc.

santing

wicknight wrote:

Just as Augustus Caesar was when Paul wrote Romans 13.

I thought Nero was Caesar when Romans was written ...

daithifleming wrote:

I think Hitler and God would get on well.

Boy, I think you should meet my God ... He is merciful and gracious; slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. (Exodus 34:6,7)

Ekancone

santing wrote: »

I thought Nero was Caesar when Romans was written ...


Boy, I think you should meet my God ... He is merciful and gracious; slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. (Exodus 34:6,7)

Perhaps we should forget about all the other stuff then. Glug, glug.

Zombrex

santing wrote: »

Boy, I think you should meet my God ...

Er, which god is that now?

Exodus
You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand {generations} of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Nahum
The LORD is a jealous and avenging God; the LORD takes vengeance and is filled with wrath. The LORD takes vengeance on his foes and maintains his wrath against his enemies.

Here is hoping I don't have children ....

J C

Scofflaw wrote: »

Oh, we'll discuss anything here. Well, except things we won't, obviously.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I didn't think there was ANYTHING that you wouldn't discuss........

.......isn't it amazing that Skeptics have 'sensitive' subjects that they refuse to discuss......

........classic 'Slides' behaviour!!!!:D

......kinda bad for the 'freewheeling' image that Skeptics like to project......when they then claim to be AFRAID to discuss some things that THEY deem to be 'out of bounds'........
......also kinda bad for the 'God is dead' image that they like to project ........when they ACTUALLY believe in a Supreme Being!!!!

.....Jesus Christ WILL save all Skeptics if they just call on His name......please remember that all power in Heaven and on Earth has been given to Jesus by God.......

Libera nos ab omnibus malis per Nomine Domine Jesu Christe

Adjutorium nostrum in Nomine Domine Jesu Christe. Qui fecit coelum et terram.

Benedicat vos Scofflaw omnipotens Deus nostra Domine Jesu Christe.

Pater noster, qui es in coelis. Sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in coelo, et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debiroribus nostris, et ne nos inductas in tentationem.
Sed libera nos a male.

In principe erat Verbum et Verbum erat apud Deum. Et Deus erat Verbum. Hoc erat in principio apud Deum. Omnia per ipsum facta sunt, et sine ipso factum est nihil quod factum est. In ipso vita erat, et vita erat lux hominum. Et lux in tenebris lucet, et tenebrae eam non comprehenderunt.

In mundo erat, et mundus per ipsum factus est et mundus eum non cognovit. In propria venit, et sui eum, non receperunt. Quotquot autem receperunt eum, dedit eis potestatem filios Dei fieri. His qui credunt in Nomine ejus, qui non ex sanginibus, neque ex voluntate carnis, neque ex volutate viri, sed ex Deo nati sunt. Et Verbum caro factum est et habitavit in nobis et vidimus gloriam ejus, gloriam quasi Unigeniti a Patre, plenum gratiae et veritatis.

Sed tantum dic verbo "Credo in Jesu Christe" et servare tu. (Fac 16:31)

J C

Wicknight wrote: »

Er, which god is that now?

There is but ONE God!!!

......to whom everyone will have to give an account!!!

Wicknight wrote: »

Here is hoping I don't have children ....

Strange statement from a Materialistic Evolutionist......when most Materialists believe that children are the means of achieving immortality (via their genes)!!!!!

sdep

J C wrote: »

........classic 'Slides' behaviour!!!!:D

[...]

Sed tantum dic verbo "Credo in Jesu Christe" et servare tu. (Fac 16:31)

I think by now you have amply demonstrated cod psychology and cod latin to be of a kind.

[Edit:]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIAdHEwiAy8

J C

sdep wrote: »

I think by now you have amply demonstrated cod psychology and cod latin to be of a kind.

This isn't a cod........nor is it 'The Life of Brian'.....Scofflaw seems to be genuinely scared........please pray for him.

Benedicat vos Scofflaw omnipotens Deus nostra Domine Jesu Christe.

Pater noster, qui es in coelis. Sanctificetur Nomen tuum. Fiat voluntas tua, sicut in coelo, et in terra. Panem nostrum quotidianum da nobis hodie, et dimitte nobis debita nostra, sicut et nos dimittimus debiroribus nostris, et ne nos inductas in tentationem.
Sed libera nos a male.

Libera nos ab omnibus malis per Nomine Domine Jesu Christe

Let us also pray that all Evolutionists will overcome their 'Slides' conditioning ......and realise that natural processes could NOT evolve/create Human Beings......and ONLY an omnipotent God could have created us from the dust of the Earth.

Could I also point out that the reason why Materialists fear the possible malevolence of fallen creation......is because Materialists are in awe of (and ultimately in fear of) created things......rather than the Creator.........who loves us and wants to save us.

Ultimately, the Creation/Evolution issue is a spiritual one.........for as St Paul says in Eph 6:12
we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

..and the solution is given in Eph 6:13-18
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God:
Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

wolfsbane

robindch said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
Er, No, for we are not under the Law of Moses nor in the nation of Israel under that law.

Does that mean that you believe that all the rules and definitions in the OT have been entirely replaced, or just some of them?

The ones relating to the national administration and the ceremonial laws. The eternal laws remain: against murder, theft, sexual immorality, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfsbane
Punishment is a matter for the State

If a state law said to stone women who are found to have had sex with a man to whom they are not married, would you support and/or carry out this law?

I would think it too severe to be practical for a godless society like ours. But it would be a just restraint on evil, so the sinner has no grounds to complain if they know the score beforehand.

It's just that if every sin was rewarded with death - as it will be on the Day of Judgement - none would survive. And survival is one of the purposes God gives us the State. It has to get the balance between punishing evil and enabling society to exist.

wolfsbane

daithifleming wrote: »

*COUGH*

http://www.armyofgod.com/Paulhillindex.html

Genesis 9:6

Who so sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed:
for in the image of God made he man.

Numbers 35:33

So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are:
for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the
blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it.
Last edited by daithifleming : Yesterday at 20:21.

*COUGH*

Mr. Hill certainly took the law into his own hands. He seems to justify it on the same grounds you and I might use violence to stop someone being murdered or raped - self defence/protection of the innocent.

Removing it from the abortion controversy, we might ask ourselves if we would have helped a Jewish child escape from a death train even if it meant we had to kill a guard.

Moral complexities do exist, but should not take us away from the general principle that punishment for crime is a function of the State, not the individual.

wolfsbane

Wicknight wrote: »

What? How do you define "things lawful"?

Was Hitler God's minister?

Things that are in accordance with God's laws. For instance, if the State commands me to wear my seat-belt, I am morally obliged to do so because God has given them the right to legislate for our welfare. But if they command me to abort babies, I am not to, for God has forbidden murder.

And, Yes, Hitler was God's minister - in as far as he ministered justice in Germany. Nazi Germany was not entirely lawless, and the believer there was obliged to obey all divinely-lawful laws, even though originating from Hitler.

wolfsbane

santing said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wicknight
Just as Augustus Caesar was when Paul wrote Romans 13.

I thought Nero was Caesar when Romans was written ...

My fault for not being specific: The title Augustus was taken by later successors to the Augustus (27BC-14AD). The one when Paul wrote Romans 13 seems likely to be Nero (AD54-68).

wolfsbane

Scofflaw said:

It would make me ask "why?" if it weren't for the fact that it's dismissed because it has been investigated - indeed, was the first geological paradigm. It is discredited, not suppressed - out of date and discarded as untrue. No new evidence has come to light to require a reopening of the case - its "reopening" by the Creationist movement is a political move, not a scientific one.

But dissent amongst revelantly qualified scientists remained, and remains. It is their scientific argument that is being suppressed, not discredited.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/

http://www.afaf.org.uk/

wolfsbane

daithifleming said:

So which is it? The god with an elephants head? Thor? Buddha? The Christian God?

The latter.

Im confused. Everyone seems to have a different god that cant wrong. They are all right?

No, most of them are confused like you.

So there are many gods? I thought there was just one?

One true One, the rest are phonies.

What about Zeus? I really liked that guy... Maybe i will go with him, or maybe i will go with Ra, or Horus. Wow, there are just so many gods who are perfect and cant be wrong, i just cant choose! Im spoiled for choice!

I note your lack of taste, but it really doesn't matter which of these false gods you choose - they'll all fail you.

It is a shame that there isn't another way of understanding the universe that is based on evidence and not blind faith...

There is:
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The evidence is all around - and in your conscience. It is just your dark heart that doesn't want to acknowledge it.

Actually im in the market for a god and i got a list, will you help me go through it and pick one?

Delighted to!

So many gods, so little time. Its so hard to choose because ALL of them claim to be the true god. ALL of them claim to have appeared and have a magic book. ALL of them have a magic world for me to go to when i die. Its so hard!

See above about your dark heart.

Let me introduce the true God to you and hear what He says to you:
Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Ekancone

wolfsbane wrote: »

daithifleming said:

The latter.


No, most of them are confused like you.


One true One, the rest are phonies.


I note your lack of taste, but it really doesn't matter which of these false gods you choose - they'll all fail you.


There is:
Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The evidence is all around - and in your conscience. It is just your dark heart that doesn't want to acknowledge it.


Delighted to!


See above about your dark heart.

Let me introduce the true God to you and hear what He says to you:
Acts 17:24 God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Cool, the arrogance of your assertion must mean that you have proof for this God of yours. Tell you what, you show me a God that exists and i'll give you a devoted follower.

wolfsbane

Scofflaw wrote: »

Hmm. Subliminal evidence suggests that Americans do believe in evolution, as long as it applies to certain "other people".

cordially,
Scofflaw

Yes, many Americans do believe in evolution, as witnessed by the hysteria against Creationism.

Your link was very helpful. I appreciated this especially:
Although such grotesque characterizations of African Americans have largely disappeared from mainstream U.S. society, Eberhardt noted that science education could be partly responsible for reinforcing the view that blacks are less evolved than whites. An iconic 1970 illustration, "March of Progress," published in the Time-Life book Early Man, depicts evolution beginning with a chimpanzee and ending with a white man. "It's a legacy of our past that the endpoint of evolution is a white man," Eberhardt said. "I don't think it's intentional, but when people learn about human evolution, they walk away with a notion that people of African descent are closer to apes than people of European descent. When people think of a civilized person, a white man comes to mind."

wolfsbane

daithifleming wrote: »

Cool, the arrogance of your assertion must mean that you have proof for this God of yours. Tell you what, you show me a God that exists and i'll give you a devoted follower.

As I pointed out, the evidence is before your very eyes. All you need to do is open them - that is, let the evidence of your eyes pass the anti-God filter of your mind.

Ekancone

wolfsbane wrote: »

As I pointed out, the evidence is before your very eyes. All you need to do is open them - that is, let the evidence of your eyes pass the anti-God filter of your mind.

Hmm, nope still can't see him. Ah well, off to hell for me then...

Zombrex

wolfsbane wrote: »

"I don't think it's intentional, but when people learn about human evolution, they walk away with a notion that people of African descent are closer to apes than people of European descent. When people think of a civilized person, a white man comes to mind."[/COLOR]

Well hear is hoping that Creationism never replaces evolution, since it actually does teach that African people are "degraded" from the original "perfect" white man (created in the image of God don't ya know), where as the above is simply a misunderstanding of what evolution says

J C

Wicknight wrote: »

Well hear is hoping that Creationism never replaces evolution, since it actually does teach that African people are "degraded" from the original "perfect" white man (created in the image of God don't ya know), where as the above is simply a misunderstanding of what evolution says

The 'White God with a white beard'......is just somebody's imaginings.......we are ALL 'blood relatives' ........white, brown and black......descended from Adam and Eve......who were most likely brown skinned!!!!

There is NO BASIS for racism in Creation Science......if anything the dark skinned peoples are closer to the original perfectly created Humans......and it is us 'pale-skins'.......who are 'genetically challenged'......when it comes to skin pigmentation.....or the lack of it!!!!!

I have to stay in the shade or use Factor 40 on a sunny day.....and instead of getting a nice tan......I break out in freckles!!!:D

santing

daithifleming wrote: »

Hmm, nope still can't see him.

DaithiFleming, I would love to help you ... let's get some common ground. Can you prove your own existence?

J C

daithifleming wrote: »

Ah well, off to hell for me then...

....be careful what you wish for ......you might get it!!!;)

Ekancone

santing wrote: »

DaithiFleming, I would love to help you ... let's get some common ground. Can you prove your own existence?

No i cannot.

Scofflaw

wolfsbane wrote: »

Yes, many Americans do believe in evolution, as witnessed by the hysteria against Creationism.

Your link was very helpful. I appreciated this especially:
Although such grotesque characterizations of African Americans have largely disappeared from mainstream U.S. society, Eberhardt noted that science education could be partly responsible for reinforcing the view that blacks are less evolved than whites. An iconic 1970 illustration, "March of Progress," published in the Time-Life book Early Man, depicts evolution beginning with a chimpanzee and ending with a white man. "It's a legacy of our past that the endpoint of evolution is a white man," Eberhardt said. "I don't think it's intentional, but when people learn about human evolution, they walk away with a notion that people of African descent are closer to apes than people of European descent. When people think of a civilized person, a white man comes to mind."

Indeed, the process of misinterpreting science is an ongoing one*.

cordially,
Scofflaw

*free straight line!

J C

Scofflaw wrote: »

Indeed, the process of misinterpreting science is an ongoing one*.

Yes, indeed, the process of misinterpreting science is an ongoing one.....
.......for Evolutionists!!!:eek::D:)

Scofflaw wrote: »

cordially,
Scofflaw

Praying for you
J C:)

J C

Originally Posted by santing
DaithiFleming, .......
......Can you prove your own existence?

daithifleming wrote: »

No i cannot.

........so do you believe that you are a figment of your own imagination.......or somebody else's?????:eek::)

2Scoops

wolfsbane wrote: »

It is their scientific argument that is being suppressed, not discredited.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091617/

http://www.afaf.org.uk/

On the contrary, their scientific argument is not being suppressed at all. They do not have a scientific argument, only a philosophical one. A fact that has been explained exhaustively to you and others.

LOL @ using Ben Stein's awful, less than honest movie (I have watched it) to support your point.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

2 Scoops...you are becoming quite an accomplished Creationist!!!:eek::D

It's quite easy - just abandon reason, ignore evidence and put your trust on the infallible word of God. So much easier than the real thing.

J C wrote: »

The Holy Spirit is telling me that you believe in a Supreme Being, Scofflaw!!!

I find your personal communications with the holy spirit to be deeply facsinating. In what way does it manifest - voices in one's head, I imagine?

J C wrote: »

......what is your opinion on the 'Guidestones'????

A Christian plot to wipe 90% of humanity? An oblique reference to the Rapture? Or perhaps it's linked to this...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55152773#post55152773

J C wrote: »

Fnord!!!

Not as well read as you could be, J C.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

It's quite easy - just abandon reason, ignore evidence and put your trust on the infallible word of God. So much easier than the real thing.

.....but the ONE ultimate reality IS God!!!:D

......and all reason and evidence supports Creation over spontaneous Evolution.

2Scoops wrote: »

I find your personal communications with the holy spirit to be deeply facsinating. In what way does it manifest - voices in one's head, I imagine?

.....yes it is fascinating!!!:D

2Scoops wrote: »

A Christian plot to wipe 90% of humanity? An oblique reference to the Rapture? Or perhaps it's linked to this...
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55152773#post55152773

.....don't know!!!!!!!!!!!

2Scoops wrote: »

Not as well read as you could be, J C.

......always willing to learn though!!!

Ekancone

J C wrote: »

Originally Posted by santing
DaithiFleming, .......
......Can you prove your own existence?


........so do you believe that you are a figment of your own imagination.......or somebody else's?????:eek::)

Well i assume he meant proof, as in absolute proof. The evidence would suggest that i do exist, however it would be impossible for me to prove beyond all doubt that this is the case. The evidence would suggest that God doesn't exist (insofar as mans explanation for God goes), however it is impossible to rule the existence of 'A' God out.