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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    Why do christians make themselves out to be loving and caring when they are anything but? Why do you believe atheists are the ones with bad morals?

    I have no problem with people being gay. If two people love each other, whats the problem with that? Who cares what a bunch of desert nomads thought?
    I have no problem with people being gay. If two people love each other, whats the problem with that? The problem is that they they were created to have sex man to woman. Any other sort - homosexual, bestial, pedo - is a perversion and a degradation of their dignity as being made in God's image.

    That is the Biblical case. Obviously many today see man as a free agent able to invent his own morality, and many embrace perverted sex as just as valid as the Biblical version. They do not care what a bunch of desert nomads thought. But Christians do, and most importantly, God does. He will hold everyone to account for the use they make of their bodies and minds.

    Is it loving and caring to fail to warn our fellowman that homosexual behaviour will land them in hell? To refuse to call them to repentance, lest society today judges us as unloving, uncaring and having bad morals?

    Love demands we evangelise all sinners, including homosexuals. The church of Christ is composed of just such sinners who have turned from their evil way:
    1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    I have no problem with people being gay. If two people love each other, whats the problem with that? The problem is that they they were created to have sex man to woman. Any other sort - homosexual, bestial, pedo - is a perversion and a degradation of their dignity as being made in God's image.

    That is the Biblical case. Obviously many today see man as a free agent able to invent his own morality, and many embrace perverted sex as just as valid as the Biblical version. They do not care what a bunch of desert nomads thought. But Christians do, and most importantly, God does. He will hold everyone to account for the use they make of their bodies and minds.

    Is it loving and caring to fail to warn our fellowman that homosexual behaviour will land them in hell? To refuse to call them to repentance, lest society today judges us as unloving, uncaring and having bad morals?

    Love demands we evangelise all sinners, including homosexuals. The church of Christ is composed of just such sinners who have turned from their evil way:
    1 Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.

    Thats just nasty. Thankfully you are wrong about the whole god thing, at least in man's interpretation of him/her/it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    Thats just nasty. Thankfully you are wrong about the whole god thing, at least in man's interpretation of him/her/it.
    Hmm. You know I'm wrong? Care to enlighten us with what is the correct version of the whole god thing?

    Or are you just hoping I'm wrong?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    No, im not hoping. If your god exists, i want nothing to do with him. But i very much doubt that, there are so many different gods and so many different ways of interpreting those gods that its obvious that they are all constructs of man. I can't say whether a god created the universe or not, but im sure that you are wrong. Sure the only reason you believe what you believe was geographically determined anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    No, im not hoping. If your god exists, i want nothing to do with him. But i very much doubt that, there are so many different gods and so many different ways of interpreting those gods that its obvious that they are all constructs of man. I can't say whether a god created the universe or not, but im sure that you are wrong. Sure the only reason you believe what you believe was geographically determined anyway.
    You share the same attitude to God as the great majority of mankind. Romans 1:18-32 explains it:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%201:18-32;&version=50;

    Your logic however is not good - many gods = no God is a logical error.

    The belief in many gods is just what the Bible reveals as the consequence of failure to believe in the One True God.

    Religion has some geographical manifestations, but that is not the reason I'm a Christian. There are Christians in every nation on Earth, often in the midst of serious persecution. There are no natural-born Christians - all of them have to be born-again.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    You share the same attitude to God as the great majority of mankind. Romans 1:18-32 explains it:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=romans%201:18-32;&version=50;

    Your logic however is not good - many gods = no God is a logical error.

    The belief in many gods is just what the Bible reveals as the consequence of failure to believe in the One True God.

    Religion has some geographical manifestations, but that is not the reason I'm a Christian. There are Christians in every nation on Earth, often in the midst of serious persecution. There are no natural-born Christians - all of them have to be born-again.

    What a load of nonsense. Why would i want to go to heaven anyway? It would just be full of people like you. Sounds like my idea of hell.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    32828367_dbc1a24333.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    32828367_dbc1a24333.jpg

    ......OK.....if 'Intelligent Geography' is the use of a MAP!!!!

    .......what is 'Moronic Geography' then????

    .......is it the expectation that a Monkey can use a map ....perhaps!!!!!!:eek:banghead.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Scofflaw
    wrote:
    What can I say? I am...amazed anew.

    What can I say?

    To be amazed once by CS is good…..to be amazed anew by CS is VERY, VERY good!!!:D


    Wicknight
    wrote:
    And I'm sure having a PhD in Psychology places the good doctor in an excellent position to argue with biologists....

    He certainly knows how they think!!!:)


    Wicknight
    wrote:
    ......the abiotic origin theory of petroleum production has been terrible at predicting where to find oil and as such has been pretty much abandoned by the vast majority of oil prospectors?

    You are quite entitled to your opinion!!!!

    ……and such matters are Industrial Knowhow…….and thus not to be discussed in a public forum.:eek:


    Daithifleming
    wrote:
    I have yet to see a creationist model.

    ……..ALL Creationist Models that I know are very beautiful!!:cool:


    Hot Dog
    wrote:
    I hate manure.

    ……always a good point for an Evolutionist to start from!! !!!!!:eek::pac::pac::pac::) banghead.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 142 ✭✭Hot Dog


    J C wrote: »
    ......OK.....so 'Intelligent Geography' is the use of a MAP!!!!

    .......what is 'Moronic Geography' then????

    .......is it the expectation that a Monkey can use a map ....perhaps!!!!!!:eek:banghead.gif

    ......Ok.......SO......what does.........your post mean????:confused::cool:

    Maybe......you think the........earth cannot........be flat ........as alll the flood ........water ......would drain off? :eek::o:p

    Or maybe..........you are.....also a cartographic ....expert .....too?:eek::cool::eek::D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Hot Dog wrote: »
    ......Ok.......SO......what does.........your post mean????:confused::cool:

    Maybe......you think the........earth cannot........be flat ........as alll the flood ........water ......would drain off? :eek::o:p

    Or maybe..........you are.....also a cartographic ....expert .....too?:eek::cool::eek::D

    My point was that 'Moronic Geography' would be expecting a monkey to(eventually) read a map.......or assuming that just because a map of the World is flat ......that Earth is also flat!!!! banghead.gif


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    ......Following up my requests for examples of censorship regarding peer-reviews of Creationist submissions, I have gathered a few more links that are helpful.

    These links have shocked and apalled me......and should shock and apall any fair-minded person

    I have recently looked in five libraries and failed to find EVEN ONE Creationist book…….and I have looked in four bookstores ….and AGAIN failed to find any Creationist book!!!!banghead.gif

    ……..but I did find full coverage of Evolution, from every possible angle, during my casual perusal of the reading material available to the Irish public!!!!:eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    www.creationontheweb.com

    Given that it has already established on this thread that articles from Creation Ministries cannot be trusted as they appear to have no proper form of editorial process and frequently post articles with lies and misrepresentations, I'm rather at a loss why you would continue to post articles from them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Given that it has already established on this thread that articles from Creation Ministries cannot be trusted as they appear to have no proper form of editorial process and frequently post articles with lies and misrepresentations, I'm rather at a loss why you would continue to post articles from them?

    WHEN was that established???

    .....I must have missed that!!!eek::pac::pac::pac::) banghead.gif


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    wolfsbane wrote: »
    Following up my requests for examples of censorship regarding peer-reviews of Creationist submissions, I have gathered a few more links that are helpful.
    Here's one directly on peer-review:
    Correspondence w/ Science Journals
    Response to critics concerning peer-review

    http://www.trueorigin.org:80/behe07.asp

    I found the editors here to be quite welcoming to Behe's potential contribution. But the primary problem was that he had no data to support his argument. His submission was yet another review poking holes in evolution. No original data to be seen. No scientific investigation. And certainly no scientific evidence for intelligent design or creationism. Behe, apparently, does not actually perform any experiments himself. And that in itself is not the problem - he simply couldn't articulate his philosophical points using supporting facts.

    However, as good-natured as the editors' comments were, the review he got back, although the arguments against Behe's submission seemed sound, was incredibly rude and patronizing. That's bad form - appalling in fact. But it wasn't what stopped him getting published.

    No other evidence in the links of peer-review censorship? Is that it? A single solitary flawed review of evolution, correctly rejected? Behe's unwillingness to further his argument through the use of data? Looks like he's being very unresponsive to me, honestly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭sdep


    J C wrote: »
    I have looked in five public libraries and failed to find EVEN ONE Creationist book…….and I have looked in four bookstores ….and AGAIN failed to find any Creationist book!!!!

    I suspect it's down to lack of demand.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    J C wrote: »
    ……and here is a rather telling quote from a leading Conventional Astronomer on his experiences of the stultifying effects of, at least some, ‘peer review’ processes:-

    ‘Refereeing, or “peer review” as it is rather pompously called, is now unworkable. It has increasingly shown that it lets in the bad papers and excludes the good ones, exactly the opposite of what it is supposed to do. Just in abstract principle, science is suppose to be a competition of ideas and indeed, as we have seen, it is very competitive. Is it reasonable then to send your ideas and data to an anonymous competitor who can with impunity often steal, suppress or ridicule them? ... As a result more and more important observational results are simply not being published in the journals in which one would habitually look for such results. The referees themselves, with the aid of compliant editors, have turned what was originally a helpful system into a chaotic and mostly unprincipled form of censorship’banghead.gif

    All quotes and no evidence, J C. All hat and no trousers. :) The creationism modus operandi. :pac::pac::pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    sdep wrote: »
    I suspect it's down to lack of demand.

    Doesn't he know you can also request new acquisitions for your local library? Sounds like he's not being very proactive in getting the creationist message to the people. :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 194 ✭✭sdep


    2Scoops wrote: »
    All quotes and no evidence, J C. All hat and no trousers. :) The creationism modus operandi. :pac::pac::pac:

    Ex nihilo nihil fit, you might say.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    or assuming that just because a map of the World is flat ......that Earth is also flat!!!!
    Or to be so daft as to think that because something looks designed, that it is designed. Sheesh!
    J C wrote: »
    I have recently looked in five libraries and failed to find EVEN ONE Creationist book…….and I have looked in four bookstores ….and AGAIN failed to find any Creationist book!!!!
    I looked in a few bookshops in town a few years back and managed to find just one single piece of creationist agitprop. The owner of the bookshop told me that he was embarrassed it was there because it made religion look really dumb.

    I'm happy to see that things have improved since then!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    J C wrote: »
    Scofflaw


    What can I say?

    To be amazed once by CS is good…..to be amazed anew by CS is VERY, VERY good!!!:D

    Oh, I'm amazed every time I look at CS.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    WHEN was that estasblished???

    .....I must have missed that!!!eek::pac::pac::pac::) banghead.gif

    You were probably away on one of your many scientific field trips discovering dinosaur bones from the middle ages :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    or assuming that just because a map of the World is flat ......that Earth is also flat!!!!

    Well they are Biblical Creationists ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Well they are Biblical Creationists ...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

    LMFAO! How deluded can people be?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Eschatologist


    A newsletter from the [Flat Earth] society gives some insight into Johnson's thinking:
    Aim: To carefully observe, think freely rediscover forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY
    Lol. Yeah, sounds pretty sane alright!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    I looked in a few bookshops in town a few years back and managed to find just one single piece of creationist agitprop............

    I'm happy to see that things have improved since then!

    ....SO you believe in 'self-censorsip' by bookstores of books that you don't like.......in this case Creation Science books!!!

    ......how very 'liberal' of you, Robin!!!!
    robindch wrote: »
    The owner of the bookshop told me that he was embarrassed it was there because it made religion look really dumb.

    .......how very sensitive of him/her......

    .......and did you ever come across a bookshop owner whose religious scruples were 'embarassed' by having pornographic material on their 'top shelves'???


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    A newsletter from the [Flat Earth] society gives some insight into Johnson's thinking:
    Aim: To carefully observe, think freely rediscover forgotten fact and oppose theoretical dogmatic assumptions. To help establish the United States...of the world on this flat earth. Replace the science religion...with SANITY
    Lol. Yeah, sounds pretty sane alright!

    Sounds exactly like JC and Wolfsbane.

    I wonder if Wolfsbane's theory on the unfair censorship of challenging science by the scientific community extends to the Flat Earthers' claims. :rolleyes:

    By the way in case anyone was wonder the Flat Earth Society is not a piss take. These people genuinely believe that Earth is flat and that both the Bible and the scientific evidence supports that position

    Sounds awfully familiar
    :pac::pac:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    ....SO you believe in the 'banning' of books that you don't like.......in this case ONLY Creation Science books!!!
    As usual, logic deserted you the moment you put finger to keyboard :):):)

    Of course, I didn't say any such thing. For somebody who places such total trust in your ability to read and interpret difficult texts, you display a weird inability to read and interpret my easy ones!

    I'm of course laughing at the fact that there's no discernible market for creationist claptrap in this country, and even the religious marketers themselves -- no strangers to selling nonsense -- regard it as infra dig.

    *cool*!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    As usual, logic deserted you the moment you put finger to keyboard :):):)

    Of course, I didn't say any such thing. For somebody who places such total trust in your ability to read and interpret difficult texts, you display a weird inability to read and interpret my easy ones!

    I'm of course laughing at the fact that there's no discernible market for creationist claptrap in this country, and even the religious marketers themselves -- no strangers to selling nonsense -- regard it as infra dig.

    *cool*!

    .......I can confirm that there is a very healthy market in Ireland for high quality Creation Science books and audiovisual media. The sales are mostly direct via the internet as well as through the growing network of Irish Christian bookshops.

    ....and therefore Creation Science DOESN'T need the mainstream bookshops!!!

    Your statements have confirmed the deep resistance that exists against Creation Science .......and YOU have provided 'the trousers as well as the hat' in confirmation of the evidence which Wolfsbane's links eloquently provide in this regard!!!

    Thanks Robin........I couldn't have proven it better myself!!!!:eek::D


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wicknight wrote: »
    These people genuinely believe that Earth is flat and that both the Bible and the scientific evidence supports that position.
    Interestingly, Theisic Evolutionists ALSO believe that both the Bible and the scientific evidence supports their position!!!!:D

    Wicknight wrote: »
    By the way in case anyone was wonder the Flat Earth Society is not a piss take. These people genuinely believe that Earth is flat and that both the Bible and the scientific evidence supports that position

    Sounds awfully familiar
    :pac::pac:

    I'm sure the Flat Earth Hypothesis "sounds awfully familiar" ....to Evolutionists......given that BOTH hypotheses are severely 'evidentially challenged'.....and they BOTH can be disproven by simple means!!!!

    The Flat Earth Hypothesis can be disproven by directly measuring the curvature of the Earth ...by simultanously measuring the angle of the Sun at two points on the Earth's Surface.......
    .......and the Evolutionist Hypothesis that 'muck spontaneously evolved into Man' can be disproven by the fact that muck has NEVER been observed to spontaneously turn into anything.....other than MORE muck!!!!:eek::pac:banghead.gif

    ...and if you STILL believe in a Flat Earth and Evolution, could I suggest that you take a ride on the Space Shuttle and look DOWN...........and THEN try thinking about how long it takes something that is dead to spontanously spring back to life again!!!banghead.gif


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,845 ✭✭✭2Scoops


    J C wrote: »
    ........I couldn't have proven it

    True.:pac:


This discussion has been closed.
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