The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

What exactly is your assessment of the motives of killers actually worth? Nothing at all.

....it isn't MY assessment that counts.....it their own statements that they were motivated by a belief in Evolution to carry out the killings that is very worrying....perhaps schools DO need to 'teach the controversy'....and FAST!!!

.....to prevent repeat attacks!!!!

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

....so are you saying that having your gonads irridated will produce 'improved' children????

....could I tell you, as gently as I possibly can, that testicular cancer and/or sterility will be the likely result!!!!!:eek:

lol :pac:

some times JC I think you are simply someone playing out a really really long joke, a satire as it were, of what a dumb Creationist is like. And we all fall for it :pac:

if that is the case it certainly is a dedicated portal, worth of some form of online comedy Oscar.

J C

robindch wrote: »

Seriously, JC, stick to biology. Being hopelessly wrong everywhere else too doesn't do much for your claim to be intelligently designed

.....I just love you all......you are so predictable, at this stage........
.....anyway, PLEASE be Saved before it is too late!!!!

.....this thread has given me some insight into how Jesus must feel about the stubborn refusal of most people to believe on Him and be Saved!!!

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I asked you what the difference in the set up was. They both have an intelligently designed hardware and designed software. But the subject simulated in naturalistic in one case and not so in the other. So what is the difference between these?

....and I told you that the difference between simulating weather and simulating evolution....is that weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T....its the difference between simulating weather and simulating a perpetual motion machine!!!:pac::):D

....any Christians on the Christianity Forum?????

....if there are.....ye are all staying very quiet.....

....and hello to the Guidestones People.....how are you all this fine day???
....Jesus died to Save you too!!!

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T.

J C wrote: »

weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T

You say this, yet you have previously stated that evolution does happen, at times rapidly, albeit only in 'kinds'. Make up your mind.

J C wrote: »

....any Christians on the Christianity Forum?????

....if there are.....ye are all staying very quiet.....

Yeah there's loads. They generally post in other threads and stay away from the 'crazy thread' as the sometimes refer to it as.

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

....and I told you that the difference between simulating weather and simulating evolution....is that weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T....its the difference between simulating weather and simulating a perpetual motion machine!!!:pac::):D

No, that is a lie (I feel pretty confident I can say that since I can quote back what JC originally claimed). That isn't what you claimed, I can quote you back what you actually did claim.

You claimed that the computer simulations of evolution with demonstrated your claims of evolution to be wrong were effected by the fact that the computer program itself was created by intelligence. The results must be a result of Intelligent design because the computer program was intelligently designed, and as such the results of the computer do not demonstrate how evolution could do these things in nature.

I appreciate that admitting you were wrong is not the easiest, so we will all just quietly assuming you now appreciate that evolution can and is modeled using computers, and that these simulations have demonstrated that evolution can and does produce the things you claim it cant

Galvasean

J C telling porky pies on this thread???? No way! :eek:

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

You say this, yet you have previously stated that evolution does happen, at times rapidly, albeit only in 'kinds'. Make up your mind.

....I am using the word 'Evolution' in the sense of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution throughout!!!!

....and the difference between Evolution within Kinds and 'Molecules to Man' Evolution is the differece between running a flight simuator on a Computer ....and claiming that Windows XP will run on an Abacus !!!!:D

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
....any Christians on the Christianity Forum?????

....if there are.....ye are all staying very quiet.....


Galvasean
Yeah there's loads. They generally post in other threads and stay away from the 'crazy thread' as the sometimes refer to it as.

....so they prefer to be in a 'mutual admiration society'....rather than defend their Faith to anybody who challenges it!!!!:)
.....they're behaving like the Apostles BEFORE the descent of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost!!!!!:D

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

....so they prefer to be in a 'mutual admiration society'....rather than defend their Faith to anybody who challenges it!!!!:)

No, they're just not living in psycho cookoo land.

The 6 day Creationist is a bit like the deranged uncle whom the other members of the Christian family are a bit embarrassed to be related to.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
....and I told you that the difference between simulating weather and simulating evolution....is that weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T....its the difference between simulating weather and simulating a perpetual motion machine!!!


Wicknight
You claimed that the computer simulations of evolution with demonstrated your claims of evolution to be wrong were effected by the fact that the computer program itself was created by intelligence. The results must be a result of Intelligent design because the computer program was intelligently designed, and as such the results of the computer do not demonstrate how evolution could do these things in nature.

.....that AS WELL!!!!:pac::):D

.....thanks for reminding me!!!:D

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

No, they're just not living in psycho cookoo land.

The 6 day Creationist is a bit like the deranged uncle whom the other members of the Christian family are a bit embarrassed to be related to.

.....my point is still valid....
......they prefer to be in a 'mutual admiration society'....rather than defend their Faith to anybody (including me) who challenges it!!!!:pac::):D

....WHERE are they and what kind of Christians are they ANYWAY .....it is VERY strange that they have an ATHEIST as their spokesman....on a Christianity Thread!!!:eek::eek::D

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

.....so tell me....do you know of ANY instance where Chrstian students have shot up their school and deliberately targetted Atheist students there??

Is there any evidence that the Columbine or other high school shootings were motivated by anti-religion? Can't find anything to support that. And weren't violent videogames to blame?? :rolleyes: Anyway, to say they 'targetted' Christian students is quite disingenuous considering everyone in that school was Christian.

And on behalf of my fellow guidestone brethren, the Christian cult of the Rosy Cross, hello and, yes, we are watching this thread... with Jesus.

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

....I am using the word 'Evolution' in the sense of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution throughout!!!

Then you are being dishonest. Evolution does not go from molecules to man. It goes from the first self-replicating life to man.

J C wrote: »

....and I told you that the difference between simulating weather and simulating evolution....is that weather happens....and Evolution DOESN'T....its the difference between simulating weather and simulating a perpetual motion machine!!!:pac::):D

That isn't what I asked you. I asked whether there were any difference in the set-up of the simulation aside from the subject. As I already stated, a simulation of a perpetual motion machine will fail unless we remove some of the laws of physics. Yet the weather simulation and evolution simulation work perfectly with all the laws intact.

J C wrote: »

....it isn't MY assessment that counts.....it their own statements that they were motivated by a belief in Evolution to carry out the killings that is very worrying....perhaps schools DO need to 'teach the controversy'....and FAST!!!

.....to prevent repeat attacks!!!!

I'm asking you politely to stop this line of argument. All it does is bring us to pointing at various atrocities and people's stated religious or irreligious reasons for doing so. I don't think it is a very nice tactic in either case and I really don't think it is very fair to drag up such a recent tragedy as just another tool in your argument.

J C wrote: »

AtomicHorror:
1. Because it is deleterious in most cases
2. Because only mutations in the germ line (our sex cells) are relevant to evolution. Undergoing any other mutagenesis has no likely benefit

....so are you saying that having your gonads irridated will produce 'improved' children????

Refer to point 1 above.

J C wrote: »

....could I tell you, as gently as I possibly can, that testicular cancer and/or sterility will be the likely result!!!!!:eek:

I'm not interested in having another one of these conversations. I've explained this three times now. If you're having real difficulty understanding then there is nothing I can do to help you.

AtomicHorror

2Scoops wrote: »

Is there any evidence that the Columbine or other high school shootings were motivated by anti-religion? Can't find anything to support that. And weren't violent videogames to blame?? :rolleyes: Anyway, to say they 'targetted' Christian students is quite disingenuous considering everyone in that school was Christian.

The video game "Doom" and the musician Marilyn Manson were the two most popular cited causes of the massacre at the time. In the first case it was alleged that one of the perpetrators had named his shotgun after the shotgun from Doom. When it was pointed out that no such naming existed in the game, the media rather failed to pick that point up. In the second case it was later said that the killers did not actually like Marilyn Manson's music. The general reaction was against goth culture. Ultimately the cause was probably extreme bullying (including misplaced homophobia) combined with a number of social and psychological issues that the boys were facing.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

Is there any evidence that the Columbine or other high school shootings were motivated by anti-religion? Can't find anything to support that. And weren't violent videogames to blame?? :rolleyes: Anyway, to say they 'targetted' Christian students is quite disingenuous considering everyone in that school was Christian.

And on behalf of my fellow guidestone brethren, the Christian cult of the Rosy Cross, hello and, yes, we are watching this thread... with Jesus.

....when somebody holds a gun to your head and asks if you believe in God....and kills you when you answer in the affirmative....I'd say that was 'anti-religion'.....wouldn't you?

....Columbine High School obviously contains members of all religions and none within it's student ranks.

......and since you claim to be their spokesman, could you please tell us how your "fellow guidestone brethren and the Christian cult of the Rosy Cross" plan to achieve a reduction of 90% in the Human population????

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

The video game "Doom" and the musician Marilyn Manson were the two most popular cited causes of the massacre at the time. In the first case it was alleged that one of the perpetrators had named his shotgun after the shotgun from Doom. When it was pointed out that no such naming existed in the game, the media rather failed to pick that point up. In the second case it was later said that the killers did not actually like Marilyn Manson's music. The general reaction was against goth culture. Ultimately the cause was probably extreme bullying (including misplaced homophobia) combined with a number of social and psychological issues that the boys were facing.

....so video games or Marilyn Manson WEREN'T the cause.....

.....and HOW does 'misplaced homophobia' result in the death of two Christian WOMEN???!!

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

....WHERE are they and what kind of Christians are they ANYWAY

MAYBE, just maybe they have better things to do than have an endless discussion with someone who won't be swayed no matter how often he is proven wrong?

J C wrote: »

....when somebody sticks a gun in your face and asks if you believe in God....and blows your head off when you answer in the affirmative....I'd say that was 'anti-christian'.....wouldn't you?

So Christians are the only ones who believe in God now?
Would they have been let go had they said, "No, I'm an atheist?" Doubtful.

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Then you are being dishonest. Evolution does not go from molecules to man. It goes from the first self-replicating life to man.

....whatever!!!:)

AtomicHorror wrote: »

That isn't what I asked you. I asked whether there were any difference in the set-up of the simulation aside from the subject. As I already stated, a simulation of a perpetual motion machine will fail unless we remove some of the laws of physics. Yet the weather simulation and evolution simulation work perfectly with all the laws intact.

....and a computer simulation of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution will fail unless you incorporate intelligently designed programming and suspend the Laws of Thermodynamics and Biogenesis!!!!

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I'm asking you politely to stop this line of argument. All it does is bring us to pointing at various atrocities and people's stated religious or irreligious reasons for doing so. I don't think it is a very nice tactic in either case and I really don't think it is very fair to drag up such a recent tragedy as just another tool in your argument.

....it is a matter of life and death.....and won't go away.....just because we don't discuss it.
I'll try to be as polite as possible when discussing it.

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

....whatever!!!:)

Best. Rebuttal. EVER!

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

.....and HOW does 'misplaced homophobia' result in the death of two Christian WOMEN???!!

Not that it really matters but the story that the shooters specifically targeted Christians seems not to be accurate.

For example the story that they asked one of the girls, Rachel Scott "Do you believe in God", to which she was supposed to reply "You know I do" before she was shot seems most likely to be not true. Medical reports suggest that Scott died instantly from the gun shot wounds, and wasn't wounded and trying to escape when the shooters were supposed to have asked her this question.

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

MAYBE, just maybe they (the Christians) have better things to do than have an endless discussion with someone who won't be swayed no matter how often he is proven wrong?

....they certainly don't have the tenacity or 'staying power' of the Atheists on this thread!!!!

Galvasean wrote: »

So Christians are the only ones who believe in God now?
Would they have been let go had they said, "No, I'm an atheist?" Doubtful.

....WHY did they ask a known Christian woman if she believed in God then???

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

Best. Rebuttal. EVER!

......thanks!!!:)

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

....and a computer simulation of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution will fail unless you incorporate intelligently designed programming and suspend the Laws of Thermodynamics and Biogenesis!!!!

Except they don't fail. That is the point. They demonstrate you are wrong

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

....WHY did they ask a known Christian woman if she believed in God then???

Who knows, maybe they taught they were doing a 'cool' Deathwish2 impersonation.
Charles Bronson: Do you believe in Jesus?
Bad guy: Yes!
Charles Bronson: Good, because you're about to meet him.

J C wrote: »

There is also apparently video footage of the killers mocking another victims Christian beliefs as well.

Apparently? I will take your word on this one as I'm sure no one here wants to look up such a video.
Has it been confirmed that they were systematically targeting Christians while letting those of different faith, or lack there of, go free?

nunshaw

Its to believe that god created man in his image gave his only son to die for us on the cross and that the ONLY way we can have everlasting life with him in heaven is to believe in him. It's to believe we are of God and for God and not for this world and what it stands for....

J C

Galvasean wrote: »

Who knows, maybe they taught they were doing a 'cool' Deathwish2 impersonation.
Charles Bronson: Do you believe in Jesus?
Bad guy: Yes!
Charles Bronson: Good, because you're about to meet him.



Apparently? I will take your word on this one as I'm sure no one here wants to look up such a video.
Has it been confirmed that they were systematically targeting Christians while letting those of different faith, or lack there of, go free?

....I don't know.

It was a very tragic event for EVERYBODY involved......and I suppose the Christian thing to do is to love and pray for EVERYONE invoved.

....it does raise a lot of unanswered questions though, about aspects of modern 'youth culture'.....
......things like violent video games, violent music lyrics and the effects that a belief in erroneous aspects of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution can have on the psyche of a thankfully very small number of individuals.

....as I have already said, maybe it is time to 'teach the contoversy'.....for the sake of everybody involved!!!

J C

Wicknight wrote: »

Except they don't fail. That is the point. They demonstrate you are wrong

....the point is that you can SIMULATE anything once you programme the computer to do the simulation....the screensaver on my computer will go on forever if I don't interrupt it....I could call it a simulation of a Perpetual Motion Machine......but a REAL Perpetual Motion Machine is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

.....ditto with SIMULATIONS of Evolution!!!:D

J C

nunshaw wrote: »

Its to believe that god created man in his image gave his only son to die for us on the cross and that the ONLY way we can have everlasting life with him in heaven is to believe in him. It's to believe we are of God and for God and not for this world and what it stands for....

.....we are in the World.....but not of the World.....and what a wonderful amazing World it is!!!!

....but it is only a paltry imitation of the World yet to come!!!!

....sounds like you're a Creationist!!!:D

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

....so video games or Marilyn Manson WEREN'T the cause.....

Of course not. Unless you are suggesting that these things can remove free will?

J C wrote: »

.....and HOW does 'misplaced homophobia' result in the death of two Christian WOMEN???!!

Seriously? Did you read my post? The bullying and homophobia was directed against the killers prior to the shootings. It was of course not the only cause.

J C wrote: »

AtomicHorror:Then you are being dishonest. Evolution does not go from molecules to man. It goes from the first self-replicating life to man.

....whatever!!!:)

That's pretty much the core of your argument in general isn't it? Fingers in your ears, pretending it's not happening. Good luck with that.

J C wrote: »

....and a computer simulation of 'Molecules to Man' Evolution will fail unless you incorporate intelligently designed programming and suspend the Laws of Thermodynamics and Biogenesis!!!!

But they don't fail. They work fine. As do our gravity simulations and weather simulations. The perpetual motion simulation does not work.

J C wrote: »

....the point is that you can SIMULATE anything once you programme the computer to do the simulation....the screensaver on my computer will go on forever if I don't interrupt it....I could call it a simulation of a Perpetual Motion Machine......but a REAL Perpetual Motion Machine is IMPOSSIBLE!!!!

.....ditto with SIMULATIONS of Evolution!!!:D

By that logic our weather simulations and gravity simulations are meaningless. So why do they accurately predict outcomes? What you are talking about is not simulation.

Once again though, this is not the point you were making. You've gone from claiming that the evolution simulations are proof of intelligent intervention to dismissing all simulations as meaningless.

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

AtomicHorror: I'm asking you politely to stop this line of argument. All it does is bring us to pointing at various atrocities and people's stated religious or irreligious reasons for doing so. I don't think it is a very nice tactic in either case and I really don't think it is very fair to drag up such a recent tragedy as just another tool in your argument.

....it is a matter of life and death.....and won't go away.....just because we don't discuss it.
I'll try to be as polite as possible when discussing it.

You'd rather we discuss anything but the science of evolution.

Well, I will not entertain any further discussion on the matter of the morality of any scientific theory and I would encourage the others to follow suit.