The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
......I thought you would like to hear what leading Evolutionists have to say about Evolution!!!!

AtomicHorror
If you genuinely think it important to do so then by all means continue.

...of course it is important......

.....and here are more words of wisdom from the great evolutionary scientist Dr. Niles Eldredge :-

"I needed to explain why evolution leaves an entirely different sort of pattern in the rock record than Darwin -- and his long string of successors, including many paleontologists -- had supposed. Reinventing Darwin (1995) p.97

"Scientists, being as a rule more or less human beings, passionately stick up for their ideas, their pet theories. It's up to someone else to show you are wrong." Reinventing Darwin (1995) p.221


.......and here are the views of Prof. Michael Egnor, Professor of Neurosurgery at Stony Brook Medical Centre....on the obvious Intelligent Design of Human Beings:-
"I am a professor of neurosurgery, I work and teach at a medical school, I do brain research, and in 20 years I’ve performed over 4000 brain operations.
I never use evolutionary biology in my work. Would I be a better surgeon if I assumed that the brain arose by random events? Of course not. Doctors are detectives. We look for patterns, and in the human body, patterns look very much like they were designed. Doctors know that, from the intricate structure of the human brain to the genetic code, our bodies show astonishing evidence of design. That’s why most doctors -- nearly two-thirds according to national polls -- don’t believe that human beings arose merely by chance and natural selection. Most doctors don’t accept evolutionary biology as an adequate explanation for life. Doctors see, first-hand, the design of life."

J C

.....and here is a further interesting observation from Prof. Michael Egnor:-

"Without using evolutionary theory, doctors and scientists have discovered vaccines (Jenner, in the 18th century, before Darwin was born), discovered that germs cause infectious diseases (Pasteur, in the 19th century, who ignored Darwin), discovered genes (Mendel, in the 19th century, who was a priest and not a supporter of Darwin’s theory), discovered antibiotics, and unraveled the secrets of the genetic code.
Heart, liver, and kidney transplants, new treatments for cancer and heart disease, and a host of life-saving advances in medicine have been developed without input from evolutionary biologists.
No Nobel prize in medicine has ever been awarded for work in evolutionary biology........

........So ‘Why would I want my doctor to have studied evolution?’ I wouldn’t. Evolutionary biology isn’t important to modern medicine. " Evolution News & Views March 9 2007

"

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

No Nobel prize in medicine has ever been awarded for work in evolutionary biology.

Bahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That would be like giving Christiano Ronaldo the basketballer of the year prize.

J C

....and here is a question for the Evolutionary Biologists on the thread ... posed by Prof. Michael Egnor :-
"How much new specified information can random variation and natural selection generate? Please note that my question starts with 'how much'- it's quantitative, and it's quantitative about information, not literature citations. I didn't ask 'how many papers can I generate when I go to PubMed and type 'gene duplication evolution'. I asked for a measurement of new specified information, empirically determined, the reference(s) in which this measurement was reported, and a thoughtful analysis as to whether this 'rate of acquisition' of new specified information by random heritable variation and natural selection can account for the net information measured in individuals of the species in which the measurement was made."

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

....God will find you.....if you will repent and believe on Jesus Christ.....just say :-
"I am an unworthy sinner and I come before you Jesus to confess my sin and repent of all my evil deeds of mind and body ....I believe that ONLY you, Jesus Christ, can Save me and I ask that in your loving mercy that you would Save me from eternal perdition right now".

If you have said that simple prayer ... and really meant it, you are Saved and I welcome you as a new Christian and a fellow brother in Jesus Christ.

You refuse to show me the creation science that could save me. You are a selfish, deeply unchristian man/woman.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

You refuse to show me the creation science that could save me. You are a selfish, deeply unchristian man/woman.

.....Creation Science WON'T Save you....and I CAN'T Save you!!!

.....only yourself and Jesus Christ can Save you!!!!

.....YOU must make the decision yourself to believe on Jesus Christ....and He will then surely Save you.

O Lord please open the eyes of 2Scoops to trust in you as his only hope for Salvation.

I would also ask any other Christians on the thread to join me in prayer that 2Scoops and his Evolutionist friends would repent and be Saved.

Galvasean

J C wrote: »

.....Creation Science WON'T Save you

It should try.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
.....Creation Science WON'T Save you

Galvasean
It should try.

....Creation Science CAN'T Save you....and I CAN'T Save you!!!

.....as I have said, only yourself and Jesus Christ can Save you!!!!

.....YOU must make the decision yourself to believe on Jesus Christ....and He will then surely Save you.

O Lord please open the eyes of Galvasean to trust in you as his only hope for Salvation.

Ac 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was usually made. And we sat down and spoke to the women who came together there.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia heard us, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God; whose heart the Lord opened, so that she attended to the things which were spoken by Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, she and her household, she begged us, saying, If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house and stay. And she constrained us.
16 And as we went to prayer, it happened that a certain girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much gain by divining.
17 The same followed Paul and us and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the Most High God, who are announcing to us the way of salvation.
18 And she did this many days. But being distressed, and turning to the demonic spirit, Paul said, I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her! And it came out in that hour.
19 And when her masters saw that the hope of their gain went out, having seized Paul and Silas, they dragged them to the market before the rulers.
20 And bringing them near to the judges, they said, These men, being Jews, are exceedingly troubling our city.
21 And they teach customs which are not lawful for us to receive nor to do, being Romans.
22 And the crowd rose up against them. And tearing off their clothes, the judges ordered them to be flogged.
23 And after laying on them many stripes, they threw them into prison, commanding the jailor to keep them safely;
24 who, having received such a command, thrust them into the inner prison and made their feet fast in the stocks.
25 And toward midnight Paul and Silas prayed and praised to God in a hymn. And the prisoners listened to them.
26 And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken. And immediately all the doors were opened and all the bonds were loosened.
27 And being awakened, and seeing the doors of the prison being open, drawing a sword, the jailer was about to kill himself, supposing that the prisoners had escaped.
28 But Paul called out with a loud voice, saying, Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.
29 Then asking for a light he rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas.
30 And leading them outside, he said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, and your household.
32 And they spoke the Word of the Lord to him, and to all who were in his household.
33 And taking them in that hour of the night, he washed from their stripes. And he was baptized, he and all his, immediately.
34 And bringing them up to the house, he set a table before them and rejoiced, believing in God with all his household.
35 And day coming, the judges sent the floggers, saying, Let those men go.
36 And the jailer spoke these words to Paul: The judges have sent to let you go. Now therefore depart, and go in peace.
37 But Paul said to them, Having beaten us publicly, men who are Romans and uncondemned, they threw us into prison. And now do they put us out secretly? No indeed! But coming themselves, let them bring us out.
38 And the floggers reported these words to the judges. And hearing that they were Romans, they were afraid.
39 And coming they begged them. And bringing them out, they asked them to depart out of the city.
40 And going out from the prison, they entered into the house of Lydia. And seeing the brothers, they comforted them and departed.

marco_polo

J C wrote: »

.....Creation Science WON'T Save you....and I CAN'T Save you!!!

.....only yourself and Jesus Christ can Save you!!!!

.....YOU must make the decision yourself to believe on Jesus Christ....and He will then surely Save you.

O Lord please open the eyes of 2Scoops to trust in you as his only hope for Salvation.

I would also ask any other Christians on the thread to join me in prayer that 2Scoops and his Evolutionist friends would repent and be Saved.

So if thats all thats needed why are creationists so desperate for validation?

J C

marco_polo wrote: »

So if thats all thats needed why are creationists so desperate for validation?

...we aren't desperate for validation as Christians......but as Scientists, we want the evidence for the origin of life to be objectively and scientifically evaluated.

.....and yes, becoming a Christian may look to be easy......but I have seen many people go into a cold sweat and refuse to make what looks like a simple commitment to Jesus Christ.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

...we aren't desperate for validation as Christians......but as Scientists, we want the evidence for the origin of life to be objectively and scientifically evaluated.

Without actually telling anyone what your secret evidence is??

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

Without actually telling anyone what your secret evidence is??

.....I've been as open as possible with you.....and I have given you plenty of evidence for Creation.....you don't need any more evidence from me......
......just look in the mirror and ask yourself if YOU an accident of random cosmic forces.....or do you look and behave as if you are Intelligently Designed????:)

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

.....I've been as open as possible with you.....and I have given you plenty of evidence for Creation.....you don't need any more evidence from me......

What evidence for creation are you talking about? Where is the science you claimed you conducted yourself?

J C

.....In the name of Jesus Christ I ask for Galvasean be saved.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

What evidence for creation are you talking about? Where is the science you claimed you conducted yourself?

....just have a look what I have said on the thread.........
..... and look in the mirror and ask yourself if YOU an accident of random cosmic forces.....or do you look and behave as if you are Intelligently Designed????:)

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

just read what I have said on the thread.........

I did. There were lots of quotes but no science. But you did mention that you conducted some creation science yourself and now you won't tell me what it is. Neither will you show me any creation science by others.

J C wrote: »

..... and look in the mirror and ask yourself if YOU an accident of random cosmic forces.....or do you look and behave as if you are Intelligently Designed????:)

I look like the sophisticated result of natural forces acting on living organisms over a long period of time. And the available evidence (which is not being concealed and hidden from me like yours) supports this.

Now if someone could show me new evidence that supports creation and disproves all of the available data we currently have showing creation is not as described in the Bible, then I would gladly change my mind. You have some of this important information but you won't tell me what it is.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

Now if someone could show me new evidence that supports creation and disproves all of the available data we currently have showing creation is not as described in the Bible, then I would gladly change my mind.

Mt 16:1 The Pharisees and the Sadducees came to Him, tempting Him. And they asked Him that He would show them a sign from Heaven.
2 He answered and said to them, When it is evening, you say, Fair weather; for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, Foul weather today; for the sky is red and gloomy. Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky, but you cannot see the signs of the times!
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. And there shall no sign be given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. And He left them and went away.

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

.....In the name of Jesus Christ I ask for Galvasean be saved.

how about instead of that you just define what a "Kind" is ... :rolleyes:

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

Mt 16:1 The Pharisees and the Sadducees came to Him, tempting Him. And they asked Him that He would show them a sign from Heaven.
2 He answered and said to them, When it is evening, you say, Fair weather; for the sky is red.
3 And in the morning, Foul weather today; for the sky is red and gloomy. Hypocrites! You can discern the face of the sky, but you cannot see the signs of the times!
4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign. And there shall no sign be given to it, except the sign of the prophet Jonah. And He left them and went away.

I'm not asking for a sign from heaven. I'm asking for one from Earth - creation science! You have some. Why are you withholding it, depriving people of the all the facts?

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

I look like the sophisticated result of natural forces acting on living organisms over a long period of time.

.....If you really do look like the result of natural forces acting over a long period of time....
......you must look and feel dreadful!!!!!:eek::D

......be still and know that Jesus Christ is Lord....and He wants to save you.

.....the 'God' of natural forces can only destroy you.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

.....you must look and feel dreadful!!!!!

......be still and know that Jesus Christ is Lord....and He wants to save you.

.....the 'God' of natural forces can only destroy you.

Teach the controversy! Tell me about your scientific evidence for creation!

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

I'm not asking for a sign from heaven. I'm asking for one from Earth - creation science! You have some. Why are you withholding it, depriving people of the all the facts?

....your sudden enthusiasm for Creation Science is commendable.....but all in it's own good time.

There is no urgency that you should learn Creation Science.....the only thing that is urgent is that you should be Saved.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

Teach the controversy! Tell me about your scientific evidence for creation!

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.
4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided between the light and the darkness.
5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be an expanse in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 And God called the expanse, Heavens. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the gathering together of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth tender sprouts (the herb seeding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself) upon the earth; and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth tender sprouts, the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed was in itself. And God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,
15 And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
16 And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars also.
17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarmers having a living soul; and let birds fly over the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.
21 And God created great sea-animals, and every living soul that creeps with which the waters swarmed after their kind; and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters of the seas and let the fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creepers, and its beasts of the earth after its kind; and it was so.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth after its kind, and cattle after their kind, and all creepers upon the earth after their kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold! I have given you every herb seeding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree seeding seed; to you it shall be for food.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeper on the earth which has in it a living soul shall be every green plant is for food; and it was so.
31 And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

....your sudden enthusiasm for Creation Science is commendable.....but all in it's own good time.

There is no urgency that you should learn Creation Science.....the only thing that is urgent is that you should be Saved.

What possible reason do you have to withhold this important information? Why are you stifling the propagation of creation science?

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form and empty. And darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light. And there was light.
4 And God saw the light that it was good. And God divided between the light and the darkness.
5 And God called the light, Day. And He called the darkness, Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6 And God said, Let there be an expanse in the middle of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7 And God made the expanse, and divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so.
8 And God called the expanse, Heavens. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
9 And God said, Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together to one place, and let the dry land appear; and it was so.
10 And God called the dry land, Earth. And He called the gathering together of the waters, Seas. And God saw that it was good.
11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth tender sprouts (the herb seeding seed and the fruit tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself) upon the earth; and it was so.
12 And the earth brought forth tender sprouts, the herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree producing fruit after its kind, whose seed was in itself. And God saw that it was good.
13 And the evening and the morning were the third day.
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to divide between the day and the night. And let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,
15 And let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth. And it was so.
16 And God made two great lights: the greater light to rule the day and the smaller light to rule the night, and the stars also.
17 And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 and to rule over the day and over the night; and to divide between the light and the darkness. And God saw that it was good.
19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
20 And God said, Let the waters swarm with swarmers having a living soul; and let birds fly over the earth on the face of the expanse of the heavens.
21 And God created great sea-animals, and every living soul that creeps with which the waters swarmed after their kind; and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.
22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters of the seas and let the fowl multiply in the earth.
23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after its kind, cattle, and creepers, and its beasts of the earth after its kind; and it was so.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth after its kind, and cattle after their kind, and all creepers upon the earth after their kind. And God saw that it was good.
26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.
27 And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him. He created them male and female.
28 And God blessed them. And God said to them, Be fruitful, and multiply and fill the earth, and subdue it. And have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heavens, and all animals that move upon the earth.
29 And God said, Behold! I have given you every herb seeding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree seeding seed; to you it shall be for food.
30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the heavens, and to every creeper on the earth which has in it a living soul shall be every green plant is for food; and it was so.
31 And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

No scientific data here. You must really hate creation science that you feel so compelled to hide it from public view...

J C

Wicknight wrote: »

how about instead of that you just define what a "Kind" is ... :rolleyes:

...for the umpteenth time, a Kind is a group of organisms that are directly descended from a Created Pair of organisms.

The first primary test of a Created Kind are all organisms that can interbreed with each other....even with infertile offspring.
The second primary test of a Created Kind are all organisms that can interbreed with an intermediate organism. For example, if Organism A cannot interbreed with Organism C, but both organism A and C can interbreed with Organism B then Organisms A, B and C are members of the one Created Kind.

.....and just like conventional Taxonomy, further organisms can be provisionally allocated to a particular Kind on the basis of morphology.......and increasingly today, DNA sequencing is being evaluated as a means of definitively allocating particular organisms (that don't meet either of the two primary tests) to particular Kinds.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

...for the umpteenth time, a Kind is a group of organisms that are directly descended from a Created Pair of organisms.

Hi J C, please share with us your findings resulting from the creation science you conducted.

J C

2Scoops wrote: »

No scientific data here. You must really hate creation science that you feel so compelled to hide it from public view...

.........I just love the Word of God......and I'm not hiding anything.....and if I start to repeat myself you will accuse me of spamming.

2Scoops

J C wrote: »

....I'm not hiding anything.....

You said you conducted some creation science but you won't disclose what it is or what you found. That is hiding something.

J C wrote: »

and if I start to repeat myself you will accuse me of spamming.

If you repeat yourself, yes. But I'm not asking you to repeat yourself; I'm asking that you provide the results from your scientific investigations into creationism, which you have not yet revealed, or creation science from others, which you have thus far not posted on this thread. No real opportunity for repeating yourself there, so I cannot possibly accuse you of spamming. :pac:

studiorat

J C wrote: »

.....when have I made a self-righteous comment on this thread????

Your constant insistance that being a CHRISTIAN is in some way important and makes you more special. You being saved is purely a social and georagphical fluke. If you were born in a Muslim country JC you would be banging on about baraka and the prophet Mohammad. I've been around long enough to spot a born again like yourself a mile away.

J C wrote: »

I have absolute compassion for other sinful Humans who are on the road to perdition.....because 'I too was that soldier'.....and I thought that either God didn't exist or if He did I didn't want to know Him....but all that changed when I was Saved.....what Amazing Grace that saved a wretch like me!!!:D:)

That's blatantly obvious JC only a reformed sinner would be as evangelical as yourself. Most normal people don't need to be saved, we're quite alright as we are. Saved from yourself most likely, well I'm happy for you that you've found something to focus your life on. But do yourself a favor and stop being influenced by dangerous fundamentalists who are doing no more than trying to impose their point of view into law and using your precious faith and it's creation myth as a vehicle for their ends.