The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

J C

monosharp wrote: »

Because I think education and learning, understanding the world we live in is a fantastic thing, good for all humanity.

JC's opinion is we should believe Jesus and his propaganda on blind faith. Which is extremely bad for all humanity.

....where have I ever said that anybody should have blind faith????

....the fact that God Created all life is objectively (i.e scientifically) verifiable..

....and the Materialists belief in the powers of muck and time to produce Man is actually the ultimate BLIND FAITH!!!!

...so if blind faith really is "extremely bad for all humanity" ... then Materialism should carry a public health warning!!!!:pac::):D:eek:

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Love this. Basically sums up the Creationist position. "Don't worry your head about those awkward little details, you know, the 99% of evidence that refutes our position entirely. If there's any sort of flaw, use it to disregard the evidence. If not, just claim it's a trick. No, don't worry. Instead, try to focus on the 1% of evidence that either vaguely supports our position or merely fails to directly falsify it. Big that up, but for heaven's sake don't subject it to the same analysis as the small details. And if you have trouble with any of this, just remember JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS JESUS.

....who was it who said "all you need is love ... love is all you need!!!"

...anyway, your diatribe just about sums up the 'evidentially challenged' evolutionist position!!!:pac::):D

It is also good that you have started calling on the only name by which you may be Saved .... all you need to do now is stop shouting at Him ...and believe on JESUS ... and you will be Saved!!!!

monosharp

J C wrote: »

....and could I gently point out that Atheistic Humanism is also a Religion!!!

I have no religion.

... and BTW what is 'evil' or even 'wrong' about my statement of fact that you are confusing Speciation using pre-existing design and genetic information (which did/does occur) ... with Spontaneous Evolution of pondslime to man via mistakes and time (which didn't/doesn't occur)!!!!

Well for one thing we aren't talking about the origin of life, we are talking about the diversity of life. Evolution is a theory of the diversity of life, NOT how it all started, that is called abiogenesis and has nothing to do with Darwin.

Speciation is evolution.

And lastly your opinion and description of abiogenesis is completely wrong and shows you know nothing about it in the first place.

monosharp

J C wrote: »

....where have I ever said that anybody should have blind faith????

....the fact that God Created all life is objectively (i.e scientifically) verifiable..

By definition, it is not.

Maybe theres a God, maybe not. But no one can prove it either way yet.

And if there is a God he is certainly not the God of the Bible. No supreme being would be so disappointing as Yaweh is.

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

AtomicHorror wrote:

Also loving J C's Razor or "the explanation with the fewest words is most often the truth."

How did I manage to steal the cookie out of that locked press when you had the key throughout the time of the delicious crunchy theft?

Is it:

A) I made an impression of the key while you were sleeping, then got a copy cut. Then I unlocked the press, took a cookie and locked it again.

Or:

I made my hand pass through the press door without breaking it.

Occam's Razor says A. J C's Razor says B. As with his arguments on evolution, we are forced to wonder; is this a bafflingly fundamental misunderstanding on J C's part or yet more Straw-Manning for Jesus?

....very DEEP AH...

....so DEEP that you risk drowning in your own 'thought processes'!!!!:pac::):D:eek:

Vague, uninspired mockery. If you don't understand people's posts you should either say so and seek clarification or simply post nothing at all. If you do understand then it would be far better that you refute the point rather than make yourself look this foolish.

Cut the crap. I say you've misunderstood or misrepresented the meaning of Occam's Razor. So why don't you either show me to be wrong or take it on the chin?

J C wrote: »

....who was it who said "all you need is love ... love is all you need!!!"

John Lennon. He also implored us to imagine the wonder of a world with no heaven, hell or religion. Were he a poster here he might also have added the pac emote and demented punctuation to his list.

J C wrote: »

anyway, your diatribe just about sums up the 'evidentially challenged' evolutionist position!!!:pac::):D

"I know you are, what am I?" You employ the sort of logic in your arguments that is rarely seen outside of a school yard. We can certainly talk about evidence again if you'd like. But the last time we did that you started taking very long holidays from this forum and never wanted to answer our questions when you were around. You're much more at home with shallow arguments and snide ad hominems, aren't you? Don't sweat the small stuff indeed. It'll only make you question everything, after all.

J C

monosharp wrote: »

By definition, it is not.

Maybe theres a God, maybe not. But no one can prove it either way yet.

And if there is a God he is certainly not the God of the Bible. No supreme being would be so disappointing as Yaweh is.

...why does Yaweh 'disappoint' you???

....as Ali G might say ... is it because He is God?:pac::):D

....and do you want to be your own God??!!!:)

J C

monosharp wrote: »

I have no religion.

...to have no religion is always a good starting position...
...anyway, I'm very glad that you are not signed up to some man-made religious idea like Atheistic Humanism!!!!:D

...so all you need to do now is go get a Saving FAITH ... in Jesus Christ and all will be well my son!!!!:D

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
... and BTW what is 'evil' or even 'wrong' about my statement of fact that you are confusing Speciation using pre-existing design and genetic information (which did/does occur) ... with Spontaneous Evolution of pondslime to man via mistakes and time (which didn't/doesn't occur)!!!!

monosharp
Well for one thing we aren't talking about the origin of life, we are talking about the diversity of life. Evolution is a theory of the diversity of life, NOT how it all started, that is called abiogenesis and has nothing to do with Darwin.

Speciation is evolution.

And lastly your opinion and description of abiogenesis is completely wrong and shows you know nothing about it in the first place.

The supposed progression of 'Pondslime to Man' IS Spontaneous Evolution...'Abiogenesis' is the equally unfounded notion that materialstic processes breathed life into Pondslime, in the first place!!!:D

... so you are confusing Speciation using pre-existing design and genetic information (which did/does occur) ... with Spontaneous Evolution of pondslime to man via mistakes and time (which didn't/doesn't occur)!!!!:pac::):D

monosharp

J C wrote: »

...why does Yaweh 'disappoint' you???

....as Ali G might say ... is it because He is God?:pac::):D
....and you would like to be your own God!!!:)

Because the God in the Bible is selfish, greedy, self important and a liar.

In the Old testament it lied to Adam & Eve about the apple, it thinks incest and rape (against women) is perfectly fine, it drowned women and children in the flood etc.

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
....who was it who said "all you need is love ... love is all you need!!!"

AtomicHorror
John Lennon. He also implored us to imagine the wonder of a world with no heaven, hell or religion. Were he a poster here he might also have added the pac emote and demented punctuation to his list.

...goes to prove that the Unsaved aren't always wrong about everything!!!!

...and BTW John Lennon was only trying to imagine that there was no Heaven and no Hell ... and thereby revealing that he actually knew that they existed!!!!:pac::):D

...John Lennon wouldn't be the first man to resist and deny God's sovereignty over him ... and he won't be the last!!!!:pac::):D

monosharp

J C wrote: »

...so all you need to do now is go get a Saving FAITH ... in Jesus Christ and all will be well my son!!!!D

I have no saving faith and don't need one. If i want one I'll choose something better like Buddhism.

The supposed progression of 'Pondslime to Man' IS Spontaneous Evolution...'Abiogenesis' is the equally unfounded notion that materialstic processes breathed life into Pondslime, in the first place!!!:D

Its not polite to talk about your ancestors like that.

... so you are confusing Speciation using pre-existing design and genetic information (which did/does occur) ... with Spontaneous Evolution of pondslime to man via mistakes and time (which didn't/doesn't occur)!!!!:pac::):D

Speciation like humans common ancestor with apes ?

Zombrex

J C wrote: »

....the fact that God Created all life is objectively (i.e scientifically) verifiable..

Please explain how you think that is scientifically verifiable so we may all point and laugh at you :rolleyes:

Fanny Cradock

monosharp wrote: »

Because the God in the Bible is selfish, greedy, self important and a liar.

In the Old testament it lied to Adam & Eve about the apple, it thinks incest and rape (against women) is perfectly fine, it drowned women and children in the flood etc.

Oh my! This wont do at all. I seem to remember that you have a history of these type of posts, monosharp. I can only assume that you have some sort of an impediment when it comes to remaining within the charter of this forum. If you want to badmouth God do it over in the A&A forum. Next time you try the same crap here you take a long holiday. OK?

monosharp

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Oh my! This wont do at all. I seem to remember that you have a history of these type of posts, monosharp. I can only assume that you have some sort of an impediment when it comes to remaining within the charter of this forum. If you want to badmouth God do it over in the A&A forum. Next time you try the same crap here you take a long holiday. OK?

What is wrong exactly with what I've said ?

In the Bible you can find incidents of everything I stated. Please note I did not call 'God' these things, I called the 'God of the Bible' these things because its there in writing in the book.

I'm not making it up, its right there in print.
You have a Bible ? Would you like me to point out where you can find these things ?

The Mad Hatter

J C? Wolfsbane? Up for a challenge?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdCSKb5tFTI

(Gotta say, I actually laughed out loud at some of QQQQQ's assertions.)

AtomicHorror

J C wrote: »

...goes to prove that the Unsaved aren't always wrong about everything!!!!

...and BTW John Lennon was only trying to imagine that there was no Heaven and no Hell ... and thereby revealing that he actually knew that they existed!!!!:pac::):D

...J L wouldn't be the first man to resist and deny God's sovereignty over him ... and he won't be the last!!!!:pac::):D

You quibble over the least important point I made and ignore everything else. Yet again. We're not here to discuss John Lennon's lyrics or his faith. Stop trying to change the subject. I say that you misunderstood or misrepresented the concept of Occam's Razor. I say that you are avoiding discussion of evidence in detail, implying it to be irrelevant whilst simultaneously suggesting that it supports you. That you react to my attempts at serious and in-depth discussion with mockery and evasion. What do you have to say?

J C

monosharp wrote: »

Because the God in the Bible is selfish, greedy, self important and a liar.

In the Old testament it lied to Adam & Eve about the apple, it thinks incest and rape (against women) is perfectly fine, it drowned women and children in the flood etc.

....you obviously have 'issues' (with God)!!!!!:D

....God is loving and Just .... and He is ENTITLED to be 'self-important' ... as the Creator and sustainer of the Universe!!!!

He isn't a liar, nor Greedy ... but He is a Jealous God pursuing justice against the Spiritually Depraved who hate Him!!!!

...and the only liar in the Garden of Eden was Satan ...

God is quite entitled to give life ... and to take it away!!!:cool:

J C

monosharp wrote: »

I have no saving faith and don't need one. If i want one I'll choose something better like Buddhism.

... Buddhism doesn't even claim to Save you!!!

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
The supposed progression of 'Pondslime to Man' IS Spontaneous Evolution...'Abiogenesis' is the equally unfounded notion that materialstic processes breathed life into Pondslime, in the first place!!!

monosharp
Its not polite to talk about your ancestors like that.

...I don't have any 'slimeballs' in my family tree!!!:pac::):D

....and if you think you are a monkey's cousin or a rat's melodian ... I would continue to take the tablets ... if I were you!!!:pac::):D

wrote:

monosharp
Speciation like humans common ancestor with apes ?

...unfortunately there is no evidence for such a belief ... but lack of evidence is no impediment to the vivid imaginings of an Evolutionist!!!:pac::D

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

You quibble over the least important point I made and ignore everything else. Yet again. We're not here to discuss John Lennon's lyrics or his faith. Stop trying to change the subject. I say that you misunderstood or misrepresented the concept of Occam's Razor. I say that you are avoiding discussion of evidence in detail, implying it to be irrelevant whilst simultaneously suggesting that it supports you. That you react to my attempts at serious and in-depth discussion with mockery and evasion. What do you have to say?

....well boo ... hoo!!!:eek::D

....stop whinging and take it like a man!!!!!:pac::):D

...when Materialists whip out Occam's Razor in debates they invariably end up metaphorically cutting their metaphorical throats with it!!!! :pac::D

....and it has happened here as well!!!

J C

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Don't sweat the small stuff indeed. It'll only make you question everything, after all.

..touche!!!!:pac::):D

Turtwig

J C wrote: »

....and if you think you are a monkey's cousin or a rat's melodian ... I would continue to take the tablets ...

Really JC you'd resort to taking pills,is it that hard to accept the truth?

Turtwig

wolfsbane wrote: »

It would be interesting to meet with one. I know of some Christians who claimed to have reached the state of sinless perfection - but on provocation they showed the same old sinful nature rising to the surface.

So if you meet any (of either persuasion), don't presume on their sanctity by stealing their cookies!

Well, you'll obviously have to check with folks in the buddhist thread, but afaik there are claims that some buddhists have reached the ultimate understanding and enlightenment - though it is very rare, it is possible:)

wolfsbane wrote: »

Malty_T said:

We do not know all His will, but all that we do know is absolutely binding on us. We may not pick and choose what suits us.

As the Christian matures, he becomes more aware of God's will, as he studies the Bible and is led of the Holy Spirit.


So a man who feels homosexuality is disgusting and immoral would be a psychopath if he decided his feeling was mere biological conditioning and rejected it on the grounds that he was a rational being?

Or one who felt the same about interracial marriage?

I have always considered homosexuality disgusting, and since becoming a Christian I also consider it immoral. As I haven't overridden my natural feelings, I'm not a psychopath on this account. What about all those who grew up feeling negative about homosexuality, but now accept it as a valid practice?

I grew up regarding interracial marriage negatively, but since becoming a Christian I view it as fine. So I am a psychopath, then? :eek:

I think you need to find out what a psychopath actually is before we continue on this discussion. Needless to say I could just as easily correct you, but then again, what good would that achieve? If I correct you, you may be inclined to just disagree and not see the error in your judgement. Not only that but my judgement is not free from error either, so by correcting you I may in fact be telling you another wrong : people learn better when they learn and debate among themselves

Perhaps, we should discuss what psychopathy actually is then

J C

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

J C? Wolfsbane? Up for a challenge?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdCSKb5tFTI

(Gotta say, I actually laughed out loud at some of QQQQQ's assertions.)

....a 'debate' between 'Tweedle Dum' and 'Tweedle Dee' if ever I saw one!!!!

...as for his challenge ... I have ALREADY presented the case for Creation and the case against Evolution REPEATEDLY and COMPREHENSIVELY on this thread!!!!

....and just because there are a few 'die-hard' Evolutionists out there whose anti-God agenda blinds them to the obvious invalidity of Evolution doesn't alter the fact that Spontaneous Evolution is a load of baloney!!!!!:pac::):D

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C

....and if you think you are a monkey's cousin or a rat's melodian ... I would continue to take the tablets ... if I were you!!!

Malty_T
Really JC you'd resort to taking pills,is it that hard to accept the truth?

...I DID qualify my remarks by suggesting that a course of psychotrophic drugs might be in order for people who believed that they were a monkey's cousin or a rat's melodian ... and as I believe in neither fairy tale ... I ALSO don't need said pills!!!!:pac::):D

Turtwig

J C wrote: »

Spontaneous Evolution is a load of baloney

Of course it is, the only question is whether Spontaneous Intelligent Design is even more so:eek::D??

How can one design something spontaneously?

Turtwig

J C wrote: »

...I DID qualify my remarks by suggesting that a course of psychotrophic drugs might be in order for people who believed that they were a monkey's cousin or a rat's melodian ... and as I believe in neither fairy tale ... I ALSO don't need said pills!!!!:pac::):D

Yeah, what I mean is that YOU if you were on OUR side would be taking pills thinking you are crazy instead of accepting the truth? Would you or would you not?

J C

Malty_T wrote: »

Well, you'll obviously have to check with folks in the buddhist thread, but afaik there are claims that some buddhists have reached the ultimate understanding and enlightenment - though it is very rare, it is possible:)

... could I (cheekily) suggest that IF they really had reached the ultimate in understanding and enlightenment ... they would give up on Karama and believe on Christ ... to Save them!!!!:pac::):D

J C

Malty_T wrote: »

Yeah, what I mean is that YOU if you were on side would be taking pills thinking you are crazy instead of accepting the truth? Would you or would you not?

...so do YOU believe that you ARE a rats melodian?:eek::cool::)

Turtwig

J C wrote: »

...so do YOU believe that you ARE a rats melodian?:eek::cool::)

I'll answer, when you answer : I asked first:P

Would you feel the need to take pills if you were on OUR side?

J C

wrote:

Originally Posted by J C
Spontaneous Evolution is a load of baloney

Malty_T
Of course it is, ?

...good ...I guess thats game, set and match to me then!!!

...why didn't you say that four years ago....and avoid creating a mega thread (that regularly threatens to melt down the boards server)!!!!:pac::D

wrote:

Malty_T
How can one design something spontaneously?

...can't be done ... must use Intelligence ... and that is why the ONLY two basic alternatives ARE:_

Spontaneous Evolution ... for the Anti-God lot.

...and Intelligent Design ... for the Theists!!!!!:pac::D

Turtwig

J C wrote: »

..can't be done

So again, just to clarify,
Can any process of life be spontaneous?