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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

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Comments

  • #18092
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    ...I am truthfully quoting a great Evolutionist academic
    Unfortunately you are not, and you know quite well that you are not.

    Doing the same kind of quote-mining to your last post, we can see that you wrote:
    JC wrote:
    there is no evidence [...] for Creation Science ... a bottomless 'mine' of [...] denial [...] !!!!
    There. That was easy! I hadn't realised that you'd come around!


  • #18093
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    J C wrote: »
    ...and we now know that the odds against the sequence for just one small specific protein being spontaneously generated are a million billion billlion billion bilion billion billion billion billion billlion billion bilion billion billion billion to one (10^132 to one)!!!:D:)

    It's a good thing that evolution does not require that to have happened and that no one except creationists have ever suggested otherwise


  • #18094
    wolfsbane
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,980 ✭✭✭wolfsbane


    monosharp said:
    links to evidence that the Earth is younger then 10,000 years.
    A site with further links:
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/get-answers/topic/young-age-evidence

    A general list:
    http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4005.asp

    A specific example:
    The Tertiary Stratigraphy Surrounding Americus, Georgia:
    Evidence in Support of the Young-Earth Flood Framework
    http://www.creationresearch.org/crsq/articles/42/42_2/tertiary_stratigraphy.


  • #18095
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    Again it is pointless to ask Wolfsbane for the "evidence" because he will provide tons of the stuff without any concern for the quality or consistency of it, evidence he himself admits most of the time he doesn't understand.

    Ask a flat Earther for evidence the Earth is flat they will give you tons of it as well.
    A hundred proofs the Earth is not a Globe

    Those opposed to Creationist propaganda shouldn't pretend that the Creationists have "no evidence", and thus make calls for them to present the evidence under the mistaken belief it will trump them, because what is or isn't evidence is largely in the eye of the beholder.

    To a Creationist like Wolfsbane, who isn't interested in actually examining the evidence itself, Creationists have tons of evidence for their position, because (again as the Flat Earth Society demonstrates) if you have no standards of quality or consistency, you can find evidence for pretty much anything.


  • #18096
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Unfortunately you are not, and you know quite well that you are not.

    Doing the same kind of quote-mining to your last post, we can see that you wrote:

    Originally Posted by JC
    there is no evidence [...] for Creation Science ... a bottomless 'mine' of [...] denial [...] !!!!
    .....you turned my words into a meaningless sentence that doesn't reflect what I said .... while all of my quotes from Evolutionists are true to what they were saying about different aspects of Evolution.

    ..for example, see my comments on the validity of my signature quote from Prof Stephen J Gould here:-

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62514182&postcount=18088


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  • #18097
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Those opposed to Creationist propaganda shouldn't pretend that the Creationists have "no evidence", and thus make calls for them to present the evidence under the mistaken belief it will trump them, because what is or isn't evidence is largely in the eye of the beholder.
    ...I have presented conclusive evidence in favour of Creation and against Evolution all over this thread - and these are are my latest postings on these subjects including quotes from Evolutionists on evolution:-

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62487354&postcount=18060

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62477391&postcount=18051

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62487573&postcount=18063

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62487638&postcount=18064

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62487681&postcount=18065

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62487757&postcount=18066


  • #18098
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    ...I have presented conclusive evidence in favour of Creation and against Evolution all over this thread - and these are are my latest postings on these subjects including quotes from Evolutionists on evolution:-

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18060

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18051

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18063

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18064

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18065

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showp...ostcount=18066
    __________________

    None of those links work, which sums up your "conclusive evidence" pretty well to be honest :rolleyes:


  • #18099
    postcynical
    Closed Accounts Posts: 341 ✭✭postcynical


    Wicknight wrote: »
    None of those links work, which sums up your "conclusive evidence" pretty well to be honest :rolleyes:

    Maybe you just can't see it:D

    Haven't followed this in a while bt there's an awful lot of 'argument to authority' going on. Do people not have their own original ideas or interpretations on this stuff?

    *edit - they work now, but it would require a miracle to make them interesting :-(


  • #18100
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wicknight wrote: »
    None of those links work, which sums up your "conclusive evidence" pretty well to be honest :rolleyes:
    ...must have been a spontaneous deleterious mutation!!:eek:

    ...I have applied intelligence and fixed it!!!:D

    ...try, try again and you will succeed at last ... but only if you are also applying intelligence!!!!!:D:eek:


  • #18101
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    postcynical wrote: »
    Maybe you just can't see it:D
    ...there is none so blind as he who will not see!!!:D:)
    postcynical wrote: »
    Haven't followed this in a while bt there's an awful lot of 'argument to authority' going on. Do people not have their own original ideas or interpretations on this stuff?

    *edit - they work now, but it would require a miracle to make them interesting :-(
    ...my quotes are not so much an appeal to authority as the use of quotes from Evolutionists for Evolutionists!!!

    ...and it is a fully legitimate debating tactic!!!!

    ....if you guys won't believe me WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE leading Evolutionists comments on different aspects of Evolution???


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  • #18102
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    ...there is none so blind as he who will not see!!!:D:)

    ...my quotes are not so much an appeal to authority as the use of quotes from Evolutionists for Evolutionists!!!

    ...and it is a fully legitimate debating tactic!!!!

    ....if you guys won't believe me WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE leading Evolutionists comments on different aspects of Evlolution???

    Well as Jesus Christ himself said, and I quote, "Evolution is a fact, and those who don't believe in it are idiots"

    Now JC, you don't have to believe me, but that is what Jesus said, so why do you not believe him?

    See, I can make up quotes as well! How fun!


  • #18103
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Well as Jesus Christ himself said, and I quote, "Evolution is a fact, and those who don't believe in it are idiots"

    Now JC, you don't have to believe me, but that is what Jesus said, so why do you not believe him?

    See, I can make up quotes as well! How fun!
    ...yes YOU are making up the above quote from Jesus and it is something that he NEVER said ... while I am truthfully and directly quoting these leading Evolutionists from their own writings (including full referencing, that allows you to independently check out the quotes) !!!!:eek:

    ...and you guys are in such denial that you don't seem to know the difference!!!:eek::D:)


  • #18104
    stevejazzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,247 ✭✭✭stevejazzx


    I remember Scofflaws post about turbo evolution farms where chickens became an entire new species over a couple of generations...and JC was looked especially desperate. I remember Wolfsbanes crazy accusation that evolution was invented by atheists. The thread looked very much over..but it goes on and on and painfully so. At this stage with 440,000 views I think it's serving as nothing other than a stage for the delirious creationists for whom cold hard indisputable evidence is a conspiracy involving the entire scientific community.


  • #18105
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    stevejazzx wrote: »
    I remember Scofflaws post about turbo evolution farms where chickens became an entire new species over a couple of generations...and JC was looked especially desperate. I remember Wolfsbanes crazy accusation that evolution was invented by atheists. The thread looked very much over..but it goes on and on and painfully so. At this stage with 440,000 views I think it's serving as nothing other than a stage for the delirious creationists for whom cold hard indisputable evidence is a conspiracy involving the entire scientific community.
    ...ironically, ALL of the cold hard indisputable evidence supports Creation and denies Evolution...

    ...and the 'turbo Chickens' are still er ...CHICKENS!!!:eek:

    ...and is your sig indicating that Basil and Manuel were a pair of hapless EVOLUTIONISTS ... trying to vainly find evidence for it???!!!!:D:eek:


  • #18106
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    J C wrote:
    .....you turned my words into a meaningless sentence that doesn't reflect what I said .... while all of my quotes from Evolutionists are true to what they were saying about different aspects of Evolution.

    ..for example, see my comments on the validity of my signature quote from Prof Stephen J Gould here:-

    Your quotes from Evolutionists are quote mined rubbish as everyone knows.

    Stephen Jay Gould on intermediate forms
    "The fossil record with its abrupt transitions offers no support for gradual change. All paleontologists know that the fossil record contains precious little in the way of intermediate forms; transitions between major groups are characteristically abrupt"

    The context that immediately follows demonstrates that this view is articulated only in order to reject it:

    "Although I reject this argument (for reasons discussed in ["The Episodic Nature of Evolutionary Change"]), let us grant the traditional escape and ask a different question."

    Gould was scathing on such misleading quotations:

    "Since we proposed punctuated equilibria to explain trends, it is infuriating to be quoted again and again by creationists -- whether through design or stupidity, I do not know -- as admitting that the fossil record includes no transitional forms. The punctuations occur at the level of species; directional trends (on the staircase model) are rife at the higher level of transitions within major groups"


  • #18107
    stevejazzx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,247 ✭✭✭stevejazzx


    J C wrote: »
    ...ironically, ALL of the cold hard indisputable evidence supports Creation and denies Evolution...

    ...and the 'turbo Chickens' are still er ...CHICKENS!!!:eek:

    ...and is your sig indicating that Basil and Manuel were hapless EVOLUTIONISTS ... trying to vainly find evidence for it???!!!!:D



    You're wrong.


  • #18108
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    J C wrote: »
    .....you turned my words into a meaningless sentence that doesn't reflect what I said
    JC, I didn't change a word of what you said!!
    J C wrote: »
    there is none so blind as he who will not see!!!
    I think that creationists would give the blind a run for anyone's money :p


  • #18109
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    J C wrote: »
    .....you turned my words into a meaningless sentence that doesn't reflect what I said ...

    :rolleyes:

    Thats exactly what you are doing with Evolutionist quotes.


  • #18110
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    monosharp wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Thats exactly what you are doing with Evolutionist quotes.

    It's really bizarre to see the Dawkins quote there. All he's saying is that his previous books were about evolution but didn't explicitly lay out the supporting evidence so he wrote this book to "close that gap" by unequivocally laying out the proof of evolution..........and J C is trying to use it as an admission of gaps in evolutionary theory :confused:


  • #18111
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    It's really bizarre to see the Dawkins quote there. All he's saying is that his previous books were about evolution but didn't explicitly lay out the supporting evidence so he wrote this book to "close that gap"..........and J C is trying to use it as an admission of gaps in evolutionary theory :confused:
    ...it's a very big GAP ... and he hasn't closed it at all in 'The Greatest Show on Earth' ...
    ....the quote is saying EXACTLY what he has said ... and it is silent on what evidence he may/may not have for evolution ... but his admission that in his previous books, the evidence for evolution itself was nowhere explicitly set out is indeed a very significant admission ... and certainly deserves closer scrutiny by everybody involved in the 'origins' issue!!!!


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  • #18112
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    monosharp wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    Thats exactly what you are doing with Evolutionist quotes.
    ...no it is not what I have done!!!

    ...the quotes are meaningful and true representations of what evolutionists are saying about different aspects of evolution ... these people still hold to Evolutionary Theory and I have made this clear ... but my quotes are a valid representation of their writings!!!


  • #18113
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    J C wrote: »
    ...no it is not what I have done!!!

    ...the quotes are meaningful and true representations of what evolutionists are saying about different aspects of evolution ... these people still hold to Evolutionary Theory and I have made this clear ... but my quotes are a valid representation of their writings!!!

    The Dawkins quote isn't even about aspects of evolution. It's about a gap in his writings and you are using the quote to suggest that there is a gap even though the purpose of the book you got it from is to close that gap, the gap in his writings, not any gap in evolution


  • #18114
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    The Dawkins quote is [....] about aspects of evolution. It's about [...] any gap in evolution

    I've J C'ed up the quote for you. Feel free to use it against me now


  • #18115
    monosharp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,981 ✭✭✭monosharp


    J C wrote: »
    ...the quotes are meaningful and true representations of what evolutionists are saying about different aspects of evolution ... these people still hold to Evolutionary Theory and I have made this clear ... but my quotes are a valid representation of their writings!!!

    No JC, they are not and moreover you know they are not. Its fraudulent lying and ignorance on a Ray Comfort scale.


  • #18116
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    monosharp wrote: »
    No JC, they are not and moreover you know they are not. Its fraudulent lying and ignorance on a Ray Comfort scale.

    I'd never heard the name Ray Comfort til now. He's banana man!

    I always thought that video was satire :eek:
    My opinion of humanity just went down a notch


    Love the sig btw


  • #18117
    Mark Hamill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,781 ✭✭✭Mark Hamill


    monosharp wrote: »
    No JC, they are not and moreover you know they are not. Its fraudulent lying and ignorance on a Ray Comfort scale.

    Thats breaking the ninth commandment, isn't it? I think JC may be going to hell.


  • #18118
    Zombrex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,848 ✭✭✭✭Zombrex


    J C wrote: »
    you turned my words into a meaningless sentence that doesn't reflect what I said

    :D:D:D:D:D:D

    Seriously, I just split my Coke ... oh the irony. Well played Robin, well played mate :)


  • #18119
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Wicknight wrote: »
    Well played
    How it's done, by Stephen Potter.


  • #18120
    33% God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 338 ✭✭33% God


    J C wrote: »
    ...I have presented conclusive evidence in favour of Creation and against Evolution all over this thread - and these are are my latest postings on these subjects including quotes from Evolutionists on evolution:-
    Quote mining is despicable, you wouldn't be pleased were it done to you.

    I have a question for you though, or for any other person who does not believe in the fact of evolution. How do you reconcile the fact that we have observed, numerous times, cases of speciation both in labs and in nature, with your rejection of evolution?


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  • #18121
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    33% God wrote: »
    Quote mining is despicable, you wouldn't be pleased were it done to you.

    I have a question for you though, or for any other person who does not believe in the fact of evolution. How do you reconcile the fact that we have observed, numerous times, cases of speciation both in labs and in nature, with your rejection of evolution?

    They deny that ever happened;)
    Ooh there's also the whole fancy division between something called mirco-evolution which apparently does happen and marco-evolution which apparently doesn't happen because the crocoduck hasn't been found yet.


This discussion has been closed.
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