The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 1)

Mark Hamill

Malty_T wrote: »

Yeah but

Shhhh! I just set up an account on a christian dating site and its my only selling point :pac:

Edit: Oh no! Malty_T, why? :pac:

Sam Vimes

Something you want to tell us Malty? :pac:

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=malty+love+men&num=1

Mark Hamill

man of faith wrote: »

The words 'TWIN' 'TOWERS' AND 'AIRPLANE' were found together and then 'TWIN' 'TOWERS' 'IT KNOCKED DOWN' 'TWICE' 'AIRPLANE'.

The word "airplane" is in the bible?

Turtwig

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The word "airplane" is in the bible?

No just the code;)

Mark Hamill

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Something you want to tell us Malty? :pac:

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=malty+love+men&num=1

We should take this over to the A&A forum, see who can come with the most ridiculous one

Sam Vimes

Mark Hamill wrote: »

We should take this over to the A&A forum, see who can come with the most ridiculous one

Indeed, but first we must prove islam to be the one true religion:

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=allah+god+not+yahweh&num=1

man of faith

Hey Monosharp, I even think if God materialised Himself and came and visited you and took you from one side of the universe to the other, you would still not believe that you had met God. You would just think that you had gone delusional or mad, and that everything you saw was a figment of your imagination. I'm not going to waste anymore time responding to you, your a lost cause to any random person on a forum. It's just an outlet to vent your anger and disbelief. You have so much anger and cynicysm. I just pray that you are not a lost cause to God.

Read my other posts about events predicted before they happened. Thats pretty much pointless though, because you will just write it off as lies. How about reading the Bible Code before ignorantly speculating based on your severly biased opinions.

My mission here is to prompt you atheists to think again before ruling out the existence of God, with some hope that my words may penetrate your hearts of stone.

How on earth do you derive that it is lies, dishonestly and delusion. As much as you desperately want these statements to be true, they are clearly not. This code has been rigourously tested by the most qualified to do so.

Read my other quotes if you want more info. Its a waste of time repeating myself to you.

And no joke that world leaders are capable of being stupid. This is why they have a huge supporting staff to assist them in intelligence, such as the CIA, FBI and The Pentagon. They would definitely not waste their time with Drosnin, if he was considered some crackpot. He would have been rigourously sussed out and tested to the nth degree before He would even be allowed within 50 metres of the President of the USA.

Even if the code revealed the event after it happened, this doesn't prove that the code is false. The facts are that the words are in there from text 3000 years old. This has withstood the most rigourous of scrutiny. Use your brain - do you honestly think that Harold Gans, a top code breaker and code maker for the United States Military and NSA would allow some concocted hoax to advise the presidents of the United States in military strategy. Your so deceived, your not even thinking straight!

Some of the predictions may be wrong or possibly someone could have taken heed of the pre warning and prevented it which explains why it didn't happen. This is very plausible to consider, as God would have put the warnings in there to save human lives such as your comment about the 2006 nuclear holocaust.
Who's to say a certain code is not to be applied to reveal some predictions, and another code combination is to be used to reveal others. Surely they must have to allow for some margin of error. The amount of predictions that were accurate make the findings more than credible.

Yitzhak Rabin assasination - discovered a year before it happenned.

Ooooo, you atheists would love to debunk the Bible code as it absolutely drops a nuke on all your beliefs about believing in nothing.

I'm quite certain that you will respond to this with a furious post, but I'll just forewarn you to save your time. I don't intend responding anymore to any of your comments, as i consider it to be a pure waste of my time and energy. Good day.

Flamed Diving

Quick! Someone call Fred Phelps!

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=god+loves+fags&num=1

Turtwig

The CIA, supposedly, employed 'telepaths' during the Cold War for a period of six months (methinks) shortly afterwards the program was axed, wonder if the telepaths knew too much:rolleyes:

Mark Hamill

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Indeed, but first we must prove islam to be the one true religion:

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=allah+god+not+yahweh&num=1

Unfortunately, I have a different interpretation:
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=mark+god+not+yahweh&num=1

EDIT: ahh crap! http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+god+not+yahweh&num=1

Sam Vimes

man of faith wrote: »

The facts are that the words are in there from text 3000 years old. This has withstood the most rigourous of scrutiny.

In the past five minutes I've got the code to prove that Darwin is right, that the bible is evil, that you personally are wrong, that Malty may be gay :pac:, that Islam is the one true religion and now that Homer and Marge are god:
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=homer+and+marge+god&num=1

How rigorous can this scrutiny have possibly been?

Turtwig

man of faith wrote: »

Ooooo, you atheists would love to debunk the Bible code as it absolutely drops a nuke on all your beliefs about believing in nothing.

Actually as Sam already pointed out the Bible code supports us:p

Edit : Dam you sam!!

Sam Vimes

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Unfortunately, I have a different interpretation:
http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=mark+god+not+yahweh&num=1

EDIT: ahh crap! http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+god+not+yahweh&num=1

Now bow before me lowly mortal

Flamed Diving

man of faith wrote: »

Hey Monosharp, I even think if God materialised Himself and came and visited you and took you from one side of the universe to the other, you would still not believe that you had met God. You would just think that you had gone delusional or mad, and that everything you saw was a figment of your imagination. I'm not going to waste anymore time responding to you, your a lost cause to any random person on a forum. It's just an outlet to vent your anger and disbelief. You have so much anger and cynicysm. I just pray that you are not a lost cause to God.

Read my other posts about events predicted before they happened. Thats pretty much pointless though, because you will just write it off as lies. How about reading the Bible Code before ignorantly speculating based on your severly biased opinions.

My mission here is to prompt you atheists to think again before ruling out the existence of God, with some hope that my words may penetrate your hearts of stone.

How on earth do you derive that it is lies, dishonestly and delusion. As much as you desperately want these statements to be true, they are clearly not. This code has been rigourously tested by the most qualified to do so.

Read my other quotes if you want more info. Its a waste of time repeating myself to you.

And no joke that world leaders are capable of being stupid. This is why they have a huge supporting staff to assist them in intelligence, such as the CIA, FBI and The Pentagon. They would definitely not waste their time with Drosnin, if he was considered some crackpot. He would have been rigourously sussed out and tested to the nth degree before He would even be allowed within 50 metres of the President of the USA.

Even if the code revealed the event after it happened, this doesn't prove that the code is false. The facts are that the words are in there from text 3000 years old. This has withstood the most rigourous of scrutiny. Use your brain - do you honestly think that Harold Gans, a top code breaker and code maker for the United States Military and NSA would allow some concocted hoax to advise the presidents of the United States in military strategy. Your so deceived, your not even thinking straight!

Some of the predictions may be wrong or possibly someone could have taken heed of the pre warning and prevented it which explains why it didn't happen. This is very plausible to consider, as God would have put the warnings in there to save human lives such as your comment about the 2006 nuclear holocaust.
Who's to say a certain code is not to be applied to reveal some predictions, and another code combination is to be used to reveal others. Surely they must have to allow for some margin of error. The amount of predictions that were accurate make the findings more than credible.

Yitzhak Rabin assasination - discovered a year before it happenned.

Ooooo, you atheists would love to debunk the Bible code as it absolutely drops a nuke on all your beliefs about believing in nothing.

I'm quite certain that you will respond to this with a furious post, but I'll just forewarn you to save your time. I don't intend responding anymore to any of your comments, as i consider it to be a pure waste of my time and energy. Good day.

LOL - how predictable. Using all the toys tools of the conspiracy theorist. Once defeated, he simply is reduced to arguments from incredulity and playing the victim card. I have seen it time and again, and the model never fails.

If only JC's model wasn't an endless feedback loop...

*sigh*

Turtwig

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Now bow before me lowly mortal

Hang on, we gotta check first....

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+vines+the+true+god&num=1

Dammit:mad:

Sam Vimes

Malty_T wrote: »

Hang on, we gotta check first....

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+vines+the+true+god&num=1

Dammit:mad:

Lucky for you you're one of the vast number of people who thinks my name is vines :P

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+vimes+the+true+god&num=1

I don't even get a look in

monosharp

man of faith wrote: »

Hey Monosharp, I even think if God materialised Himself and came and visited you and took you from one side of the universe to the other, you would still not believe that you had met God.

Of course I would, if he introduced himself and had a damn good explanation for 100-200 questions I have for him.

I'm not going to waste anymore time responding to you, your a lost cause to any random person on a forum.

Theres a word the locals use here. 앗싸! It means 'joy' :pac:

Read my other posts about events predicted before they happened.

I did, I also read analysis of the code and everyone here has debunked it as utter nonsense.

The author predicted a world holocaust in 2006. Why did that not occur ?

Thats pretty much pointless though, because you will just write it off as lies. How about reading the Bible Code before ignorantly speculating based on your severly biased opinions.

Because I have studied cryptography and I knew before reading anything about it or the critical analysis that it was complete rubbish.

You can find just as many accurate predictions in the pages of any fantasy novel.

How on earth do you derive that it is lies, dishonestly and delusion. As much as you desperately want these statements to be true, they are clearly not. This code has been rigourously tested by the most qualified to do so.

Why oh why have you refused to look at the evidence we have just shown you ?

You can find the words "Nazi won world war" using the bible code. Does that mean we need to rewrite history ?

Read my other quotes if you want more info. Its a waste of time repeating myself to you.

I wasted my time reading your quotes, I also wasted my time googling for the reality of those quotes and showing them to you and you ignored them.

They would definitely not waste their time with Drosnin, if he was considered some crackpot.

Drosnin has literally said "The bible code does not make predictions, it only makes probabilities". After he made several unsuccessful predictions.

This is a fact. Please explain it.

Even if the code revealed the event after it happened, this doesn't prove that the code is false. The facts are that the words are in there from text 3000 years old. This has withstood the most rigourous of scrutiny. Use your brain - do you honestly think that Harold Gans, a top code breaker and code maker for the United States Military and NSA would allow some concocted hoax to advise the presidents of the United States in military strategy. Your so deceived, your not even thinking straight!

Ah so this is why they invaded Iraq ?

Iraq WMD appeared in the bible code then ? :pac:

This is very plausible to consider, as God would have put the warnings in there to save human lives such as your comment about the 2006 nuclear holocaust.

Or he could just magic it to not happen.

Yitzhak Rabin assasination - discovered a year before it happenned.

Because it was such a shock he was targeted for assassination at the time ? :pac:

And you can find the same code in any book with a few hundred pages.

I mean, don't you understand what cryptography is ? Don't you understand the code that is being applied here ? You could find tomorrows lottery numbers in every book ever written if you have the right algorithm. You could find the prediction for new years All-Ireland final in the Bible or the Oxford dictionary.

Ooooo, you atheists would love to debunk the Bible code as it absolutely drops a nuke on all your beliefs about believing in nothing.

Its actually the most meaningless nonsense I've read in a long time. Its humerous.

Turtwig

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Lucky for you you're one of the vast number of people who thinks my name is vines :P

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=sam+vimes+the+true+god&num=1

I don't even get a look in

It is LORD Vines now....
Do NOT doubt yourself, because I don't doubt anything about you:p

man of faith

So is that the best you've got.
That doesn't debunk the Bible code, that simply shows that you can put letters into one passage of preselected text just like the test that can be done on all books. Try applying it to the whole Bible for starters and find information that is not just random garble. How can you prove that that little decoder is the same one they actually use for the Bible code. The answer to that is that you can't.

monosharp

http://www.biblecodewisdom.com/bibledefault.aspx?q=bertie+for+god&num=1

Nooooooooo

Turtwig

man of faith wrote: »

So is that the best you've got.
That doesn't debunk the Bible code, that simply shows that you can put letters into one passage of preselected text just like the test that can be done on all books. Try applying it to the whole Bible for starters and find information that is not just random garble. How can you prove that that little decoder is the same one they actually use for the Bible code. The answer to that is that you can't.

Well it uses the same algorithms, unless the Bible Code has some secret ultra powerful supernatural algorithm that the authors never bothered to mention, then they're using pretty much the same book and same codes.

monosharp

man of faith wrote: »

So is that the best you've got.
That doesn't debunk the Bible code, that simply shows that you can put letters into one passage of preselected text just like the test that can be done on all books. Try applying it to the whole Bible for starters and find information that is not just random garble. How can you prove that that little decoder is the same one they actually use for the Bible code. The answer to that is that you can't.

Because the author of the book TOLD us the method he used to get this nonsense. Its called ELS.

marco_polo

Malty_T wrote: »

Well it uses the same algorithms, unless the Bible Code has some secret ultra powerful supernatural algorithm that the authors never bothered to mention, then they're using pretty much the same book and same codes.

Nope

man of faith

You know, you are acting a real jerk Malty T.

Go ahead and mock, just remember that all your mocking won't steer the truth to your favour. The truth is the truth period. Despite what you want it to be.

How do you explain such case sensitive information about the event all within the same proximity and try using the actual Bible Code program to test the Code and not some dodgy tester you found on a 5 second google search. Please. Get with it!

If this is the same testing techniques you use to test other info then you should have grave concerns.

Turtwig

man of faith wrote: »

The truth is the truth period. Despite what you want it to be.

See we can agree on something .
Apologies if you think I'm ridiculing you, I'm simply pointing out what I see as the absurdity of the bible code. You need to show us it isn't and, frankly, pointing out mere coincidences isn't going to float anyone's boat.

marco_polo

man of faith wrote: »

How do you explain such case sensitive information about the event all within the same proximity

I believe it is known as the Texas sharpshooter fallacy

man of faith

You guys will maintain its absurdity with vigilance, regardless of what I say. Don't you think Harold Gans, a senior code breaker and maker from the NSA would have had even more scepticism than you. Apparantly he spent 440 hours on a mission to debunk it, but instead discovered it to be real. Google his name and see what comes up.
Apology accepted. No hard feelings. I'm not a stupid person and its very offensive to me when it appears I am being ridiculed. You haven't walked a mile in my moccasins, neither have I in yours. We will achieve a lot more in this debate if mutual respect is established, and not mudslinging insults. My apologies also if I have insulted any other ones intellect. If I have, then I have acted contrary to my Christian principles and I am sorry.

robindch

man of faith wrote: »

Don't you think Harold Gans, a senior code breaker and maker from the NSA would have had even more scepticism than you.

Apparently not.

Turtwig

man of faith wrote: »

You guys will maintain its absurdity with vigilance, regardless of what I say. Don't you think Harold Gans, a senior code breaker and maker from the NSA would have had even more scepticism than you. Apparantly he spent 440 hours on a mission to debunk it, but instead discovered it to be real. Google his name and see what comes up.
Apology accepted. No hard feelings. I'm not a stupid person and its very offensive to me when it appears I am being ridiculed. You haven't walked a mile in my moccasins, neither have I in yours. We will achieve a lot more in this debate if mutual respect is established, and not mudslinging insults. My apologies also if I have insulted any other ones intellect. If I have, then I have acted contrary to my Christian principles and I am sorry.

He was trying to be nice;)

Mr Gans wrote:

The book states that the codes in the Torah can be used to predict future events. This is absolutely unfounded. There is no scientific or mathematical basis for such a statement, and the reasoning used to come to such a conclusion in the book is logically flawed. While it is true that some historical events have been shown to be encoded in the Book of Genesis in certain configurations, it is absolutely not true that every similar configuration of "encoded" words necessarily represents a potential historical event. In fact, quite the opposite is true: most such configurations will be quite random and are expected to occur in any text of sufficient length.

Now, tell me is this guy claiming the code to be true??

His full statement

PUBLIC STATEMENT BY HAROLD GANS
SENIOR CRYPTOLOGIC MATHEMATICIAN, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, RETIRED.
PRESENTLY INDEPENDENT MATHEMATICAL CONSULTANT.
I have reviewed the book "The Bible Code" by M. Drosnin.

1. The book states that codes were found in the book of Genesis by Doron Witztum and Eliyahu Rips. An experiment was performed using scientific protocols specified by independent reviewers. The results of the experiment provided extremely strong statistical evidence for the existence of the encoding of great Jewish sages' names and dates of birth and death in the Hebrew text of the book of Genesis. This is all true.

2. The book states that I undertook an independent evaluation of the Witztum - Rips experiment. I duplicated their experiment and provided corroboration of their results. This is correct.

3. The book states that I also performed a new experiment, using the same methodology of Witztum and Rips, in which I found that the sages' names were also encoded in Genesis with their respective cities of birth and death. The statistical results obtained were even stronger than that obtained for the first experiment. This is all true.

4. The book also indicates that in spite of concerted efforts by many, no fatal mathematical flaw has been uncovered in the Witztum - Rips experiment. This too, is correct.

5. The book states that the codes in the Torah can be used to predict future events. This is absolutely unfounded. There is no scientific or mathematical basis for such a statement, and the reasoning used to come to such a conclusion in the book is logically flawed. While it is true that some historical events have been shown to be encoded in the Book of Genesis in certain configurations, it is absolutely not true that every similar configuration of "encoded" words necessarily represents a potential historical event. In fact, quite the opposite is true: most such configurations will be quite random and are expected to occur in any text of sufficient length.

Mr. Drosnin states that his "prediction" of the assasination of Prime Minister Rabin is "proof" that the "Bible Code" can be used to predict the future. A single success, regardless of how spectacular, or even several such "successful" predictions proves absolutely nothing unless the predictions are made and evaluated under carefully controlled conditions. Any respectable scientist knows that "anecdotal" evidence never proves anything.

6. A plethora of books have appeared over the last several months, concerning the codes. Unless the work is reviewed by qualified scientists or mathematicians, the reader accepts such a book at his own risk.

7. After exhaustive analysis, I have reached the conclusion that the only information that can be derived from the codes discovered in Genesis is that they exist, and the probability that they are mere coincidence is vanishingly small.
Harold Gans,
June 3, 1997

I'm loving how people get quoted mined in this thread

pts

man of faith wrote: »

You guys will maintain its absurdity with vigilance, regardless of what I say. Don't you think Harold Gans, a senior code breaker and maker from the NSA would have had even more scepticism than you. Apparantly he spent 440 hours on a mission to debunk it, but instead discovered it to be real. Google his name and see what comes up.
Apology accepted. No hard feelings. I'm not a stupid person and its very offensive to me when it appears I am being ridiculed. You haven't walked a mile in my moccasins, neither have I in yours. We will achieve a lot more in this debate if mutual respect is established, and not mudslinging insults. My apologies also if I have insulted any other ones intellect. If I have, then I have acted contrary to my Christian principles and I am sorry.

Can you not see that all we are doing is using the same algorithm they used to show you how easy it is to find messages in the Bible. You seem a bit highly strung IMHO, no need to get annoyed. If we are mistaken then show us how what we are doing is different from what the Bible code guys did.