GPS tracking of buses - NextBus.com

daymobrew

http://www.nextbus.com/

I found this link on someone's blog. The system uses GPS and phone networks to relay location data to a central computer which uses advanced computer modelling to track buses.
The real-time info can be accessed on the web and wirelessly (Internet-enabled phones and PDAs).

I know Dublin Bus have been experimenting with something similar on some routes for over 4 years.

John R

The new ticket issue machines that Dublin Bus are installing at present are the core of a fully integrated bus operation system that includes GPS tracking. Instead of relying on cell phone networks the communication path from bus to base will be by high speed RF link using the digital radio system that is currently used for voice only.

Details of the system are available at the manufacturer's website.

http://www.wayfarer.co.uk/index.htm

Zaph0d

Are these new ticket issue machines on the buses or on the street?

Bluetonic

Zaph0d wrote:

Are these new ticket issue machines on the buses or on the street?

You would imagine they are on the buses. Why would you put RF tracking on a static object?

Zaph0d

Bluetonic wrote:

You would imagine they are on the buses. Why would you put RF tracking on a static object?

You wouldn't. Sorry, I thought it might be passenger information displays on static ticket machines at bus stops. According to Dublin Bus web site they aim to deploy their passenger information system by 'early 2010'. Buck Rogers, beware.

To ask another question, why would you tightly couple two systems with separate functions (selling tickets and location tracking)?

John R

Zaph0d wrote:

You wouldn't. Sorry, I thought it might be passenger information displays on static ticket machines at bus stops. According to Dublin Bus web site they aim to deploy their passenger information system by 'early 2010'. Buck Rogers, beware.

To ask another question, why would you tightly couple two systems with separate functions (selling tickets and location tracking)?

Because they are not all that seperate.
If you look through the wayfarer website that I linked to you will see that it is a complete bus management system. Every part of the operation is linked together. Ticket sales, smart card/paper ticket reader and real-time validation, location tracking, destination display, driver reporting, usage and payment information collation.

Having everything integrated in the one system is the only sensible option. Passenger information is likely to be added in only when the rest of the system is up and running.

At the moment the machines are being installed along with all the hardware for smart card operation, about 1/3 of the fleet are done already. Once that is completed the next step will be for the RPA to roll out the smart card system but that seems to be up in the air at present. Dublin Bus might press ahead with the full implementation of their systems without the smart card but that would depend on politics/funding etc.

bk

Zaph0d wrote:

To ask another question, why would you tightly couple two systems with separate functions (selling tickets and location tracking)?

It is cheaper, the ticket machine is a relatively powerful computer (386 actually) and it already has all the software and hardware to do GPS, you just need to add the GPS antenae.

Otherwise you would have to buy a whole separate GPS setup.

Also the new ticket machines will take the new integrated transport smart cards (tickets), so it could do all sort of funky stuff in the future.

cdebru

Zaph0d wrote:

To ask another question, why would you tightly couple two systems with separate functions (selling tickets and location tracking)?

Because the ticket machine carries all the relevant information ie

Route
Duty
Driver
Departure Time
Number of Tickets sold

All very well knowing where a bus is But not much good to the controller if it cannot tell you what route it is wether it is running ahead or behind time
what duty it is and give you a good idea of how full or empty it is

For example how many Buses run down O'Connell St the controller could have 30 or more buses between trinity and Parnell Square the system would be useless if it just gave the fleet number if the controller could not instantly identify what respective routes the Buses were operating on and the other information

mackerski

Zaph0d wrote:

To ask another question, why would you tightly couple two systems with separate functions (selling tickets and location tracking)?

Some good reasons have already been given, but another one is that the ticket machines need to know the bus location in order to charge the correct fare to the destination.

Dermot

murphaph

Hopefully this technology will give impetus to the bus stop naming idea and on board announcements of next stops will become the norm.

shltter

mackerski wrote:

Some good reasons have already been given, but another one is that the ticket machines need to know the bus location in order to charge the correct fare to the destination.

Dermot

Unfortunately it is not as high tech as that the ticket machine is changed manually by the Driver

shltter

murphaph wrote:

Hopefully this technology will give impetus to the bus stop naming idea and on board announcements of next stops will become the norm.

Yes wont that be brilliant as your daily journey to work and back will now be broken by the announcement
Stillorgan rd then 50 metres further up the stillorgan rd then another 40 metres then another 40 metres for the 50 or 60 stops all the way to work

and hey you can look forward to it on the way home too and for the next 4 days after that

:rolleyes:

mackerski

shltter wrote:

Unfortunately it is not as high tech as that the ticket machine is changed manually by the Driver

That seems:

a) Daft
b) At odds with:

bk wrote:

the ticket machine is a relatively powerful computer (386 actually) and it already has all the software and hardware to do GPS, you just need to add the GPS antenae.

I'm prepared to believe that the machines are set manually as of today, since they presumably lack the GPS element. But I can't believe that there would be plans to leave it that way once the other tracking doodahs arrive.

Dermot

shltter

mackerski wrote:

That seems:

a) Daft
b) At odds with:



I'm prepared to believe that the machines are set manually as of today, since they presumably lack the GPS element. But I can't believe that there would be plans to leave it that way once the other tracking doodahs arrive.

Dermot

Yes it does seem daft but that is the way it is


the second quote you attributed to me incorrectly


I presume it would be possible in the future to have it automatically change stage when the GPS is added etc
It would make much more sense and take the element of human error out of the system
ie if the driver forgets to move the machine up or is unsure of the stage

But at the moment it is manually advanced by the driver and with DB I would not hold my breath or rely on them to do the common sense thing

murphaph

shltter wrote:

Yes wont that be brilliant as your daily journey to work and back will now be broken by the announcement
Stillorgan rd then 50 metres further up the stillorgan rd then another 40 metres then another 40 metres for the 50 or 60 stops all the way to work

and hey you can look forward to it on the way home too and for the next 4 days after that

:rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have been clearer. We need to cull a heck of a ot of bus stops from the network. There are way too many compared to continental norms. In this context, calling out the stops becomes more acceptable. That's how it's done in Munich and Cologne anyway and I like it. No peering out the window into the winter darkness wondering where the hell you are!

John R

Automated announcements are incredibly annoying everywhere they are used. On-board displays are a much better and less intrusive way of providing the information.

Zaph0d

I think it's madness for Dublin Bus to spend the next 5 years building a system designed around onboard ticket sales and validation, when onstreet machines offer so many benefits.

My local taxi company has gps tracking for all its cars. I doubt it took them 5-10 years to set it up.

mackerski

shltter wrote:

the second quote you attributed to me incorrectly

I sure did :eek: Sorry - fixed.

Dermot

murphaph

John R wrote:

Automated announcements are incredibly annoying everywhere they are used. On-board displays are a much better and less intrusive way of providing the information.

......but not a whole lot of use if you are blind.

bk

The current teicket machines don't have the GSM module AFAIK, however when they buy and install the module, having the GSM update the stop information for the driver and an inboard information system should be trivial and is planned.

Victor

murphaph wrote:

That's how it's done in Munich and Cologne anyway and I like it. No peering out the window into the winter darkness wondering where the hell you are!

Cologne has very few city busses - only where there isn't a tram line and in outlying villages for the most part. With a comparable population and size to Dublin, only a fraction of the land is built on.

murphaph

Victor wrote:

Cologne has very few city busses - only where there isn't a tram line and in outlying villages for the most part. With a comparable population and size to Dublin, only a fraction of the land is built on.

....indeed, the benefits of building up!

Metrobest

What galls me are the simple things DB does so poorly.

The ticket machines at Dublin Airport that don't work.
The confusing stage-based fare structure
The un-integrated routes
The random frequencies
Passengers standing in the rain at the terminus while the driver sits upstairs reading The Star

dowlingm

Cologne did have the advantage of enforced demolition in the mid-40s - can't get rid of Dublin's streets that way!

murphaph

To be honest, most german cities that were badly bombed were rebuilt to the original streetplan as property ownership was fiercely defended (german property owners have long since known the value of bricks and mortar over paper investments-that's one of the reasons why so few properties actually change hands in Germany). They also built most of their transport systems (including tunnels) much later, typically the 60's and 70's during the Wirtschaftswunder. They didn't have the money to build transport systems before then, of course trams have always had priority over cars, so it's in their psyche to have tram only streets and such like-in Ireland stuff like that is still seen as an attack on the motorist!

Gavin

John R wrote:

Automated announcements are incredibly annoying everywhere they are used. On-board displays are a much better and less intrusive way of providing the information.

They need both. Deaf & blind people.

Gav