Which barge?

cardude · 27-10-2005 11:24am #1

Folks,
I'm thinking of trading down at the moment to a barge. Looking at a 2l Omega,Maxima etc class for sub €3500.
The problem with the Omega is that, someone must have rounded up all of the decent spec cars and thrown them in a skip?? I would expect to be able to pick one up with (some of) a/c,climate,heated seats, leather etc but they seem very very scarce. I have seen one or two in the North so I may take the plunge.
Maxima's are easier get with full spec but I don't like them as much as the Omega(*just my personal taste). Maxima's ar quite bland and awkward lookin even compared to the Omega.
Other choices are the Saabs 900&9000(maybe a 900), Camry(blander than the Maxima), Rover 600/Accord(possibility), Safrane(maybe if I got it for free), XM or Alfa 164(definately not even for free!!). I dont like that age Merc nor do I like the E34 BMW 5 series.

Am I missing anything?? Any advice? All opinions welcome!!

prospect · 27-10-2005 12:01pm

Barge ???

If by this 'nickname' you mean you want a big fat heavy machine that handles, inspires and moves you like a 'coal transporter' in stagnent water, then the Omega & Maxima are indeed good choices.

Should you change your mind though, and you want a 'CAR' then I suggest you move the goalposts and check out the Saab, Alfa and Beemer.

It breaks down like this:
Pure Reliability:
Maxima & Camery

Comfort & Cruising:
Omega & Rover & Safrane & XM & Merc & Accord

Driving:
Alfa & BMW & Saab

But it sounds like you really want the Omega regardless. But IMHO it would be bottom of that list, holding hands with the maxima.

Ratchet · 27-10-2005 12:06pm

XM/Safrane and alfa would be out of my list.

I would look at
Accord
Maxima
Camry
Xedos

audi 100/A6

cardude · 27-10-2005 12:40pm

prospect wrote:

Barge ???

If by this 'nickname' you mean you want a big fat heavy machine that handles, inspires and moves you like a 'coal transporter' in stagnent water, then the Omega & Maxima are indeed good choices.

Should you change your mind though, and you want a 'CAR' then I suggest you move the goalposts and check out the Saab, Alfa and Beemer.

It breaks down like this:
Pure Reliability:
Maxima & Camery

Comfort & Cruising:
Omega & Rover & Safrane & XM & Merc & Accord

Driving:
Alfa & BMW & Saab

But it sounds like you really want the Omega regardless. But IMHO it would be bottom of that list, holding hands with the maxima.

I think 'barge' is a well used term at this stage - not a nickname I made up.
Being honest I think that the Alfa 164 is one of the ugliest cars ever made. I also dont like the E34 beemer(as I said above) but I will grant you that it is a better handler than the Omega. You could hardly class the mid-90's Saab as anyhting class leading in terms of driving imho.
I think you hit the nail on the head with you "Comfort & Cruising" section which is exactly what I was looking for i.e. a barge - and, oh, what do you know, thats exactly where you have placed the Omega!

BrianD3 · 27-10-2005 12:44pm

TBH most of these could be more trouble than they're worth. Even "reliable" ones like the Camry and Maxima are not going to be relaible if they are shagged and have been used as hackneys - which many of them will have been.

Also, people buy these big barges cheaply and think they're gettin a "lotta car for the money". But then they discover that they can't afford to service and maintain them. Something goes wrong and it doesn't get fixed, they flog it on to someone else, the sh1t gets driven out of the car, it's generally abused etc.

My advice - buy based on mileage, condition and service history rather than make. Extreme example - if you can find a low mileage, one owner, well maintained Lancia Thema that would be a better bet than 9/10 of the Saab 9000s, Camrys, Maximas etc. that you'll see

However, good luck finding a Thema in that condition.

<edit> here's a 93 Thema that is alleged to have had a "full restoration" on engine, body, interior. If this is true and there are receipts for the work then that could be an excellent buy but it's still very overpriced at 4,500. These cars are so obscure to the average punter that the seller has advertised it as an Integrale so that he'll get some interest

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=277248

Other barges that weren't on your list
Peugeot 605
Mazda Xedos
Mitsubishi Sigma
Volvo 850 or 940
Fiat Croma
Renault 25
Ford Scorpio or Granada
Honda Legend

Svenright · 27-10-2005 12:54pm

Hey,

Sounds like your up against it with the budget of 3.5k but i think going to the North is prob a good idea as the specs on their cars seem to be better than those down here. If it was my hard earned cash il would go for a 5series Beemer as they are comfy, reliable and hold their looks relatively well.

Best of luck with the car hunting!:)

commited · 27-10-2005 12:58pm

Rover 600s are excellent cars. DOnt go near the 800 though.

A camry will go on forever as will a Honda legend.

Basically go and do lots of test driving and see what you enjoy best!

cardude · 27-10-2005 1:08pm

Thanks for the opinions so far guys.

BrianD has touched on one of the worst aspects of buying cars in this "class" - a lot of them are ex-hackney. But I've bought and sold plenty cars so I do know what I'm looking at as regards cars.

To approach this from another side for a second, I am definately working out of this sort of a budget. I dont want to end up driving a Primera/Corolla etc. I've owned a lot of cars in the repmobile section so I'm looking for something different. Basically I want something comfortable with a few nice luxuries.

Maybe you could recommend something different from my list above. Keep in mind that I have no interest in anything above 2litres.
Thanks...

cardude · 27-10-2005 1:10pm

BrianD3 wrote:

However, good luck finding a Thema in that condition.
<edit> here's a 93 Thema that is alleged to have had a "full restoration" on engine, body, interior. If this is true and there are receipts for the work then that could be an excellent buy but it's still very overpriced at 4,500. These cars are so obscure to the average punter that the seller has advertised it as an Integrale so that he'll get some interest
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carid=277248

Cheers BrianD. Looks interesting if a bit overpriced. May be room for negotiation though.

Svenright · 27-10-2005 1:15pm

Did you think about a nice clean Audi A4???

Some good deals to be got if you take your time looking

unkel · 27-10-2005 1:26pm

cardude wrote:

Maybe you could recommend something different from my list above. Keep in mind that I have no interest in anything above 2litres.
Thanks...

The only one that springs to mind that hasn't yet been mentioned within that range is also uglier than any of the above: Ford Scorpio :eek:

cardude · 27-10-2005 2:03pm

unkel wrote:

The only one that springs to mind that hasn't yet been mentioned within that range is also uglier than any of the above: Ford Scorpio :eek:

the scorpio looks like that smiley you have on the quote!! Awful looking yoke alright!!

prospect · 27-10-2005 2:52pm

cardude wrote:

I think 'barge' is a well used term at this stage - not a nickname I made up.

Cool, I've never heard it myself, but it certainly beats the term 'Bus'. I hate when people use it;
"Thats a nice bus you've got there"

"Thats a CAR you dope" :mad:

So for comfort and cruising you would be doing well with the Omega. But I wouldn't eliminate Citroen, as they make wonderfully comfortable cars. Also what about an older Volvo?

alias no.9 · 27-10-2005 2:59pm

It's funny reading the good an bad comments about some of these cars considering the Saab 9000, Lancia Thema, Fiat Croma were all developed in a partnership between Saab and Fiat and the Alfa 164 was later based on the same platform and the Rover 800 is a rebodied Honda legend.

peasant · 27-10-2005 3:15pm

I can really recommend the Saab 9000.

ok ...its looks are a bit off. But for your 3.5k you can get a 96 /97 Anniversary model with all the bells and whistles (leather, walnut etc) sub 100 k miles and with service history (just keep looking).

The 2 Liter eco-turbo is lovely and pokey exactly where you need it and doesn't drink like a fish. The seats are the best in the business. It was the safest car of its period. The inside is incredably roomy as is the boot and the CSE hatch version is very practical as well.

Couldn't really say anything bad about it. The only reason why I sold mine was that it didn't really suit a 6 mile commute across country lanes ...still miss it, though.

ds20prefecture · 27-10-2005 3:28pm

Saab isn't a bad car at all. Nice interior.

You could do a lot worse than an XM, BTW.

cardude · 27-10-2005 3:32pm

peasant wrote:

I can really recommend the Saab 9000.

ok ...its looks are a bit off. But for your 3.5k you can get a 96 /97 Anniversary model with all the bells and whistles (leather, walnut etc) sub 100 k miles and with service history (just keep looking).

The 2 Liter eco-turbo is lovely and pokey exactly where you need it and doesn't drink like a fish. The seats are the best in the business. It was the safest car of its period. The inside is incredably roomy as is the boot and the CSE hatch version is very practical as well.

Couldn't really say anything bad about it. The only reason why I sold mine was that it didn't really suit a 6 mile commute across country lanes ...still miss it, though.

they are a bit "quirky" looking but are a nice car to drive. I wouldnt rule it out. One question though, do you get charged extra for insurance seeing as they have a turbo fitted?? I know I should be asking my ins company but it took them 6hrs to come back with the quote for a regular Omega so I didn't have the heart to ask her to get another quote!!

damo605 · 27-10-2005 3:36pm

Pininfarina designed Peugeot 605 is the way to go!
These are dirt cheap to buy, handle well, Economical (Okay maybe not the 3.0 version), share some suspension wear & tear items with the 405 which makes for some cheap and easy to get parts, and for their size are not exactly over weight!
I drove one of these (which I got for nothing) for about 50k miles with more or less no problems - Completely reliable and had no worries driving across the continent in it.... And this was a petrol version, the diesel versions are supposed to be much better

One bit of advice though would be to go for an automatic 605 as they seem to have taken a few short cuts with the design on the RHD versions with the clutch cable being a noted problem.
For someone who is looking for a really cheap sub €1,000 barge a good trick is to buy a '92 or '93 as most cars in this sector had catalytic convertors back then and the NCT only imposes the harsher emmissions test on '94 or newer cars so you're always sure to pass

Of the other suggestions I would definitely stay away from the 5 series as even much newer ones are a nightmare to run so imagine what 3.5k would get you :eek:

highdef · 27-10-2005 5:47pm

I have a 1998 top of the range Scoprio Ultima and I have to say it's by far the best car I've ever had. Have it since March last year and not one thing has gone wrong with it so far. It has every conceivable extra for a car of its time - Reversing sensors, autodimming rear view mirrow, auto-dipping wing mirror, 3 memory settings for drivers electric seats which are heated and leather. 6 cd autochanger, remote stalk for stereo, courtesy lights all over the place, massive boot, silky smooth 2.3 litre engine. I have the later facelift version which there are only a handful of in the country but IMO they look way nicer than the normal ones you see on the street - Most of the chrome from the front and back has been removed, the headlights are darkened and the rear lights look much better than before. I have over 160,000KMs on it now and it's just great. Gearchanges are still silky smooth and there's plenty of power when I need it. Plus the traction control keeps the back-end from kicking out on this RWD beast!!!
Here's a link for a 2litre Ghia version for sale, also a late faceleift model. Not sure if its an automatic though:
http://www.cbg.ie/Car_detail.asp?CBGID=308301&ID=539110&NumPics=1&Make=Ford&Model=Scorpio%20Ghia&frmFilter=

unkel · 27-10-2005 5:48pm

peasant wrote:

I can really recommend the Saab 9000

Aren't the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema all basically the same car?

mike65 · 27-10-2005 6:27pm

Thats correct, it was the first major body/chassis collaberation between two unconnected car companies I think.

Mike.

Ivan E · 27-10-2005 7:31pm

I remember driving a friends father's Scorpio back in '93. It was a 2.9i and it is one of my favourite cars ever. It was a few years old at that stage and was an English reg so no idea how old but it had electric seats with a pump to get the right formness, a trip computer, an amazing stereo (graphic equalizer and all!) and lots of other things. It was the model that was replaced by the bug eyed look and I think they completely ruined the look of it. I never liked them after that.

My parents in law drive a 2000 Maxima. It's a nice car I'll admit but the one thing is that they have had a few minor issues with it. Strange when you think of the reliability of the other Nissan models.

peasant · 27-10-2005 9:16pm

unkel wrote:

Aren't the Saab 9000, Alfa 164, Fiat Croma and Lancia Thema all basically the same car?

Actually ...not quite.

They were supposed to be the same when the co-operation started. But back in those days Saab was still Saab (and not GM) and striving for perfection. So they weren't quite happy with the result and improved pretty much everything. The only part that ended up being the same on all those cars are the outer skins of the front doors:D

And the Saab is the only one with the sweet 2 Litre turbo.

cardude wrote:

One question though, do you get charged extra for insurance seeing as they have a turbo fitted??

As it is an eco-turbo, low pressure turbo the insurance doesn't actually cost more (or it didn't in my case anyway)

It isn't a "fist in your back" all out racing kickass turbo, but gives great acceleration in a usable range (between 80 an 120 km/h for overtaking for example)

bazz26 · 27-10-2005 10:06pm

unkel · 28-10-2005 12:12am

peasant wrote:

And the Saab is the only one with the sweet 2 Litre turbo

Performance wise there is nought between the 9000 turbo and the N/A 164, both 2 liters

Pity the OP restricts himself to that, I wonder why? The sweetest deals in Ireland are on big barges with BIG engines

Presuming full no claims, full license, no claim ever, so insurance would be more or less the same*, maintenance shouldn't be any more expensive. So you are looking at a tax difference of about €800. A lot of money but you get so much more of a car!

*Fully comp insurance for me on a nearly 7 liter Rolls-Royce valued at €30k is cheaper than same on a relatively tame, small engined BMW 523i valued at €10k

michaelanthony · 28-10-2005 11:05am

I second Damo's suggestion of the Peugeot 605. They look great, especially in white with bodykit. They are REALLY comfortable aswell. Alternatively a 94 or 95 automatic E320 is good buy for what you pay for it(feck all). The ride is a bit firm though.

alias no.9 · 28-10-2005 11:45am

peasant wrote:

Actually ...not quite.

They were supposed to be the same when the co-operation started. But back in those days Saab was still Saab (and not GM) and striving for perfection. So they weren't quite happy with the result and improved pretty much everything. The only part that ended up being the same on all those cars are the outer skins of the front doors:D

They were never supposed to be the same. They were supposed to share a platform and technology. The italians brought their knowledge of chassis design and the sweeds, their knowledge of rust proofing.

peasant wrote:

Actually ...not quite.

And the Saab is the only one with the sweet 2 Litre turbo.

What about the Lancia Thema turbo? It had the same 2.0 16v turbo engine as the delta integrale.

cardude · 01-11-2005 12:20pm

Thanks for all of the replies, much appreciated

@Bazz: I had seen all of those cars alright.

@Unkel: I get your point regarding the value but tbh I don't see the point in forking out €1,200 a year tax(the €539 is killing me)

@damo: the 605's are pretty rare at this stage but I'll keep my eyes peeled(driving a 406 at the moment)

@highdef: no offence but the Scorpio isn't, how should I but this, exactly my cup of tea!!;)

I'll keep ye posted. I'm struggling to sell my own at the moment so I haven't been rushing out to look at anything.

Which barge?

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