SAF head on the block ? Merged with all sorts of Ferguson is finished threads

yop

Reminds me so much of watching Ireland against France, Cyprus and Switzerland, a manager who seems to have lost tactics, a team with no heart, too many players with no heart or pride and the one man who could have kicked them up the ass injured!!

Over paid or just crap, not sure what their problem is! Big changes needed if we are to win a title within the next 5 years

dirkey_wynne

wheres me jumpa wrote:

i think the problem for me is quireoz(spelling?). fergie is not the coach he used to be, his ways are outdated now. so he hired a young coach with new ideas. this is in effect the quireoz's team.

also look at most of the big teams. their squads are good but what really makes them stand out are their big players. the big players produce on the big stage almost carrying the poorer players. united just dont have big players producing it on the big stage. we need the likes of ferdinand, scholes, rvn, rooney and the players out injured at the moment to hand in big performances.

henry and lampard are classic examples of this. how many times has lampard saved chelsea? and henry for arsenal? or terry for chelsea for that matter. we have no one producing these kind of performances. we have no leaders.

im not calling for fergies head. for anyone to suggest that we sack him mid season is utter stupidity. who would we bring in? brian kerr?! the man is a legend who deserves the respect to be give until the end of the season. weve had a decade of success under him, surely the man united fans suffering from bad memory can wait a few months.

As I said, for a long time I have championed Fergie, but it's time to open your eyes and look at the facts. Fergie is bringing us down. You say the problem is Quieroz - he is the coach. Does the buck not stop with Fergie? Should he not realise that Quieroz isn't up to it? He should, but he doesn't.

Yes he was a legend, but his decisions these days are baffling. So you think we should wait until the seasons end? That'll be great, money given in January, Fergie will go out and again make some substandard purchases (his record hasn't exactly been spectacular of late now has it) and then the new manager will come in next summer with less money and more dead wood.

That's nice logic.

By the way, I never stated I wanted Fergie sacked.

Green_Martian

I think he should have left 3 years ago when he said he was going to retire.

I too would have defended him to the death but after last season and now the awful start to this one i cannot and will not defend his decisions anymore.

As already stated here, i would love to know how the fcuk Fletcher gets his game he cannot pass water never mind a ball.....he should be dropped and a s Keane said he doesn't know why all the scots are raving about him cos he is not up to scratch

wheres me jumpa

dirkey_wynne wrote:

By the way, I never stated I wanted Fergie sacked.

and i never said you did.

daveg

Whilst United's performance is without doubt the worst in a long long time don't forget what Fergie has acheived. For this he should never be slated by United fans.

Having said that I am begining to think it is his time to go.

MrJoeSoap

Another defeat, another "Fergie should go" thread. Surely you could have posted this in the other thread?

Aquos76

daveg wrote:

Whilst United's performance is without doubt the worst in a long long time don't forget what Fergie has acheived. For this he should never be slated by United fans.

Having said that I am begining to think it is his time to go.

We are not all slating him, just telling it as it his. As I have said in another thread, He has been our best ever manager and will always be remembered by that, but at the moment he is like somebody who is just out staying his welcome.

PHB

Indeed, a new thread to discuss the same thing, fantastic.

Uniteds problem is totally in midfield.
If there was another manager there, who would he play in midfield instead of them?
We don't have the midfielders, full stop.
Fergie knows this, a new manager knows this, and players will be bought to fix the problem.
I dont see how a different manager would do this.

fade2black

If you take a look back through many a soccer thread you will see that for the last year and a half or so, or basically since he was supposed to retire I have been calling for fergie to step down as manager of Man Utd, his decisions in the past yea have baffled, frustrated and infuriated me. I call on one poster in particular, whom I had many a battle on this subject, to step forward and give his case for the defence once again.

Your honour, I call on The Muppet.....

dirkey_wynne

PHB wrote:

Indeed, a new thread to discuss the same thing, fantastic.

Uniteds problem is totally in midfield.
If there was another manager there, who would he play in midfield instead of them?
We don't have the midfielders, full stop.
Fergie knows this, a new manager knows this, and players will be bought to fix the problem.
I dont see how a different manager would do this.

Eh, do you not think it has been up to Fergie to dismantle the midfield and make a new one for quite some time? Do you not think Fergie is to blame for buying sub standard Djemba, Kleb and Miller to name but 3.

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

Uniteds problem is totally in midfield

Just the midfield eh? I'd say that their defence at the moment isn't exactly the strongest.

B.

Aquos76

fade2black wrote:

If you take a look back through many a soccer thread you will see that for the last year and a half or so, or basically since he was supposed to retire I have been calling for fergie to step down as manager of Man Utd, his decisions in the past yea have baffled, frustrated and infuriated me. I call on one poster in particular, whom I had many a battle on this subject, to step forward and give his case for the defence once again.

Your honour, I call on The Muppet.....

He has already given his case in the OTHER thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318044&page=3

Thanx 4 The Fish

A new manager whould have bought them in in the summer. He has lost his way in the transfer market, and regardless of him knowing that he had a problem he did not buy somebody to fill in at CM. Will he buy somebody worth their salt in the window, and if so then why did he not buy them months ago before the rot set in and he had to pay over inflated prices for anybody who he would want. Butt and Neville sold on both players who continue to do a job for their respective teams in midfield, what a new manager would probably do is take the players who are playing in the comfort zone and give them a good kicking, metaphorically speaking of course. They would be playing for their place then and would not be able to live off past performances in training and back in the glory days.

Also to say that Uniteds problems are purley in midfield is laughable, defence has been leaky all season and if VdS had not been playing some cracking stuff up to last sat then they could be even further down the table. United have a good first choice strikeforce and a good keeper, in between they have nothing. So as long as VdS humps ever ball up to Ruud for a knock on to rooney or vice versa United are sorted.

fade2black

Leonard wrote:

He has already given his case in the OTHER thread

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=318044&page=3

Ah right thanks, dunno how I missed that....kinda wish I had now though...

PHB

UNiteds defense is fine.

Heinze - Rio - SLyvester - Neville is a world class defense
With Brown coming back into the fray we have quite a bit of cover.
O'Shea is not a bad defender at left back, where he falls down is going forward.

The problem with United leaking goals is to do with the midfield.
If Makelele and Essien weren't in front of the CHelsea team, they would also leak goals.
United midfielders aren't tracking back and picking up runners.
Two of middlesborough goals were directly from this problem.
Once Keano is back, the goals will stop going in.

Aquos76

PHB wrote:

UNiteds defense is fine.

Heinze - Rio - SLyvester - Neville is a world class defense

On Rio's contribution this season, I beg to differ with you!

Thanx 4 The Fish

Any defence with Loadsa Money Ferdinand is not fine, or at least not on his current form. Did you watch him against Boro ?

How many times has the defence you mentioned above played together this season ? The defence is nto just the people who are supposed to play, it is the cover for the ones that are first four. Richardson is not a defender, and proved this again in saturday, JoS, well I have no idea what his best position is although I beleive he does a great job keeping seats warm for others.

As for the Makelele Essien thing, do they play for Wigan ? Because wigan have shipped less goals than united this season in Prem, as Have the Woeful liverpool and many other teams in said league.

RedorDead

Thanks sir rednose. You are a legend. Please go before you ruin your legacy.

Midfield and Defence have been the problems. Not enough good players.

Also the squad is starting to look dis-interested. Saw it in Rooney for the first time last night and its not nice. Please walk Fergie and give someone else a chance to manage this squad.

Id love to see Paul le Guen get a chance.

PHB wrote:

UNiteds defense is fine.

Heinze - Rio - SLyvester - Neville is a world class defense

No its not. Heinze and Neville are class players.

Rio is an overpaid lazy arrogant player and Sylvestre has the concentration levels of a 4 year old child.

There are at least 7/8 central defensive partnerships better than this one in the premiership.

There are also 19 better central midfield partnerships than Smith and Fletcher.

Big Nelly

Seems to be alot of talk of Miller moving to Leeds on loan!! would be a good move for him to get first team footie in a team that is doing well in the Championship!!

LegacyUser

A lot of ignorance in this thread, as I said before, you would sware these people actually have some sort of tactical knowledge the way they go on...

Anyway, I strongly disagree with sacking Ferguson. What good will that do? At the moment, he is the only reason you should come to a club like Man Utd. I think he has been unlucky with transfers...Kleberson looked a fantastic player, got unlucky with injuries and never made it, Djemba played out of his skin against Utd in the Champions League those years ago and Forlan...well look at him now! Very unlucky he couldn't make it at Utd. I agree the team has too many failures in it but a couple of key signings are needed particularly in midfield and defence. Sacking Ferguson will most certainly put the club into disarray.

Big Nelly wrote:

Seems to be alot of talk of Miller moving to Leeds on loan!! would be a good move for him to get first team footie in a team that is doing well in the Championship!!

Get rid of that piece of ****. He is nothing more than a malnourished 12 year old. The absolute state of him, he is the biggest joke of a player. Send him down to the conference. He *may* get his game there.

fade2black

cheesedude wrote:

A lot of ignorance in this thread, as I said before, you would sware these people actually have some sort of tactical knowledge the way they go on...

Anyway, I strongly disagree with sacking Ferguson. What good will that do? At the moment, he is the only reason you should come to a club like Man Utd. I think he has been unlucky with transfers...Kleberson looked a fantastic player, got unlucky with injuries and never made it, Djemba played out of his skin against Utd in the Champions League those years ago and Forlan...well look at him now! Very unlucky he couldn't make it at Utd. I agree the team has too many failures in it but a couple of key signings are needed particularly in midfield and defence. Sacking Ferguson will most certainly put the club into disarray.

Lot of ignorance in this post...

Ferguson is the only reason a player would come to Man Utd?? Give me a break will ya...Djemba played out of his skin a couple of years ago?? I think you're grasping at straws now bud...

cheesedude wrote:

Get rid of that piece of ****. He is nothing more than a malnourished 12 year old. The absolute state of him, he is the biggest joke of a player. Send him down to the conference. He *may* get his game there.

And this...:rolleyes:

Royale with Cheese

Here's your problem with Rio... http://www.celebritymessages.com/viewProduct.aspx?id=RFYDVG008

BaZmO*

Dr J wrote:

Here's your problem with Rio... http://www.celebritymessages.com/viewProduct.aspx?id=RFYDVG008

God, that's terrible! He hardly needs the money that badly.


I like this quote from Rio that I picked up on another forum.

* "When I get home in the afternoon I just like to watch TV. I watch that programme 'Loose Women' and sometimes 'Trisha'" - Rio Ferdinand. Maybe he really did just 'forget' that drugs test because he's stupid.

Jason MacAteer's "Trigger" nickname might be up for grabs.

B.

p.pete

Reminds me of the downfall of Brian Clough (well, not really). Ideally United should have gotten in a top class manager in the Summer, it's time for a change. I don't agree with sacking AF either though, at least not yet. As other people have posted, he's done a lot for the club and deserves better then that and should be allowed to leave gracefully, as long as he does leave.

fade2black

p.pete wrote:

Reminds me of the downfall of Brian Clough (well, not really). Ideally United should have gotten in a top class manager in the Summer, it's time for a change. I don't agree with sacking AF either though, at least not yet. As other people have posted, he's done a lot for the club and deserves better then that and should be allowed to leave gracefully, as long as he does leave.

He had his chance to leave gracefully and he didn't take it. As I've said before he's like a gambler who won't leave the bookies until he gets his money back, and inevitablty loses it all. Fergie has said that he won't be stepping down until he gets the title back. This does not fill me with confidence.

AARRRGH

Check out this clip on skysport.com -

http://home.skysports.com/broadband.asp?showclip=yes

Does anyone else think Alex Ferguson is talking like a broken man? He seems so lethargic, depressed, resigned...

BaZmO*

Was there really any need for this thread?

He's hardly what you'd call a "broken man". Dissapointed maybe, but after the week he's had you wouldn't really blame him.

I did notice in the interview that he seems to have accepted the fact that he just doesn't have the cover when the top players are out.

B.

LegacyUser

fade2black wrote:

Lot of ignorance in this post...

Ferguson is the only reason a player would come to Man Utd?? Give me a break will ya...Djemba played out of his skin a couple of years ago?? I think you're grasping at straws now bud...



And this...:rolleyes:

You have not said a single thing to convince me otherwise fader. Djemba did play really well for Nantes before he was bought by Man Utd. How is that grasping at straws? It is true.

Oh and Thanks For The Fish, why on earth would I post whore? All it shows is that you spend more time on the internet than you ought to be spending...not exactly something to be proud of now is it?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Why would you post two posts within in a minute of each other ? In the most case this is an effort to increase postcount or just pure laziness, you decide which, I am not all that bothered.

I moderate this forum and I spend as much time on here as I need, I am not a proud person but I am happy that my input into it is not stifling and does not inconvenience anybody unreasonably.

LegacyUser

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Why would you post two posts within in a minute of each other ? In the most case this is an effort to increase postcount or just pure laziness, you decide which, I am not all that bothered.

I moderate this forum and I spend as much time on here as I need, I am not a proud person but I am happy that my input into it is not stifling and does not inconvenience anybody unreasonably.

Thanks 4 the Fish, you misunderstood me, I was not saying you were spending too much time on the internet. I was saying that post whoring people spend too much time on the net.

But to answer your question, by the time i got around to posting, that reply was there and I replied. I guess I should have just edited the post.

whiskeyman

was listening to 5Live earlier... some Man Utd fans calling in after coming home from Paris.
They said only Ruud, Park and Van Der Sar applauded the travelling fans after the game.
Says a lot about the rest of the players tbh...

Nunu

The most telling moment was when Ronaldo went straight down the tunnel after being subbed. I cannot recall a player ever doing this under Sir Alex's reign in 100's of games I've watched. Serious lack of character in most of the players is the main cause of the rot spreading through the club and also it has to be said a limited ability in the squad members that are filling in at the moment.

VDS, RVN, Park, Rooney, Keane, Giggs, Neville and Heinze are the undeniable rocks of MUFC, the rest are merely passengers. Actually in fairness to Smith he doesn't deserve to be labelled a passenger because he trys his heart out, but he is dying in a defensive mid role. Why was he left there when Utd were struggling to score Ah, I could go on forever.....so many questions.

The Muppet

fade2black wrote:

Ah right thanks, dunno how I missed that....kinda wish I had now though...

Why doesn't that surprise me. You appear to have no tolerance for anyone elses opinion labelling them idiotic and making snide remarks as above.

As for personalising the debate I'm not interested either, so cop yourself on will ya.

fade2black

It was more of a light hearted personalisation muppet, which I thought, obviously wrongly, that you could recognise.

The point I made was that keeping someone, who is failing, in a job just because they had success in the past is idiotic. I wasn't calling any other posters idiotic but I do believe this particular train of thought borders on madness.

In response to your criticisms, I have the utmost respect for everyone else's opinion and I would challenge you to find a post by me where I appear not to. I have acknowledged your posts many times when I was in agreement but you seem to have an opinion of me that's never going to change, much like all your own opinions.

PHB

....so many questions.

I've a question for you.
How exactly do you inted to play both Ruud and Rooney, who you label as rocks, and rightly so, and Smith at the same time?

These are the sort of accusations thrown at Fergie without people actually looking at the real problem.
I however remain hopeful.

A midfield of Keano - Mikel - Jones after christmas is quite decent, probabbly better than what we have now

The Muppet

fade2black wrote:

It was more of a light hearted personalisation muppet, which I thought, obviously wrongly, that you could recognise..

You're right I didn't (and still don't) recognise the humour in it. Im future use smilies or[ Humour] tags in extreme cases like I do.:D It was your idiotic comment which I took to point at me that I take exception to .

fade2black wrote:

The point I made was that keeping someone, who is failing, in a job just because they had success in the past is idiotic. I wasn't calling any other posters idiotic but I do believe this particular train of thought borders on madness.

While I do not agree with you stance on the subject matter here I do respect your right to express it without being singled out to justify it ,or be labeled an idiot. I understand where you and the other guys here with similar views are coming from , I just have not reached the point ye are at yet.

If fergie can not turn things around he will have to go, but at the moment considering all alternatives i think he should be given more time . Fergie has been in this position before and but for an FA Cup win in the early 90s we may now be heading for 40 years without winning the league. I would want to be 100 percent certain that he can no longer do the job at united before replacing him. At the moment I am not certain.

fade2black wrote:

In response to your criticisms, I have the utmost respect for everyone else's opinion and I would challenge you to find a post by me where I appear not to. I have acknowledged your posts many times when I was in agreement but you seem to have an opinion of me that's never going to change, much like all your own opinions.

You know what I try not form opinions of people on Bulletin Boards because experience tells me that nobodys right all of the time and at the end of the day its just a discussion on the internet. I always say it as I see it and dont let personality clashes or anything else influence my opinions. I do not believe it possible to judge accurately anyones true personality from a forum like this, most of us turn into different people behind the keyboard. In other words I have not formed any opinions on you and I'm sure we will agree on issues in future.

fade2black

To be honest Muppet I enjoy our banter and if I didn't rate your opinions I wouldn't even bother interacting with you. After all, and this may surprise ya, I wouldn't be on this forum without ya. (You were kind enough to sponser me all that time ago)

The Muppet

fade2black wrote:

After all, and this may surprise ya, I wouldn't be on this forum without ya. (You were kind enough to sponser me all that time ago)

That doesn't surprise me ,I remember sponsoring you, and I would sponsor you again if need be. It would be pretty dull around here if everyone held the same opinions.

Fancy a kickaround in no mans land ?

fade2black

I'll bring the jumpers if you bring the ball...

Dr Bolouswki

get a room

Nunu

PHB wrote:

I've a question for you.
How exactly do you inted to play both Ruud and Rooney, who you label as rocks, and rightly so, and Smith at the same time?

I was taking this game on how it unfolded. It's not rocket science. When time is running out and you're chasing a goal and you have those 3 players on the pitch I fully expect the 3 of them to be deployed in attacking positions. Does that not seem logical?

Are you referring to John Obi Mikel - is that not a dead duck? And speaking of character, he is not exactly of the proper mould judging by the circus his transfer turned into. Another money grabbing waste of space by the looks of it.

fade2black

Dr Bolouswki wrote:

get a room

Ah I'm sure we'll have words again come sunday evening...:eek:

Dr Bolouswki

I can't see UTD winning on Sunday... though, given that heinze and Neville are out (arguabley the best of Uniteds defence) and that Keane and Giggs's experience is missing from midfield, I wonder if a sequence of draw, loss, loss (blackburn, Boro, Lille??? Am i right?) is really such a terrible crisis? For sure Utd are not the force they were, for sure the midfield is a bit sh*te, but arguably one world class holding midfielder and one good central attacking midfielder could sort Utd out? 20 or 30 million? Is it really such a crisis? Not much chance of anyone matching Chelsea this season anyway, Utd will maintain in the top 3 I would imagine.... Ferguson shold probably leave next summer because peopel jsut get s o used to listening to the same voice that its inevitable taht complacency can sneak in....

Anyway, Not that I give much of crap, as long as Stuart Pearce and Super City keep playing with their current elan I've no care whasoever how United are doing - though of course, them lsoing is always good :-)

RedorDead

Revealed: the first Keane tape in cold storage

United captain savaged Solskjaer over misses

Daniel Taylor
Friday November 4, 2005
The Guardian


Manchester United are secretly hiding a second MUTV interview with Roy Keane in which he criticised Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with such venom that Sir Alex Ferguson ordered it should never go out on air. Ferguson ordered a cover-up and thought he had managed to keep it in-house until details emerged last night of a tirade every bit as inflammatory as Keane's diatribe this week about falling standards at Old Trafford and the questionable form of, among others, Rio Ferdinand, Darren Fletcher, John O'Shea, Alan Smith and Kieran Richardson.


Ferguson must have had a deeply unhappy sense of déjà vu when MUTV's producers contacted him on Monday about Keane's caustic observations as the same happened midway through the 2002-03 season. Although United finished as champions that year, they spent the first part of the campaign chasing Arsenal and Keane was unsparing in his criticism, accusing his colleagues of lacking the desire and talent to compete at the highest level. This was the first time Keane named names and the worst abuse was directed at Solskjaer, who scored only two goals in his opening 20 league appearances that season. The Norwegian, a cult hero for the fans, was castigated for the number of chances he had missed. On Ferguson's orders, the tape is now thought to be under lock and key at MUTV's offices.
At the time, Keane was said by a source at the club to have "gone ballistic" when the broadcast was not aired.

On another occasion Keane is described as having "lost it" when he saw Ruud van Nistelrooy combing his hair before an interview with MUTV at the club's training ground. Keane launched into an onslaught against the Holland striker, littered with four-letter words. The gist of his complaint was that Van Nistelrooy should be concentrating on scoring rather than "fiddling with your hair" for the cameras. MUTV officials were taken aback by his aggressive behaviour and Van Nistelrooy, not normally afraid to stand up for himself, was visibly shaken to be told in such uncompromising terms that his performances were not good enough.

The latest revelations will increase the perception of Keane as an increasingly disaffected figure at Old Trafford since the 1999 treble and, perhaps tellingly, since he stopped drinking. Van Nistelrooy can be an aloof character in the United dressing room but he has never faced allegations about a lack of effort or having jumbled priorities. Solskjaer is generally regarded as being one of the more likeable characters at the club.

In the same circumstances that led to Monday's Roy Keane Plays the Pundit show being pulled and the tapes subsequently burned, MUTV's producers were so alarmed by the explicit nature of the criticism directed towards Ferguson's players they felt they had no option but to contact the manager and the then chief executive Peter Kenyon. Between them they ordered that the show should be replaced with a club-friendly alternative. It was stressed to MUTV staff, some of whom have received £5,000 offers from tabloid newspapers, that there would be a full inquest if the story got out, particularly if the transcript was leaked. Then, like now, there had been questions about the apparent decline of Ferguson's team and the manager was becoming increasingly edgy about what his players said in interviews. Ferguson had already pulled the plug on a show with Dwight Yorke, with whom he had fallen out because of his appearances on the front pages. It is unclear what Yorke said but Ferguson was annoyed enough to order it canned. The manager also paid particular attention to David Beckham's MUTV interviews, most of which were heavily edited by the player's representatives.

There is little doubt Ferguson is unimpressed with Keane's latest decision to go public and that, having clashed in the summer over pre-season training arrangements, their relationship has eroded. But the fact that Keane has done this before and was not disciplined undermines the theory that it might precipitate his departure from the club.

The alternative argument is that Keane should have learned some diplomacy from his first experience of being gagged. The club are aware that Keane, 34, still wants a new contract and, if one is forthcoming, the small print might include a request for greater tact.

p.pete

Great article RedorDead, he's a modern day Ronnie Moran
I reckon if AF stays on he should hand over the hair dryer to Keane, either that or Keane would be at home alongside Dunphy and Giles

<edit>

Anyways, hopefully all these hidden and edited tapes become public record in 30 years!

jank

Jesus Old Trafford is like Stalin's Russia. No wonder its all going to ****

therecklessone

RedorDead wrote:

Revealed: the first Keane tape in cold storage



Manchester United are secretly hiding a second MUTV interview with Roy Keane in which he criticised Ole Gunnar Solskjaer with such venom that Sir Alex Ferguson ordered it should never go out on air.

Very interesting. I wonder will the Keane fan-boys be quite so understanding of that outburst directed at a fan's favourite? (for the record, I think he was right to say what he's alleged to have said this time)

This report and a few stories I've heard (personal accounts, no sources to provide so don't ask ) suggest Keane can go nuclear when he lets his control slip a little, which seems at odds with the picture painted of him since he became a more focused and disciplined figure on the pitch. I suppose we're all guilty of that to a degree, but Keane strikes me as an incredibly frustrated man at times, and I wonder what impact a future career in football management will have on his personal life. Just wondering...

The Muppet

I heard MUTV studios have had an extension built on to house the tapes of keane interviews that they could not air.

therecklessone

The Muppet wrote:

I heard MUTV studios have had an extension built on to house the tapes of keane interviews that they could not air.

I've heard its called Room 101...:D

Jivin Turkey

The Muppet wrote:

I heard MUTV studios have had an extension built on to house the tapes of keane interviews that they could not air.

I heard they found a big spot underneath one of their carpets which was more than adequate.