SAF head on the block ? Merged with all sorts of Ferguson is finished threads

Lemlin

I'd be surprised if that's true about Solksjaer. He's one of the United players that Keane repeatedly praises in his autobiography, saying that while he thought he was a boot boy on first-sight, he had the perfect professional attitude.

The Muppet

Apparently there was a meeting with all the players and staff yesterday at which the video of Keanes pulled interview was played . The management did this to dispell media reports that have exaggerated the personal nature of Keanes comments.

Raskolnikov

The only situation at United is only getting more ludicrous :eek: Does Keane not realise that his comments are only serving to bring complete disarray to the team? While his attacks on Ferdinand, O' Shea et al were fair, it's absolute lunacy if he did infact make comments about van Nistelrooy or Solksjaer. Not only that, but Ferguson's authority on the team has been totally undermined and blown out of the water. Surely it's telling that only days after Keane damned Miller, he was out the door? Sounds to me like the Glazers made an intervention.

therecklessone

Raskolnikov wrote:

Not only that, but Ferguson's authority on the team has been totally undermined and blown out of the water.

Fergis says different....

Sir Alex Ferguson has warned Roy Keane and everyone else at Manchester United he will not tolerate public criticism of his players.

Ferguson was involved in the executive decision to prevent Keane's sensational assessment of last weekend's humiliating defeat at Middlesbrough hitting the MUTV airwaves on Monday. United officials were aghast at his forthright views, which are reported to have involved fierce attacks on some members of the United squad.

"Of course there is criticism," said Ferguson. "The criticism has come from all directions. What you have to do as manager of our club is to make sure the criticism remains inside your doors."

He continued: "I am unremitting in that respect. Totally unequivocal. My stance is there and it doesn't change.

"You don't criticise any Manchester United player outside the doors. I have never done and I won't."

...well, kind of...

http://www.football365.com/news/story_167808.shtml

Take it

Good god have fans really become so fickle. Fergie should not go (coming from a Liverpool fan)

I’m amazed at how quickly people jump on managers backs at the moment, I really think it is due to the frustration of Chelsea doing so well and basically running away with the PL and other teams aren't doing as well so the manager must go?? Rafa was getting it from left right and centre last week and this week is a different story top of CL group and chance to move up the table if the game in hand is won.

Fergie will come good! Man U always has a bad patch before Christmas and finishes the season so strongly.

I feel he has handled the Keane issue very well, don’t wash your dirty laundry in public, is basically what he’s saying and he’s right keane has no right to do an interview and slag off players he should have just done that in the dressing room!!

Man U fans also have to remember (I feel) that it’s a time of transition for Man U as Quiroz (spelling) is probably having a say in the tactics as well as Fergie and the players maybe getting mixed up with basically two managers!!

Fergie has brought to the Club Rooney, Ruud, Park (one for the future I think) Heinze, Rio and Ronaldo (Spelling?) all fantastic signings. Man U are currently still in the CL and still are in a ok position to claim second place (which I think they will) its no major crisis and I would put any money on that if they beat Chelski this weekend it will be all forgotten about!

Thanx 4 The Fish

I too as a liverpool fan hope fergie stays, he is running them into the ground and long may it continue.

fade2black

Take it wrote:

Good god have fans really become so fickle. Fergie should not go (coming from a Liverpool fan)

I’m amazed at how quickly people jump on managers backs at the moment, I really think it is due to the frustration of Chelsea doing so well and basically running away with the PL and other teams aren't doing as well so the manager must go?? Rafa was getting it from left right and centre last week and this week is a different story top of CL group and chance to move up the table if the game in hand is won.

Fergie will come good! Man U always has a bad patch before Christmas and finishes the season so strongly.

I feel he has handled the Keane issue very well, don’t wash your dirty laundry in public, is basically what he’s saying and he’s right keane has no right to do an interview and slag off players he should have just done that in the dressing room!!

Man U fans also have to remember (I feel) that it’s a time of transition for Man U as Quiroz (spelling) is probably having a say in the tactics as well as Fergie and the players maybe getting mixed up with basically two managers!!

Fergie has brought to the Club Rooney, Ruud, Park (one for the future I think) Heinze, Rio and Ronaldo (Spelling?) all fantastic signings. Man U are currently still in the CL and still are in a ok position to claim second place (which I think they will) its no major crisis and I would put any money on that if they beat Chelski this weekend it will be all forgotten about!

You must have mourned for days when Souness and Evans were sacked from Liverpool.*







*I am in no way comparing these people to Fergie.

TheMonster

I am confused presently as to what the best solution is. Part of me is saying give Ferguson a chance to see if he can turn it around, I think he deserves one last chance. Another part of me is saying has the rot set in and should he go now. I think he should be given until the end of the season, if he wins anything I think he will step down, currently though one of the 2 dometic cups is looking the mosts likely, even though if we can scrape through in Europe anything could happen next year.

I would love to know what the full story behind the lack of a big midfield transfer was in the summer. I don't think he would have shipped out Kleberson and/or P Neville unless there was someone lined up, what happened to that signing we probably won't know until his biography, I don't believe Fergie is naieve enough, given Keanes injuries and Scholes lack of form last season to expect to get through the season with the midfielders at his disposal.

Regarding Rio he is a quality player but thrives on confidence. His form as far as I can see stemmed from his being booed in pre-season, he strikes me as a player that likes to feel wanted. I don't think he is the brightest and was badly advised in the contract negotiations. United as a team need him playing well so the best thing to happen tomorrow would be for him to win an important early challenge and for the fans to chant his name, try and get his confidence back.(Can't see it hapen but it would be the best for everyone).

Old Trafford needs to be turned into a caudron of noise tomorrow and I think you will find Ferguson in the program will call for the fans to get behind the team. If they can get the place noisy and the adrenalin going we might get a better performance United are at their best when they play a fast tempo game, with Rooney, Park and Ronaldo flying.

I hope the lighweight players are dropped tomorrow - O'Shea/Fletcher I am looking at you and replaced with tougher players to try and rattle Chelsea. My starting team would be

VDS
RB Bardsley - he will kick players
LB Sylvestre - won't give much going forward but will get stuck in
CB Rio and Brown - Rio needs to get tough, Brown will get stuck in - let him pick up Drogba

CM - Scholes and Smith both are tough enough - keep Fletcher out
AM - Rooney - sit him a little deeper to pick up the ball and create/run with it - aldo not to let Makele run the game

RM - Ronaldo
LM - Park
CF - Ruud

Both wide layers will have to defend and get forward quickly. Ruud needs to have close support whenwe are attacking.

fade2black

I share your feelings to be honest. Ok, for the past year or so I've been writing about wanting Fergie to step down from his position at the club but this has been for the good of the man as much as the club. Here are a few of my reasons:

*Players need to be continuosly challenged. When you've only had one manager there is a danger that complacency sets in and also that Fergie loses sight of a couple of things within the club. Sometimes it takes a fresh face who has been looking in from the outside to come in and shake up the things that need changing.
*I think from a coaching point fo view he has stepped down to some degree and let the short sighted Carlos Quirez take command. A lot of his tactical decisions this year have left a lot to be desired.
*In recent years Fergie has been guilty of playing weaker sides in games where he presumed victory was assured, of course this is never the case for Man Utd and his decision to accept 2nd place in Europe last year baffled me.
*He looks like a desperate man who is losing control of his team at the moment and it hurts to see it cause I have a lot of love and respect for the man...just looking at the goals on Sky One last night (there was a great clip after Beckhams goal against Spurs where Fergie jumps out of the dug out and you can see him shouting "What a fcuking goal!!" He loves the club and I do regret how things have turned.
*You have to wonder how much more Fergie can bring to the dressing room...all these players have no experience of another manager at the club and I question if the motivation levels are what they could or should be.
*In 99 and other years Man Utd looked like a team who you always believed would win, even if it took a last minute goal (or two), know there are injuries now but there is still a team of 11 internationals out there and I won't accept that a few injuries is enough to destroy this team spirit that has been inherent in the club for decades.

As I said, I watched that programme last night and was so tempted to start a what happened to Man United thread but I had a feeling it wouldn't go down well. Im not calling on Fergie to leave just for the sake of it...the players in recent years have even said it could be time for him to go...

TheMonster

fade2black wrote:

*Players need to be continuosly challenged. When you've only had one manager there is a danger that complacency sets in and also that Fergie loses sight of a couple of things within the club. Sometimes it takes a fresh face who has been looking in from the outside to come in and shake up the things that need changing.

The amount of injuries is a bigger problem that people think - it has lead to players being in the comfort zone - it doesn't matter if I play crap the rest are injured so I will be in the team.

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I too as a liverpool fan hope fergie stays, he is running them into the ground and long may it continue.

Get back under your bridge.

Is Benitze running Liverpool into the ground ? They appear to be in a very similar position to United ? If (and granted considering current form it's a big if) United win tomorrow they will be in third place ahead of both Arsenal and Liverpool and eight points off the Lead.

I know you are only puliing chains but you need to put a bit more thought into it if it's to be effictive.:D

jesus_thats_gre

The Muppet wrote:

Get back under your bridge.

Is Benitze running Liverpool into the ground ? They appear to be in a very similar position to United ? If (and granted considering current form it's a big if) United win tomorrow they will be in third place ahead of both Arsenal and Liverpool and eight points off the Lead.

I know you are only puliing chains but you need to put a bit more thought into it if it's to be effictive.:D

Liverpool have been a more successful club this century than United have been

Thanx 4 The Fish

The Muppet wrote:

Get back under your bridge.

Is Benitze running Liverpool into the ground ? They appear to be in a very similar position to United ? If (and granted considering current form it's a big if) United win tomorrow they will be in third place ahead of both Arsenal and Liverpool and eight points off the Lead.

I know you are only puliing chains but you need to put a bit more thought into it if it's to be effictive.:D

Not quite in a similar position, what has Ferguson done for United in the last two seasons ? Fnck all that's what, Benitez has won the CL with a team all united fans I remember saying were sh1t.

It seems to have been a very effective post as you dived straight on in as expected. I believe it was you a couple of seasons ago who said the same of GH, how is that medicine of yours tasting there Muppet ?

Necronomicon

I can just imagine Liverpool fans citing their glory years next century too:)
I know as a United fan I'm putting my foot in it by saying that, seeing our recent form, but it's only been two seasons since we won the title:o

Regarding Fergy, I could see him leaving at the end of the season but I fail to see how him leaving mid-season could have any positive effect whatsoever. I know the team seems mediocre at the moment, but Fergie deserves better after what he's done for the club. To get back to the glory years the team needs a bit of an overhaul and long-term change, there is no quick fix to the situation.

blu_sonic

all due respect liverpool fans have more to cheer about

Lemlin

For the love of god this is a thread about Sir Alex Ferguson, any chance we could have a topic on Boards without bringing up Liverpool!

The Muppet

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

Not quite in a similar position, what has Ferguson done for United in the last two seasons ? Fnck all that's what, Benitez has won the CL with a team all united fans I remember saying were sh1t.

It seems to have been a very effective post as you dived straight on in as expected. I believe it was you a couple of seasons ago who said the same of GH, how is that medicine of yours tasting there Muppet ?

Why limit it to tha last two season Ferguson has been manager of United for twenty years. You're right though about last seasons Liverpool team and If you read back the threads of the time I think you'll find that it was not only United Fans that though they hadn't a chance of winning The CL in fact many Liverpool fans voiced similar opinions. I wouldn't belittle Fergies reputation by comparing him to Mr Houlier.

The Muppet

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Liverpool have been a more successful club this century than United have been

Don't you start.;)

Thanx 4 The Fish

I did not admit to trolling I did mention that I expected your response. When I put my kids to bed I expect them to cry, it is not trolling, just because I posted something and expected a response, that is not trolling.

I agree that liverpool were not expected to win the CL but they did and it may have been to the teams detriment, with well increased transfer prices and supporters expecting more earlier. However what Benitez has over SAF is new ideas and a plan. SAF has had years to build upon his success and to make a team that could challenge. He has nurtured some young players who do not cut it, has bought players who cannot cut it and a team that is quite close to being knocked out of the CL (although I am of the opinion that they will qualify and have put a few quid on it.) Two years is a long time winless for Man U, a team that expects success with fans who expect the same, they will not tolerate that and when the players start to complain about the same thing then it is fairly serious. Whether the fans can put up with many more losses is something that I suppose is down to them, I am not a man u fan however I know that while I supported Houllier when the pool were on the way down, in the back of my mind I always thought that somebody with fresh ideas and a new perspective on the way the team could go forward would bring more success.

jank

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I did not admit to trolling I did mention that I expected your response. When I put my kids to bed I expect them to cry, it is not trolling, just because I posted something and expected a response, that is not trolling.

Now now girls, get a room

Lemlin

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote:

I did not admit to trolling I did mention that I expected your response. When I put my kids to bed I expect them to cry, it is not trolling, just because I posted something and expected a response, that is not trolling.

I agree that liverpool were not expected to win the CL but they did and it may have been to the teams detriment, with well increased transfer prices and supporters expecting more earlier. However what Benitez has over SAF is new ideas and a plan. SAF has had years to build upon his success and to make a team that could challenge. He has nurtured some young players who do not cut it, has bought players who cannot cut it and a team that is quite close to being knocked out of the CL (although I am of the opinion that they will qualify and have put a few quid on it.) Two years is a long time winless for Man U, a team that expects success with fans who expect the same, they will not tolerate that and when the players start to complain about the same thing then it is fairly serious. Whether the fans can put up with many more losses is something that I suppose is down to them, I am not a man u fan however I know that while I supported Houllier when the pool were on the way down, in the back of my mind I always thought that somebody with fresh ideas and a new perspective on the way the team could go forward would bring more success.

1 season winless actually. They won the FA Cup in 2003-2004. They won nothing in 2004-2005 but 2005-2006 isn't over yet.

The Muppet

I agree that liverpool were not expected to win the CL but they did and it may have been to the teams detriment, with well increased transfer prices and supporters expecting more earlier. However what Benitez has over SAF is new ideas and a plan.

I would be very amazed if Fergie did not have a plan to right things . Most of us Armchair Pundits here know whats wrong with United and how to put it right . Problem is that Tthe transfer window does not open until January and even ewhen it does getting the right players is not going to be easy.

SAF has had years to build upon his success and to make a team that could challenge. He has nurtured some young players who do not cut it, has bought players who cannot cut it and a team that is quite close to being knocked out of the CL (although I am of the opinion that they will qualify and have put a few quid on it.)

But he has built two hughly sucessful teams since he joined United and is in the process of building a third. He has also nutured many younger players that do cut it. In fact they cut is so much that the English FA changed the rules about young players joining clubs. How many other English Clubs are producing quality young players? Very few becaus the system is flawed. I believe there are moves afoot to rectify the situation but that will take time.

Two years is a long time winless for Man U, a team that expects success with fans who expect the same, they will not tolerate that and when the players start to complain about the same thing then it is fairly serious. Whether the fans can put up with many more losses is something that I suppose is down to them,

To me (who has supported United since 1971) two years not winning the league is nothing. I went through the seventies and Eighties winning the odd fa cup and also relegation but boy did we make up for that in the 90s thanks to Fergie. I understand that there are united supporters who would not agree with me on that but they are the ones that have only known success. TBH I think its very arrrogant of any supporteer to they have a right to win any match and to be calling for the maangers head as soon as we lose a few, we've always lost a few . If United beat Chelsea today we will be in third place 8 points off the lead ahead of both liverpool and arsenal. I'm not saying thats ideal but its hardly catstrophic either. United season is no where near as bad as it is being portrayed.

I am not a man u fan however I know that while I supported Houllier when the pool were on the way down, in the back of my mind I always thought that somebody with fresh ideas and a new perspective on the way the team could go forward would bring more success.

I understand that and I do see that my belief that Ferguson will sort out the problems may be wrong. There is a difference between Houlier and Fergie in that Fergie has a proven track record and I want him to have more time to put things right. Maybe you're right and he can't cut it anymore but if United sack him now they will never know. Who do you think could replace Fergie at United and Win the league in the short term?

blu_sonic

regardless of what happens man u fans owe a huge gratitude to SAF, look at what he's done for them. He has been the best manager in england since the 70's. i don't like the chap but he was a tactical genius in his day, which has past

whiskeyman

I wonder what all those who wanted SAF out are thinking this evening...

Chong

I am one who rightly criticised the man but hopfully he can turn things around now. I am in heaven, this topped my week, month and year in football.

Aquos76

whiskeyman wrote:

I wonder what all those who wanted SAF out are thinking this evening...

Why should our opinions change? Ok we managed to stop the rot, thats the main thing. I still believe that Sir Alex has had his spell at man u and should go out when he still has some pride left.

Davei141

Your opinion should change because it always does with results, would you of even said anything if united drawed the last 2 games they lost? hell no...and thats the difference between some united fans. Theyre well too quick to ask for the managers head these days. "fergie must go" and what? "get martin o neil" as people keep saying...Loada bollocks, as the man said himself.

Headshot

while watching the interview with sky sports

Sir Alex's interview

he still has the drive and motavaition [fire]

i taught it was gone .havent seen it for ages

im delighted

he still has the fire

jank

I am in heaven, this topped my week, month and year in football.

You dont get out much do you.

astrofool

ah, just because it eclipsed thrashing Arsenal 4-2 at Highbury Jank

(+ he said in football)

jonny68

Do people really think Fergies head is on the block :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jank

Football is more then a result. If this is your highlight then you may aswell stop taking an interest in football until next year.

yop

He still has the passion, that is very evident, but as said one result does not build a team, but it is a step in the right direction. Bit of a laugh though how a team who are in third could be under pressure!! More like the press and abu's trying to dress it up.
He is without doubt one of the best in English and if not European football, one season without a trophy is not a crisis, far from it, but with a bit of luck and a lot of pox we might pull another trophy in again this year.

Dr Bolouswki

I think plenty of the people calling for Fergie to go are actually United supporters, rather than just an over-excited press and ABU's - in fact a lot of this very thread is Utd supporters saying 'cya later alex'...

Hopefully chelseas losses will continue, and the championship race will open up a bit....

Though I still hope Utd don't win

LegacyUser

It is a pity the way some bitter(???) liverpool fans still bring up their team in completely irrelevant threads...I am concerned about my team but Liverpool may not even get in it next season if they keep playing the way they play but hey neither may United.... They won the Champions League last season but they are still not respected as a footballing team...

p.pete

cheesedude wrote:

bitter(???) liverpool fans

nah, we won the CL nothing to be bitter about

Thanx 4 The Fish

cheesedude wrote:

It is a pity the way some bitter(???) liverpool fans still bring up their team in completely irrelevant threads...I am concerned about my team but Liverpool may not even get in it next season if they keep playing the way they play but hey neither may United.... They won the Champions League last season but they are still not respected as a footballing team...

Unbelievably Mr Cheese, it was not liverpool fans who brought them into the thread. It was Man U fans who were trying to temper the fact that they have not got a team who can challenge for honours this season with the fact that liverpool are not doing as well as them in the league. And as Pete said, why should liverpool fans be bitter ? "We are the Champions, Champions of Europe" is not something I have hear being sung at Old Trafford in some not inconsiderable amount of time.

As for being respected as a footballing team, look where it got Arsenal this and last season, Arsenal IMO play the most attractive football in the premiership and are respected for it however it does not win them games. United are most certainly not respected as a footballing team any more than Bolton are, SAF has adopted the 451 in many games now because he sees that it has worked for Chelsea, who can play it and still play good football, however unless he has the players at his disposal to suit the system then what advantage is there to playing it for his team ? If you do not have players to play well in every position in a new formation then why not adapt the system to the players and not the other way around.

The Muppet

Dr Bolouswki wrote:

in fact a lot of this very thread is Utd supporters saying 'cya later alex'...

Hopefully chelseas losses will continue, and the championship race will open up a bit....

Though I still hope Utd don't win

I don't believe ther are "a lot" of Man Utd fans here calling for Fergie to go but there are certainly some. I also don't think view point reflects the feelings of Man United fans in general.

PHB

As for being respected as a footballing team, look where it got Arsenal this and last season, Arsenal IMO play the most attractive football in the premiership and are respected for it however it does not win them games.

I agree that ARsenal are the best 'footballing team' in terms of passing movement, I doubt many disagree. Although a lot of people like the Italian style of football as 'pure football'

United are most certainly not respected as a footballing team any more than Bolton are,

That statement is just laughable.
Ask any team manager in the entire premiership and ask them who the most attacking side in the premiership are. The anwser will always be united.
United havn't been playing great football lately, but when they click, and they do more often than not, they play fast tempo passing football looking for penetration more than anything else.
To compare them with Bolton is ridiculous

SAF has adopted the 451 in many games now because he sees that it has worked for Chelsea,

Common misconception trying to annoy United fans. Man Utd apopted the 4-3-3 system when Real Madrid beat them in the CL a couple of years ago. Fergie saw that system, was amazed by it, saw how it worked for them, and wanted it to work for him. The idea that he copied it from Chelsea is a testament to how much you know about United's formations, as they have been using 4-3-3 for a couple of years now.

who can play it and still play good football, however unless he has the players at his disposal to suit the system then what advantage is there to playing it for his team ? If you do not have players to play well in every position in a new formation then why not adapt the system to the players and not the other way around.

United don't have the players for a 4-4-2 either. If anything they have players much better suited to a 4-3-3 than a 4-4-2.

In a 4-4-2 you need 2 top quality CM's, and two wingers who are willing to backtrack, and two forwards.
This year we have two forwards, two now good wingers(park/Giggs) who backtracks, and one top class winger who doesn't(Ronaldo)
We obviously have two top quality forwards.
In CM we have nobody of top quality, thus we would be killed in that system, leaving ourselves open to a lot of chances, as you saw against Chelsea.

For a 4-3-3
You need 1 top class AMC, 1 top class DMC, 1 good midfield runner
You need 2 top class wing forwards, and a top class striker.
We have the later requirments up front, and in midfield our problems are obvious.
Keano is a top class DMC, but is injured. Smith is an average replacement at best.
Scholesy is ****e atm.
Fletcher hasn't been pulling his weight so far this season.

So in the 4-4-2, we have 3 positions that are going badly, and Rooney is played in position, Ronaldo out of it.
In a 4-3-3, we have 3 positions going badly, 2 if keano is around, and Ronaldo is played in his preferred and best position(look at him for Portugal if you dont agree), and Rooney is played slightly out of position, but in reality plays mostly in that position anway.
When United play a 4-3-3, it could more accurately be described as 4-1-1-1-1-2
or

---

GK

---

RB----CB

---

CB

---

LB

---

DMC

---

---

MC

---

---

AMC

---

---RW

---

---

LW

---

---

CF

---

BaZmO*

PHB wrote:

it could more accurately be described as 4-1-1-1-1-2

Ha ha! a 4-1-1-1-1-2???? That's some system!

B.