New Classic Cars Ireland website is online

PaulK_CCI

Just to let you all know I finally managed to get the long overdue new website up and running this weekend.
There's still a good few small little things to be ironed out, but essentially it's up and running!

Have a sneak preview and feel free to comment... A newsletter announcing the official 'arrival' should be going out later this week.

www.classiccarsireland.nl

Paul

Squirrel

Congratulations Paul, I like it, although I did like the way the old site had the showroom split into different marques.

I would give anything for that 130 Coupe. Damn no money and not being old enough :mad:

PaulK_CCI

thanks Squirrel.

That division is still there. From the home page you can click on the different makes, plus you can enter a search string for the make or model you like.

The showroom contains all the cars in alphabetical order...

dubtom

That Beta brings back memeories, I had one, my first car,cost me 50 quid and it was rotten.But the engine wasn't, 1600 double overhead cam with twin carbs.
Great to see Classics for sale on an Irish site, hope it goes well for you.

Abelloid

I like the new site, I regularly visit just to see what's out there
I would love to have the Hertz Mustang

Squirrel

So it is, I didn't even see the home button. It's a great site, and a brilliant idea

coolcon

very nice cars on a very nice site. well done!

Alfasudcrazy

Nice site Paul and an impressive selection of classics - care to divulge the price of the Dino?:D
The Lancia Beta is nice too except for an apparent warping of the grille??
The gap between the bonnet and grille seems uneven?:)

manta mad

great site, nicely done . the opel gt looks very very very tempting::)
i dont think id be very welcome at home if i bring home another classic:rolleyes:
id have to get shot of one of my mantas first:(
some day soon maybe, just maybe.

ds20prefecture

€17500 for a DSuper 5? :eek: Shipping from NZ must be pretty steep!

stratos

prices seem high, compared to uk magazines, even with sterling conversion.

PaulK_CCI

stratos wrote:

prices seem high, compared to uk magazines, even with sterling conversion.

Prices might seem strong, but don't forget they include transport, vrt, registration and the fitting of period black plates !!! For most people it's the package that appeals. They don't have time to route around on the internet evening on evening, to compare prices, etc.

For a lot of people, the sourcing and checking out, flying over and inspecting, driving the car home, registering it and dealing with Customs and VRT office, etc etc, is a big part of the joy of Classic Car ownership, and they wouldn't even consider using my services. But for others, that feel this task is a bit daunting, they can look at the option of using us to take out all the hassle of this proces...

As I said prices include the full package, more or less delivered to your doorstep, but if people are willing to look after the transport, importation etc themselves, then there's a good bit of saving to be made on ALL the cars listed on my site.

And also I have learned through the years to stick exclusively with good to very good cars. It never really pays to try and find the best possible bargain, because unless you are very, very lucky, you will end up putting more money into a ''reasonable' condition car that you could have avoided by going for a good one first time around. Unfortunately Good cars are not easy to find and do come at a price.

B.t.w. I don't think these price guidelines in the UK magazines are very realistic. Let's say, I wish I would be able to pick them up for that sort of money but unfortunately that is not an easy task.

ds20prefecture

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Unfortunately Good cars are not easy to find and do come at a price.

I agree. But as I have found a good price doesn't always guarantee a good car.

BTW: I wouldn't describe that DSuper 5 as "concours". There's minor rust on the LHM tank, the rear bumper has dropped (usually from rusty bumper mounts - easily fixed), the interior is not the original pattern for leather or vinyl, the chrome is missing from the front indicators, the tyres are incorrect and the carpeted boot lining would worry me a little. There's something weird about the front left-hand sill, I don't think it should rise up like that.

I would describe it as a good daily driver candidate, assuming that the frame is sound. Obviously at €17500 it would be well overpriced at that.

Nice looking car, though. The vinyl roof was a popular export market option at the time.

PaulK_CCI

ds20prefecture wrote:

I agree. But as I have found a good price doesn't always guarantee a good car.

BTW: I wouldn't describe that DSuper 5 as "concours". There's minor rust on the LHM tank, the rear bumper has dropped (usually from rusty bumper mounts - easily fixed), the interior is not the original pattern for leather or vinyl, the chrome is missing from the front indicators, the tyres are incorrect and the carpeted boot lining would worry me a little. There's something weird about the front left-hand sill, I don't think it should rise up like that.

I would describe it as a good daily driver candidate, assuming that the frame is sound. Obviously at €17500 it would be well overpriced at that.

Nice looking car, though. The vinyl roof was a popular export market option at the time.

I would aggree with you that the price is extremely high for a DSuper 5, but I have yet to come accross a similar Right Hand Drive DS that is in as good a verified (!!!) condition as this one, and for sale! Of course there are RHD DS's advertised for much, much less, and the pics that go along with such a car might show the car to be in nice condition, but generally I have learnt not to rely exclusively on the pictures, but the car would have to come from a verified source, or have been inspected by same. No good speculating on a boot carpet that looks suspicious, or a bumper that is offsett slightly and conclude that there is most likely rust underneath... You want to rely on the expertise of someone who has actually seen the car and has verified the condition it is in. In this particular case we know exactly where the car is coming from, who has restored it and how, and someone with great expertise of DS's has seen and inspected the car over in New Zealand. I would otherwise have not added the car in the first place.

Granted, I was probably a bit off by labeling the car as Concours. I would say to Irish standards the car would certainly be viewed as concours, but in UK and continental terms, it would be better to label it as Very good.

The usual stuf that is floating around in the UK is not even worth the effort, unless you have a lot of time on yours hands, and a lot of expertise in determining how good or bad (several) restorations have been performed. I am waiting on the details of a few very nice LHD DS's in France that have been selected and inspected by my French Citroen expert, and I will upload them to the page as soon as I have those details in. These cars will be somewhat cheaper than the RHD but would probably still not considered to be cheap. It's highly unlikely that you can nowadays pick up a rock solid, original or carefully restored DS for under 10k... Clean, average to OK-ish condition cars perhaps, but the chances that you will be constantly replacing things here and there, is very high, and because people would buy virtually unseen through me, I must ensure that any prospective purchase is up to scratch so I would only be interested in advertising the better cars to avoid disappointments.

Of course if you do know of any RHD DS's for sale in a verified (!!) similar condition to the one on the website, I would love to be proved wrong!

ds20prefecture

PaulK_CCI wrote:

I would say to Irish standards the car would certainly be viewed as concours, but in UK and continental terms, it would be better to label it as Very good.

What a strange comment. Is it your perception that the Irish market are happier with poorer cars? That's a sad way to treat your target market.
In my experience (admittedly mostly limited to DSs) the quality of cars in Ireland is generally a lot higher than the UK. Granted there are greater numbers of concours cars there, but as a percentage of the total population, the Irish cars are much better. Certainly, other classics I see in places like Blessington car club are generally in excellent condition, with a few concours examples thrown in.

Of course if you do know of any RHD DS's for sale in a verified (!!) similar condition to the one on the website, I would love to be proved wrong!

I know of several vendors in the UK selling similar RHD cars at or below that price, and they have verified the condition just as you have. I know of more examples in South Africa that tend to be very high quality at around €10000. But the problem is that the verification is done by someone they (the vendor) trust, as opposed to someone I trust.

MercMad

I think the point here is that there are very few decent original Irish Classic cars left, but there are a huge number of imports, growing every year .

A large amount of these "domestic" cars come from the UK where by and large they are overdescribed under achievers, and thats before their salted roads are considered. Again buying price and asking prices are always different and eBay is a definite waste of time as far as judging the value of a car is concerned. For example I know of a beautiful and quite rare Merc that was auctioned only to be abought by a Classic specialist who spent VERY little on it and currently has it on his website at DOUBLE the price paid !

Now how do you judge that ?

In Pauls case the cars he offers are "verfied" and accurately described as to their condition. You pay for that piece of mindand for the hassle free experience !

Oldmerc

Pauls service, and it is a service, is worth the price.

His point is fair, the perception of good or concours in Ireland is lower than the US or the continent. Its just a reflection of the amount of money that it ploughed into cars outside Ireland, certainly in the US anyway. We have little history in classic cars but I do accept, perhaps with citreon DS's, that there are exceptions.

Take a walk around Pebble Beach or Goodwood and look at even the best collectors cars in Ireland and there simply is no comparison. Simple ecomomics, both investment now and the fact that the cars were sold in numbers in those countries and there is the expertise and heart to keep them in top condition.

PaulK_CCI

ds20prefecture wrote:

What a strange comment. Is it your perception that the Irish market are happier with poorer cars? That's a sad way to treat your target market.

I'm not sure how you can deduct that as a conclusion to what I said . Of course my perception is not that people in Ireland ARE HAPPIER WITH POORER CARS, I was merely stating the obvious fact that in general the standard of the Classic Cars here in Ireland is NOT as high and as advanced as in other parts of Europe and the United States. The classic car scene is only taking off over the last 5 years or so, which makes it obvious there is not as much happening as in other countries.
To base your claim that the standard in Ireland would be higher than the UK purely limiting it to your experiences with DS's would be a bit biassed to say the least. I base my experiences on visiting numerous shows in Ireland, Holland, Germany, France and the UK over the last 5 years, and visiting (not just looking at their website!!!) Classic Car specialist in Europe, and it's pretty obvious that there are no doubt some absolutely fabulous examples in Ireland, but if you visit the average Classic Car gathering or field day, you see cars that have driven up to the meeting, whereby you wonder how the hell the owner even managed to GET THERE in the first place!!! They would certainly be in a condition that any classic car owner here in Holland feel pretty embarrased about bringing it to a show, purely because the standard is higher.
I'd say judging from your reaction you have clearly never visted say the likes of RetroMobile in France, or the Technica Classica in Essen. The standard of the cars on display is staggering and breathtaking to say the least!!

Another fact is that in all other European countries ALL CARS including classics are subject to the normal MOT/NCT requirement, whereas in Ireland cars over 30 years old are exempt. Which is something I would not feel happy about. The contraptions that I have witnessed at shows would dread me with fear if they were to perform an emergency evasion manouvre on the N11 :eek: there

ds20prefecture wrote:

I know of several vendors in the UK selling similar RHD cars at or below that price, ....

Basically it looks like you are saying here that the price I am asking for the DSuper 5 isn't as ludicrously high as you are making it out to be!!

ds20prefecture wrote:

I know of more examples in South Africa that tend to be very high quality at around €10000. But the problem is that the verification is done by someone they (the vendor) trust, as opposed to someone I trust.

Precisely my point!!! That is why I have learned the hard way to only trust a car unless I have seen it myself, or unless it was inspected by someone I would trust to do so. To be honest, I have looked at a good few South AFrican cars after they had been imported by the respective owners, and a lot of them were certainly not what the car was made out to be. Generally pretty much rustfree, but the mechanics and suspension was usually very poor indeed.

ds20prefecture

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Precisely my point!!! That is why I have learned the hard way to only trust a car unless I have seen it myself, or unless it was inspected by someone I would trust to do so.

And I have learned, the hard way, not to trust an inspection organised by an agent/vendor.

Perhaps I have a jaundiced view of this type of service.

I bought my first DS for €10,000 through an agent who organised the inspection, import and shipping for me. In my naivety, I was initially delighted with the car, even though it was damaged in transit. Over the first couple of days though, a number of issues became apparent and to be safe I had it inspected again by a specialist here. A list of faults, some serious, was found. Eventually, after much haggling, the agent refunded the purchase price of the car, but held onto his commission and the shipping charges, with the promise to find a replacement car and ship it over. Some time passed, and I decided to go source a car for myself. When I found a car, the agent promised to refund 50% of the shipping only. I agreed in order to just close the issue. Apparently the cheque is "in the post" for the last 2 or 3 years, as it never arrived. Overall this experience cost me about €2500 and I was back to square one.

The replacement car I sourced myself through a private seller in Holland and had it inspected by a Citroën specialist in Holland I got to know through Citroën discussion forums. Overall this process cost a little less than my initial budget and I ended up with an excellent car.

It bugs me now to look back and see how gullible I was. I have a strong belief in Karma, though.

TigerTim

Well done, Paul. Great site. Love the Opel GT (except for the Auto box). Must do the Lotto tonight or sell off the wife & kids.:)

Rgds,

Tim

Eoin

Paul,

Great site, just a few comments:

1) There is no need for a splash page (defaultA.asp), and a home page (home.asp). I assumed that the home page link went to the blank splash page, so didn't bother clicking it till much later

2) Maybe think about getting a .ie domain, or at least one that isn't particular to a different country.

3) You might want to consider something like carzone where you can sort the cars by the column headers (e.g. make, model, RHD/LHD, price etc)

4) Have a filter on the guestbook - the latest comment is about how expensive the cars are. Look into only allowing comments to be displayed after you approve them. "snip" any unfavourable comments, and invite them to provide an email address so you can contact them.

Edit: 5) get rid of the JavaScript "back" link. You may end up sending someone away from your site if they click on it. Pretty much all the links you need are on the top bar anyway

Love the site though,

Eoin

PaulK_CCI

Hi eoin_s,

Thanks for your comments. There's a few very valid points there.

eoin_s wrote:

1) There is no need for a splash page (defaultA.asp), and a home page (home.asp). I assumed that the home page link went to the blank splash page, so didn't bother clicking it till much later

I see your point in that not everyone would go to the home page but some people would go directly to the Showroom, missing the buttons by make on the home page. However, the splash pages are part of he new slick design in that it changes into a different screen every time you log onto the site again. Perhaps I should take away the other buttons on the splash pages and only allow people to access the home page from there...

eoin_s wrote:

2) Maybe think about getting a .ie domain, or at least one that isn't particular to a different country.

I am based in the Netherlands, that's why I have a Dutch domain.

eoin_s wrote:

3) You might want to consider something like carzone where you can sort the cars by the column headers (e.g. make, model, RHD/LHD, price etc)

This would mean a total redesign of the website, which is not on the cards. You can search for make and model, and we are working on extending the search facility to allow searching for other strings as well.

eoin_s wrote:

4) Have a filter on the guestbook - the latest comment is about how expensive the cars are. Look into only allowing comments to be displayed after you approve them. "snip" any unfavourable comments, and invite them to provide an email address so you can contact them.

That is a valid point. In this case I have e-mailed the person with my comments, where I explained to him the reason why I felt his comments were not entirely justified and that I had therfore decided to remove the entry.

eoin_s wrote:

Edit: 5) get rid of the JavaScript "back" link. You may end up sending someone away from your site if they click on it. Pretty much all the links you need are on the top bar anyway

Not quite sure what link you mean. Is that the "Back" button in the button bar? I'll pass on your comment to my webpage designer. To let him look into that.

Eoin

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Hi eoin_s,

Thanks for your comments. There's a few very valid points there.


I see your point in that not everyone would go to the home page but some people would go directly to the Showroom, missing the buttons by make on the home page. However, the splash pages are part of he new slick design in that it changes into a different screen every time you log onto the site again. Perhaps I should take away the other buttons on the splash pages and only allow people to access the home page from there...

The problem is that the home page is not the first page you see i.e. you specifically have to click on the home link to see the list of cars.

PaulK_CCI wrote:

I am based in the Netherlands, that's why I have a Dutch domain.

But your target market is over here, so I would at least using a .com address

PaulK_CCI wrote:

This would mean a total redesign of the website, which is not on the cards. You can search for make and model, and we are working on extending the search facility to allow searching for other strings as well.

It shouldn't do - just a change to the showroom page by adding column headers at the top of the page which can be clocked onto sort them. I am assuming that the stock list is database driven, so this should be a small piece of work. I can mock this up for you if you want an example.

PaulK_CCI wrote:

That is a valid point. In this case I have e-mailed the person with my comments, where I explained to him the reason why I felt his comments were not entirely justified and that I had therfore decided to remove the entry.

Good idea, like I said, you may want to consider changing the functionality so the guestbook entries will not appear until specifically approved by yourself

PaulK_CCI wrote:

Not quite sure what link you mean. Is that the "Back" button in the button bar? I'll pass on your comment to my webpage designer. To let him look into that.

That's the one - it uses JavaScript to send the user back to the last page they visited. If that is outside your site, then they will leave your site via a link that you have provided. Not a big deal, but not best practise.

unkel

Hey Paul - so nice to see you back up and running on the new site

FWIW, if I wanted to purchase a classic car, I would ask Paul to sort me out

ds20prefecture wrote:

The replacement car I sourced myself through a private seller in Holland and had it inspected by a Citroën specialist in Holland I got to know through Citroën discussion forums. Overall this process cost a little less than my initial budget and I ended up with an excellent car

Happy ending there

Reading somewhere the other day that there are more registered DSs in the Netherlands than there are in France? I know it has been a superhype in the Netherlands to own / buy / restore / fetch from a farm in France, etc. a DS for what seem to be decades now , but surely, can that figure be right?

Anyway, the more DSs preserved for posterity, the better

Kersh

That Dino looks sweet..... whats the guide price on it...:D

Eoin

PaulK_CCI wrote:

This would mean a total redesign of the website, which is not on the cards. You can search for make and model, and we are working on extending the search facility to allow searching for other strings as well.

Hi Paul, here is an example of what I meant by ordering the showroom:
http://www.seapointrugby.com/attach/CCI.asp (static version, obviously doesn't actually do anything)

I presume that your stock is all database driven, so your developer would just have to change the SQL statement made depending on the option selected.



HTH,

Eoin

alastair

ds20prefecture wrote:

And I have learned, the hard way, not to trust an inspection organised by an agent/vendor.
...
It bugs me now to look back and see how gullible I was. I have a strong belief in Karma, though.

Given the wonders of google, it's not too hard to establish the identity of this mystery dealer. I'm loving the biting of lips all 'round.

Alfasudcrazy

Well I would be of the "Find it yourself" school of thought. Well I enjoy doing my research (even if it may be amateurish) and finding the best price/quality car I can find.
If I buy a dud then there is nobody to blame just me. I don't think I have bought any real duds yet (except that Rover 2200 I bought on Ebay but did not go through with the deal)
I accept there are some people who like the idea of owning a classic but don't have the interest to do all the stuff I do but I still think they are being charged heavily for the service.
Its when these people are selling these classic cars that the penny will drop as in my opinion it will be impossible to recover even two thirds of the price they paid. Still that's capitalism for you.:rolleyes:

Eoin

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I accept there are some people who like the idea of owning a classic but don't have the interest to do all the stuff I do but I still think they are being charged heavily for the service.

I'm afraid I probably am / will be one of those people, but it's not so much laziness or lack of interest, as not having the knowledge or time to do too much leg work myself. Though, I have made up my mind to go to a car show in the UK soon and see what's out there.

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

Its when these people are selling these classic cars that the penny will drop as in my opinion it will be impossible to recover even two thirds of the price they paid. Still that's capitalism for you.:rolleyes:

Having bought an 00 Alfa a couple of years ago, this is by no means a shock to me (Though I would imagine a classic, if maintained etc, should not lose much value - if not increase in value)

Dades

Alfasudcrazy wrote:

I accept there are some people who like the idea of owning a classic but don't have the interest to do all the stuff I do but I still think they are being charged heavily for the service.... Still that's capitalism for you.

As long as there are people willing to pay for a service, then who cares. It's no different than a personal shopper or a wedding planner.

You might ask why people are paying someone to find them a car, and others will wonder why you drive around in a old "banger" when you could drive a nice comfortable, quiet, reliable car.

prospect

I like the new site.

I think wether you think classic car buyers should source the cars themselves, or not, Paul is just providing a service for people who not have the knowledge/experience/guts/balls/time/inclination to source, register, ship their own cars, etc.

But Paul, stop avoiding the important question:
How bloody much for the Dino (approx)

Dades

prospect wrote:

But Paul, stop avoiding the important question:
How bloody much for the Dino (approx)

Absolutely!

Was drooling last night at home over the Dino in this months Classic & Sports Car feature.
Mmmmmm Dino.

Kersh

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......... dino........... *drool

PaulK_CCI

prospect wrote:

I like the new site.

I think wether you think classic car buyers should source the cars themselves, or not, Paul is just providing a service for people who not have the knowledge/experience/guts/balls/time/inclination to source, register, ship their own cars, etc.

But Paul, stop avoiding the important question:
How bloody much for the Dino (approx)

I should really come up with the stock answer here, "If you need to know the price, you probably won't be able to afford it!", but I'd say that's a bit lame really :rolleyes: so here it is:

Price tag for this beauty, from a very, very good Ferrari specialist in the Netherlands is 72,500 euro's.