F.L.A.G. mandate

FLAG

Attached is extracts from the 2nd stage debate of the CJB, I am delighted to report the Minister putting on the record the positive contributions made by the shooting organisations namely the NARGC and the SSAI. It is particularly pleasing to be recognised by the Minister for making positive contributions to the pending changes. Perhaps it may enlighten some of our critics that we truly have made a positive impact with government.

skellig

In regard to personal feelings getting you poor PR or respect you have that one correct and as i know you i have a feeling you cant teach an old dog new tricks

In regard to the doj keeping an eye on boards its all the more reason to stay off.Talk about waking up and smelling the coffee "come on" ! ! !

As for sparks question "I know" you cant ans it because (providing you ans truthfully)it would really muck you up ! !

You have been sniping at the midlnds range .what other range is there in the midlands worth mentioning especially to invite to if there is let me know (doubt it very much) I wont insult anyones intelligence by explaining that one flag

---

how strong has the coffee to be! ! !

It is my opinion that flag had nothing to do with bringing back any pistol \any other firearm of interest to the shooters of ireland At least the midland range has facilitaed the most important ingredient a range not waffle

As for you and the official of the doj not allowed visit the mrc range this is an out and out lie !! Would you care to rephrase that statement how pathetic can you get . Im calling now on an official of the mrc to back m e up on my statements and put everyone in the know as to how it really is.
From what i have heard if half of it is true then flag hang your head in shame !
It is my belief when you stood in the bog you recommended a lorry trailer to shoot out of at the time (paddywack set up) thanks a lot !


Whatever about North County Dublin being a successful visit (well it would have to be its inside the pale) im not so sure your visit to Northern Ireland was what you expected.

FLAG DO US ALL A FAVOUR AND DISSOLVE YOURSELF

FLAG

Clearly you are poorly informed, read what the Minister had written into the record of the House of the Oireachtas with respect to our discussions with the DOJ since 1995 and how we have represented the sport.

From the tone of your post you are really not a nice person and one that I am very glad that I do not have any dealings with. I and my colleagues who have been the core negotiation group with the DOJ and the Gardai have a lot to be proud of and how dare an an anonominous faceless individual such as you make such harsh statements about anyone particularly as you are clearly unaware of our activities over the years.

civdef

OK, here we go again..

If people are going to start accusing others of lying, it's a lot fairer for all involved if they don't do so anonymously when the target of the accusations has made their identity known.

Riggser

If you have a serious comment to make to another board member sending a private message to that person(s) might be the best option for all.

This thread is on it's way to being closed.

Clare gunner

"The first item on any organisations agenda in Ireland.The Split"
Brendan Behan

Whilst there has never been and quite obvisouly never will be any eye to eye seeing between FLAG and Sparks .It is a GREAT pity that two obvisouly knowledgeable people would try an cooperate to advance the shooting sports in Ireland.:(
But,I have to say this is very Irish.We are all fighting amongst ourselves,and somone else can walk in and take over or legislate for us for our "own good".
Dont worry though,any organisation I have ever been involved in from scuba diving,flying,shooting to professional organisations have ALL had this kind of nonsensical infighting and point scoring.When somthing goes right everyone wants the credit.When it goes wrong everyone lays the blame on each other.Amazes me we as a nation ever get anything done at all.But then if our esteemed"leaders" are still fighting the civil war in the Dail,can we expect no other in the pouplation?:rolleyes:
So I wouldnt be too worried about the DOJ ,antis,GCN,New world order,etc reading this board.They will see we are no different than anyone else on being unified or capable of organising the proverbial drinking session in a brewery.Nor do I think they are going to discover any crucial top secret info on an open forum.So unless we start posting budgets,alt contingency plans etc ,let them look.I mean ,WE can read their boards too.;)

So folks can we come to some sort of consensus about things?Like maybe a sticky thread where we can air personal opinions,moans and groans etc about each other and keep the remainder of the threads revelant and factual to their topics,more or less?

skellig

"poorly informed" the minister and house of oireachtas believe that and youd believe anything no wonder you got nowhere. Politics and truth dont always mix! thought everyone knew that.


In regard to me not being a nice person (well a boo hoo) everyone has to handle controversy and by the way I
am actually a very nice person but I speak as I find warts and all!!!!!!!


I know you mean well and I do appreciate your efforts for the sport whether I agree with your system or not .

Just lay off the Midlands thats all . Lets try and keep it proffessional and not get emotional and the best of luck to all invovled in the interest of our sport

cycllops

All,

It seems to me that we have a huge variation in opinion, and we also have many different representative bodies. There is no unity, due to the parocialism of the irish psyche, and the vested interests of all involved.
Live with it, and hope for the best...


My background...

Age 37
Live in mid Cork
2 Shotguns - clays and game.
1 22lr
1 centrefire
member of MRC. Make regular treks up the country
not a member of a local game club - can't house a dog, and closed shop anyway.

Since I was 17.
.Lost 400 acres thanks to development and a golf course.
.Lost 100 acres thanks to an idiot falling on a farmers land and attempting to claim. He was trespassing by the way!.
.Cork county is full of bungalows! you can use 22s and shotguns. Try and shoot centrefire!


I read the ISD, and all I see is acrimony between affiliated clubs. Dirty linen in public. All forms of PROs /Chairmen should be elected for people skills, and not to fill dead mens shoes, or loyalty.


I appreciate the efforts of all people who have taken on / worked with the DOJ. We are in a very different position today compared to 1986 when I started. Thank you all


And by the way, I have no problems with choice, but for gods sake stop harping on about .50 cal rifles and H&K semi/full autos. What is the point. If you need need that kind of stimulation buy Guns and Ammo, or if serious Join an army.


Keep it positive. We are gaining ground. We will lose it if we keep having these hissy fits.


yours in frustration,


cycllops

boudica

Amen To That, Cycllops

jaycee

Well said that man..:cool:

Rovi

And I'd like to second that, mister chairman.

Although, I want to see what sort of scope mount he has on the rifle.
What with his one eye, and all-




Hi cycllops, welcome!

.

cycllops

very very close resemblance.

at least I dont need to keep one eye closed when scoping...

Gallery

Sparks wrote:

You've noone but yourself to blame for that Declan. I was there at the NRPAI AGM a few years ago when the MRC came to the NRPAI asking for a fullbore NGB under the auspices of the NRPAI. You personally were amongst the first to turn them down flat. If they had a need and the NRPAI wouldn't fill it, did you think they'd just go away? And now they are the internationally accredited NGB and the sport's administration is even more complicated.

Who are an Internationally Accredited NGB ? News to me and I am involved in the sport with 30 years. The only NGB for rifle and pistol shooting is the NRPAI (SSAI).

Lads its about time Sparks and Flag got their act together. It's painful at this stage - Sparks, take a back seat for a while. The sport could do with your knowledge in a positive light.

Also where did the NRAI come from ? Are they recognised by the ISC and other bodies.

jaycee

Who are an Internationally Accredited NGB ?

the NRAI are recognised by the N.R.A.U.K.

boudica

Welcome Gallery, Hows Every Body In Cork.

You Must Have Your Head Stuck In The Sand Down There,
Educate Yourself, And Read This Very Carefuly: And Repeat After Me.

The National Rifle Association Of Ireland (N.R.A.I.) Is The NGB In The Republic Of Ireland For (1) Long Range Target Rifle,
(2) F-class And
(3) Match Rifle

The NRPAI/SSAI Had There Chance Some Years Ago, When Asked By M.N.S.C.I..to Set Up A Committee To Organise Long Range Rifle Shooting In Ireland, It Was Refused by N.R.P.A.I.

So If You Are Around For Thirty Years, Where Have You Been.

Sparks Is Still Waiting For Flag To Answer Many Of His Questions???

Being Recognised By The ISC Is In Hand, As Are A Lot Of Other Things To Do With Long Range Rifle Shooting.


N.R.A.I. Was Born Out Of The Members At M.N.S.C.I.. It Is Recognise By International Confederation Of Fullbore Rifle Associations (I.C.F.R.A..) Which The NRAI Have A Seat And Voting Rights On.

Other Countrys Which Recognise The NRAI Are N.R.A.U.K..-South Africa America-germany-france Etc,etc.

THE N.R.A.I. ARE HERE TO STAY, I REPEAT "ARE HERE TO STAY," SHALL I SHOUT IT LOUDER,ARE HERE TO STAY

SO FLAG, NRPAI/SSAI AND LRRA CAN GO AND...............UNLESS THEY WANT TO JOIN THE NRAI OF COURSE

SO WHERE " HAVE" YOU BEEN FOR THE LAST 30 YEARS

X THE GOURGOUS BOUDICA

MP

boudica wrote:

Welcome Gallery, Hows Every Body In Cork.

You Must Have Your Head Stuck In The Sand Down There,
Educate Yourself, And Read This Very Carefuly: And Repeat After Me.

The National Rifle Association Of Ireland (N.R.A.I.) Is The NGB In The Republic Of Ireland For (1) Long Range Target Rifle,
(2) F-class And
(3) Match Rifle

The NRPAI/SSAI Had There Chance Some Years Ago, When Asked By M.N.S.C.I..to Set Up A Committee To Organise Long Range Rifle Shooting In Ireland, It Was Refused by N.R.P.A.I.

So If You Are Around For Thirty Years, Where Have You Been.

Sparks Is Still Waiting For Flag To Answer Many Of His Questions???

Being Recognised By The ISC Is In Hand, As Are A Lot Of Other Things To Do With Long Range Rifle Shooting.


N.R.A.I. Was Born Out Of The Members At M.N.S.C.I.. It Is Recognise By International Confederation Of Fullbore Rifle Associations (I.C.F.R.A..) Which The NRAI Have A Seat And Voting Rights On.

Other Countrys Which Recognise The NRAI Are N.R.A.U.K..-South Africa America-germany-france Etc,etc.

THE N.R.A.I. ARE HERE TO STAY, I REPEAT "ARE HERE TO STAY," SHALL I SHOUT IT LOUDER,ARE HERE TO STAY

SO FLAG, NRPAI/SSAI AND LRRA CAN GO AND...............UNLESS THEY WANT TO JOIN THE NRAI OF COURSE

SO WHERE YOU BEEN THE LAST 30 YEARS

WOW! What a reply, it should go a long way to recruiting new members to the NRAI. Think of the anger flowing through boudica's body right now. Wouldn't you just love to be in the company of the members of the NRAI on a range with firearms and ammunition? What a bloodbath there could be! Send me an application form,quick. Incidentally, isn't the I.C.F.R.A. made up of permanent members from the Commonwealth and other countries are associate members? Can you clarify ,please.

boudica

Well Mp My Hormones Are A Little Bouncy At The Moment So I Am A Little Tetchey. And All You Big Boys Out There Are So Big And Strong??????

But Mp, What Ever You Think You Know, Guess Who's Going To The World Championships IN F-CLASS, ETC, ETC. WHAT 'S YOUR ADDRESS FOR AN APPLICATION FORM.
The Gourgous Boudica X

skellig

To Be Honest I Think Its Flag That Should Take A Back Seat And Perhaps After An Appropriate Break And Rest He Might Be Able To Answer Sparks Questions!!!!!!


Quote:: "where Did The N.r.a.i Come From " Where Have You Been Hibernating Or What???:(
I Also Have Been Shooting For Thirty Years And That Includes All Type Of Shooting, Deer Stalking,game Shooting ,target Shooting Etc.
For Twenty Five Of Those Years I Never Heard Of Or Knew Anything About The N.r.p.a.i (what Does That Tell You )

However I Think Things Are Changing For The Sport Of Shooting More Shooters Are Getting Involved In Target Shooting And This Has To Be A Good Thing.-- Wouldnt You Agree?

In Regards To Recognition For N.r.a.i From The I.s.c And S.s.a.i Personally I Think "who Cares " At The End Of The Day Its What The Shooters Care For Thats A Hell Of A Lot More Important ---dont You Think!!!!!!!!!

skellig

I cant blame Boudica for getting frustrated although his good humour remains intact! He is propably fed up wondering how long it takes for some to understand the N.R.A.I set up.
Its not rocket science !!!!!!
AS for recruiting new members to the N.R.A.I (all these questions and confusion )its great publicity you know long may it last !!!!!

ps ----doubt the M.n.s.c.i would facilitate an application from a blood bath lover do you???

boudica

Amen To That Skellig. DO NOT CALL ME HE, I 'M A GIRL, CAN U NOT SEE THAT YOU SILLY MAN/BOY. THE GOURGOUS BOUDICA

Gallery

MP wrote:

WOW! What a reply, it should go a long way to recruiting new members to the NRAI. Think of the anger flowing through boudica's body right now. Wouldn't you just love to be in the company of the members of the NRAI on a range with firearms and ammunition? What a bloodbath there could be! Send me an application form,quick. Incidentally, isn't the I.C.F.R.A. made up of permanent members from the Commonwealth and other countries are associate members? Can you clarify ,please.

Boudica - thanks for the welcome.

Hey, less of the "sharpness". All shooting sports needs representation. I don't visit the "boards" that often, mainly because of the negativity. There is no room for conflict such as the "natter" going on within the boards facility.

We are a minority sport and with time it will increase in size. We all need each other - and we may very well need each other when the CJ Bill comes out in March 2006. "unity is Strength".

Relax everyone and think about that one.

Sparks

Gallery wrote:

We all need each other - and we may very well need each other when the CJ Bill comes out in March 2006. "unity is Strength".
Relax everyone and think about that one.

True Unity is Strength, Gallery. What we've seen in the past from the NRPAI was a long way from Unity. You think I'm bored, perhaps? That I don't have a dozen other things in the sport I could do rather than what we've had to do here? You'd be incorrect! But as I've said here a dozen times or more, if we are to stand together, we have to be able to stand - not be subservient to a council we don't elect, who follow no set of rules, not even those they draft themselves, and who have everyone's best interests at heart, rather than the daft and destructive things that were done in the past!

You show me a lobby group that's independent of any specific discipline and which exists solely to lobby for all shooter's interests in the most effective and pragmatic manner (in both the short and long terms) and I'll back it and put my hand in my pocket to support it, like I did with FLAG when it was first announced. But after seeing what FLAG became, you'll have a nontrivial job to convince me of such a body's independence and expertise. To say nothing of the job you'll have convincing the NARGC and ICPSA...

boudica

So You Are From Cork. There Are Three Words That I Can Lock On To In Your Last Entry: unity,strenght And Representation.
But Can The Hatchet Be Well And Truly buried???

Leupold

Boudica, why don't you and the other founders of the NRAI approach the SSAI again to merge? I am sure that no one is too proud to put their own feelings before the good of our sport.

Leupold

If so, here is another question for you to answer. See above.

boudica

Leupold wrote:

Boudica, why don't you and the other founders of the NRAI approach the SSAI again to merge? I am sure that no one is too proud to put their own feelings before the good of our sport.

We come back to the begining, leo,where the NRAI was born. when did nrpai/ssai/flag ever put the menbers of the MNSCI before their personal feelings, when they refused to organise fulbore target shooting in ireland.

ONCE BITTEN TWICE SHY, TO BE REFUSED AGAIN BY THE NRPAI/SSAI. I DONT THINK SO. OUR MEMBERS CONTROL THEIR OWN DESTINY NOW.

LET THE SSAI APPROACH US.

Leupold

boudica wrote:

We come back to the begining, leo,where the NRAI was born. when did nrpai/ssai/flag ever put the menbers of the MNSCI before their personal feelings, when they refused to organise fulbore target shooting in ireland.

ONCE BITTEN TWICE SHY, TO BE REFUSED AGAIN BY THE NRPAI/SSAI. I DONT THINK SO. OUR MEMBERS CONTROL THEIR OWN DESTINY NOW.

LET THE SSAI APPROACH US.

You keep making this statement Boudica even though it is untrue. The MNSCI wanted to set up a new body to handle long range shooting but was advised that the Sports Council did not want to deal with any more bodies. In these circumstances, the obvious thing to do was to set up a body under one of the existing organisations affilaited to the NRPAI such as the NASRC whose mandate would have covered the sport of long range target shooting. This was the advice given to the MNSCI, not rejection. The passage of time has resulted in this advice being cast in a very different light from the way it was given because it suited the recipients. This has led to the current sad situation.

Sparks

The MNSCI wanted to set up a new body to handle long range shooting but was advised that the Sports Council did not want to deal with any more bodies. In these circumstances, the obvious thing to do was to set up a body under one of the existing organisations affilaited to the NRPAI such as the NASRC whose mandate would have covered the sport of long range target shooting. This was the advice given to the MNSCI, not rejection.

That's not just inaccurate with regard to the ISC, Leupold (the ISC then and now wanted to deal only with a single umbrella body, the NRPAI - the number of constituent NGBs within that body wouldn't have affected the ISC in the slightest); but it does not tally with what I saw with my own eyes in an NRPAI AGM about four or five years ago, as I've stated elsewhere.