[article] Judge Throw 'L' Cases Out Of Court

Supercell

Well, I have L plates up and so far have found that people generally seem to give me a bit more space (sensibly..I used to always steer well clear of learner drivers when I used a mbike) than others..I hope its not just because my driving is so obviously learnerish!!

Perhaps its the perpetual scowl of concentration on my face and skinhead haircut that prevents them acting the bóllix !

I certainly feel having them up gives me a little more room for error than would be the case with them down, so wont be taking them off any time soon.

Jumpy

Longfield wrote:

I certainly feel having them up gives me a little more room for error than would be the case with them down, so wont be taking them off any time soon.

Yay, somone with some responsibility.

This is exactly what they are for.

Still they should take note from other countries and have two sets, like my description of P and L plates above.

L plates are strictly for newbies, to get them you need to pass a written exam (touchscreen exam now) then a year later you can sign for your test and if you pass you get your P's.

You dont need to be hugely careful of P platers, because you know they passed the test, but they occasionally do seem to be full of invincible confidence.

hawker

I would like to add a small couple of points to the conversation.

I do think L plated drivers are treated a lot differently on the roads than full licence drivers. I believe drivers are more agressive towards L plated drivers. Remember folks we were all L plated drivers at one stage.

Secondly this rule of having a provisional driver accompanied is very confusing. In a split second situation on a dual carriageway how is a fully licensed person going to help a provisional driver while sitting in the passenger seat?

jlang

In my opinion, the only sensible answer to most of the problems of L-drivers will be to test them and reduce the waiting time for a test. Until the wait is down to not more than a month, the same complaints will be heard. Then, the L-plates will signal exactly what they should - someone who is learning, not someone who's in their fourth year driving, waiting for their second test because they failed the first on a technicality (or, and I know this happens - good drivers who perversely wait to apply for their test because they're afraid to fail and be put to the back of the 14 month queue).

Seth Brundle

hawker wrote:

Secondly this rule of having a provisional driver accompanied is very confusing. In a split second situation on a dual carriageway how is a fully licensed person going to help a provisional driver while sitting in the passenger seat?

good point and Im not sure of the logic. I think it was meant to allow a licenced driver take someone out for lessons rather than to go touring Ireland.
However, the role of the licenced driver I believe is to help the prov driver avoid situations where a split second decision is necessary.

Alun

hawker wrote:

I do think L plated drivers are treated a lot differently on the roads than full licence drivers. I believe drivers are more agressive towards L plated drivers. Remember folks we were all L plated drivers at one stage.

The problem is, though, that an L-plate means absolutely nothing here any more. In the UK, if you see an L-plate, it's pretty much a certainty that (shock, horror) it's actually a learner driver, who is out there with someone who is qualified, actually engaged in the process of learning to drive.

Here it can mean anything from someone who is taking their very first foray out onto the roads, to someone who has just had two lessons and feels he is "just grand" to be out driving alone, to someone who just can't be @arsed to take a test and has been driving on a provisional licence for 10 years or more.

Personally, I'll honk my horn or stick a finger up (if that's what you call being aggressive) at absolutely anyone who acts like a complete maggot and puts my life at risk by his actions, whether they're displaying an L-plate or not ... no distinction there.

Seth Brundle

Alun wrote:

Here it can mean anything...
<snip>

you forgot those who drive with L plates up but are not in fact learners, e.g. a prov drivers parent who couldn't be arsed taking the sticker down.
This is also illegal!

Alun

hawker wrote:

Secondly this rule of having a provisional driver accompanied is very confusing. In a split second situation on a dual carriageway how is a fully licensed person going to help a provisional driver while sitting in the passenger seat?

How is it confusing? The licenced person is supposed to be actively engaged in the process of teaching the learner (I dislike the term "provisional driver") how to drive, not just sit there and stare out of the window, or fall asleep. In short, they're supposed to be one step ahead of you, and preventing you getting in a situation like that in the first place.

They are also supposed to be closely observing what you do, giving you advice, looking around for potential hazards that you may have overlooked and drawing your attention to them, etc. etc. In short, just what a professional driving instructor would do. A lot of people who accompany learner drivers possibly aren't capable of doing this properly, in which case maybe they should think twice about doing it, and hand the job over to someone who is.

hawker

Alun wrote:

How is it confusing? The licenced person is supposed to be actively engaged in the process of teaching the learner (I dislike the term "provisional driver") how to drive, not just sit there and stare out of the window, or fall asleep. In short, they're supposed to be one step ahead of you, and preventing you getting in a situation like that in the first place.

They are also supposed to be closely observing what you do, giving you advice, looking around for potential hazards that you may have overlooked and drawing your attention to them, etc. etc. In short, just what a professional driving instructor would do. A lot of people who accompany learner drivers possibly aren't capable of doing this properly, in which case maybe they should think twice about doing it, and hand the job over to someone who is.

I don't disagree with any of your points. However in a split second decision, I would think that a learner driver does the first thing that enters their head, which is brake. This is not always the best option as you know.

I was once a learner driver and really believe that others drivers attitudes towards learners are more aggresive. I also belive the big car/small car syndrome is rampant in this country. I have a two car household (essential with kids) where one is a small car and other is a medium sizedfamily car. Whenever I am driving the small car I notice that others drivers tend to give you less space. Anyone else noticed this?

sutty

Ok, after reading this, I can see that some people are areguring over samantics and word play.

First of. I am a prov driver. I'm on my second Prov licence. I have been driving a bike for my two licence's. However I have started driving a car there 2 months ago. (Only taken 5 lessons so far as I dont have my own car to drive)

I have often drive my bike on the M50, things I have noticed are this. Yes L plate drivers do drive on the M50. Yes EVERYONE on a motor way tends to drive to close to the person infront of them. For those of you that say "I am a full driver and I know what I am doing" Here is a two part question. 1 what disatance should you leave between you and the car infront when traviling at motorway speeds. 2.. Do you and how do you know you are the correct distance.

Stopping distances in them-selfs are a joke. Seeing as all cars have different stopping distances. However the driver also needs time to react to the danger ahead.

Next, the fact that a prov licence driver can go into the testing center, not aloud to drive on a motorway, and then leave being aloud is a joke. This person will have no experance on the motorway and will be more of a danger than a "L" driver who has driven on them before.

As for Experacned drivers (I'll call them that, but I mean fully licenced drivers) having to accompany a "L" driver. on their 1st prv licence is also a bit foolish. I dont know one fully licenced driver that has sliped into some very bad habits of driving after getting their test done.

In my opinon, I think new prov drivers should be made sit the Theroy test as well as take a introduction course that they need to pass in order to get a prov licence for the first time.

Seth Brundle

I think what it should come down to is the fact that the system needs to be totally overhauled from one where driving is a right to one where driving is a privilige.
However, this will not happen for a long, long time because of government unwillingness to upset unions, voters, etc.