Su council meetings have gone mad!

panda100

This is one of the motions that was put forward at the last student union council meeting. Council notes that UCDSU has an anti-deportation mandate. Council notes that as a result of this mandate, UCDSU established an Anti-Deportation Campaign.
Council notes that at a peaceful ADC blockade at the Garda National Immigration Bureau against the mass deportation that took place on October 18th,
3rd Arts student Dara McHugh was arrested and is due in court on Thursday, October 27th.
Council notes the duty of UCDSU to defend its members and the role of UCDSU in campaigning against deportations.
Council mandates the payment of up to 500 euro towards Dara's legal costs and, if convicted, possible fine.
Council mandates UCDSU members to attend court in solidarity with Dara under the UCDSU banner.
Proposed by Conor McGowan, 4th year Engineering (Mechanical).
Seconded by Darren Cogavin, 3rd Social Science.

Does anyone know if it got passed or anything cos it is sheer maddness.We shouldnt be paying this guys legal fee's!Ok he did a noble gesture by going to the anti-deportation rally but the union shouldnt be spending its money on him when he got himself into this mess-its funny how not all of the hundred of other people who were at this 'peaceful' rally got arrested.Im sure he can do his own fundraising and the people who are in ucd who want to support him can but this should have nothing to do with the union.

padser

blooody F*&^%$£ stupid wa$%^&£ spending my ******* money on that Cr&*. I really really REALLY dislike the left wing tendencies of the union!!


I am....as you probably gather.....quite annoyed

rainbow kirby

*facepalm*
That's all I gotta say.

Syth

I'm curious what he got arrested for.

ferdi

eh, **** this bull ****! the su council should be looking after the students in THIS college and lobbing for a better deal in regard to fees, prices on campus, book availability, res and generally making college life a bit easier for the run-of-the-mill students of ucd

they are elected, they should work for us not these personal commie agendas!!!! ****ing **** **** mother****ers. sorry but this really pisses me off.

Red Alert

yes i've said this time and time again. i'm a left winger in many ways, but any left-winginess in the union is to be confined to THIS college alone. join and participate in USI to look after national issues and allow concerns in general to be done that way. 500 euro's is too much to give anybody for legal fees, he got arrested fair and square and that's his problem to deal with - does the union have a 'break the law' policy?

irlrobins

This is why i hate the SU. What a waste of time, deportation is not an issue that affects the average UCD student.

GRRR!!!

Vainglory

irlrobins wrote:

This is why i hate the SU. What a waste of time, deportation is not an issue that affects the average UCD student.

GRRR!!!

There were quite a few UCD students who were facing deportation threats two years ago. They'd probably disagree with that.

Dara McHugh's fine was 60 euro and that's all that was paid.

Just clarifying.

irlrobins

what? 5 out of 16000? Hardly significant.

60e? should have paid it himself.

Vainglory

5 out of 16,000? I'm not sure what statistics you're referring to there.
If it's UCD students, there are 22,000 of them.

And whether it's one student or fifty, if they're being threatened with deportation then they have a reasonable expectation that their Union will campaign actively in opposition to this.

irlrobins

Vainglory wrote:

5 out of 16,000? I'm not sure what statistics you're referring to there.
If it's UCD students, there are 22,000 of them.

And whether it's one student or fifty, if they're being threatened with deportation then they have a reasonable expectation that their Union will campaign actively in opposition to this.

22,000 it is.

Dunno about opposing their deportation. If they have no legal right to be here, then I'm not sure why the Union should support them. I mean if I'm convicted of drunk driving I'm sure the Union won't come to support me.

Maybe I'm comparing chalk with cheese.

combat_sombo

fair play vainglory, do your best to justify this.

Vainglory

UCDSU is an organisation that has democratically decided policy, and one of those policies is to oppose deportations especially in situations where compassionate leave to remain is a factor. Once someone has begun studying in a third level institution then that's a pretty good case to be allowed to remain and to get a qualification which can work for them and for the economy as a whole in the future.

All these students who were facing deportation were members of the Student Union and hence are entitled to be represented by those elected to represent them the same way that you or I are.

If there was ever a question of whether we "should" be doing this or not then that was decided on by a vote, as was the Dara McHugh fine. And as much as you may disagree with it, there'd be a hell of a lot more uproar if the Union started ignoring votes that were passed than there is when people disagree with democratically decided outcomes, which is of course their right.

All this shrieking about "the law, the law, it's against the law so we should never support it" deserves to be challenged too. The Irish deportation system is in direct contravention to the Geneva Convention which Ireland is signed up to. It was also against the law for Rosa Parks to refuse to give up her seat for a white person at the front of the bus in Alabama. But that doesn't make it right. Dissent is our right and we as a union can express that if we so wish via democratic means.

m1ke

On the deportation issue, mistakes have been known to happen. Remember a student was recently flown back from Nigeria because of an error that was later acknowledged. I would be disgusted to find out that UCDSU had not made representations on behalf of any students facing possible deportation. It is an issue that effects students and supporting demonstrations is entirely legitimate. Those who think it isn't are either too wrapped up in an old 20th century bog-idea of Ireland or some greed ridden celtic tiger b.s.

ghostchant

Was the guy who got arrested representing UCDSU? I didn't hear any mention of this protest prior to it happening from the union. So I'm guessing he was there representing himself. If that's the case then there's no justification in paying his fine. That's like the SU paying for my electricity bill, or something like that.

Vainglory

He is a UCDSU member and the action was in support of UCDSU policy.

ghostchant

If I went to the coca-cola factory and started causing trouble, would the SU pay my legal costs?

please no-one interpret that as a threat to actually cause trouble at the coke factory...I love coke :cool:

Mr.Nice Guy

This is absolutely disgraceful.

Why is our money being spent on this guy? Let him face the consequences of his own actions.

This guy has a political view which differs to mine yet he dips into MY pocket to sort HIS problems out. Madness.

As I and many others have been saying all along, it's about bloody time the Union took a NEUTRAL STANCE on political matters.

boneless

Did you all participate in the SU elections? Did you all vote? Did any of you consider going for election?

The SU is only as good as the memberships participation.

BTW, I agree that the fine should be paid by the SU; they had a mandate to set up the anti-deportation group.

irlrobins

nope. Got fed up of all these over eager people taking the time to come into the lecture theatre canvassing for votes, handing out flyers etc when they were trying to be elected.

Once elected did we ever see them come back into the same theatre to update us on what they're achieving or anything? Nope, hiding away in the SU office everyone of them.

What proportion of the electorate voted in the last SU elections? out of interest.

Red Alert

i voted in each and every SU election since i arrived in UCD - it's sad that people don't because then the union is left at the mercy of some people who try and usurp it for every cock and bull idea under the sun.

i discussed this deportation thing with a friend of mine who's heavily involved in amnesty international in another college. she says that the SU's role in all this should have been just a welfare one - advising, counselling and assisting (financially [that's ok!]) the students in question. organisations like amnesty (and a whole load of others) do great work campaigning about deportation and the like. if the SU stuck to dealing with student issues and saved big protests for things such as fees that affect all students things would be much better - as people who are really interested in issues such as deportation and human rights will do a much better job campaigning on them.

beanyb

irlrobins wrote:

Once elected did we ever see them come back into the same theatre to update us on what they're achieving or anything? Nope, hiding away in the SU office everyone of them.

In fairness to this years sabbats, they're doing a much better job than last years. There's plenty of Union activity about the place this year whether its a campaign or the bands playing every week.

And this is coming from someone who couldnt be less of an SU hack and who didnt bother to vote in the elections.

arbeitsscheuer

beanyb wrote:

In fairness to this years sabbats, they're doing a much better job than last years. There's plenty of Union activity about the place this year whether its a campaign or the bands playing every week.

Spot on. Fair play, after what was, imo, a pretty abysmal SU last year, with the exception of Scully, the Pres. Ironically, this year all the Sabbats have pulled their weight and really worked hard for us... With the exception of Carroll, the Pres.:D :rolleyes:

Still, probably better this way.

ferdi

yes this years SU at least is more active than last year but the sabbats are getting paid to work so they wont be getting any medals from me for doing their jobs.

Dave!

rainbow kirby wrote:

*facepalm*
That's all I gotta say.

Seconded.

Why did the guy get arrested, Vainglory? Surely if he's appearing in court over it, he must have done something illegal. I don't mind the SU rallying about deportation so much, but a member does something illegal, gets arrested, and you're spending our money to bail him out?!

What did he do? And should I expect the SU to pay for my legal costs should I get in trouble?

It sounds to me like the bloke's got loads of mates in the upper echelon of the SU, and they're using the Union's funds to help him. I'm probably wrong though.

Syth

I wonder can one leave the student's union. I'm going to see if I can. Just for the laugh. And to get some money back.

I think it would be a good way to force the union to become more relevant to the general student. If it was easy to leave the union and get your €30 or so in fees back, then I reckon loads of people would leave. The hacks would be left with a tiny union with a tiny mandate from the students and feck all budget. It would force them to make the union matter to most people.

That'd be democracy.

Mr.Nice Guy

Syth wrote:

I wonder can one leave the student's union. I'm going to see if I can. Just for the laugh. And to get some money back.

I think it would be a good way to force the union to become more relevant to the general student. If it was easy to leave the union and get your €30 or so in fees back, then I reckon loads of people would leave. The hacks would be left with a tiny union with a tiny mandate from the students and feck all budget. It would force them to make the union matter to most people.

That'd be democracy.

You have my vote!

Actually, would there be a way to set up another round of elections? Let's say a bunch of students demand the right to leave?

I'm sure it has happened before for a by-election. I'd love to see anti-Union candidates run for the Union!

ferdi

great idea, i'd say loads of people would want to leave - the average student would far prefer 30euro in their pockets rather than whatever the union does for them (tumbleweed..)

Dave!

Someone (not me) should start up their own seperate group that acts like the SU, only doesn't do all this anti-deportation crap! Have a little coup d'etat! It'd be great! Seriously, would that not work though? Just start up a seperate group, charge a bit of money to join, and get to work advertising, arguing for the students, etc.

I think that'd be cool :cool:

ferdi

you'd have no recognition from the college so you'd be powerless

Mr.Nice Guy

ferdi wrote:

you'd have no recognition from the college so you'd be powerless

Let's say you and a bunch of others ran in the elections, won, and then decided to carry out your work away from the Union? Technically you're part of the union but at the same time you're showing your opposition to them. Would that be feasible?

Rogue union members so to speak. That would be cool!