Su council meetings have gone mad!

Dave!

I honestly think that it would be a good idea for someone to set up an alternative union for people who don't agree with the SU's politics to join. I'd do it myself only I'm not good at this sort of thing... and I don't know anybody, lol... But a group of people with knowledge in this sort of stuff should set up a seperate union. It can't be ignored if it gets enough people to join.

EDIT:

BTW, anybody see the story in one of the student papers today about the SU organising a boycott for a Chemistry exam because the students didn't get enough time to study for it? Seems like them doing a good job, in theory, but then you read more and it says how the SU President speaking at the protest said, "there's nothing we can do to make you boycott the exam, except never speak to you again." F*cking ridiculous. About 1/3 of the class wanted to do the exam! And loads were p*ssed off that they were being intimidated by the SU.

Mr.Nice Guy

DaveMcG wrote:

I honestly think that it would be a good idea for someone to set up an alternative union for people who don't agree with the SU's politics to join. I'd do it myself only I'm not good at this sort of thing... and I don't know anybody, lol... But a group of people with knowledge in this sort of stuff should set up a seperate union. It can't be ignored if it gets enough people to join.

I agree Dave. I'd be interested in helping out such a group.

Dave McG wrote:

BTW, anybody see the story in one of the student papers today about the SU organising a boycott for a Chemistry exam because the students didn't get enough time to study for it? Seems like them doing a good job, in theory, but then you read more and it says how the SU President speaking at the protest said, "there's nothing we can do to make you boycott the exam, except never speak to you again." F*cking ridiculous. About 1/3 of the class wanted to do the exam! And loads were p*ssed off that they were being intimidated by the SU.

That's just not right. You can't intimidate the people you're supposed to be representing! That is an abuse of their mandate.

Someone needs to take these clowns off their pedestal and I'd be interested in helping out anybody who agrees!

Red Alert

quite frankly the SU are not with it at all. 1/3's not a majority but it's a sizeable enough number to call the 'exam' legit. if they damn well phoned the chemistry department (yes internal phone so it's free and hence they'll still be able to make the call having bailed a thug out of jail) then they'd have heard that it really wasn't a big deal at all. but why ask questions when you can shoot first? caroll is quite frankly the most useless member of the SU, a desert camel would do a better job.

Dave!

Yeah, it turns out the exam wasn't worth any percentage of the overall grade (and the SU supposedly knew that), and it was just to keep students on their toes and start studying for their actual Christmas exams (a mock exam, if ya like). A load of the students that did it said that they felt they benefited from it.

So, so out of touch...

pigeonbutler

Folks, the SU is YOUR union. It is run very democratically. For example class reps have to abide my mandates given by their classes. If you have an opinion on a motion that's coming at Council (These can be seen about a week in advance at www.ucdsu.net) then send your class-rep an e-mail or speak to him/her. The Deputy President has laid down the law on this to class reps this year and we are being very seriously expected to represent the views of our constituents (and not our own views) with regard to motions on notice.

Jonny Arson

pigeonbutler wrote:

Finally, can I ask a number of contributors what their problem with James Carroll has been? The man seems to me to be doing a fine job as president and a number of contributors to this thread made completely unfounded remarks deriding him, without giving ANY examples of where he has gone wrong.

Well since James Carroll is the head of OUR Students Union which pays 60 euro fine of OUR money for an individual breaking the law it doesn't take much logical thinking as to why he's not exactly Mr. Popular. I don't know who exactly authorized the payment of this fine but as far as I'm concerned the buck stops with Carroll. He's the guy in charge and he must have given the a o.k. for this payment. The SU have sent a clear sign to it's members that can do whatever the f**k they like and the SU will come to save the day for them.

I'm absolutely outraged my this and I feel like heading down to the Student Centre on Monday to ask for my 63.50 back. If the SU are trying to do a job of further alienating the normal everyday Joe Soap student from themselves then they're doing a fine job of it.

Absolutely disgraceful.

Conor McGowan wrote:

If you want to come out and overturn that, get yourself elected.

If you want to go out and protest against something that has absolutley nothing to do with students, education or our college then go ahead....... but don't use the SU as a pawn in order to do it.

Conor McGowan wrote:

Dara told the judge that he did indeed call a Garda a “stupid ****” after being kneed in the back and pushed around by the said Garda. That, was his crime! Personally, I think that to the wo/man, Cops are scum. We all know one or 2, and some of us have them in out family, but I would have stood in solidarity with Dara if he struck back at the Gardai that day and physically stood up for himself. EACH cop in this state holds up the most sub human laws. They are enemies of all working people and all students. The policeman, the priest, the venture capitalist. Bad apples in a barrel made of steel, one and all.

Yeah great point there! You don't make yourself out to be a hyprocrite at all! :rolleyes:

Conor McGowan wrote:

Daras case was thrown out of court, as was the case of the other man that day. The SU gave him €60. The price of a Hoody these days. Supporting people like Dara is ABSOLUTELY what a union is about.

60 euro is nothing isn't it? Only the price of a hoody? Well if 60 euro is so little these days and is only loose change why can't poor Dara not pay it himself?

I've never read so much BS in my life.

:v:

pigeonbutler

"Well since James Carroll is the head of OUR Students Union which pays 60 euro fine of OUR money for an individual breaking the law it doesn't take much logical thinking as to why he's not exactly Mr. Popular. I don't know who exactly authorized the payment of this fine but as far as I'm concerned the buck stops with Carroll. He's the guy in charge and he must have given the a o.k. for this payment. The SU have sent a clear sign to it's members that can do whatever the f**k they like and the SU will come to save the day for them."

The SU is not a dictatorship. Council voted (by a very tight margin) to pay this fine. I spoke very strongly against this motion (as the minutes show). James wanted to speak against it but a motion was passed to end the discussion and proceed straight to a vote. The Union is democratic so if the Council of all class reps votes to do something, the president can't just turn around and not do it!

Maybe you'd prefer a dictatorship? Or do you just like complaining about everything?

zinc

A case of all talk and no action from a lot of you, if you wanted to do something why didnt you run, you knew a bunch of lefties would get elected, they always do. How could this possible surprise you.

pigeonbutler

zinc wrote:

A case of all talk and no action from a lot of you, if you wanted to do something why didnt you run, you knew a bunch of lefties would get elected, they always do. How could this possible surprise you.

In fact the number of class reps elected this year that would be described as "a bunch of lefties" is probably a dozen or less. This year is probably one of the most representative councils in a while but new reps will take time to get used to the old hacks and learning to stand up and say their piece.

zinc

pigeonbutler wrote:

In fact the number of class reps elected this year that would be described as "a bunch of lefties" is probably a dozen or less. This year is probably one of the most representative councils in a while but new reps will take time to get used to the old hacks and learning to stand up and say their piece.

True, but as you know lefties are generally more vocal.

Syth

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

I feel like heading down to the Student Centre on Monday to ask for my 63.50 back

Not all of the €63.50 fee went to the students union. It goes to the union, sport clubs and societies.

Red Alert

if you spoke so strongly against this motion then why did you chicken out and abstain. what use is that to anybody except the winners of the vote? why did you not put your vote where your mouth is?

Jonny Arson

pigeonbutler wrote:

The SU is not a dictatorship. Council voted (by a very tight margin) to pay this fine. I spoke very strongly against this motion (as the minutes show). James wanted to speak against it but a motion was passed to end the discussion and proceed straight to a vote. The Union is democratic so if the Council of all class reps votes to do something, the president can't just turn around and not do it!

Maybe you'd prefer a dictatorship? Or do you just like complaining about everything?

Am I not allowed question a decision or voice my disapproval to the act of paying 60 euro of OUR money for a nonsenseical reason? Dictatorship?.... not far off since that's where you're coming from.

Zinc wrote:

A case of all talk and no action from a lot of you, if you wanted to do something why didnt you run, you knew a bunch of lefties would get elected, they always do. How could this possible surprise you.

The political agendas that is rife throughout the SU is why I'm not involved in the Union and didn't run for rep. I'd absolutely love to be involved in the Union and do good for my college and students but I have no political agendas or motives and I don't want to be involved in any of that nonsense. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no interest in being involved in a Union that has numerous political agendas that bear no relation to our university, students or education. The SU should be concentrating their efforts 100% on student issues. If any members want to protest against disputes or any other agendas that have no effect on our university that's fine with me but do it in your own time as an individual and not rely and abuse your privledge of being an SU member in order to give yourself kudos.

pigeonbutler

Red Alert wrote:

if you spoke so strongly against this motion then why did you chicken out and abstain. what use is that to anybody except the winners of the vote? why did you not put your vote where your mouth is?

I most definitely did not abstain. I voted against this motion. I abstained on a motion about the union showing solidarity with SIPTU Irish Ferries Workers.

For Zane: No-one is stopping you from voicing your dissent. I'm just trying to clarify the situation, as you are publicly criticising the President for a decision that wasn't his to make.

Mr.Nice Guy

To be honest the whole system behind the Union, to me, seems a joke. Basically I email my rep and ask them to vote the way I want them to, and they will? What if someone else tells the rep to vote a different way? How does this whole thing work exactly?

The Union should stay neutral on matters outside UCD. This would solve most of, if not all, the problems.

Seeing as it's UCDSU, how about they stick to things relevant to UCD?

zinc

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

The political agendas that is rife throughout the SU is why I'm not involved in the Union and didn't run for rep. I'd absolutely love to be involved in the Union and do good for my college and students but I have no political agendas or motives and I don't want to be involved in any of that nonsense. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has no interest in being involved in a Union that has numerous political agendas that bear no relation to our university, students or education. The SU should be concentrating their efforts 100% on student issues. If any members want to protest against disputes or any other agendas that have no effect on our university that's fine with me but do it in your own time as an individual and not rely and abuse your privledge of being an SU member in order to give yourself kudos.

But if you and others here had of ran you could have cut out a number of people with political agendas if thats your wish.

Red Alert

i stand corrected on that pigeonbutler - still why did you not vote against the Irish Ferries motion? you're a rep to vote, why speak and then not vote?

zane and i don't always agree an awful lot here but the above quote from him makes perfect sense. we need a 'back to basics action plan' that cuts out all the bull and nonsense such as the Irish Ferries dispute (what in god's name had that got to do with UCD?). i don't care how democratic the SU is or isn't, because the democracy or lack of it at the moment is irrelevant since the stuff being discussed isn't about UCD at all.

get it through your skulls - deportation and ferries have feck all to do with UCD.

pigeonbutler

Red Alert wrote:

i stand corrected on that pigeonbutler - still why did you not vote against the Irish Ferries motion? you're a rep to vote, why speak and then not vote?

zane and i don't always agree an awful lot here but the above quote from him makes perfect sense. we need a 'back to basics action plan' that cuts out all the bull and nonsense such as the Irish Ferries dispute (what in god's name had that got to do with UCD?). i don't care how democratic the SU is or isn't, because the democracy or lack of it at the moment is irrelevant since the stuff being discussed isn't about UCD at all.

get it through your skulls - deportation and ferries have feck all to do with UCD.

I'd agree with you 100% that things outside of UCD shouldn't bother the Union. Hopefully we should be able to shift focus away from stuff like that from here on. You're still misunderstanding things. I spoke against and voted against paying fine for guy arrested. I was totally neutral on the Irish Ferries thing. Although having seen the consensus among students about issues like that I intend speaking against things like that more in the future on the basis that students want to see the Union remaining involved in Student issues only.

pretty*monster

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

To be honest the whole system behind the Union, to me, seems a joke. Basically I email my rep and ask them to vote the way I want them to, and they will? What if someone else tells the rep to vote a different way? How does this whole thing work exactly?

The way it works exactly hasn't been fully implemented yet (because yes, for many years, class reps weren't held accountable for how they voted). There is currently a big push from within the union to reform and ensure that all union members (i.e. all students) are consulted on every motion. Here it is on newswire.

http://www.ucdsu.net/newswire.php?story_id=792&condense_comments=false#comment4309

At the end of the day democracy is tricky to get right, grassroots democracy even more so, this is true of the UCDSU and it would be true of any alternative union you might set up.

If your class rep isn't consulting you and your classmates on issues get on to him or her. Either s/he's doesn't want to consult you, in which case you should get a motion of no confidence passed, or (like me and many others) s/he is finding it difficult to consult all constituents within the limited time scale s/he has (Arts reps, remember, are representing 3-4 classes that all run at the same time) in which case, offer to lend a hand. If you want democracy, be prepared to put in the work.

In answer to your question, no, your class rep shouldn't vote the way you tell them, they should vote the way the majority of their constituents tell them.
If you really want the union to stay out of non-ucd stuff (and tbh that's a tricky one, many seemingly non-ucd related things are going to impact upon students in one way or another), and you believe that you're in the majority, then make sure you're class rep knows about it, make sure other people who agree with you are vocal about it too.
I personally disagree with you, and hope that I'm in the majority, but if I'm not, then so be it.

The union is there to work for you, but it's up to you to make sure that it does. Democracy means vigilance and all that jazz.