UCDSU at it again!

Mr.Nice Guy

I just checked out the UCDSU website and look at what I found:

UCDSU and SIPTU have organised a bus to bring demonstrators who are going to the Irish Ferries protest in town tomorrow thursday 3rd of November. We are meeting at the lake at 1pm and getting the bus from the 10 bus stop at 1:20.

At the last meeting of SU council the Union endorsed a motion supporting the Irish ferries workers and the demonstration.

What on earth is going on? Could someone please explain to me why my Student Union is getting involved in the issue with Irish Ferries?

Surely SIPTU can handle this themselves?

Yet another example of UCDSU trying to save the world!

rainbow kirby

Seriously, the SU needs to concentrate on looking out for UCD students.
*sigh*

Riamfada

THe S(who)

Red Alert

What will the SU do next? Start running the FAI?

Dave!

This is getting f*cking ridiculous...

Waltons

I propose a ferry for every student!

ghostchant

I think the union does a lot of good work for the students, but the lefty student activist thing is such a cliché at this point.

Mr.Nice Guy

How about UCDSU protest on the riots that are occurring in France? Or maybe a rally in support of David Blunkett who resigned?

Also, surely we could hold some sort of protest regarding MUTV censoring Roy Keane's comments? Many students here like Roy Keane and this issue is important!

zap

This came from a motion that was passed at last council, your class reps should have consulted you on what way you would like him/her to vote on behalf of your class. This is not something that the SU just came up with.

Mr.Nice Guy

zap wrote:

This came from a motion that was passed at last council, your class reps should have consulted you on what way you would like him/her to vote on behalf of your class. This is not something that the SU just came up with.

Why did the motion pass?

Stabshauptmann

Its not the decision making process thats in question here zap, its the opinion, widely held apparently, that the scope of the SU needs to be curtailed.

There time and effort should be spent on issues relevent to students. Granted some issue might come up where the student body as a whole wants to protest, like the war in Iraq, but really, they get involved in EVERYTHNIG

zap

the motion passed becuase obviously class reps are not going to their classes, council is held every 2nd Wednesday, the reps for each class receive the motions to be dicussed on the previous Wednesday at this point they are supposed to get the opinion of thieir class on each motion and vote at council the way their class feels they should not how the rep feels they should. Council is open for anyone to come and watch so I would urge everyone to come along and see how it works.

irlrobins

zap wrote:

your class reps should have consulted you on what way you would like him/her to vote on behalf of your class.

Is that a pig flying by my window.....

zap

Kaptain Redeye wrote:

Its not the decision making process thats in question here zap, its the opinion, widely held apparently, that the scope of the SU needs to be curtailed.

There time and effort should be spent on issues relevent to students. Granted some issue might come up where the student body as a whole wants to protest, like the war in Iraq, but really, they get involved in EVERYTHNIG

any class rep can bring a motion to council and it up to the students to tell their reps to vote against these motions if they don't want to see them passed.

GusherING

Eh, this particular motion wasn't publicised to class reps nor classes before the council met. It was an emergency motion, so virtually nobody knew about it. It was not a motion on notice. Also, the fact that this motion came up much later in the evening, about 8pm - 8:30, means that a lot of the attendance had dwindled. Had people known, I'm sure they would have stayed and voted. This is a bit like McDowell making ammendments to certain acts in Dail Eireann, late at night and as Gaeilge.

irlrobins

So the union claims to represent us but yet motions are passed that only reflect the opinion of a few class reps (who are unable to consult their class).


..... mmmmm

pretty*monster

Actually this issue does effect students.

Many (if not most) students work.
Many students would not be able to go to college with out the income from a part time job.
Employer like hiering students because they don't have to pay them a lot.
But they still have to pay them minimum wage, so the students don't do too badly about it.
If employers are allowed to hier forign workers at a sub-minimum wage students risk being squished out of the jobs market.

Simple as, of course there are wider issues at stake here, but if you think the SU should work purely out of self interest, well there it is for you.

Also, re class reps consulting their constituents. Most reps try to, I know I do, but the fact of the matter is that we don't really get the motions a week in advance like we're supposed to. I haven't gotten next wednesdays motions yet.

Mr.Nice Guy

GusherING wrote:

Eh, this particular motion wasn't publicised to class reps nor classes before the council met. It was an emergency motion, so virtually nobody knew about it. It was not a motion on notice. Also, the fact that this motion came up much later in the evening, about 8pm - 8:30, means that a lot of the attendance had dwindled. Had people known, I'm sure they would have stayed and voted. This is a bit like McDowell making ammendments to certain acts in Dail Eireann, late at night and as Gaeilge.

Absolutely. This is nothing short of scandalous.

Could someone please tell me how one would go about taking issue with the actions of the Union or are they a behemoth that cannot be tackled in any way?

John_C

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Absolutely. This is nothing short of scandalous.

Could someone please tell me how one would go about taking issue with the actions of the Union or are they a behemoth that cannot be tackled in any way?

My advice is to think big. Collect the few hundred signatures and hold a refferendum to disband the SU. That'll put the ****s up them.

Let the sports dept take over the running of the student bars, at least theirs made a profit.

Mr.Nice Guy

John_C wrote:

My advice is to think big. Collect the few hundred signatures and hold a refferendum to disband the SU. That'll put the ****s up them.

Let the sports dept take over the running of the student bars, at least theirs made a profit.

I've checked their website and in regard to referenda:

A referendum of all the members of UCD Students' Union is the "Supreme authority on all matters relating to the government of the Union," as laid down in the Union Constitution. Referenda may be called regarding important matters of Union policy by a petition signed by 3.5% of the student population (approximately 700 students) or on the direction of Council. A referendum is deemed to be passed if the majority have voted in favour of the motion and if the turnout is above 10% (approximately 2100 students).

So we would need to get 700 students to sign a petitition. It's very possible in my opinion to get students to sign a petition requesting the Union to stay completely neutral on political matters. Whether this would achieve anything in the end is doubtful but it would send out a powerful message I feel.

irlrobins

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Whether this would achieve anything in the end is doubtful but it would send out a powerful message I feel.

True

Mr.Nice Guy

Does anyone here want to organise such a petition?

I would offer to but I'm not really good at this kind of thing, though I would be willing to assist in the process.

irlrobins

Wonder if online petition is acceptable?

Then this might be easy to set one up on.

John_C

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

...It's very possible in my opinion to get students to sign a petition requesting the Union to stay completely neutral on political matters...

To small. Apolitical students won't vote for an apolitical motion. You need something which will be a bit if craic i.e. disbanding the whole thing to throw the hacks into a spin.

Mr.Nice Guy

John_C wrote:

To small. Apolitical students won't vote for an apolitical motion.

Surely they would when they find out that they're being hit in their own pockets?

John_C wrote:

You need something which will be a bit if craic i.e. disbanding the whole thing to throw the hacks into a spin.

I see what you mean and while I'm not completely against that idea, if 700 votes are collected and it goes to a vote, they will hardly vote themselves out of existence whereas calling for the Union to take a neutral stance might get a small measure of support.

I'm not sure if online petitions are acceptable. I wouldn't have thought so as you cannot be sure if it's only students that are signing it. I could be wrong though...

DadaKopf

Why does anyone care?

GusherING

pretty*monster wrote:

Actually this issue does effect students.

Many (if not most) students work.
Many students would not be able to go to college with out the income from a part time job.
Employer like hiering students because they don't have to pay them a lot.
But they still have to pay them minimum wage, so the students don't do too badly about it.
If employers are allowed to hier forign workers at a sub-minimum wage students risk being squished out of the jobs market.

Simple as, of course there are wider issues at stake here, but if you think the SU should work purely out of self interest, well there it is for you.

Also, re class reps consulting their constituents. Most reps try to, I know I do, but the fact of the matter is that we don't really get the motions a week in advance like we're supposed to. I haven't gotten next wednesdays motions yet.

Irish Ferries is a one off. Firstly, with the advent of low fare airfares from Ryanair and Easyjet etc, nobody takes the ferries anymore. Their market is much reduced. Also, Irish Ferries, like most airlines hedges its fuel. That means it buys its fuel one year in advance. As I'm sure your aware, fuel prices have been fairly high and rising over the past year or so. This is a rising cost for Irish Ferries who are catering to an ever shrinking market. Thirdly, Irish Ferries needs to re-invest in its fleet. The capital required to do so is obviously a large sum. Without re-investment, even more people will decide to not go on some crappy ferry ship which takes longer and costs a fair bit more than a plane. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that Irish Ferries is in a bad way over the long-term.
So what do they do, they cut costs. One viable option is to re-register ships in the Bahamas or wherever it is and then their staff will be subject to the employment laws of that country. We can all pretty much work out that these laws in the Carribean are probably less stringent than in the EU. Thats why the minimum wage is €3.50, not the €7 in Ireland. (in fairness, 3.50 is probably a decent minimum wage in the Bahamas). Bear in mind, only Irish Ferries as a shipping company can do this. This is hardly setting a precednt for all companies in Ireland.

Now as to whether this is fair for the Irish people who have spent 30 years of their lives knowing only the skills required for the merchant navy now finding themselves out of a job, I'd probably say no, but thats the nature of our economy. It is possible for these people to learn new skills. They can get jobs in the ever expanding Ryanair. Why can't they get other jobs in the merchanty navy? Oh yeah, the entire industry is on its knees, I forgot. The workers have a choice, they can sign up to 3.50 or they can leave. They can't keep 7.00 an hour and still have a job till they retire. Irish Ferries won't last that long. They'll have no jobs.

Yet, under maritime law, this is acceptable. This is internationally acceptable. This is as internationally acceptable as the Geneva Convention, which many on this site like to use as a basis for disrupting the law of the land with regards immigration protests. I'll let them work out the contradiction for themselves.

How is one international law fair (Geneva Convention) and why should it be a litmus test to determine whether a state is meeting its moral obligations, and another be totally unjust even though it too is International Law and should be given as much respect. Surely it should be treated with the same regard as the Geneva Convention, even though it doesn't seem fair?? Or is that not fair??:cool:

Besides, this really has little to do with the UCDSU, it is for national governments, international organsiations and the such like to look after. It is most certainly not within the remit of a Students Union to interpret and decide upon the justness of laws, particularly international ones.

Syth

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

I see what you mean and while I'm not completely against that idea, if 700 votes are collected and it goes to a vote, they will hardly vote themselves out of existence whereas calling for the Union to take a neutral stance might get a small measure of support.

The hacks wouldn't vote themselves out of existance, but if it goes to referendum, then it'll give everyone a wakeup call. Plus there would be a lot more debate about the nature of the union and what most students want from it and want it to do.

michaelanthony

It gives them something to do.

pigeonbutler

That motion passed for a number of reasons:

1. It was an emergency motion that came up when the meeting had gone on about 3 hours already so many of the more apolitical/moderate class reps had left. In fact the SU president called on the chair to ensure the meeting had enough councillors present and the count showed that it was barely quorate (3or4 more people leaving would have forced it to be suspended)

2. There are still vacancies in many constituencies for class reps. So lets get the moderates in!! If you really think the Union should keep out of these type issues and there's a vacant seat in your constituency, get 20 of your classmates to sign a by-election petition and get yourself in a position to influence things. The more representative council is the better for the students.
Here's some of the vacant seats:

3rd Comm
Postgrad Comm - 3 Seats
3rd Eng
4th Science
PostGrad Science
3rd Arts Group C
Post Grad Arts
Residences (Yes there are "class reps" for those living on campus)

This list is probably not comprehensive.

3. Most moderates didn't oppose the motion. I for one simply abstained. Speaking honestly those of us of a more moderate political stance reserve our strongest opposition for when those on the left wing of the house propose really ridiculous things, like paying the fines of people arrested for obstructing Gardaí from doing their work, like happened at this Council meeting. Most people were simply exhausted by the time this emergency motion came up and saw no great harm in the Union agreeing to a motion that was little more than a form of Trade-Union supportive words.

I do agree with the OP that the Union distances itself hugely from the general populace when it concentrates on very left-wing political campaigns that are of little concern to the average student. At some time in the future I will be very tempted to "name and shame" those who consistently bring up motions that have party-political agendas so that their constituents can see what is being said and done in their name.

One of those gentlemen blasted me last week for allegedly "representing the views of my (very centrist!!) political party, rather than the views of my constituency". Little did he know that myself and the other rep for my class had spoken to many of our constituents about the motion and were representing these views. Students should take an interest in what their reps are saying on their behalf and take them to task if those views are not those of the class.

Mr.Nice Guy

Syth wrote:

The hacks wouldn't vote themselves out of existance, but if it goes to referendum, then it'll give everyone a wakeup call. Plus there would be a lot more debate about the nature of the union and what most students want from it and want it to do.

Well I can't disagree with that. If a petition was put to me I'd sign it.

pigeonbutler, I respect your opinion on this and it's good to see that there is concern felt from within about the direction of the Union.