Laws for Non-national Reg cars.

Jumpy

Hi,

If a non-national is driving a country of origin reg car over here, while also a resident how long before it is considered illegal?

Seth Brundle

If the person is resident here full time then the car must be declared, VRT paid and motor tax and insurance paid up to date along with the NCT if appropriate.
See http://www.oasis.gov.ie/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/importing_car_into_ireland.html for a bit more.

Ratchet

most of them owned their vehicles abroad for more than 6 months, this is why revenue doesn't do anything . they are VRT exempt anyway, simply too much paper work

Seth Brundle

but there are motor tax, insurance nd ownership details which aren't being tackled!

Ratchet

kbannon wrote:

tax ....insurance nd ownership details which aren't being tackled!

the only thing that could be tackled would be road tax which should be really in petrol price.

you can't really seize the car which say e.g. belongs to my mother and is fully insured in country of origin (providing they have full cover abroad)

MrPudding

Ratchet wrote:

you can't really seize the car which say e.g. belongs to my mother and is fully insured in country of origin (providing they have full cover abroad)

Ah, actually you will find that they can. Providing, of course, you are resident in Ireland that is.

By the word of the law an Irish resident cannot drive any car in Ireland unless VRT has been paid on this. This would include vehicles of relatives visiting from another country.

They may not do it but the law would allow them to.

MrP

Seth Brundle

Ratchet wrote:

the only thing that could be tackled would be road tax which should be really in petrol price.

you can't really seize the car which say e.g. belongs to my mother and is fully insured in country of origin (providing they have full cover abroad)

WRT insurance, the car can be taken and fines and/or other punishments can be applied by the courts.
Insurance in Ireland must be from a company certified by IFSRA or a comparable EU member state body. However, if the person is from within the EU they are possibly fine until their insurance company discover that they have been driving abroad for more that the normal 20 days in what is effectively a high risk country.

Ratchet

MrPudding wrote:

Ah, actually you will find that they can. Providing, of course, you are resident in Ireland that is.

By the word of the law an Irish resident cannot drive any car in Ireland unless VRT has been paid on this.
MrP

yes, they will have to prove it that driver is a resident,

but in regards to revenue in majority of cases there is no VRT to be paid on these cars as most of them guys owned their vehicles abroad for more than 6 months. hence, revenue is not looking for more paper work which doesn't bring any money.

kbannon wrote:

However, if the person is from within the EU they are possibly fine until their insurance company discover that they have been driving abroad for more that the normal 20 days in what is effectively a high risk country.

nope. e.g Allianz in Poland offer normal insurance caver which includes 12 months abroad cover within EU (you do not pay extra for this and there is no stupid 20 day limit) also they have another policy which will allows me to take my Irish reg car to Poland and insure it there(insurance would be valid within Poland only) for period e.g. of my 12month contract

MrPudding

Ratchet wrote:

yes, they will have to prove it that driver is a resident,

Do you mean like if they had a job and paid tax here? Remember it is the Revenue you are dealing with. :rolleyes:

MrP

IDMUD

If you are here on a temporary basis (contract worker) you are allowed to drive your non-irish car for 12 months, after that you have to register it here. You won't have to pay VRT on it as you've owned it for more than 6 months. Should yor be considrered a permanent resident you'll have to register it at once. Not counting all the loopholes

Ratchet

MrPudding wrote:

Do you mean like if they had a job and paid tax here? Remember it is the Revenue you are dealing with. :rolleyes:

MrP

so they go through the motion and prove that guy is resident and turns that his mum owns the car and what then?

even if he owns the car which is probably for longer then 6 months he will not pay any VRT :rolleyes:

this procedure would be considered as cost which would be paid by tax payers money. so what is the point of checking people that would be more likely VRT exempt?

Guy:Incognito

Ratchet wrote:

so they go through the motion and prove that guy is resident and turns that his mum owns the car and what then?

As already said above, it's not who owns it, its whose driving it in this country.

Ratchet wrote:

even if he owns the car which is probably for longer then 6 months he will not pay any VRT :rolleyes: ?

No but he will be paying motor tax and in the event of anything untoward (speeding, hit and run, bank robbery etc) they are traceable. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ratchet wrote:

this procedure would be considered as cost which would be paid by tax payers money. so what is the point of checking people that would be more likely VRT exempt?

See above. Plus. IT'S THE LAW.

unkel

Jumpy wrote:

If a non-national is driving a country of origin reg car over here, while also a resident how long before it is considered illegal?

One working day before you have to register and 3 days before you have to display the license plates, so I suppose 3 days is the answer to your question (see kbannon's link)

Ratchet wrote:

most of them owned their vehicles abroad for more than 6 months, this is why revenue doesn't do anything . they are VRT exempt anyway

The car has to be registered within one working day anyway, although no VRT needs to be paid (see kbannon's link)

MrPudding wrote:

Ah, actually you will find that they can. Providing, of course, you are resident in Ireland that is

Indeed they can and according to a reliable source, they have recently started to do this more than they did before

Ratchet wrote:

turns that his mum owns the ca

You must show proof of ownership when you bring a car into the country (see kbannon's link)

IDMUD wrote:

If you are here on a temporary basis (contract worker) you are allowed to drive your non-irish car for 12 months, after that you have to register it here

Any link to that? It would mean you're off the hook for the first year

Ratchet

Stekelly wrote:

As already said above, it's not who owns it, its whose driving it in this country..

but you will have great difficulties to seize the car for no VRT/roadtax if all the paper work is in order including valid insurance and driver is not registered owner. Register owner will have to be notified of any legal proceedings. This will be long process .
I wonder who will cover all costs of the process……..

Stekelly wrote:

No but he will be paying motor tax and in the event of anything untoward (speeding, hit and run, bank robbery etc) they are traceable. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ..

Agree ,everybody should pay road tax which should be included in petrol price in the first place.

Stekelly wrote:

See above. Plus. IT'S THE LAW.

doesn't seems to be really enforced as i am looking at the same LV/LT cars for over 1.5 year . Dispute the fact "this is the law" looks like VRT office has no really intention of chasing anybody else except UK/NI cars and some dudes from local call centers.

so, looks to me that whole idea about chasing this kind of cars is not economical for Revenue , which simply means they will hardly get any VRT money and the only benefit would be as you have pointed out that car would be registered and driver will have to pay road tax , which doesn't really come near what they get from VRT money(and these cars would be more likely exempt.. I say revenue has no real idea how many eastern European cars we have here which makes me believe that it would cost more to revise and implement the system which shouldn’t have so many easy loopholes . It will probably cost more the actual road tax that you could get by forcing the to register the car.

Guy:Incognito

Ratchet wrote:

Agree ,everybody should pay road tax which should be included in petrol price in the first place.

Personnally, my main worry would be accountaility for illegal actions , rather than a few hundred grand extra in road tax

Ratchet

unkel wrote:

You must show proof of ownership when you bring a car into the country (see kbannon's link)

to whom?


Insurance companies in this countries insure car not a driver, which means that anybody who got permission from the owner and holds driving license can drive the car.

Ratchet

Stekelly wrote:

Personnally, my main worry would be accountaility for illegal actions , rather than a few hundred grand extra in road tax

unfortunately, looks like revenue doesn't see it that way they are there for the money.

but i share your view

unkel

Ratchet wrote:

to whom?

You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland

From kbannon's link

Some more quotes from same link:

You must display the registration number within three days. Failure to display the new registration number is an offence and you can be fined by An Garda Siochana (the Irish police force)

Any delay in registering your vehicle or paying Vehicle Registration Tax will make you liable to substantial penalties - including forfeiture of your vehicle and prosecution

For anyone reading this thread that doesn't understand what "forfeiture" means: it means they'll take your car and won't give it back to you

P.S. don't get my personal opinion wrong here. I agree with

Ratchet wrote:

everybody should pay road tax which should be included in petrol price in the first place

and

Stekelly wrote:

Personnally, my main worry would be accountaility for illegal actions

BrianD

Ratchet wrote:

most of them owned their vehicles abroad for more than 6 months, this is why revenue doesn't do anything . they are VRT exempt anyway, simply too much paper work

But they still have to be re-registered, taxed and insurance if they are to remain in the country permanently (i.e outside of a year long contract).

Ratchet

BrianD wrote:

But they still have to be re-registered, taxed and insurance if they are to remain in the country permanently (i.e outside of a year long contract).

doesn't seems to be really enforced , does it?

Unkel.
I wouldn’t be that sure .
Arriving here doesn’t mean that you are automatically a resident. You could be tourist, visitor, contractor etc. Good old oasis.gov.ie service also has information on who is considered resident and when foreigner gets residency status(not citizenship)

On the same page from which this golden rule was quoted

You must bring it to a Revenue Vehicle Registration Office (VRO) not later than the next working day following its arrival in Ireland

You can also find:

Every motor vehicle in the State, (with the exception of vehicles brought in temporarily by a visitor, must be registered with the Revenue Commissioners

Technically these guys do not import the vehicle to Ireland at the initial arrival and I can’t see any information here defining term “visitor” and highlighting length of the stay.


This also voids next rule which refers to

Any delay in registering your vehicle or paying Vehicle Registration Tax will make you liable to substantial penalties - including forfeiture of your vehicle and prosecution


So you have visitor (not committing any traffic offences) with car which is fully insured(with valid insurance green card) and legal to drive in any other EU country, belongs say to his mum or brother ,which was so kind to lend it to him for entire duration of his stay in Ireland( I am sure if you ask them you will get confirmation of this fact) and you think that forfeiture of this vehicle would be the simplest thing on earth?

Prosecution? It will easily end up in court .You have to prove how long the guy was here and how long he was driving his mums car:) how you can punish somebody by taking something that technically doesn’t belong to him?? Not mentioning the fact that real owner will have to be notified probably in own native language and really get the vehicle back after case is finished.
Entire process will take some time and cost some good few bob of tax payers money

Revenue cares about the money not the fact that you can’t trace somebody for traffic offences.

And they will have to do all this work for more likely VRT exempt vehicle

Yeah, right. Sad but there is a loophole there. Also all of this cars have to do MOT in own country which will cancel the time they where already here .

the numbers are too small and really there is more people avoiding road tax by abusing "non usage declaration"

unkel

Ratchet wrote:

Arriving here doesn’t mean that you are automatically a resident

OP clearly refers to residents

Ratchet

i will call them tourists:)

Jumpy

Thanks for the answers guys/girls.