Hmmm focus or golf

Cyrus

Hi folks, my alfa 156 is all but sold and im on the look out for something a bit quicker.

ive looked at a few cars but some have been ruled out by too high road tax and or insurance. So ive ended up looking at VAG cars with the 1.8t engine.

Unfortunately over here it seems the leon cupra wasnt that popular, with the audis being more expensive ive basically settled on a mkiv golf gti with the intention of getting an engine remap for 200bhp.

However ive seen a lovely ford focus thats making me think again, basically it belongs to a guy who is a forum member (mayshine i think) and its here

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=231616

Its an St170 lookalike with full leather, with engine mods (which will come with) it will make circa 140 bhp with similar torque, however i would imagine it will handle better and be more economical?

Its also a 02, the golfs are more in the same price range are generally 00/01

like this

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=299628

So anyone got an opinion on which they would go for? insurance same on both!

Big Balls

You're trying to decide between a feckin' Fo*d (I've owned two!) and a decent used GTI??

And you can't decide which one is better?

Right.

I've owned a 02 Focus and a 03 GTI and there is just no comparison. The Focus you have there is not a turbo so how you'll see 140 with engine mods I dunno.

The MKIV GTI is no great handler granted, but it's in another LEAGUE to that Ford. The state of those leather seats!!!

Edit: Oh yeh.. not to mention the big GAPING hole in the Focus where the owner was too tight to fit a proper after market radio to fit the Focus.

Wayyyyyyyyyyy overpriced. I beg you, don't buy it.

gabgab

Absolutely.............. Actual st170 cannot be gotten rid of, they are not that quick at all and dont be fooled. 140 bhp, unless he has a lot of engine mods I doubt it is pushing 140bhp, a standard gti push's 150, red I is 180,

To be fair, a 150bhp gti can be remapped to 216 by westward engineering, in the 02 up as it has the sport turbo and the previous ones 01 etc are approx 196 remapped.

The problem with that car, and no offence but I'm sure he'd aggree if he was'nt selling it is that he's trying to make the money back on all the extra's and cash he's spent on it.

GTI is the way to go, and a cupra r is 225 bhp, if your economy is even the slightest issue leave them alone I guess, bigger, heavier than both cars and more power as standard,

Cyrus

wooo wooo easy now.

The focus is overpriced but he is open to negotiation, if it was to cost say 12750 thats a good price for a std 1.6 focus not to mention a 1.8 with leather etc.

Im aware there is no turbo but to be fair to increase bhp from 115 to 135/140 isnt too difficult with an engine remap and a 4-2-1 st170 manifold, im pretty confident the bhp is correct.

Ive driven both a focus and a mkiv golf (not a gti ) and the focus is the better handler? i doubt the gti is in a different league to the focus? And i dont see whats wrong with the seats? to me they look marginally better than the cloth recaros in gti's (ideally id like a gti with leather recaros :cool: )

Economy isnt a big issue as any long trips are normally work based and they pay, i was just looking for opinions really

I thank you both for yours, ive done a lot of research into various cars and im well aware of the different versions of the golf gti and the bhp and i had already decided a revo remap was the way to go to make it a proper sports hatch

I was leaning towards the golf as it is but i feel ye are being a bit harsh on the focus !

Big Balls

Cyrus... What would I know. I only spent 14 months driving each car.

We're trying to help you here.

1) Fuel economy on a 1.8T 150 - You will get 280 miles out of a tank around town.

2) You will not get those type of increases on a NA engine with a remap. It just doesn't happen. Turbo engines see increases of 30 bhp + alright but not NA ones.

3) You can't base a drive in a Golf as being a drive in a GTI. The GTI has sports suspension and is a VAST, VAST, improvement over the standard Golf suspension. (The new GTI is totally different to the MKIV in this department I am glad to report!).

I dunno how you can't see that the Golf is another different league. Have you looked at and felt the material used in the Golf compared to the Focus? Have you closed the doors and felt the clunk compared to the Focus? The Golf has a lot more road presence.. It's a bloody Focus!! They are Ireland's best selling car which means they are EVERYWHERE. So are Golfs but not GTIs.

Just to pick you up Gab - the DBW Golf GTI actually came in 2001.

Cyrus

lol fair enough

Gains on a turbo engine from a remap alone would be 60bhp+ on most 150bhp gtis, the focus would have a remap and a st170 manifold, its a common gain ive checked it out

that said, i am leaning towards a golf and i was just wondering was i wrong

oh and my mate has teh new mk v, wish i could afford one but cant just yet, what a machine!

Fabritzo

I'd go for the Golf aight, that one looks a little tired though, the Tdi mark4 commands more respect in my book. The mk5's reviews have made it very popular, it looks good too.

Cyrus

do you mind me asking what makes it look tired?

Dunno where the tdi has more respect? you mean just in general in reviews and stuff?

Mayshine

I feel I have to defend the poor focus, some of you lot are giving it a hell of a battering.

1) Fuel economy on a 1.8T 150 - You will get 280 miles out of a tank around town.

Focus was giving about 340 from a tank communting greystones to east point each day during rush hour

2) You will not get those type of increases on a NA engine with a remap. It just doesn't happen. Turbo engines see increases of 30 bhp + alright but not NA ones.

This link from the FFOC in the UK will show that the n/a 2.0 rated a 130bhp with ST170 manifold and basic mods are throwing out approx 165bhp, the 1.8 is the same block so you will find similar percentage gains
http://www.ffoc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=92682&highlight=dyno+manifold

3) You can't base a drive in a Golf as being a drive in a GTI. The GTI has sports suspension and is a VAST, VAST, improvement over the standard Golf suspension. (The new GTI is totally different to the MKIV in this department I am glad to report!).

Certainly can't disagree with you there, although the MK4 GTI is still a slouch in the corners, new MK V seems to be the biz though, although looks like the new Focus ST out this month is getting rave reviews from the uk press

The problem with that car, and no offence but I'm sure he'd aggree if he was'nt selling it is that he's trying to make the money back on all the extra's and cash he's spent on it.

I think if you look at the price of 2002 focus's in carzone, you will see that it is very sensibly priced compared to other 02s considering the low mileage on it.


Remember the focus he checked out is a 1.8 not the 1.4/1.6 block. it is the most responsive focus engine to tuning, the 2.0 being a bored version of this engine. They are a rare engine in Ireland, so I cannot imagine you guys having driven one, yet alone one with an ST170 manifold (although I am open to correction)

On top of that you with this focus you get 17" alloys and eibach springs and discs all round, 300mm ventalated fronts too. Trust me it will stop as well as Mk4 GTI, with a slick gearchage too while going around a corner quicker. Outside of the straight line speed of the golf and the 'image' the golf gives you, i really think as a drivers car the focus is more enjoyable. Strangly enough so do the car press.

Anyway, just my point of view, don't want this turning into a slagging match, nor am i trying to sell the car on the forum (mods take note), just wanted to give the other side of the story


:cool: :cool: :cool:


Oh just noticed these, sounds like the author has a chip on his shoulder

The MKIV GTI is no great handler granted, but it's in another LEAGUE to that Ford.

I'd be more than happy to allow the auther of this quote to have a spin and see if he has the same opinion

The state of those leather seats!!!

Not sure what extactly is wrong with the seats, perhaps you can elaborate

Edit: Oh yeh.. not to mention the big GAPING hole in the Focus where the owner was too tight to fit a proper after market radio to fit the Focus.

Its a tray to hold CDs, I guess it looks like hole since its a dark area. The radio is a single DIN aftermarket. In asian markets, this how the car is sold as they do not use the double DIN stereos much out there


Peace out all

Canis Lupus

Personally I'd buy a Focus over a Gold any day. Think Golfs look boring plus you pay too much money for not alot of car imo.

Anyway for a grand more he is getting a newer car with less miles. As long as the car is sound I wouldn't see why you would go for the golf.

69 mustang

VW before FORD any day but not that one too many doors for my liking, in those pics looks only, 3door Focus looks better than a 5door Golf.
If I were looking in that range I'd by a 3door Golf

maidhc

I'd go for the focus. The 5 Dr. golf definately looks a bit middle aged (at best). Apart from the 1DIN radio, the interior of the focus is far nicer.

I have driven neither, but the Focus does have a good reputation for going around bends, and the Golf a bad one. The car seems also reasonable value with the recorded mileage, and hell its two years newer.

bazz26

Cyrus wrote:

Hi folks, my alfa 156 is all but sold and im on the look out for something a bit quicker.

ive looked at a few cars but some have been ruled out by too high road tax and or insurance. So ive ended up looking at VAG cars with the 1.8t engine.

Unfortunately over here it seems the leon cupra wasnt that popular, with the audis being more expensive ive basically settled on a mkiv golf gti with the intention of getting an engine remap for 200bhp.

However ive seen a lovely ford focus thats making me think again, basically it belongs to a guy who is a forum member (mayshine i think) and its here

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=231616

Its an St170 lookalike with full leather, with engine mods (which will come with) it will make circa 140 bhp with similar torque, however i would imagine it will handle better and be more economical?

Its also a 02, the golfs are more in the same price range are generally 00/01

like this

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=299628

So anyone got an opinion on which they would go for? insurance same on both!

Did you consider the Skoda Octavia vRS? It uses the same 1.8 180bhp turbo engine as the Golf GTi. They can be bought up North or in the UK alot cheaper than here and the ECU can be remapped to over 200bhp if you are mad enough to get that done to a front wheel drive car. Alot of car for the money all the same.

Another quick car is the old Volvo S40 T4 which can be bought for half silly money these days:
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=255665
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=316360

Of the two you mentioned I would choose the Focus.

unkel

What happened to you, Cyrus?

Last time I looked you were about to get an exciting FIAT coupe and now an obese old Golf or a

Cyrus wrote:

St170 lookalike

:rolleyes:

Cyrus wrote:

my alfa 156 is all but sold and im on the look out for something a bit quicker

Focus:

No matter what way you remap the Focus, which is a decent drivers car btw but no competitor to your Alfa, it will be slower.

Golf:

It is a bit quicker off the mark than your Alfa. It can also be tarted up in terms of bhp well beyond your Alfa, but what's the point doing that to a car that is a poor drivers car?

Buy either and you will be disappointed. Your prerogative but

besty

Golf, end of story. Granted I know fook all about cars, but it is a simple choice if I were to make it.

good luck

Cyrus

hey unkel, i love the looks of the focus, and there isnt an st170 anywhere near my budget.

The focus with the engine mods does 0-60 in just under 8 seconds (albeit with just a driver) however that would make it quicker than my alfa by a good 1.5 seconds.

A fiat coupe is the dream, but apart from taking a policy with a 4 k excess i just cant insure it, and that 4k would be like a noose around my neck

Any other suggestions?

Cheers Bazz by the way, havent seen any skodas in that price down here ill check the north volvo is cool if a little plain looking but maybe thats a good thing!!

Big Balls

Mayshine wrote:

IThey are a rare engine in Ireland, so I cannot imagine you guys having driven one, yet alone one with an ST170 manifold (although I am open to correction)

Well I have driven a genuine ST170 before and due to more torque and a turbo, the GTI felt like the more responsive car. You had to rev the ST170 a bit more.

The leather seats... well they are like ones you buy in Halfords that are in fact just covers that look like leather. I've had an Audi with leather and if I show you a picture of that type of leather, you'll agree with me.

The mean thing which seems to be popping up here is the extras you have on it. They mean FA to a new buyer. It might look like an ST but it ain't!

It's your decision to buy whatever but I'm just giving you advice from using my head and experience.

Get a nice 3dr GTI, stick some 17s on it and hey presto.

Do what you like to that Focus remap wise but it ain't gonna put out 210 bhp for €700 unlike the Golf.

ds20prefecture

The Mk IV Golf GTi is a lardass with inert handling and next to no feedback. It's a good tourer/milemuncher, but so is a TDi. The Focus is widely regarded as having the best handling chassis in the class, or indeed the class above it.

Personally, I prefer the sharper edged looks of the focus to the amorphous blob that is the Mk IV Golf. With the Ford, it looks like somebody made the effort. Nice interior in the golf, though. A 2.0 156 is a better car than either of them.

PaddyFagan

bazz26 wrote:

Did you consider the Skoda Octavia vRS? It uses the same 1.8 180bhp turbo engine as the Golf GTi. They can be bought up North or in the UK alot cheaper than here and the ECU can be remapped to over 200bhp if you are mad enough to get that done to a front wheel drive car. Alot of car for the money all the same.

I'll add my voice to the vRS lobby - I have one (it's 05, unfortunitly I had a lot of problems with people trying to knick it and I'm going to trade her in, in Jan). Great car though. BTW having talked to a VW dealer about this recently the only Mark IV Golf GTi with the 180 bhp engine is the anniversary edition, all others with or without the red i are 150 bhp.

Paddy

unkel

Cyrus wrote:

Its an St170 lookalike with full leather, with engine mods (which will come with) it will make circa 140 bhp

It has 115 bhp standard. So you can get it up to 140bhp? Maybe although it seems a tad optimistic. Anyway your Alfa has 140 bhp standard. It can easily be remapped too. There is no way the Focus is going to be quicker than the Alfa (with or without remap on both cars)

Cyrus wrote:

A fiat coupe is the dream, but apart from taking a policy with a 4 k excess i just cant insure it, and that 4k would be like a noose around my neck

Any other suggestions?

Ok the FIAT coupe will have to wait so

In the meantime, don't waste your money on cars inferior to your current car and save yourself from serious disappointment. Save the money and clock up a few more NCB years and you'll be ready to buy some really nice motor soon enough

BrianD3

Have to agree with unkel, I think you're a bit mad to be even considering the switch. The Focus is a good car and has great handling but it still seems crazy to go from a 156 that you like to a remapped Focus 1.8 because you want a faster car. As for the Golf - don't bother with it, you'll enjoy it less than you enjoy your Alfa. If you must "upgrade" to a smaller car look at something like a Clio 2.0 172 like this one, now that would be a fun car but there aren't many of them about so not much choice
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=242746

If it were me I would take a risk on the 4k excess to get the car I wanted. I have never had comprehensive insurance and have driven/owned cars which were a fair bit more expensive than the ones you're looking at. So even though I stood to lose a lot if I f*cked up it has never worried me unduly.

unkel

Or if you must have something that is significantly faster than your 1.8, how about this?

The €3k or so you save by going for that car compared to Golf or Focus, surely will go a long way in compensating you for the higher running costs

Interceptor

Yip, neither. Integra.

'c

unkel

Interceptor wrote:

Yip, neither. Integra.

I presume you're suggesting the type R?

OP can't afford insurance on a FIAT coupe. He can forget about an ITR then

Cyrus

Unkel, nice car but hate the tints and id rather just change if im changing getting same car again would be no fun

Might look at some beemers aswell see what i can get.

No interested in an integra, im an accountant and i cant really be going out to clients in one, altho that said i like the ITRS, missus hates em tho

bmoferrall

Have to agree about that V6 Alfa.

The V6 is a logical step up from the 1.8 - assuming you're not bored with Alfa's in general now. (My last car was the 2.5L Alfa and I loved it.)

Worth a test drive anyway. You just might be seduced by that V6 engine.
Most of the 156 V6 Alfas on the market are pre-2002 so they're becoming increasingly rare, and tend to be snapped up quite quickly. In my opinion, they're a steal around the 10K price.
This one seems well priced, especially considering it's had the timing belt (and some suspension work) done. The owner seems like an enthusiast too.
Listen out for front suspension noises. The heavy engine takes its toll up front.
Make sure power delivery is smooth in all gears - the air-flow meter can give problems.
The sun roof drain can leak into the passenger footwell (think there are other causes for this also) in heavy downpours - check for dampness, including under the carpet.

If you're dissatisfied with the standard bhp (189bhp, 0--60 in 7.2s), a couple of engine mods will have you challenging GTAs at traffic lights:
Bang for buck this is about the best mod you can get.
A basic remap, or the addition of an induction kit and sports exhaust would also make a big difference.


EDIT: oops, see you've already dismissed the Alfa. Has to be a Seat Cupra so. I'm sure you could find a 2001 example for around 12K (try UK). The Seat has the performance of the GTI, classier looks and rarity value.

Cyrus

im not against the idea of another alfa but i suppose i have had one and theres so many other cars out there

Id def like a leon but it would be difficult for me to get the time to goto the uk before chrimbo and there are none in the north or here

BrianD3

Have you considered a Peugeot 406 Coupe. 2.0 or 3.0 and available for around 10 grand. Might be easier to insure than a Fiat Coupe.
http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=305463

Big Balls

PaddyFagan wrote:

the only Mark IV Golf GTi with the 180 bhp engine is the anniversary edition, all others with or without the red i are 150 bhp.

Not true, the 180 bhp engine was available from either late 2001 or early 2002 onwards.

Interceptor

Cyrus wrote:

im an accountant

Then you need a diesel Octavia. With nice seat covers and the radio tuned permanently to Lyric....

'c

ando

Focus for me, but then again I am biased. That Focus has much more road presence than any mk4 GTI imo. Handles great, better looking to