Great big bunch of coke heads!!

Miguel_Sanchez

Ag marbh wrote:

I've yet to hear about a cocaine addict in Ireland. The stuff is so diluted. It's about the only drug I think is useless.

You've obviously led a pretty sheltered life if you've never heard about any cocaine addict in Ireland. Perhaps you don't know any personally. Fair enough. But to say that you've never heard of any is, frankly, ridiculous.

Primetime ran a special (this year or late last year I think) where they interviewed several cocaine addicts in Dublin. For all your assertions and opinions about drugs you seem to be a bit clueless.

AARRRGH

I am sure there are people addicted to cocaine. Just like there are people addicted to McDonalds, going to the gym, having sex, alcohol, feeling bad about themself, hurting others, etc etc.

The addiction argument doesn't really cut it with me.

dahooligan

dublindude wrote:

The addiction argument doesn't really cut it with me.

Doesn't cut what exactly? Doesn't qualify as a reason not to do it?

AARRRGH

dahooligan wrote:

Doesn't cut what exactly? Doesn't qualify as a reason not to do it?

Doesn't qualify as an anti-cocaine argument. It's too general.

Miguel_Sanchez

dublindude wrote:

The addiction argument doesn't really cut it with me.

I'm not arguing that it's a reason not to do it. I'm just saying that cocaine addiction is real. It's a physical addiction that can develop.

Saying it doesn't exist is simply wrong.

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

Er, not really ... if you look at the amount of drink related crime compared to the amount of people who actually drink and then look at the amount of drug related crime compared to the amount of people who take drugs I think you will find that a much higher precentage of drug takers are involved in crime, especially serious crime, than drink takers

Do you have a source for this or is it an assumption? I would think that the amount of drug related crime by users would be far less than drug related crime (ofc discounting the fact that taking the drug is a crime ). You just have to walk through any city centre late at night to see what people on drink are capable of. There is a small percentage of drug users who are heavily dependent on drugs such as heroine who commit crime to feed their habit but this is far outweighed by the majority of drug users imo who are not in any kind of criminal frame of mind when high and are far more chilled out than people under the heavy influence of alcohol.

Zombrex

dublindude wrote:

Drug dealers don't mix their drugs with rat poison/cement mix. Where are you getting this BS from?

Actually, yes they do ...

US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) wrote:

Uncommonly, strychnine is found mixed with “street” drugs such as LSD, heroin, and cocaine.

US Office of National Drugs Control Policy wrote:

Ounce-level purity in Miami has declined due to increasing use of adulterants, such as caffeine (new this reporting period) and "any white powder." "Any powder" is also reported in Chicago, and a wide range of other adulterants are reported elsewhere: inositol (a crystalline stereoisomeric cyclic alcohol) in El Paso and St. Louis; manitol (similar to inositol) in El Paso and Memphis; baby laxatives in Baltimore and Memphis; chalk, laundry detergent, procaine (an herbal supplement ingredient), and rat poison in Memphis; meat tenderizer (which leads to severe skin abscesses) in Boston; corn starch and crushed vitamin C in El Paso; and talcum or baby powder in Billings, El Paso, and Washington, DC.

Like I said, it isn't common (more common in heorin) but it has and does happen. Just cause you don't want to happen does mean it doesn't

dublindude wrote:

One thing someone can never call me is niave. I know a few drug dealers (not heroin.) They are people like you and me. They want to make a bit of money doing something which they feel is fine (they take the drugs themselves and don't see any problem with it/the people who buy the drugs are choosing to buy them.)

I am going to call you very niave if you believe cause the handful of drug dealers (i would imagine they aren't actually drug dealers, but the low level drug sellers ... where do they get the cocaine they sell?) you have meet are nice guys therefore all drug dealers are nice people who wouldn't ever do something harmful to make money. I must ask you where are you getting this BS.

Just a few days ago (and this was the first google result, there were loads more) a gang of cocaine dealers were arrested in relation to a murder
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/09/19/story57176570.asp

You think these people give a flying toss if you have a bad experience with a adultered cocaine mix? Are you serious... :rolleyes:

dublindude wrote:

Drug producers are professional. They know bad drugs are bad for business. They try to make the drugs correctly.

Drug dealers are professionals, and their profession is making money, not making sure you have a good time. They don't give a crap about you, and I very much doubt you falling over dead from cocaine is going to effect their business at all? What are you going to do, boycott them? Do you even know where your coke comes from? Who would you boycott?

dublindude wrote:

I can't comment on the lidocaine statment as I know nothing about that. But I assure you if you studied everything we eat, you'd find some of the ingredients are bad for you.

Yeah cause most of the food we eat is mixed, 40-60, with a powerful anesthetic :rolleyes:

SpAcEd OuT

Laguna wrote:

What are you basing this on?

I've seen people under the effects of both and I myself have been tipsy from drink, I don't think I've ever mistaken (like a chap I know who took coke/pills) a bartender for a clown in full face paint or been convinced that a bus going down the road was a chariot to take him back to Rome. Drugs like Coke/Pills bring on the onset of hallucinations as in a 'Stimulant', alcohol dehabilitates you and your senses as in a 'Depressant'.

you do not get any hallucinations whatsoever from cocaine.
MDMA in E-X-T-R-E-M-E doses may cause minor hallucinations such as colours brighter and maybe facial distortions but nothing described there.

Either your mate is an idiot attention seeker or you are lying.

Im going with the latter... www.erowid.org

if your going to join this debate educate yourself first please.

Playboy

Brother A wrote:

The moral argument, my answer, for what its worth, to the question 'why is doing cocaine wrong' :

---

Ethically, or morally speaking, the heart of Why it is wrong, I would say, is Irresponsibility.
I would see two types of this: 1.social and 2.personal

.SOCIAL IRRESPONSIBILITY

-short term behaviour: when on the drug, people often upset others
and act like jerks etc.. This is irresponsible as it upsets
and disturbs those around you, friends & family & strangers

-health effects:
i. Doing coke puts the user at an unknown, and generally
uncontrollable, risk of doing damage to their physical or mental
health --- deliberately and directly, and for their own personal
pleasure only
ii.doing coke puts the user yourself at similar risk of addiction
> Health Effects i & ii point to irresponsibility in relation to friends,
family & society. <


-law: As mentioned in the thread, and as most people would know,
using cocaine breaks the law......a crime.
A crime is often thought of as morally 'wrong' in itself.
irresponsibility here relates to disrupting the contract that
holds a society together.


-crime: As everyone will generally acknowledge, using Cocaine
lines the pockets of criminals, organised or otherwise -
which is usually not considered a good thing.


.PERSONAL IRRESPONSIBILITY
At other times &/or places, it might be the generally accepted view that the strictly 'personal' aspects of body/mind abuse involved here would in themselves be 'wrong'
Today in this society though, it seems people generally accept what one person does so long as it affects no other person.
And perhaps this is as it should be, BUT, I feel we should be wary that
'accept' does not turn to 'ignore' in this context.

---

The above irresponsibilities apply to the actual abuser of coke, and many of
the same points could of course be applied to those who encourage or condone its use.However, perhaps the charge of social irresponsibility could also be levelled at those who, knowing of its significant negative side, see or hear of the drug being used, but yet say nothing.

In all fairness that is a load of bull.

You say that people that use coke act like jerks - that is a ridiculous generalization.

You say that it puts the user at "at an unknown, and generally uncontrollable, risk of doing damage to their physical or mental health --- deliberately and directly, and for their own personal pleasure only" - no more or less than alcohol does. And what do you mean by uncontrollable?

You say that "doing coke puts the user yourself at similar risk of addiction Health Effects i & ii point to irresponsibility in relation to friends, family & society." - again no more than alcohol does.

"As mentioned in the thread, and as most people would know, using cocaine breaks the law......a crime. A crime is often thought of as morally 'wrong' in itself, rresponsibility here relates to disrupting the contract that holds a society together." - If you look to the law for your morality then you are at quite a retarded stage of development.

"As everyone will generally acknowledge, using Cocaine lines the pockets of criminals, organised or otherwise - which is usually not considered a good thing." - it also lines the pockets of poor farmers in third world countries who have nothing else to live on.

Miguel_Sanchez

Wicknight wrote:

Actually, yes they do ...

Ok - while I accept that there is plenty of nasty **** that can get mixed into drugs I do not buy the rat poison one.

I'd like to see one story where it was found that rat poison was mixed in.

I remember a Garda stating (someone linked to this in an ecstacy discussion on boards.ie this year - search is disabled though so I can't find the link now) that there had never been a case in all the ecstacy seized in Ireland of heroin or rat poison ever being added to it. Now I know we're talking about coke here but there are people who *insist* that rat poison is added to ecstacy and that heroin is added too "to get you hooked on the harder stuff" - this is BS and likewise I think that the whole rat poison added to coke thing is BS too. Mainly because while they may add nasty damaging stuff to coke, rat poison has no benefit when added. Why would they do that when they could add something cheaper and less immediately lethal?

Simply saying "actually yes they do mix coke with rat poison" doesn't prove your point. Unless you've actually seen it being done or have come into the possession of cocaine that has been cut this way then I am not convinced. Urban legends are believed too easily.

Zombrex

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Ok - while I accept that there is plenty of nasty **** that can get mixed into drugs I do not buy the rat poison one.

I really don't care if you buy it or not, I will believe the US Office of National Drugs Control Policy over you.

TBH most of the drug users sound like they just want to bury their heads and say "Nope, this doesn't happen ... blah blah blah not listening", probably because they don't want anything to stop them enjoying taking drugs. I mean honestly DublinDude telling me he doesn't believe drug dealers would do something harmful cause the ones he knows are nice lads. Thats taking the piss :rolleyes: It is very similar to the types of response you get from young people when you talk about sexual transmitted infections with them. They don't want to listen to any mention of harmful effects because they don't want to worry about anything they just want to go out and have sex.

Personally I don't really care if you or others here take drugs or not. But it is pointless to misrepresent the truth about drugs (cocaine is never mixed with harmful substances, drug deals are actually nice people, you can't get addicted to cocaine, drink is more harmful than cocaine etc etc) just cause you guys don't want to feel bad about taking it :rolleyes:

Miguel_Sanchez

Wicknight wrote:

I really don't care if you buy it or not, I will believe the US Office of National Drugs Control Policy over you.

Link? Just because you say that the US Office of National Drugs Control Policy find rat poison in coke doesn't mean they really have. I could just as easily say that they have stated they didn't find any rat poison ever. If you provide a link to these statements then I will believe it.

Wicknight wrote:

Personally I don't really care if you or others here take drugs or not. But it is pointless to misrepresent the truth about drugs (cocaine is never mixed with harmful substances, drug deals are actually nice people, you can't get addicted to cocaine, drink is more harmful than cocaine etc etc) just cause you guys don't want to feel bad about taking it :rolleyes:

I don't think you'll see me saying I take cocaine at all. Also I think if you read my post you'll find that I say that it is mixed with harmful substances. I just stated that it wasn't mixed with rat poison.

Also - the rolleyes icon at the end of an argument doesn't make you seem juvenile at all, so I'd keep that up. It's a shame they don't allow people to hold big pictures of those up during debates cause it really gets the person's point across.

growler

Cocaine does not cause hallucinations, it cannot , the chemistry isn't there for it to do that, its conceivable that if cocaine was mixed with an hallucinogen it could , but thats a different story.


Cocaine can be addictive, but it takes many years of sustained abuse for one to become physically dependent on coke, unlike nicotine for example, however there are a number of people suseptible to physological dependence on that drug , but then the chances are they would become addicted to sommething else anyway as they are prone to addictions.

" Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother A
The moral argument, my answer, for what its worth, to the question 'why is doing cocaine wrong' :

---

Ethically, or morally speaking, the heart of Why it is wrong, I would say, is Irresponsibility.
I would see two types of this: 1.social and 2.personal

.SOCIAL IRRESPONSIBILITY

-short term behaviour: when on the drug, people often upset others
and act like jerks etc.. This is irresponsible as it upsets
and disturbs those around you, friends & family & strangers"

When not on drugs people often upset others and act like jerks, some jerks when on drugs stop acting like jerks, how this relates to social responsibility rather than individual personalities I dont know.

quote" -health effects:
i. Doing coke puts the user at an unknown, and generally
uncontrollable, risk of doing damage to their physical or mental
health --- deliberately and directly, and for their own personal
pleasure only
ii.doing coke puts the user yourself at similar risk of addiction
> Health Effects i & ii point to irresponsibility in relation to friends,
family & society. <"

The health risks of taking cocaine are known, controllable and largely risk free if taken in moderation. If you are dumb enough to snort 8 grams in an evening then you are asking for trouble , if you take a line or 2 with your coffee after dinner you're unlikely to implode. "Personal Pleasure" .. well , exactly, I do lots of things for personal pleasure , some of those things may upset others ( if one was militantly opposed to golf, fishing , snooker, smoking, drinking, sex, monty python movies etc) but why does doing something for personal pleasure make it morally wrong?

AS mentioned above, the risk of coke addiction is paltry compared with the addictiveness of the two most freely available drugs in Ireland, nicotine and alcohol. I know and knew may coke heads over the years, generrally they were middle / upper class lads with too much cash and possibly low self esteem, they were well educated and were not committing crimes to fund their habit.

Cocaine is primarily a middle class drugs, few others can afford it, it has become as normalised within sections of society as coffee. Like many others I totally reject the argument that illegality makes it "wrong" , whats is wrong for me is for me to decide based on my own values and life experience. Double parking is illegal but its not a moral issue. Regarding the funding of criminality issue, its true, it does pay for spanish villas and bmws for the criminals, it also pays for the clothes on the backs of colombian cocaine growers. I am under no illusions about the ultimate fiscal beneficiaries of the cocaine trade, they are not pleasant individuals, but then our law makers have decided that these substances are illegal if it were not it would be a regulated industry like any other.

Miguel_Sanchez

Okay. I accept there was an instance of rat poison being added to cocaine in Memphis.

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/apr02/powder.html

Damn Elvis.

Miguel_Sanchez

growler wrote:

Cocaine is primarily a middle class drugs, few others can afford it

Unfortunately it's starting to get cheaper and cheaper and so is becoming a working class problem too.

Zombrex

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Just because you say that the US Office of National Drugs Control Policy find rat poison in coke doesn't mean they really have.

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/apr02/powder.html#ex3

They find an awful lot of other sh*t in coke as well ...

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Also - the rolleyes icon at the end of an argument doesn't make you seem juvenile at all, so I'd keep that up. It's a shame they don't allow people to hold big pictures of those up during debates cause it really gets the person's point across.

Sorry that little rant wasn't directed specifically at you ... though I would question why you didn't believe it was possible rat possion has been added to cocaine before. There seems to be a general idea floating round (again not specifically point at you) that drug dealers are in general nice fellas, which is rather niave in my mind

AARRRGH

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Okay. I accept there was an instance of rat poison being added to cocaine in Memphis.

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/apr02/powder.html

Damn Elvis.

Jeff, the anti-drugs, politically correct crowd will do whatever they can to focus on negatives.

I am sure if we all researched any subject we could all put a highly negative spin on it.

Wicknights arguments are desperate, ranting on about rat poison. It's laughable.

Zombrex

dublindude wrote:

Jeff, the anti-drugs, politically correct crowd will do whatever they can to focus on negatives.

I am sure if we all researched any subject we could all put a highly negative spin on it.

Wicknights arguments are desperate, ranting on about rat poison. It's laughable.

I am not ranting on about rat poison, people keep (as in over and over, and rather illogically) stating that rat posion (or specifically strychnine) has never and is never mixed with cocaine. Not only is that completely false, but I have no idea why people find it so hard to believe that it does in fact happen.

Seriously, what is your problem that you can't or won't accept simple facts? Why do you care if rat posion is in cocaine in the first place? If it is then does that mean you have to stop taking it? What are you scared of?

I'm not telling anyone not to take cocaine. I have repeatable said I don't care if people do or don't take cocaine. But what I can't stand is people mis-representing the truth about something just to make themselves feel better about what they do.

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

Personally I don't really care if you or others here take drugs or not. But it is pointless to misrepresent the truth about drugs (cocaine is never mixed with harmful substances, drug deals are actually nice people, you can't get addicted to cocaine, drink is more harmful than cocaine etc etc) just cause you guys don't want to feel bad about taking it :rolleyes:

What % of cocaine tested had the substances mentioned? I would think it is a tiny fraction of the amount of cocaine used or else the newspapers would full of stories relating to death due to rat poision in cocaine. And btw you are probably a bit naive believing US Office of National Drugs Control Policy. You have to be aware of the propogandist and misinformation approach the US Government has towards drugs.

Some drug dealers are nice people .. other are not .. just like any business in life .. again dont be too quick to believe the stereotypes and propoganda.

Alcohol is also probably just as harmful as cocaine. More people die from alcohol and cigarette related deaths than any other drug.

SpAcEd OuT

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

AARRRGH

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

I know. It makes you wonder about some of the peoples focus here.

lazydaisy

Its a cheap substitute for speed which is also used to cut coke. I believe the formal name for rat poison is strychnnne. Its also an ingredient in LSD and heroin.

http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/strychnine/basics/pdf/facts.pdf#search='strychnine'

growler

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

the rationale is that (a) rat poison is readily available (b) not illegal to possess in itself (c) comes as a powder that can be mixed with pure cocaine and (d) its use serves to prove the point that all drug dealers are self serving scum.

I don't disbelieve that poison is found in coke , I do think that the number of times is has been actually found is widely disproportionate to the amount of times this "fact" is trotted out by the anti-drug lobby as a reason why coke is bad for you, it has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of cocaine use and is tangental to the health issues involved in cocaine use.

Zombrex

Playboy wrote:

What % of cocaine tested had the substances mentioned?

Rat poison or in general?

Rat poison in cocaine is very rare, but it has happend.

Mixed with something in general it was 5% of cocaine sampled was mixed and of that five percent 29% was lidocaine.

Playboy wrote:

I would think it is a tiny fraction of the amount of cocaine used or else the newspapers would full of stories relating to death due to rat poision in cocaine.

They are ... heard of the singer Brenda Fassie, she died last year cause the crack she was smoking was mixed with rat poision.

Playboy wrote:

And btw you are probably a bit naive believing US Office of National Drugs Control Policy.

Yeah, I should believe you guys, and DublinDudes drug dealing mates, instead :rolleyes:

Playboy wrote:

Some drug dealers are nice people .. other are not .. just like any business in life .. again dont be too quick to believe the stereotypes and propoganda.

And some drug dealers kill people, routinely ...

Playboy wrote:

Alcohol is also probably just as harmful as cocaine.

And .. you want to show me where I posted that abusing alcohol was ok?

There is a "safe" level of alcohol that can be processed by the human body. Granted most people go way over that level, and when they do they are doing harm, in some cases serious harm to their bodies. There is no safe level of cocaine use. Every time you use it it is doing harm to your body.

Can anyone show me a person who has used cocaine consistently for, say 20 years, who hasn't been f**ked up by it? If you look at most celebraties or people in public who have used coke for most of their lives they are either dead or very messed up. I have yet to see, meet or hear about someone who has used cocaine for long periods of time and is perfectly fine.

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

there is absoloutely no reason to put it in

Actually there is one reason, and only one reason, and it is the same reason coke is mixed with any cheap white powder - To make money

Zombrex

growler wrote:

I don't disbelieve that poison is found in coke , I do think that the number of times is has been actually found is widely disproportionate to the amount of times this "fact" is trotted out by the anti-drug lobby as a reason why coke is bad for you, it has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of cocaine use and is tangental to the health issues involved in cocaine use.

True ... There are a lot of other things people should be worrying about there cocaine being mixed with before they start worrying about rat poison.

TBH I am more interested in why drug users refuse to believe that this ever happened ... I mean look at the posts here, post after post of people saying "That never happened" or posting "lies all lies" ... why? What are people so scared of?

SpAcEd OuT

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

Zombrex

Oh incase anyone is wondering "why rat posion?", it isn't cause the drug dealers are trying to kill you, its cause it is cheap and hard to differentiate between the poision and the coke.

Dealers pick things to mix that look like coke, not just rat poision, but a whole load of other cheaply available items. It has very little to do with the items themselves.

Gordon

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

But it happened right?

chump

Jeff_Lebowski wrote:

Also - the rolleyes icon at the end of an argument doesn't make you seem juvenile at all, so I'd keep that up. It's a shame they don't allow people to hold big pictures of those up during debates cause it really gets the person's point across.

I almost fell off my seat laughing at that one. Cheers...

About the rat poisin thing, I simply don't buy it either Wicknight. Now I've no doubt at some stage somewhere in the world rat poison was mixed with cocaine, but that doesn't make it a headline point in this argument.

Rat Poison In School Breakfast
The Sun, March 2, 2001
Shanghai (China) - A hundred primary school children in the city of Bole, Xinjiang, were taken ill after eating a breakfast spiked with rat poison. The poison was mixed with sugar to mask the taste and used to season a soup. There was no report to say how the sickened children were faring.

http://www.prn2.usm.my/mainsite/headline/poison/mac2001.html

I didn't have to do much google searching to find that.

The point is, whatever the reasons for or against the use of cocaine, I honestly wouldn't rate possible rat-poison as one of them.

It simply doesn't make sense for the people who cut the drugs...
& they hardly have a such a hard time finding glucose powder or quinine that they say, ah fekkit we'll use the rat poison today

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

thats stupid,drug dealers would not go out of their way to mix cocaine with rat poison when theres more readily availiable white powders,pure creatine seems to be a popular one,once again dealers do not want to kill their customers if their customer lives to buy more coke they make more money its as simple as that

And that is probably why rat poison mixed with coke is very rare ...

I would point out, they don't go out of their way, they pick what they have easy access to. The cases where rat poision were used the dealers probably had easy access to some rat poision.

Secondly, not all "white powder" mixes with coke so it cannot be told apart.

Thirdly, drug dealers don't care if you die after they have sold you their stuff .. there will always be more customers. They make more money by selling mixed cocaine, not by you coming back to them after being sold pure coke.

SpAcEd OuT

Gordon wrote:

But it happened right?

yes it has happened a handful of times throughout the world.

doesnt mean it happens regularly it has never even happened in Ireland so to say a statement as general as Rat Poison is put into coke is quite silly

Zombrex

chump wrote:

but that doesn't make it a headline point in this argument.

I have always said it is very rare

I have also always said their are far more common but still dangerous stuff mixed with cocaine than rat poison. But people keep fixating on that point and claiming it isn't true.

Why, I don't know. I don't really understand why people have to try and convince themselves it never happened. My guess is because they don't like to thinking about it while sniffing a line of coke.

Zombrex

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

doesnt mean it happens regularly it has never even happened in Ireland so to say a statement as general as Rat Poison is put into coke is quite ludacris

Well I guess everyone can go back to happily, and safely, snorting coke ... oh wait ... all that other stuff they do mix coke with ...

Laguna

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

you do not get any hallucinations whatsoever from cocaine.
MDMA in E-X-T-R-E-M-E doses may cause minor hallucinations such as colours brighter and maybe facial distortions but nothing described there.

Either your mate is an idiot attention seeker or you are lying.

Im going with the latter... www.erowid.org

if your going to join this debate educate yourself first please.

I'm no liar, but your obviously an expert on the matter. As you took my character and stated I was a liar, I'll deem your knowledge of the effects of drugs to mean that your an addict yourself (just following your attempt at logic).

SpAcEd OuT

Wicknight wrote:

.

Thirdly, drug dealers don't care if you die after they have sold you their stuff .. there will always be more customers. They make more money by selling mixed cocaine, not by you coming back to them after being sold pure coke.

Im sorry but if they mixed rat poison into their coke they wont have any customers to sell to simple as!

Thats like being a shop owner and the minute the purchase is completed chasing out every customer with a big knive, sooner or later no one will come to your shop

lazydaisy

Actually Wicknight, Wikipedia says its an urban myth.

Does Ireland get its coke from the same places the US does?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strychnine

http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/publications/drugfact/pulsechk/midyear2000/crackandpowder.html

SpAcEd OuT

Ireland gets its coke from spain who in turn get it from South America judging by the amount of cocaine seizures in Spain that are destined for Ireland

Laguna

Dealers/Pushers mix in other substances into coke (such as rat poison etc.) to make the **** go further, it's a simple fact, therefore making more money for them, do you think he's doing the dealing as a service for the local community?. There's nothing benign about a drug dealer, he's no lover of people and their wellbeing, he couldn't give a **** if you died from taking his merchandise because it was snowballed with other chemicals, there's plenty more @rseholes to take your place. Some people on here view drug dealers/pushers in a benevolent light, as if there's a moral code they adhere to.

SpAcEd OuT

word gets around people tell others not to buy off the dealer and the dealer loses business,dealers tend to sell in their own area so word can get around very easily. its not like dealers just hang around down dark alleys selling drugs to random people like portrayed in movies.
you usually know the dealer to begin with.

AARRRGH

Can we stop focussing on this stupid rat poison argument and get back on topic?

OP, stop sticking your nose into other peoples business. It's immature and nosy.

WhiteWashMan

i have no idea either why people keep going on about the evils of drink and comparing it with class A narcotics.

drink is legal. narcotics are not.

whats the point in comparing them. is it supposed to make everyone think that drugs should be decriminalized?

although, i did notice that playboy has stopped quoting me now that he has figured out that he was arguing with himself.

susanna

Getting back to this particular situation... I'm a friend of audge's, I was in her class and I'm just not seeing what she's seeing.

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally. Whether thats right or wrong is another matter, but the fact is that audge has greatly exaggerated the situation (not deliberately I'm sure, but audge you can be extremely judgemental and when you get an idea into your head about someone it sticks). You used to look at people getting pissed on nights out and think they were off there heads when they were simply drunk, nothing more and nothing less. And thats not something you can get worked up about seeing as you drink yourself.

The fact is, on grad night the majority of us won't be going near any cocaine, and those who might will do it very discretely. Some of us are actually really upset/ pissed off by the way you're carrying on, because we've done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. We just want to get everyone back together and celebrate our graduation, and now it just seems like you're trying to ruin the whole thing. Boycotting the grad yourself is one thing (and I would hate for you to do that) but trying to organise alternative venues and splitting the group up is really not on, especially as you're trying to get away from a 'problem' that doesn't actually exist (i.e. we're not a filthy bunch of drug addicts!)

I really hope you can just put this all to one side and have a great grad night with all the people you were friends with in college. You'll enjoy it if you just relax, but at the moment you're working yourself up in a state over nothing. I completely understand your anti-coke stance, I'm against it myself, but you can't pin this problem to our class

AARRRGH

Good post Susanna. I had a feeling she was overreacting somewhat...!

Ag marbh

susanna wrote:

Getting back to this particular situation... I'm a friend of audge's, I was in her class and I'm just not seeing what she's seeing.

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally. Whether thats right or wrong is another matter, but the fact is that audge has greatly exaggerated the situation (not deliberately I'm sure, but audge you can be extremely judgemental and when you get an idea into your head about someone it sticks). You used to look at people getting pissed on nights out and think they were off there heads when they were simply drunk, nothing more and nothing less. And thats not something you can get worked up about seeing as you drink yourself.

The fact is, on grad night the majority of us won't be going near any cocaine, and those who might will do it very discretely. Some of us are actually really upset/ pissed off by the way you're carrying on, because we've done nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. We just want to get everyone back together and celebrate our graduation, and now it just seems like you're trying to ruin the whole thing. Boycotting the grad yourself is one thing (and I would hate for you to do that) but trying to organise alternative venues and splitting the group up is really not on, especially as you're trying to get away from a 'problem' that doesn't actually exist (i.e. we're not a filthy bunch of drug addicts!)

I really hope you can just put this all to one side and have a great grad night with all the people you were friends with in college. You'll enjoy it if you just relax, but at the moment you're working yourself up in a state over nothing. I completely understand your anti-coke stance, I'm against it myself, but you can't pin this problem to our class

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dave!

SpAcEd OuT wrote:

sorry I just dont believe rat poison is put into coke,why would it be? there is absoloutely no reason to put it in other than to kill its users and why would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customers? makes no sense.

I'd say it's probably a case of an ingredient that is found in rat poison is also found in cocaine. Probably water or something.

The dealers hardly go out, buy a tub of rat poison, and kill off all their customers with it :rolleyes:

They did the same with cigarettes: "Hydrogen Cyanide: – rat poison"


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

"Fruits that have a pit, such as cherries or apricots, often contain small quantities of hydrogen cyanide in the pit. Bitter almonds, from which almond oil and flavoring is made, also contain hydrogen cyanide. Some millipedes release hydrogen cyanide as a defense mechanism."

hmmm, you don't often hear that side of the story...

EDIT:

WhiteWashMan, I think you need to get off the whole "it's illegal therefore it's different and it's wrong, it's legal therefore it's just and right" thing; laws aren't always correct. They're just supposed to represent the morals and ethics of the day, but they're made years ago and don't necessarily get changed. Point in hand, civil rights for black people in America. Now I don't think that coke should be legal or anything like that, but you're just talking sh*te.

WhiteWashMan

i tihkn the main point with the rat poison issue was that cocaine is often padded out with other substances.
i have heard tales of rat poison in heroin alright, but i think in a more general view, things like talc, crushed horse tranquillisers, etc etc etc have been used to pad out drugs.

the simple fact is, that if you go one or two levels off the streets, there are people that do this. you can argue all you want about drug dealers not wanting to kill off their customers, personally i dont know any, so i couldnt comment, but one level removed, people dont care who takes it, they sell it in bulk.

as for the post from susanna, i think she has pretty much echoed what most people have said (the whole morality and rat poison debates aside).

although why ag marbh finds so funny, i have no idea since the best argument i found from him is drugs are cool coz i use them....
its not as if susanna's post vindicates him (its a big word dear i know, but look it up)

Zombrex

DaveMcG wrote:

I'd say it's probably a case of an ingredient that is found in rat poison is also found in cocaine. Probably water or something.

The ingredent found in rat poison that has (occassionally, I stress) been found in coke (along with crack, heorin and E) is Strychnine. It is pretty hard to die from taking water (though not impossible, before someone jumps down my throat)

But, as I have repeatable said, it isn't strychnine you have to worry your coke is being mixed with, their are a lot more common substances that can be dangerous to you.

If some people really, really, believe their local drug dealer would never give them something potentially harmful just to make a bit of money, well sorry but that is just stupid on a Darwin Awards level (as in so stupid it would actually be funny if they died, horribly)

susanna wrote:

In a class of twenty people, there were about two or three that took cocaine, and they were by no means dependent on it, they used it recreationally.

If there is enough of the class to follow the OP to an alternative venue, then there is enough of the class who feel strongly about some of their class mades taking strong (illegal) drugs at their graduation party.

You sound like you know these people who take the drugs. Why not just ask these people to say they won't be doing coke that night? Problem solved.

Playboy

WhiteWashMan wrote:

i have no idea either why people keep going on about the evils of drink and comparing it with class A narcotics.

drink is legal. narcotics are not.

whats the point in comparing them. is it supposed to make everyone think that drugs should be decriminalized?

although, i did notice that playboy has stopped quoting me now that he has figured out that he was arguing with himself.

Actually I was away for the weekend

I'm not a cocaine user but the point I was making is that when it comes to the issue of drugs there is huge hypocrisy. Someone who goes out like the OP and gets drunk and then feels like she can lecture other people on what they put into their body is quite ridiculous. At the end of the day it is no ones business but your own what you do with your body. People who are quick to judge and lecture people because the have a substance dependency are usually the ones who are the biggest hypocrits.

Playboy

Wicknight wrote:

You sound like you know these people who take the drugs. Why not just ask these people to say they won't be doing coke that night? Problem solved.

Why should these people have to say anything. The OP is obviosly a tantrum throwing control freak. Better off w/o her at the grad imo.