Would you take part in the proposed IrelandOffline BLACKOUT ?

Toast

No.

Why?

I dont think its going to achieve anything.

Eircom has done a LOT of unpopular things in the past and there has been a LOT more media and public backlash than this about other issues (per min billing, min call charges etc). These were things that effected everyone not just internet users and nothing happened and we are still suffering from the effects of them.

They will do what the always do. Stall with words until the media lose interest.

dahamsta

I dont think its going to achieve anything.

So what should we do Toast?

adam

Farls

Just say when and i'd definitley be on for it, get all the net gamers also they'd definitley go for something like this also this is something that would get on the news definitley, remember when the last IOFFL seminar was held cuz the same day the builders held a march thru dublin about the safety on worksites and if i remember correctly there were less than 500 of them and they got some serious news coverage primetime like...the kinda thing that IOFFL needs, i haven't been able to keep upto date with the site in the past few weeks with college and the likes but this is the best thing i could of hoped for to come back too....good idea adam just get the auld cogs turning now...hehe

Farlz

Toast

Originally posted by dahamsta
I dont think its going to achieve anything.

So what should we do Toast?

adam

Ah now I dont recommend asking me that.
But too late.

Well im all for getting a REALLY powerful radio transmitter and playing Whitney Houston's "My Love is your love" at ear bleeding volume over all frequencys until it drives the entire nation insane and they all descend on Eircom offices everywhere with pitchforks and torches.

But seriously if its going to work you have to make the ENTIRE country take part. It cant focus on the internet angle of things.
You must have every county involved. Ever Business and every residential user up in arms and not using their phones or mobiles etc. And Huge Anti Eircom Parades! Name it national No Eircom Day. Have people burning their share certs on the streets and wearing anti eircom t-shirts. Then the Gods will notice!

I'll probably be told that Im being stupid and not taking this seriously but in reality if you do anything less than this It will not make any difference.
Never EVER do something by halves.

dahamsta

But seriously if its going to work you have to make the ENTIRE country take part. It cant focus on the internet angle of things.
You must have every county involved. Ever Business and every residential user up in arms and not using their phones or mobiles etc. And Huge Anti Eircom Parades! Name it national No Eircom Day. Have people burning their share certs on the streets and wearing anti eircom t-shirts. Then the Gods will notice! I'll probably be told that Im being stupid and not taking this seriously but in reality if you do anything less than this It will not make any difference. Never EVER do something by halves.

I'm not going to tell you you're stupid, but I am going to tell you you're being unrealistic and you're daydreaming. I'm a daydreamer as well, I'd love The BLACKOUT to be that big, that effective. But I'm also a realist, and I know with absolute certainty that what you suggest can't and won't happen.

But I'll give you your say, because that's what IrelandOffline is all about. Please tell us - exactly how would you go about what you suggest?

adam

Toast

Originally posted by dahamsta

I'm not going to tell you you're stupid, but I am going to tell you you're being unrealistic and you're daydreaming. I'm a daydreamer as well, I'd love The BLACKOUT to be that big, that effective. But I'm also a realist, and I know with absolute certainty that what you suggest can't and won't happen.

But I'll give you your say, because that's what IrelandOffline is all about. Please tell us - exactly how would you go about what you suggest?

adam

Time and Money.

Trojan

I'll do what little I can.

If we need to go to the pub to discuss this, count me in!

-- I'd like to see a reply from a boards admin as to what they're going to do with this site

-- For people who are worried about taking completely offline what about a "Blackout-light" with a redirection page that redirects to either the IOFFL B/out page or to the moved root of the website (ie http://www.boards.ie/blackout/vbulletin )

Al.

dahamsta

Time and Money.

How long should we wait, and where do we get the money?

adam

Toast

Originally posted by dahamsta
Time and Money.

How long should we wait, and where do we get the money?

adam

I have been led to believe that you have the support of many business men and Ireland Offline is frequently saying how the desire for cheap broadband isnt just for gamers to download CS patches but in the interest of Businesses around the country.
Petition businesses, get backing, raise funds. If it really is in their interest then it shouldnt be too hard to present this as an investment.

Jeeze if it comes to it and you cant get corporations backing you have fundraising CS sessions in webcafes who support the cause.

By time I mean the members of Ireland Offlines time. Its up to someone to put in the effort and time to organise such things.

irishguy

i vote no, because i have a flat rate 512k connection which i pay 4 even if i dont use and i couldnt go the entire weekend without using it.there is not much point in me taking part because i have what ur fighting 4 also i need to use my mobile phone.

G

I think your ideas are great Adam & I shall be taking down my business and 2 personal sites to show my support and replace them with a link the IRLOL site and explanation.

Toast: Time and Money can come in time. This is something that can set the ball rolling and can be built on as peeps catch wind. Adam's right, us Irish need a slap in the face when it comes to stuff like this.

G

Digi_Tilmitt

I will definetly take part.

dahamsta

To everyone who has offered their support, it's very much appreciated, and my apologies for not replying to you all. The situation as it stands is that the committee has contacted me privately to let me know that they are discussing the concept. If they come up with a consensus of support, it will no doubt be announced here.

To irishguy: (Please note that I'm not singling people out to embarass or attack them, just to clarify.) You say you need to use your mobile phone, well, that's fine, no-one's stopping you. The mobile market is competitive, and we're not protesting about that. And of course Eircom no longer has a wireless section to speak of, so you wouldn't be hurting them by using it. In fact, I would encourage people to use their mobiles *instead* of their landlines on the Friday, because it will take traffic off Eircom's network, and hell, let's be honest, I like Digifone, I think they're a good company.

As to your broadband connection, if it's not connected to Eircom's network, I don't care. If it is, how about putting the money issue aside for a day and making a statement? I don't care about money when it comes to this protest, because no matter what we do it'll just be a short blip in Eircom's financial records. But if you make a statement you might injure their brand. And maybe even their pride.

adam

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by dahamsta
The response is fantastic - certainly more than I was expecting - but although I appreciate honesty, I'm having difficulty understanding the logic behind voting not to take part. Not being able to is fine, as is a maybe vote, but actually refusing to take part? Why? Can anyone who voted this way explain why to me? Is it on religious grounds or something? (Just kidding!)

No flaming now folks, everyone should have a say. I just want to make sure nobody is misunderstanding what I'm proposing here.

adam

I don't see what the point is in taking part in a 'boycott' that is being operated by a tiny fringe of the internet user population in the country, and especially when it is right in the middle of the current tussle between the ODTR and Eircom over broadband.

Also how many of the voters in this poll are surfnolimits and will have no visible affect anyway ? And if there is no visible affact then what is achieved ?

IOFFL has launched brilliantly and peaked with a great seminar. I have been waiting for it's follow up now for many weeks. It looks as if there are no ideas for how to take it forward as a serious pressure group - yet.

However considering the current ODTR/Eircom tussle I would recommend we sit tight now for a few weeks and see how it pans out.

Jumping in like a bunch of nerds - and yes that's what the boycott will LOOK like - will only drag IOFFL's image down to that level. IOFFL's business supporters won't support it. Our political supporters won't support it. Only the hard core activists - valuable and critically important as they are - will do so.

End result - Lots of self congratulations by the activists - - but NO real affect on Eircom; the kind of nerdy publicity about the IOFFL that Eircom will LOVE; creating the kind of image of IOFFL among the public that will cancel out all the work done to date. And IOFFL's image is everything.

I urge people to sit tight for the dust to settle on the current tussle - and then jump in with another initiative such as a business orientated seminar or a public meeting or similar, focussed on the outcome. If the tussle goes the ODTR's way then the spotlight needs to be tightened on Flatrate - if it goes Eircom's way then all the more reason for major action. But trivial and marginal action can be worse than no action.

Yes I know the activists only want cheerleaders, but someone has to put the other side.

angryuser

I voted yes, BUT I have to agree with a lot of what HMMM said. [I seem to be agreeing with him over quite a few things. :-)]
I have gone along with everything so far. Donated a few quid too (although never acknowledged ?) I have lobbied the Minister about the recent FF Parliamentary party meeting. I was asked to write to him. I did. The reply I got back was so bad I felt it sort of summed up lots of things wrong with our country ? My name was incorrectly spelt, my address was incorrect, and the one line reply stated that the contents had been 'noted' !! I have been on several committees trying to 'right' 'wrongs' but I gave up, as it seems nobody cares ? Nobody in 'authority' that is, and as a nation generally we tend to prefer to sit back and 'take all the ****' ?? So, why do I think HMMM is right ? Well right in some of what he said. I do not think it will hurt Eircom, or that the Govt will take the slightest interest. I have been one of Eircom's biggest 'haters' since many, many years ago, and have spent many a time complaining and arguing with senior staff, but at the end of the day they do not care 'one hoot' as they have constantly shown. The only thing that gets real publicity in Ireland, are very large protests by 'whole' communities about the environment or some other significant 'social' aspect of concern. (and good luck to all of them who succeed) but I do not think Eircom, or the Govt, or any other ISP will give a hoot at what is proposed. Sure, the media might take it up, but only in their own interests, and only then if they consider it will sell more papers !! or do their organisation any good. I voted yes, because I believe in protest at injustices, but my experience has shown that 'most' protests fall on deaf ears. ? The only thing that speaks in this country is 'Money' or 'Power' and 'Position' and those that have it don't give a hoot for those that haven't. !! So, I honestly do not believe that anything will be achieved, from what will eventually be a great deal of work by a 'small' band of people.
p.s. I also have to agree somewhat with 'Smokin & Chewin'.. I think he has a point worth considering ??

Block (8

Yup count me in......but damn a whole weekend tho better dust off the cover of that book I have lying somewhere

sceptre

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man

Also how many of the voters in this poll are surfnolimits and will have no visible affect anyway ?

Well, here's one. But if I don't dial up at all for the weekend, Eircom won't be making .4p a minute on the interconnect charge.

IKiigan

I'm voting yes.

To all the people saying it won't hurt Eircom - you are dead wrong. Sure, it won't hurt them financially, but their PR image will take a further battering if all the popular press is reporting of a "boycott of Eircom for 24 hours".

Let's do this boycott thing, and spread word of it far and wide
I wanna see it on The Register, Ireland.com, Boards.ie (duh) and everywhere!

Maybe we could get Esat to mention it on their website too

Stephen

I'm all for it ... I'm one of the ones booted from NoLimits many moons ago

o_donnel_abu

Sorry about length of this post but i am extremely busy work-wise so I've put number of points into one post.

In fairness to other users, if you want to reply to any specific points, please snip out the irrelevant bits


Toast

I dont think its going to achieve anything.

Some people said 4 months ago that setting up IOFFL was a waste of time

Toast

But seriously if its going to work you have to make the ENTIRE country take part. It cant focus on the internet angle of things.

We've been saying for some time that we need to bring the issues into a wider domain than just the IT sector. There's a chicken and egg situation here - although this protest will be IT focussed, it is more than likely to catch the attention of the non-technical media and thus bring the issues to a wider audience.

Toast

Time and Money...I have been led to believe that you have the support of many business men and Ireland Offline is frequently saying how the desire for cheap broadband ...(is)...in the interest of Businesses around the country. .

Couple of things here. First we are a voluntary, part-time body so there is a limit on our time. Further on, you talk about members time - Adam has already put a lot of time into this, we would welcome any input from members who are prepared to take the lead on other things - <hint><hint> .

You're right about 'big' business but despite several attempts by me to involve Small firms Association and IBEC, we haven't been able to generate any great interest. Seeing how things have developed over last few months, I am coming to view that the fact that we are not associated with big business is a plus factor in regards to politicians and media; that is personal view and needs to be debated. One thing that was debated at our public meeting and clearly agreed on was that we would not seek financial support from big business as it could compromise our independence.


dahamsta

The committee has contacted me privately to let me know that they are discussing the concept.

I know you already know this, Adam, but just for the record, I have posted a statement of official support from the committee on http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32149&pagenumber=2

Just in case anyone has missed it, there is also an announcement that Adam has now been co-opted as an official member of the IOFFL committee at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32340


smokin' an'chewin' man

I don't see what the point is in taking part in a 'boycott' that is being operated by a tiny fringe of the internet user population in the country

See my reply to Toast above


smokin' an'chewin' man

IOFFL has launched brilliantly and peaked with a great seminar. I have been waiting for it's follow up now for many weeks. It looks as if there are no ideas for how to take it forward as a serious pressure group - yet.

Actually, it's four weeks. Just 'cos we're not discussing things in public doesn't mean we're not doing anything. As outlined in earlier postings, we are focusing on politicians right now; we can't say too much at this stage so please be patient
(Part of the reason for focusing on politicians ties in with your later comments that IOFFl needs to stand back a bit whilst ODTR and Eircom have their Showdown at the OK Corral )


angryuser

Donated a few quid too (although never acknowledged ?)

Apologies for that, angryuser, and anyone else in same position - our admin went bit awry in days leading up to seminar; please email me direct about this.

Martin Harran

seamus

Although, if you're going to hurt them - it has to be thought of realistically, in that, most of the joe soaps on the road know nothing about how bad eircom is. Maybe any money gained could be used to make the people aware in Dublin, Cork, Galway, and any other large areas affordable, through informative leaflets(like government pre-vote propaganda), pointing out what eircom aren't offering in comparison to our (less-well off, even better) european neighbours. This is allowed, as long as only facts are used, because IOFFL is a non-profit organisation, so cries of unfair advertising cannot be used against you. I wouldn't assume that the media is going to sit up and listen - sometimes you have to shout in their ear to get their attention.

A buildup would then have to be started towards a blackout - small ads in the papers eg. 'Remember - The eircom blackout is on October 14th - Are you in?' or something less cheesy.

For the blackout - try doing 2 days of it, preferably a Friday and Saturday. Those of you who own businesses could have a policy on that day of only using the company's mobiles(eircell is no longer part of eircom, they are a totally separate entity now), and only using your ISDN connections to receive email at the start of the day, and send again at the end of the day. For most businesses these days, the day ends early on Friday, so it wouldn't be a huge drawback. Try the same for you home users - boycott your landline and only use your mobile - the network will be busy, but think of how worth it it'll be.

And to top it all off - get some vote-hungry minister involved and you get some publicity for free, on the telly and all!!

Flame me if you want, but I think this is a far more realistic solution than some have suggested, and would have the impact needed for such a huge-scale operation. Simply boycotting eircom is no good. You have to hit them where it actually hurts - in the PR dept.

elexes

yes i will take part and am willing to stay off the net for a week . maby longer if it needs it

seamus

Looking at the poll above, we could use eircom's tactics and scare them by saying 'In a poll conducted by IOFFL, nearly 80% of internet users said they would be willing to boycott their internet and/or phone connections for any specified period of time'.

The poll is heavily biased, only includes 126 people (at this time), and no-one has given any specifics on their boycotting, but that statment above is the absolute truth, and is an example of what eircom have been doing to show down Esat, the need for ADSL, and their pricing versus continental pricing.

dahamsta

Looking at the poll above, we could use eircom's tactics and scare them by saying 'In a poll conducted by IOFFL, nearly 80% of internet users said they would be willing to boycott their internet and/or phone connections for any specified period of time'.

Indeed. I notice the majority is slowly, very slowly in fact, decreasing, but I think it's important to get an honest and wide-ranging reaction anyway. And 80% is still a very large majority, when you consider the scale of what we're asking people to do. Not only that, but I think some, if only a couple, of the 'no' votes have been made in error, because of my own failure to get across the suggestion accurately.

The poll is heavily biased, only includes 126 people (at this time), and no-one has given any specifics on their boycotting, but that statment above is the absolute truth, and is an example of what eircom have been doing to show down Esat, the need for ADSL, and their pricing versus continental pricing.

FYI, there will be more specifics of what will be involved in The BLACKOUT next week. As I now have the backing of the committee to develop specifics, I will be producing suggestions and content to be approved by the rest of the committee and shortly thereafter developed into a website dedicated to The BLACKOUT, including: details of how to get involved; suggestions for actions to be taken; and information on how to propogate the protest to the public and the media.

On that note, I'm very pleased to see people adding links to the poll and the suggestion itself in their sigs on Boards.ie, and I would like to suggest that others think about doing the same; or linking directly to the newly relaunched IrelandOffline website. I say this not out of any sense of vanity, but with the large proportion of Boards.ie members who would be affected by the actions of IrelandOffline in mind. If you feel strongly about IrelandOffline, you may in addition or as an alternative wish to consider adding a line in your email signature.

adam

Kopf

I actually voted "Unsure", but now that I come to think about it, it's Hallowe'en weekend, innit? Lots of parties on then, it'll be easy to stay away from the net.. Thanks for choosing this weekend.

Mandiven

A definite yes, maybe they will notice us more when we cut into there *big* profits.

chernobyl

Originally posted by Mandiven
A definite yes, maybe they will notice us more when we cut into there *big* profits.

yeah sure, a 100 peeps will make them notice us and respect us....cmon.

i respect that you guys want to take a stand but think and act big

Chaos-Engine

YES!!!

Total Blackout

Maybe we could get some Hosting providers to put all there sites down.(maybe alittle mad from a business prospective):D

SkepticOne

Timing is important here, I think. The blackout is a good idea, but it might be best to leave it untill after the Valentia sale goes through and a period of time has passed for people to realise what is happening. Currently I imagine politicians get a lot more pressure from the 500,000 angry shareholders than from an Internet access pressure group. At the moment it is very hard for pressure to be put on Eircom because of this. With a bit of luck, some of these shareholders will transfer their attention to the services they are getting from Eircom and that is the stage for this sort of protest.

Digi_Tilmitt

Maybe we could mention the blackout to our local TD's. As was mentioned earlier there is a coming election and we could tell them this is an issue that matters to us. It's a bit unrealistic but if enough people try we could have an effect.