Wireless Lans about to be made illegal shortly..ODTR

spongebob

Bad news this

According to a discussion document on the ODTR website only Bluetooth may be used without a Telecommunications licence (page 24-26 ISTR)

ODTR website Doc 81

WLANS are not included in the exempt category. In the previous section it is stated that a Licence is needed for Fixed Wireless Access.

Interestingly in a later section on managing the spectrum, it is indicated that WLANs may be acceptable if you are 'on the move', but you will need a licence if you are in a fixed location such as at home.

I wonder about that constitutional case about right to freedom of movement including the right to stop when one wishes.

She does want to hear from the public about this, you got 2 months.

M

zenith

Hi,

I don't think you're correct ... but I could be wrong?

---

7.7 SHORT RANGE DEVICES

The term "Short Range Device" (SRD) has been adopted by both the CEPT and ETSI. It is intended to cover the radio transmitters which provide either uni-directional or bi-directional communication over short distances and which have low capability of causing interference to other radio spectrum users.

A wide range of spectrum use has been made exempt from individual licensing, typically because the power and propagation characteristics of these services is so localised that they do not materially interfere with other spectrum users. With advances in radio technology, there is growing commercial interest in developing products that utilise SRD technology. Some of the services developed for permitted short range device spectrum can be partial substitutes for and/or complements to licensed spectrum applications, such as mobile phones. The absence of spectrum usage charges may encourage commercial operators to focus their research efforts on using this spectrum. Equally, the lack of protection from interference offered to users of such spectrum may militate against operators providing a commercial service, since they may face difficulties in guaranteeing the quality of transmissions.

Use of permitted SRD in Ireland is on a non-interference non-protected basis. Users of such spectrum must not cause interference to other authorised spectrum users, nor can they claim protection from interference from such services. With short range propagation and few devices in any given geography, the risk of interference caused by SRD use has been shown in studies to be relatively low. Technology advances offer the prospect of increasing the intensity of spectrum use in these bands through the use of systems which are automatically self-protecting and self-regulating in a sense, that is, avoiding interference coming into the band and avoiding transmitting over other signals within the band.

The use of spectrum for SRD poses a number of regulatory challenges including:
· How to regulate growing congestion in spectrum were short range devices are permitted to operate.
· To target regulation where it is needed, to help different spectrum users resolve efficiently their competing demands to use a particular radio frequency, avoiding unnecessary over-regulation


The Use of Spectrum by Short Range Devices (SRD) in Ireland.
A complete list of permitted short range devices permitted in Ireland are contained in Annex 4 to the national table of frequency allocations. Within Ireland, short-range devices may be operated, within the confines of the technical parameters given, without the requirement of an individual license.

The general terms of use are that:
- SRDs in general operate in shared bands and are not permitted to cause harmful interference to other radio services
- in general SRDs cannot claim protection from other radio services
- due to the increasing interest in the use of SRDs for a growing number of applications it is necessary to harmonise frequencies and regulations for these devices
- there is a need to distinguish between different applications
- additional applications and associated annexes will be added as necessary

SRDs use either integral, dedicated or external antennas and all modes of modulation can be permitted subject to relevant standards and SRD cover a large range of different services, including Telecommand and Telecontrol, Telemetry, Alarms and Speech /Video equipment. Also included in as short range devices are cordless telephones, baby monitors, wireless microphones and radio LANs.

In order to harmonise the spectrum used by short range devices in Europe the CEPT has adopted eighteen Decisions concerning the various frequency bands for low power devices, and specific short range devices. The Decisions describe the requirements for SRDs relating to allocated frequency bands, maximum power levels, equipment antenna, channel spacing, duty cycle, licensing, conformity assessment, marking and free circulation requirements. Much of the equipment covered would come within the ambit of the R&TTE Directive. The European Telecommunications Standards Institute (ETSI) has also developed standards for the majority of these devices.


New Developments in SRD
The following proposals are been monitored in the ODTR:
· The development of a European strategic plan for the use of the band 862-870 MHz for Short Range Devices in future.
· A European strategic plan for the use of the frequency spectrum within the band 2400-2483.5 MHz based on the international trends and market development as the band 2400-2483.5 MHz is currently the only world wide harmonised band for SRD applications.

The introduction of new SRD is being monitored through participation in ECC working Groups and the evolution of ERC Recommendation 70-03 .


Short range Device Spectrum Management Objectives:
· Permitting the use of SRD in bands allocated to low power applications where ever possible having regard to the general terms of SRD usage.
· Monitor market interest in the development of SRD .
· Contribute to the work of the CEPT, in association with industry, in seeking harmonised bands for low power use.
· Consider the implementation of CEPT Decisions on short range devices
· Continually update and expand ERC REC 70-03 on Short Range Devices.

dathi1

Pirate radio has a healthy history in this country........but I think Pirate wireless LAN WAN will eclipse this.

R. Daneel Olivaw

Ah, just what I like to read after reading of Intel's new 802.11a which ups the bandwidth to a healthy 54Mbps.

The ODTR can either:
a) allow us cheap widespread broadband
or
b) shut the **** up about WLAN issues as it may be the only option. Can't I wireless LAN in my own ****ing home or that too much to ****ing ask?

Exactly what the utter **** right do they have to limit our use of technology available in other EU countries? What, will using non-MS certified OSs be illegal next?

kendragon

Hey maybe we've been reading the ODTR wrong in the past... maybe they dont actually want us to have highspeed affordable internet access... why else would they take so long to sort out eircom and then take away the only alternative means at (at least some of us) our disposal.

ando

... and delay ADSL .... which is good or bad ?? I really don't know. The fact is that i am still dialing up with my 56k and paying by the bloody minute .... Good work ODTR, well done ..

Boston

Originally posted by kendragon
Hey maybe we've been reading the ODTR wrong in the past... maybe they dont actually want us to have highspeed affordable internet access... why else would they take so long to sort out eircom and then take away the only alternative means at (at least some of us) our disposal.

Eircom switched ownership of the actual lines from Eircom onto another company, this was an old and obvious trick to stop/delay llu and bitstream. the odtr should have hit them extremely hard for it but didnt, they could have even taken them to brussels over it but didnt. instead she waits and makes a stand now of all times, to little to late. you have a person running the odtr that lacks any real understanding of the internet and the people of ireland.

Chaos-Engine

From what i have read
EVERYTHING IS FOR SALE
Bloody capitalism

spongebob

The following section quoted from Zenith.....

"7.7 SHORT RANGE DEVICES

The term "Short Range Device" (SRD) has been adopted by both the CEPT and ETSI. It is intended to cover the radio transmitters which provide either uni-directional or bi-directional communication over short distances and which have low capability of causing interference to other radio spectrum users. "

....is a reference to bluetooth or any transmitter with a power of 100mw or less ..... 100mw gives a range of 50m @ 1Mbit outdoors from what I know which is by no means definitive, nothing like the 11Mbit or 54Mbit capability of 802.11 b and a respectively.

This will also mean that electro magnetic interference from improperly shielded microwave ovens and unshielded car starter motors does not fall into the category of Pirate Radio transmissions which would require action by the ODTR!

802.11 is ONLY referred to by the ODTR for use in places like airports.

see section 7.2 of the document.

note that the examples are 'public' places and not the 'home', an important distinction,

I accept that the ODTR has noted international trends in the 2.4Ghz waveband, but only as an afterthought.

Why does the ODTR not note national and international development along with the rural and sparsly populated nature of the Irish Countryside and the need for decent transmitters.

Then exempt them from licencing, explicitly.

ElNino

I don't see how this ban could be enforced so I wouldn't worry about it.

spongebob

The ban can be enforced quite easily.

The technology is always on. There are strong laws in Ireland with heavy fines against illegal transmissions already.

If there is a complaint in an area about an illegal RF event, could be a CB radio interfering with an Ambulance radio for example, then a simple investigation will find all the 802.11 equipment (before they find the real problem probably) and they can be located with direction finding equipment.

Court orders can be obtained.

Raids can be conducted.

Court cases follow, try explaining to the Judge that 'it was only a network base station your honour, it never interfered with any Ambulance sure it didn't'

The owners of the confiscated equipment will end up paying for the whole investigation thru the fines. On the ODTR goes somewhere else to do the same thing.

If you do not believe this then look at how sucessful IMRO have been in enforcing Performance rights for musicians, they have mopped up shops/pubs/lifts in buildings/buses with an enforcement regime that actually pays its own way.

The ODTR will ultimately pay its own way too thru a combination of licence income from operators and fines for unlicenced operators.

Gavin

I was under the impression that the range of 2.4-2.5 Ghz is unlicensed throughout the world and is fair game..

Gav

spongebob

It is implicitly licenced at very low power output, exceed this output and you will need a licence. Exceed without a licence and you will fall under the Telecommunications act 1996 , £1500 fine and £100 a day thereafter till u scrap it.

Baud

....is a reference to bluetooth or any transmitter with a power of 100mw or less ..... 100mw gives a range of 50m @ 1Mbit outdoors from what I know which is by no means definitive, nothing like the 11Mbit or 54Mbit capability of 802.11 b and a respectively.

If it is a reference to a transmitter of < 100mW, then 802.11b is fine. No card (without mods) transmis more than 100mW.

If that's so, then the law isn't changing, because that's the limit they've always had.

spongebob

I AM referring to outdoors, and only outdoors.

I use cat 5 indoors, the house is wired with cat 5E in most rooms

I need 802.11 to communicate with the neighbours 500M away , using an external antennae on the base station, they would also have an external antennae (or 2 ) on theirs.

This system is a neighbourhood relay.

C

kimodo

Do you know what the ceiling power output is ?

I`m just setting up equipment here in D.2, pending launch of DSL,
and these new potential restrictions are very bad news.
Was thinking of using both an omni and a directional at 28dBi.

Also heard that unlike DSL trials, there may be limits on what ammount of data you can d/l. like over 1G a month and they bill you for anything on top.

This country is really backward man !

ekehoe

I'm not going to pretend that I know about wireless access, but I do know that the ODTR has put up a white paper asking for opinions about the Radio spectrum in Ireland. This is your chance, lads. Go to www.odtr.ie, download the paper, read and make informed, intelligent arguments for or against what they're saying. This is your chance to make sure they know what we think.

The more of those they get back by the deadline, the better...

E

spongebob

This whole thread is about that document, see message number 1

ekehoe

Originally posted by Muck
This whole thread is about that document, see message number 1

<smacks forehead>Chalk it up to hormonal imbalance.

Well, okay, this is a great conversation y'all are having, but be sure to make comments and send them all in.

I'll go back to lurking now...

E

Chaos-Engine

It shouldn't effect us

that Band is so high it should only effect ppl trying to connect to satilites right next to the base station

kendragon

I've read all your posts and my eyes are now crossed and my brain sore from all the techie posts... i just want to ask one thing... If this goes ahead its going to affect chorus powernet users (and other wireless operators)... right?

spongebob

Chorus are explicitly licenced to use the equipment they propose to deploy for Powernet.

kendragon

Nice one.... Thanks muck

spongebob

It is being discussed on

Irishwan

To a more technical extent at present. I like the squatting suggestion