The REG on the "blackout"

chernobyl

i think they got the pricing slightly wrong.

it costs IR£61 a month

or is this sterling pricing?




Read it here

segadreamcast

Hehe, yep

Urban Weigl

Maybe someone from the committee could email them to fix this issue? I've often seen The Register issue updates to articles after they've been published.

Furthermore, how about emailing them an errorcom mirror or two?

Edit: I just emailed Kieren about this myself now. I also included a few Errorcom mirrors just for the fun of it.

SkepticOne

This appears to be the sterling equivelant of the Irish ex VAT price.

As such it should not be compared with the BT ADSL price of GBP 40 since this figure includes VAT at 17.5%.

For a more accurate figure, convert IEP 93.55 (this is the price residental users will pay) to sterling and you get GBP 74.22. Possibly the most expensive price for crippled ADSL in the world.

Note: GBP = Pounds Sterling, IEP = Irish Pounds.

I have not seen the correct price anywhere in print. Instead I continually see the ex-VAT price without the words ex-VAT. I have heard that the original price on the adsl.ie site did not mention that the price was ex-VAT. This is shocking since 512k ADSL is a residential product everywhere in the developed world.

dahamsta

From: adam beecher
Sent: 05 October 2001 21.06
To: kieren mccarthy @ the register
Subject: Re: Irish punters call for Net boycott

Kieran,

The price Eircom proposed for the base-level DSL product, "i-Stream solo", was IEP£97 (GBP£76.36) all-in. The product has not in fact been released, because the Regulator has directed Eircom to delay rollout until a pricing issue has been resolved. She did not give details of the pricing issue, beyond saying that it was a "margin-squeeze" problem, but Eircom's largest competitor in the State, Esat (owned by your good friends BT), has apparently released a statement saying that the wholesale product was a minimum of five times that of the Eircom retail product. (Ironic I know, to have a BT agency bitching about it from the other side, but there you go.)

On that subject, for the first year, Eircom's pricing works out very close to twice the price of BT's equivalent product, OpenWorld "home" (~IEP£1500 for "solo"; ~IEP£750 for "home"). It is only available in selected exchanges in one city, Dublin. And finally, we did write to the ODTR. We've also met with them, Eircom, Esat and the Department for Public Enterprise; and we arranged a seminar with all of the aforementioned organisations, together with representatives of other relevant organisaions in the audience. This was in fact the first time any organisation has been able to get them all in the same room in front of the public at the same time.

We very much appreciate any media coverage we get, however we're also keen to have our organisation, and the current situation in Ireland, portrayed as accurately as possible. To that end, I would like to make it clear that you're welcome to contact us with any enquiries for clarification or correction. This of course applies to other Reg journalists, in particular Tim Richardson, who reported on the seminar we organised just recently. The contact details of our PRO, Elena Kehoe; or our Chairman, Martin Harran, are available on our website:

http://www.irelandoffline.com/ContactUs.asp

Regards,
adam

__________________________________________

adam beecher

IrelandOffline Committeeeeee-Type Person
__________________________________________

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
The price Eircom proposed for the base-level DSL product, "i-Stream solo", was IEP£97 (GBP£76.36) all-in.

Are you sure about this? According to the website the price is IR£77.97. Add in VAT @ 20% and you get 93.55. I could be wrong on the rate of VAT, though.

R. Daneel Olivaw

Nah, you're missing the point: the price is a very nice sounding 99 euros inc. VAT.

Of course, it's also ludicrously large at 99 euros, but that's why it's there. They also can't be held to that recent investigation about stores increasing prices to nice sounding Euro equivalents, as they have not got a product out yet.

The main bitch I have is that it's marketed to residential consumers (or do businesses suddenly give a **** about a guy in a mouse suit.......that definitely is NOT marketing-for-businesses), and yet they refuse to give reasonable residential access.

So whatever the price is/was, it's meant to be 99 euros inc. VAT. Work backwards from there.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by R. Daneel Olivaw
Nah, you're missing the point: the price is a very nice sounding 99 euros inc. VAT.

Of course, it's also ludicrously large at 99 euros, but that's why it's there. They also can't be held to that recent investigation about stores increasing prices to nice sounding Euro equivalents, as they have not got a product out yet.

The main bitch I have is that it's marketed to residential consumers (or do businesses suddenly give a **** about a guy in a mouse suit.......that definitely is NOT marketing-for-businesses), and yet they refuse to give reasonable residential access.

So whatever the price is/was, it's meant to be 99 euros inc. VAT. Work backwards from there.

But it is not EUR 99 inc. VAT. It is EUR 99 ex-VAT.

R. Daneel Olivaw

WHAT????? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought it was 99 euros inc VAT! That at least I could see marketroids coming up with.....for ****ser saker!!!!!

dahamsta

Are you sure about this? According to the website the price is IR£77.97. Add in VAT @ 20% and you get 93.55. I could be wrong on the rate of VAT, though.

You're right about the VAT, and no, I'm not 100% certain about the price, but I calculated it a couple of times when I was on the Eircom website and that's what I remember. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they changed the price, I don't know. Either way, the price Kieran gave, ex-VAT, was very misleading. It would have been better if he'd mentioned the currency.

Chernobyl, thanks for pointing it out, I'd finished with The Reg for the night, so I wouldn't have spotted it until the morning. Urban Weigl, nice one for emailing Kieran to clear up the mistakes.

adam

dahamsta

Funny, that article doesn't appear on the front page for me. Odd.

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
You're right about the VAT, and no, I'm not 100% certain about the price, but I calculated it a couple of times when I was on the Eircom website and that's what I remember. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they changed the price, I don't know. Either way, the price Kieran gave, ex-VAT, was very misleading. It would have been better if he'd mentioned the currency.

It was possible that the email had not yet been sent and it's worth getting the amount we're being ripped-off correct, if possible. I agree that the use of ex-VAT pricing is misleading particularly for an obvious home product such as ADSL. I believe that the misleading information came originally from Eircom's ADSL website which neglected to specify "ex-VAT" in the early version of the prices. Someone then emailed these prices to the journo. It is interesting that even without the VAT the prices are still outragious.

ekehoe

Originally posted by dahamsta
The contact details of our PRO, Elena Kehoe; or our Chairman, Martin Harran, are available on our website

Actually, I spoke with Tim yesterday, and was looking for this article...it seems more of an editorial piece than a news piece. When we get more set in stone about the Blackout, and send it round to the various media folk, we'll get a better article from it, hopefully.

Good email ya sent there, Adam.

E

dahamsta

You should have seen the first draft Elena. You wouldn't have liked that at all...

adam

Shamie

Hehe, I didn't think they would actually post that on their site.

I would just like to say I sent the emails to everyone on their contact list and they did put it on their site so if anyone else has anything send it.

Heres the email I sent them.

"Hi,



You may know already about the situation regarding ADSL in Ireland between Eircom and ODTR.



The general consensus with Ireland Internet users is that Eircom’s overpriced I-Stream service is just another example that Eircom are more interested in their pockets rather than the general online users who want a reasonably priced ADSL service with a high cap or none at all.

So the people over at IrelandOFFLine have set up a “Blackout” day which involves as many Irish internet users as possible not using their internet for a day to make Eircom realise that we are not standing for such a ridiculous ADSL service.



More information regarding this can be found at www.irelandoffline.net which is their message board. You will see the post on the very top regarding the Blackout I would appreciate if you would put this on your news page in order to get the message to more users that we are not standing for this.



Thanks for your time.

Shane Molloy.
"

Bard

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/22075.html

I've just re-read this.

It's short. It's not well written. It's factually inaccurate (re: cost of ADSL). It's patronising (the "we think they should have done this... but to each their own" bit)...

FFS... I'd have expected more from "el Reg".

They should have read www.adsl.ie - or at very least have talked to Elana - our PRO - or ANY IOFFL committee member before writing such an article based on us and our actions... it's only common sense (as well as common decency) - and, of course, good journalism to research any article thoroughly - especially when so many people would be reading it.

The only good things I can see out of this article are that the blackout gets publicity, and the mention of the .net address should bring this forum (and thus Boards.ie) more traffic and interest...

hmmm

Originally posted by Bard
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/22/22075.html

I've just re-read this.

It's short. It's not well written. It's factually inaccurate (re: cost of ADSL). It's patronising (the "we think they should have done this... but to each their own" bit)...

I don't see much wrong with it (other than the one figure quoted). They're not the mouthpiece of the com-it-tee and have a reputation of using their own interpretations and judgements in their reporting (judgemental as they may be). Not everyone agrees a blackout is the right way to go, and frankly I'd be annoyed if everyone was expected to toe the party line. I'd just be happy they're posting *anything* as it all increases exposure.

nahdoic

Originally posted by Bard
The only good things I can see out of this article are that the blackout gets publicity, and the mention of the .net address should bring this forum (and thus Boards.ie) more traffic and interest...

Now that we have the direct link, irelandoffline.net, to the board (which is a very good thing), I'd think if at all possible, there should be a permenate link back to the IrelandOffline.com site. So as you suggested here, we could get new comers hearing about and going to irelandoffline.net without even knowing IrelandOffline.com exists.

It would be great if you could get access to that 468x60 banner up there and put an Ireland Offline logo in it, but this may be pushing the very generous relationship IrelandOffline has with DeVore a little too far? But to get some permanent link, somewhere on the forum main page that links to irelandoffline.com would be great.

Maybe I make too many suggestions :P ... although you usually follow them up after dahamasta says he likes them

Bard

let me jump in before dahamsta then and say... GOOD IDEA...

not about the banner thing, though... that's one of Boards.ie's very few and very small ways of making money.

I had an announcement on the forum (they stay @ the top of the list, y'see) about the "3 URLS OF IRELANDOFFLINE" before... but took it down when we had hosting problems recently.

I'll write up another announcement - it'll have a mention of the URL of the main site in it.

Suggestions are always welcome -especially well thought out and helpful ones.

NeilF

Originally posted by Bard
It's short. It's not well written. It's factually inaccurate (re: cost of ADSL). It's patronising (the "we think they should have done this... but to each their own" bit)...

FFS... I'd have expected more from "el Reg".

While it was a disappointing piece to read which did not reflect us at all I cannot but help feeling that we could have done more, as an organisation, to be ready for press. I don't mean to patronise or offend anyone but the homepage and the news page on irelandoffline.com has nothing about the blackout and the only way to find out about the seminar is to download sound files!

We should have a section on the site "For the Press" with press releases (to include quotes or facts and figures) from us to counter anything anyone else says. If I go to Eircom.ie the last three Latest News items are about the postponement of I-Stream, de Mouse and the 13 hour ISDN bonus thing. We should have articles on the site to say we support the ODTR and it is Eircom who is at fault, asking to see the mouse's phone bill for doing all these things on-line and how 13 hours is useless.

We are dealing with busy journalists who probably get hundreds, if not thousands, of email in the week with press releases, stories, tips etc. While I would like to think good journalism guides every journo in the world I also think the ease with which a good story can be pulled together decides what gets attention and what doesn't. The forum is a treasure trove of information, facts, opinions and good laughs but we shouldn't be expecting the likes of The Reg to monitor the forum as we do. We need to find the juiciest chunks, put them on plate and then have the press 'round for dinner.

I'm not saying the committee aren't doing this already; perhaps they are sending frequent press releases to everyone but I haven't seen them. All I can say as someone looking in from the outside is that the website is us and I think it needs more frequent updates of news.

Originally posted by nahdoic
Now that we have the direct link, irelandoffline.net, to the board (which is a very good thing), I'd think if at all possible, there should be a permenate link back to the IrelandOffline.com site.

I think that all domains at our disposal should point to irelandoffline.com. The forum is only a click away. Those that use it frequently can bookmark the forum. Those who stumbled on us by typing in .net or whatever can first of all see what our goals and read about what we've achieved to date, and perhaps register their support, rather than see a public forum and think we're a boisterous lot. Changing the ad might help but the boards.ie logo will always be the most prominent thing on the page.