Eircom & Etain in Court Today...

dahamsta

From ENN:

Telecom regulator and Eircom go to court with dispute over pricing

The Irish Times reports that the High Court will hear the dispute between Eircom and the Telecoms regulator on Tuesday. Etain Doyle has directed the telecoms company to charge EUR13.53 per line to other operators for using its network, but Eircom says the price is too low and would not allow the company to recoup its initial investment.

adam

SkepticOne

Irish Times story here.

Eircom believes local factors such as the low population density in the Republic make the charge uneconomic, according to statements made by Eircom prior to taking the legal challenge.

What has low population density got to do with allowing OLOs to install equipment in exchanges?

dahamsta

I presume they're trying to say that as the incumbent and so the operator *required* to supply lines to anybody that requests them, the cost of building and maintaining the infrastructure is higher than that of a country with a higher population density.

This would be slightly more believable if Eircom were actually building and maintaining a network, instead of spending all their money on building and maintaining their brand. And of course defending their ridiculous ideas in the courts.

You're clutching at straws Eircom. You're going DOWN!

<evil laughter>

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
I presume they're trying to say that as the incumbent and so the operator *required* to supply lines to anybody that requests them, the cost of building and maintaining the infrastructure is higher than that of a country with a higher population density.

This would be slightly more believable if Eircom were actually building and maintaining a network, instead of spending all their money on building and maintaining their brand. And of course defending their ridiculous ideas in the courts.

Yes. It's not as if Eircom are going to be upgrading all its rural lines to ones capable of DSL. Even if they were to do so, is it down to OLOs (and their customers) to pay for Eircom's underinvestment?

gandalf

Well I think they have a cheek considering the network was built using tax payers money initially.

Its time that the government give Etain proper power to deal with Eircom as its apparent that they are doing all in their power to stop more realistic and fair internet access pricing into Ireland.

Now some may argue "well its in their interest etc" but the fact is low cost internet access is vital to the development of the Irish Economy if we want to be a E-commerce hub, the Government will eventually cop on to this (when we loose a sh!t load more jobs probably) and they will force it through with proper regulation. All Eircom are doing at the moment is getting the publics back up and when Telco competition engages properly in Ireland people will remember this and vote with their feet.

Gandalf.

dahamsta

Of course I neglected to mention that Eircom are of course overcharging Irish people at every turn. This latest price rise for "equipment rental" is just another example. I wonder to myself if the Regulator okayed this, and more importantly, if Eircom have ever made it clear to their customers that they have ended up paying hundreds of pounds for a piece of equipment probably worth less than a fiver.

On the subject of giving more power to the Regulator, I think it should be pointed out for clarity that it's not going to be an easy process, in fact it's going to take years - if, that is, we can get the government to realise the necessity. If the government tries to implement new legislation giving the ODTR more powers, Eircom will battle it to the end in the courts. Even more so with "Sir" Tory O'Really coming in.

adam

SkepticOne

The case is in Court 6 of the High Court under Justice Kelly for judicial review Tuesday 9th October.

Incidentally, while I was looking for this I found:

Chancery (2): 11th July 2001
Eircom Plc v Eirco Web Services Ltd.t/a Eirco (Prov.) (2d)

Strange. Didn't Eircom recently pay Eirco £100,000 for them to change their name? Ha Ha.

Shinji

Oh look, "shareholder value" versus "the interests of the people of Ireland".

Isn't privatisation wonderful?

dahamsta

The case is in Court 6 of the High Court under Justice Kelly for judicial review Tuesday 9th October.

Thanks SkepticOne. Where did you find that? I scoured the courts.ie website and I couldn't find it. [EDIT: Never mind, found it.]

Wish I Was There.

Strange. Didn't Eircom recently pay Eirco £100,000 for them to change their name? Ha Ha.

No, they offered them money to change their name, and Eirco refused (rightyly so too). There was a follow-up on ENN the other day, they've settled (see).

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
The case is in Court 6 of the High Court under Justice Kelly for judicial review Tuesday 9th October.

Thanks SkepticOne. Where did you find that? I scoured the courts.ie website and I couldn't find it.

Try here. I don't think the search facility works very well.

Wish I Was There.

I would turn up but I don't think the judge would allow laughing out loud.

kendragon

Considering that everyone who has had a phone has being paying high line rental (which i see as a form of double taxation seeing as how taxes paid for the lines in the first place) I dont think eircom has the right to have so much control over the countries network...
I mean most of the money that eircom has "poured ???" into the network has probably come from government and european grants which should be benifiting all of irelands infrastructure not just Eircom.

P.S. I'm not politically minded and this is just IMO so correct me if i'm wrong

dahamsta

I would turn up but I don't think the judge would allow laughing out loud.

How do you think he'd feel about a bigass sign with ROFL on it? The errorcom logo and "Ireland By The Bollocks"? How about Alfie Pain wearing a mask? Ray MacSherry with a bag marked "SWAG"? The possibilities are endless. Not that I'd condone that sort of thing...

adam

Couch Potato

Anybody know how it went ????

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by Couch Potato
Anybody know how it went ????

Considering its a judicial review, the outcome most likely will not be decided quickly. The parties will most likely make their case and then the Judge(s) will consider the matter and report their judgement at a new hearing date.

I presume this will happen in this case but I think they already have had previous appearances so maybe there will be an announcement today- who knows??

BTW Does neone know anything about the 1890 Friaco numbers or is this review of the price related to this??
Of course @ the seminar Pat Galvin and Soula said there would be no prob. having friaco in our Christmas Bag but we haven't heard a peep about the 1890 numbers yet:(

yellum

/me chants Etain Etain Etain !!!!!

Sock it to 'em baby !

ando

emm, what is this case about ? ADSL or LLU pricing ?

dahamsta

LLU. AFAIK it's in relation to pricing - everything else appears to be pretty much settled - specifically the *method* by which the Regulator arrived at pricing for LLU.

This was subsequent to her finding the Eircom Reference Offer unacceptable and lot of dithering and back-and-forth. Eventually she calculated a European average, and Eircom claim that the method is unacceptable.

So they're not challenging the prices per se, they seem to be trying to force her to recalculate (presumably in their favour). Or at least that's what I've picked up with the limited information available.

Eircom haven't gone to the courts on bitstream and/or DSL. Yet.

adam

P R O F A N I T Y

I have to agrea with that assesment, but i fall to see the grounds eircom have, unless they plain to challenge the odtr right to set a price(which would fail out right) i just dont see it. they say its unfear, maybe they are right, but its not the courts place to set prices its the odtr's. The Court may force her to rethink the price but i dont really think they can force her to change the price up or down. they may force eircom to disclose more information and therebye there would be grounds for a rethink.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Shinji
Oh look, "shareholder value" versus "the interests of the people of Ireland".

Isn't privatisation wonderful?

Absolutely ! and the crap bus service should be privatised NOW !

SkepticOne

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man


Absolutely ! and the crap bus service should be privatised NOW !

I don't believe that privatising on its own makes a damn bit of difference when it comes to providing better service to the public.

I was in London during the time that the bus service was privatised. Routes were allocated to different private companies. Pretty much the same. Better than here, of course, but that was the case before privatisation anyway.

neverhappen

From todays Irish Times...

.http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/finance/2001/1010/fin11.htm

Looks like we are going to be waiting a while yet for LLU...

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Eircom has been asked by the telecommunications regulator, Ms Etain Doyle, to inform three other operators of its High Court proceedings against her over the price other operators pay to access Eircom's local network. In court yesterday, Mr Anthony Collins, for Eircom, told Mr Justice Kelly his side would, within seven days, inform Esat, Kokomo and Nevada of the action. Those parties then have the option of applying to be notice parties to the proceedings.

Eircom initiated its legal proceedings in May and yesterday Mr Justice Kelly issued directions about the exchange of legal documents. The case will be listed in early December for further directions. The proceedings relate to a dispute over a process known as "unbundling the local loop" which would enable other operators to offer services directly to consumers over the last portion of the incumbent operator's local copper telephone network. The regulator has directed Eircom to impose a charge of €13.53 (£10.66) per line. Eircom argues this is insufficient to allow it recoup its investment in network infrastructure

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(edited to put in link to story and the comment stating what we all knew already)