ITV on Sky Digital - something's happening

Mossy Monk

no one can see anything on these frequencies, FTA box or digibox. nothing is being transmitted. does NTL's uplink station take the day off for Irish bank holidays or something

pbirney

Posted to uk.tech.tv.sky earlier today:

I have just had it confirmed that ITV will start official tests via Sky
Digital this coming Thursday 1st November and not today as previously thought.
This is due to contractual problems which states that ITV are not allowed to
test before the 1st of the month. I understand the tests to commence at
lunchtime on this day.
These are the channels that will be testing along with the test labels which
need to be stored.

10832H:

1:1 CARLTON / LWT
1:2 CENTRAL WEST
1:3 HTV WALES
1:4 HTV WEST
1:5 WESTCOUNTRY SOUTH

10891H:

2:1 ANGLIA
2:2 BORDER ENGLAND
2:3 BORDER SCOTLAND
2:4 GRANADA
2:5 MERIDIAN
2:6 TYNE TEES
2:7 YORKSHIRE

10906V:

3:1 GRAMPIAN
3:2 SCOTTISH
3:3 ULSTER
3:4 CHANNEL

ITV2 will NOT be joining SKY at this stage.


Ed
www.rediffusion-cablevision.co.uk

Charles Slane

Sorry to Four Eyes if the thread name is getting irritating.

When I started it a couple of weeks ago the "Castle" tests were starting and "... - something's happening" seemed appropriate and honest (as opposed to just saying "ITV on Sky", because it isn't yet).

Since then things have been happening (the NTL tests with ITV EPG info), but maybe not as quickly as we'd all like.

I guess we're all getting a little impatient to see actual ITV programmes through our digiboxes.

Meanwhile, from the Digital Spy Forum (I got into it for a couple of minutes) comes this info, which the poster (Simon) says was posted to uk.tech.tv.sky earlier today. I couldn't find the site myself, so I can't personally vouch for it, but here's what Simon posted as being the latest info -

"I have just had it confirmed that ITV will start official tests via Sky Digital this coming Thursday 1st November and not today as previously thought. This is due to contractual problems which states that ITV are not allowed to test before the 1st of the month. I understand the tests to commence at lunchtime on this day. These are the channels that will be testing along with the test labels which need to be stored.

10832H:

1:1 CARLTON / LWT
1:2 CENTRAL WEST
1:3 HTV WALES
1:4 HTV WEST
1:5 WESTCOUNTRY SOUTH

10891H:

2:1 ANGLIA
2:2 BORDER ENGLAND
2:3 BORDER SCOTLAND
2:4 GRANADA
2:5 MERIDIAN
2:6 TYNE TEES
2:7 YORKSHIRE

10906V:

3:1 GRAMPIAN
3:2 SCOTTISH
3:3 ULSTER
3:4 CHANNEL

ITV2 will NOT be joining SKY at this stage.

Ed"

So now it looks like Thursday (although it won't stop me checking), and the bad news that ITV2 won't be available is a drag (or is it just me who really wants ITV2 ? Nobody else ever seems to mention it

Charles Slane

Woops !! Sorry for the crossover. Great minds .. and all that.

DMC

Originally posted by Charles Slane
10832H: 1:1 CARLTON / LWT 1:2 CENTRAL WEST 1:3 HTV WALES 1:4 HTV WEST 1:5 WESTCOUNTRY SOUTH

10891H: 2:1 ANGLIA 2:2 BORDER ENGLAND 2:3 BORDER SCOTLAND 2:4 GRANADA 2:5 MERIDIAN 2:6 TYNE TEES 2:7 YORKSHIRE

10906V: 3:1 GRAMPIAN 3:2 SCOTTISH 3:3 ULSTER 3:4 CHANNEL

So each transponder, as suspected, follows the path of whoever owns that slice of the ITV network. Channels on 10832 H are Carlton owned (except, of course LWT), channels on 10891 H are owned by Granada, and the Independents of ITV, (SMG, UTV and Channel) are on the last transponder.

Some dual regions are still missing, such as Central East, and the split of Meridian, but noted is a franchise, which to my mind, is not defined as a dual region, Westcountry! I wonder what the Westcountry South business is all about.....

Can't wait to see it all!

Four eyes

no problem Charles - you're a mine of information! It was frustrating, but hopefully - Thursday -eh?
Cheers

Charles-i'd like to repeat the sentiments-your Sherlock Holmes jobs on this topic are the biz!
I have ITV 2 -its a similar concept to BBC Choice, in that it mainly repeats recent showings of ITV 1 programmes plus some extra's.
But then theres Letterman which I like and for those that don't like omnibus or video'ing-theres a repeat of that nights Corrie.
You probably know this already.
ITV 2 is popular in this house at the moment as when theres Soccer on HTV-Granny gets to see Corrie at 7.30
mm

Charles Slane

Thanks guys.

There's an interesting report in today's Media Guardian, where Sky's Chief Executive (Tony Ball) asks the government not to bail out ITV Digital. He also accuses ITV of "running scared" in not supplying it's channels to Sky Digital for fear of losing viewers.

The full report is here -

http://media.guardian.co.uk/broadcast/story/0,7493,583408,00.html

It certainly looks as if reports that ITV and Sky were coming to an agreement regarding encryption are on shaky ground. Their relationship seems to be far from friendly.

Which could mean that ITV will be available free to air.

On the Digital Spy forum there have been many posts regarding how this may affect transmission of movies. With speculation that many movies will not go out on ITV on Sky Digital (as well as how it will affect sports coverage).

It may not trouble ITV too much, considering the fact that their sports coverage has been performing poorly in the ratings, but their main ratings winners (Coronation Street etc.) would not be affected by the same rights issues.

Hmmm, a very interesting article indeed!
Theres commercial sense in what that Sky chief is saying.However which is more unsightly- an aerial or a minidish???
Sky are arguing the future of digital is them and them alone- thats not right in my opinion.
ITV have made a mess of their digital project-yes- and it's a fallacy to suggest delaying their appearance on Sky is going to help their(ITV Digital) lot.
When Irish DTT gets going, it should't need an un sightly out door aerial at all,or a dish, and providing it give the customer what it wants,it should take off.
no Footie/movie blackouts either.
I hope then that Sky and ITV keep rowing so we'll continue to have all regions fta on Sky when they start.
mm

Charles Slane

I found the source for the list of channels on each transponder (shown in an earlier post).

It's at -

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=9rmkgi6egm%40enews1.newsguy.com&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Duk.tech.tv.sky

It's strange that the test channels all went up to .9 while according to the list 10832H only goes to 1.5, 10891H only to 2.7 and 10906V to 3.4

What are the other test channels for ?

There seems to be only four channels on the UTV transponder. Do less channels mean less compression and therefore a better picture ?

There seems to be only four channels on the UTV transponder. Do less channels mean less compression and therefore a better picture ?

Less compression does mean better picture-but no doubt, if ITV/UTV are paying for the transponder-Commercial reality will mean they will lease any spare capacity:(
I have noticed, the picture quality on BBC NEWS 24 on the BBC Card is pixelated-whilst Sky news is perfect! so Is that transponder packed?
mm

Leesider

All the ITV test channels are on again (6pm).
The 'William Street' background is visible, and if you press 'i', you can check the local regional programmes (UTV Live at 6, North Tonight etc). Hopefully we'll have pictures tomorrow!

Charles Slane

Cool !!

How many test channels are broadcasting ?

Are all three transponders on ?

Can you tell which regions are on (by the EPG info) ?

Four eyes

Stored them this time!

I don't see any tests under the 10.906V transponder this time though.

Hopefully - pictures tomorrow - but we were here before weren't we!

bkehoe

10832 doesn't work here....The others do; screenshot: http://209.15.121.207/itvsky.jpg


Brendan

Four eyes

Sorry, you're right - it's 10.832 thats not showing anything..

I'm pretty sure though that it was showing something a week ago, if I remember all 3 transponders were showing 9 tests each, while now just 2 are showing 9 each..

byte

Just a thought, but would William Road be near where NTL uplinks are? Anyways, hopefully I will see UTV in crystal clear picture for first time in ages

Peter

10832H does have tests on it but unlike the other transponders they have no ID so they wont appear on the digibox. They come up as unnamed on my Echo. 3000. 5 tests currently present, all with EPG info.

Peter

Charles Slane

That's interesting Peter, can you tell from the EPG info (later, when regional programmes come on) which channels are testing that are invisible to the digibox ?

Why are some visible and others invisible ? It doesn't make sense.

spanner_head

Hi,

I just tried tuning in what was posted above but for some reason it did not work. I think it's my fault when I tried to tune them in. So if possible can someone tell me how to do it?
What do I put into the following fields!

Frequency:
Polarisation:
Symbol Rate:
FEC:

Thanking you,
spanner_head

Hi Charles-I have 10832 stored from last friday still-They are all showing the William road testcard with a selection of small squares on the top -a bit like a rubix cube except no colours-a cube is hi-lighted to indicate which test number you are watching.
There is no channel info and no programme synopsis available when you press the I button.
10906 and 10891 are showing channel programe now and next and a full desciption of whats on if you press i
Tomorrow's looking good
mm

Charles Slane

spanner_head,

the details are -

Frequency: 10.832
Polarisation: H
Symbol Rate: 22000
FEC: 5/6

Frequency: 10.891
Polarisation: H
Symbol Rate: 22000
FEC: 5/6


Frequency: 10.906
Polarisation: V
Symbol Rate: 22000
FEC: 5/6

Chucky

Excellent news! I cant wait to have UTV.

One question - do we have to add the channel ourselves? or will sky eventually add it to say the 'Entertainment' category?
What happens when you add it?

thats actually 3 q's but anyway

Chucky,
for the moment-they are only testing so you will have to add the channels by going into your sevices menu-then into the set up from there and then select add channels
fill in the first frequency,polarisation,fec and symbol rate as shown by Charles and then just select find channels-then store.
continue procedure for the othe two frequencies
10832 wasn't working at all this morning-it may be now will check at lunch time.

will sky eventually add it to say the 'Entertainment' category?

UTV have declared their interest in being on the Irish EPG-it means more viewers and advertising revenue in the Republic for them-so they will most likely take the first oppurtunity to be there-but its all speculation at the mo.
While ITV remains free to air you will always have access to the regional ITV channels if you store them as above-but you will only have UTV on your EPG-ITV and Sky don't appear to be on the best of terms at the minute so when they go on the EPG-who knows?
mm

Charles Slane

Unfortunately I'm in work right now, and they haven't seen fit to provide a Sky Digital system (yet).

Is there anyone out there with access to their system during the day ?

If so, let us know if and when the tests start showing some programmes (although I'm sure you will without any prompting from me).

Thanks.

roy

Charles, its still only the test card(12.30pm)

bkehoe

Still test card at 13:04

Four eyes

ARRRRGGGGHHH!

In most of my stored channels when selected i'm getting

"Channel description not available"
"Call to upgrade your subscription to receive this channel"

Curses!

Charles Slane

Does this mean the channels are encrypted ???

roy

The channels on the UTV transponder are encrypted. On the UTV channel it gives information about the game network and an 0044 number to upgrade your package, but the programme information still works. The channels on the other transponder just have a blue screen.

This is really bad news.:(

originally posted bt: foureyes

ARRRRGGGGHHH!

Yes its looking bad folks-I am getting the exact same message:mad:
However when I have the BBC Card in-The message changes to include Sky's 0870... number-call to upgrade!

What this is telling me folks is that the story being put out by ITV and Sky regarding them not getting on is all a heap of Balderdash!

They are testing Sky's conditional access system here!

So we have some tangible evidence ( if we want to go to Court:D ) that they're playing with us:mad:
If this is the case-it looks like, that after getting all of our hopes up-those with Irish Sky Sub's may only have UTV, and if you take your card out-no ITV at all:mad:
Charles Slane-if you get the time , no doubt you'll do a bit of Sherlock on this-good mam!
mm

bkehoe

madman, does your 1-1 call itself Channel Health in the FYI box? 1-5 calls itself E4. 1-2 Discovery Health. 3-2 is Sky Travel, and so on......

Brendan

Charles Slane

This doesn't sound good at all.

If a deal has been done with Sky for encryption, there's nothing to say we'll even get UTV. I know they want to be available in the south, but everything seems to be happening at the last minute, so who's to say that they've gotten around to making a deal with Sky for encryption isssues, EPG placement etc.

The best we can hope for at the moment is that a deal hasn't been reached for encryption between ITV and Sky, and that the current encryption is just part of the testing process.

Although somehow I doubt it ........

Originally posted by bkehoe:

madman, does your 1-1 call itself Channel Health in the FYI box? 1-5 calls itself E4. 1-2 Discovery Health. 3-2 is Sky Travel, and so on......

Yes Brendan thats whats happening here as well....
It just underlines what I think is happening although I hope I'm wrong ie;UTV only folks, and whats worse,if we really want to be annoyed-maybe not untill RTE and TV3 etc get on.
I say that because Granada, part owners of TV3 might not want UTV on the Irish EPG untill TV3 are there-And as we've read fro other posts here-TV3 and RTE appear to be in some kind of joint negotiations.
Whilst Granada and UTV are under the ITV umberella-They are Competitors here via TV3-But Granada would have much more Swing in ITV,who are conducting these negotiations..........

Charles Slane

Madman,

Is your BBC card even showing a test for the region it's from ? (i.e. if it's BBC England card, can you see the Carlton test ?)

bkehoe

Update from uk.tech.tv.sky

I work for an ITV franchise and it currently looks like conditional access
*will* be in used on the ITV regions as negociations between Sky and ITV are
continuing towards an agreed price.

Channel 103 will likely contain your itv region chosen and locked by
postcode.

Brendan

Peter

Not all of the channels are encrypted, 10891H (the Granadas) are still free and NOTHING has come on here yet. It's still just the testcards so I very much doubt if anything is on the encrypted ones yet either. I'm using the Echostar to see them as the signal is tricking the digibox into thinking they're scrambled when they are still FTA, thats why you see only a blue screen on these while the others have an encryted message when using the digibox. I think the same thing is being done on 11662H where the 4 red hot ch's have been free now for well over a week when using the Echostar. I will post back if anything comes on the free ITV's.

Peter

originally posted by Charles Slane:

Is your BBC card even showing a test for the region it's from ? (i.e. if it's BBC England card, can you see the Carlton test ?)

will check this for you shortly- however as at Lunchtime I could not get the 10832 channels on my panasonic-I suspect it could be a signal prioblem? as I used the old Chorus cable run for that-its receiving 10906 and 891 fine though strangely
Could Tony if you are there answer this?
failing that I will swap boxes and bring the panny out to the expensive cable hooke to the pace in the living room(Irish Sky).
The things ya do-for experiments!!!

Originally posted by bkehoe:
____________________________________________________
UK.TECH tv update:
I work for an ITV franchise and it currently looks like conditional access
*will* be in used on the ITV regions as negociations between Sky and ITV are
continuing towards an agreed price.

Channel 103 will likely contain your itv region chosen and locked by
postcode.
____________________________________________________

Aha! Its looks like our suspicions from earlier in the day were correct and it's UTV folks- but maybe not untill RTE gets planning sorted out as per the theories going in that other thread
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34364
mm

Tony

Agreed Peter, I ahve checked with my echostar and they are definitely using encryption

Thanks Tony

Originally posted by Peter
Not all of the channels are encrypted, 10891H (the Granadas) are still free and NOTHING has come on here yet. It's still just the testcards so I very much doubt if anything is on the encrypted ones yet either. I'm using the Echostar to see them as the signal is tricking the digibox into thinking they're scrambled when they are still FTA, thats why you see only a blue screen on these while the others have an encryted message when using the digibox. I think the same thing is being done on 11662H where the 4 red hot ch's have been free now for well over a week when using the Echostar. I will post back if anything comes on the free ITV's.

Peter

Four eyes

Question for you all. Before the BBC channels launched on Sky were test pictures visible for a while beforehand?

I wonder if ITV will hold out now 'til Nov. 27th, I reckon it'll DEFINATELY be only UTV that will be available. I wish we knew one way or the other because all this trial and error stuff is getting very annoying.

I really can't see much of a breakthrough for the next couple of weeks at this stage

Charles Slane

From looking through the British Forums, it seems that they're getting exactly the same as us - blue screens, EPG info etc.

At least this means that the tests are not just being encrypted for Irish Sky customers.

So maybe there's hope yet.

his_dudeness

Ah, okay, this is my first post on Boards.ie but anyway, i've been watchin this thread and am really interested in this subject but am confused on a few things:

What is DigitalSpy?
Do ye have another card aswell as the SKY card or what is the BBC card ya talk bout?

Thats all i can think of for now and hope you can give me some awnsers

Thanks a mill!

The panasonic wont find the channels on 832 at all-nor indeed any other channels that it should , untill this morning when it got 10906, thats why I thought it was a cable prob there

And it is a cable problem as when I swapped the machines I got the 9 tests on 832-so I guess Chorus cable, like everything else Chorus is Sh**e!
The first four tests on 832 have EPG info etc on them complete with the phone 0870... to upgrade
This is with a bbc card-despite the card I have no access to pictures on any channel

The first four channels on 10832 are calling themselves R1 1-1,R3 1-2,R16,1-3,R4,1-4,R6 1-5 and those are the oneswith the EPG and i information.
I presume the R is for region, but what is the significance of the number?
This is all getting a bit academic now as it looks like what we have is all we're going to get

On my Irish box/card
I get the same messaages except the phone number is prefixed by 00 44
I note also that if you take out the card-you get the select programme info-but the message "Insert your Card"

SO We can conclude from that, that the Conditional access tests are working well and that these ITV channels Know whether you are watching with an Irish Card
This is significant, because if it is put into practice when ITV finally join Sky Digital-it means, that we here in ROI will not have access to UTV untill they get agree ment to get on it-and as I've said before( and hopefully I am wrong )-for Commercial reasons , Granada could throw flies into the ointment ; ie insist-with it's weight within the ITV organisation, that UTV do not get on the Irish EPG untill TV3 are there unless of course you have a beeb card
mm

Originally posted by Charles slane:

From looking through the British Forums, it seems that they're getting exactly the same as us - blue screens, EPG info etc.

I doubt it Charles,
The conditional access tests are working... so well, in fact-I can confirm, as per my last post, that theres an 0870... number on the info with a bbc card whilst with the Irish Card, it tells you to ring the same number but with the 00 44 prefix
This suggests that Sky at ITV's behest, can and probably will restrict access on a postcode basis-leaving Irish Sky viewers hoping that Granada have no influence on whether UTV get on an Irish EPG.
If RTE and TV3 are involved in joint negotiations to appear on the Irish EPG and Granada stick their oar in-then we'll all be waiting untill March or so before we see UTV.
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
methinks that We may all forget about seeing the regions FTA now:( Again hopefully I'm wrong!!!
mm

bkehoe

There are still test cards on 10.891...when not using a digibox.. I tuned it in on a PC DVB card to see, and it is not encrypted, but the signal must be sent in some way to make it invisible to digiboxes.

Mossy Monk

it really would be a sad state of affairs if we were dumped with UTV only. i hate that channel

DMC

Originally posted by Mossy Monk
it really would be a sad state of affairs if we were dumped with UTV only. i hate that channel

Pin-sharp Julian though..... hold on, yer right :rolleyes:

DMC

Originally posted by his_dudeness
Ah, okay, this is my first post on Boards.ie but anyway, i've been watchin this thread and am really interested in this subject but am confused on a few things:

What is DigitalSpy?
Do ye have another card aswell as the SKY card or what is the BBC card ya talk bout?

Thats all i can think of for now and hope you can give me some awnsers

Thanks a mill!

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk is an English based web forum, which often crashes because too many look at it.

Almost all digiboxes in the ROI only have one card, a standard Sky card for viewing all channels on your Sky subscription. As you may know, we can't get BBC channel or Ch4 or CH5 on ROI digiboxes, so you need what is known as a BBC card, as the BBC issue them. They can be hard to come by, ie you need to have a relative in the UK with a TV licence who can get you a card and need the card activated in the UK in your digibox, or you could pick on a used digibox in the UK on a auction site.
Some peoples experiences on this forum differ from what I have said above, but that is the general gist.

HTH,

Damien.

bkehoe

Looking like we may still get all the regions! This from the same person I quoted before who works for an ITV franchise.

Unfortunately we do not have the rights to broadcast in the Republic Of Ireland
on Channel 103.

But perhaps Sky will put us on there, otherwise we should be available on
another channel in the EPG with the other ITV regions.

Do you presently have a Channel 103 on your EPG ? If not then it is unlikely
you will see one appear.

Brendan

Charles Slane

I have nothing interesting to add, I just wanted to break the 100 replies mark.

It's probably a first.