Learning C++, is VC++ a good idea?

Lyconix

I started learning C++ recently, and up until now I've been programming for DOS (to start with) using a Borland C++ compiler, but would it be a better idea to use VC++ 6 instead? I've heard some horror stories on VC++ being un-necessarily complicated and a graveyard for beginners, but I'd like to hear some more opinions since its functionality seems appealing...

SCRUB

its not really VC++ that you neend to worry aboot , its if your doing MFC applications/ windows applications that you if a beginner will have problems with.

I still think its a good idea to look at some basic ones and look at the as they arnt impossible by a long shot.

you can still do your normal dos like programming in VC++ just make a new project and select a "windows 32 console application". For me the VC++ env. is excellent , with MSDN at hand and a brilliant debugger its ultimatly essential.

so I say use VC++ for your programming and sneek a peek at a tutorial MFC site and see if you understand things and if not try

Lyconix

Alright then, thanks...

Whats the difference between VC++ 6 Standard and VC++ 6 Learning Edition? I've heard that Learning Edition is cheaper but I'm having trouble finding it...

Villiros

Learning edition is supposed to be used for learning Basicly, it is same as standard edition, but it doesn't have all those cool compiler options like optimisation, or static MFC code linking, or profiling. And it also states in license, that you cannot distribute your code (actually, you cannot even compile it in distributable form).
So, it is good enough, if all you want is some messing around.

Lyconix

OUCH - I didn't realise Learning Edition had all those strings attached... I was expecting Standard Edition but with more tutorials!

I guess I'll be going for Standard Edition then...

Lemming

I might recommend not delving into VC++/MFC until you've got a decent grasp on C++ itself.

Make sure you know your basics, OO theory, pointers, double-indirection(aka. linked lists, aka, pointers to pointers), ADTs (Advanved Data Types, eg. struct, stacks, queues), and such. That's been my experience (and watching others attempts) with VC++/MFC
Of course I could be completely wrong (not an uncommon thingy )

Typedef

Why not just use
Dev-C++ if you are looking for a first Class IDE?

phaxx

That's a good point Lemming, I'm trying to get my head around VC++/MFC and it's not too easy... I'm picking up more and more as I go along though. Any recommendations for a C++ basics book? Preferably something I can download, these books cost far too much, £60+? feck off...

Lemming

Originally posted by phaxx
Any recommendations for a C++ basics book? Preferably something I can download, these books cost far too much, £60+? feck off...

Ermm .. downloadables ... let me get back to you on that one. I'll have to go rooting through my HD to find ****.

As for physical books, the one I've found to be very good is the Deitel & Deitel "C++ How to Program" 2nd/3rd Ed. It's just under £40 in H&H I do believe. It's got a LOT of **** in it, and tons of examples.

BIGGG f*ck-off expensive books aside, there's one book that is WELL worth paying for. It's a small reference book for C/C++ functions and keywords, etc. called "C/C++ Programmers Reference" by Osborne books. It's £15 or something like that

Lyconix

Aren't you having any luck with that 21 days C++ book, Phaxx?

phaxx

Having, er, enough, luck with it... I lost interest after the fifth day or so, I mean it's just typing out huge chunks of code from the book (pdf format, of course) and such.. I skimmed over all the pages though, and am taking a closer look at the sockets aspect of MFC now. It's still good for example code and things, but it wasn't anywhere as useful as I expected it to be. I tend to learn things as I go along, mainly looking at other people's code, taking sections and arsing about with it until it does what I want it to.

Lemming

Just to give you an idea of the contents of that Deitel & Deitel book, and to maybe compare it to the "21 Days" book here goes ...

Chpt.1 Introduction to computing, blah blah
Chpt.2 Control Structures (if/else/etc)
Chpt.3 Functions
Chpt.4 Arrays
Chpt.5 Pointers & Strings
Chpt.6 Classes & Data Abstraction (Starting of OO)
Chpt.7 Classes: part 2
Chpt.8 Operator Overloading
Chpt.9 Inheritance
Chpt.10 Virtual Functions & Polymorphism
Chpt.11 C++ Stream I/O
Chpt.12 Templates (GOD I HATE THESE!!! hehe )
Chpt.13 Exception Handling
Chpt.14 File Processing
Chpt.15 Data Structures (Linked lists, stacks, etc)
Chpt.16 Bits, Characters, Strings, & Structures
Chpt.17 The Preprocessor
Chpt.18 C Legacy Code Topics
Chpt.19 Class string & String Stream Processing
Chpt.20 Standard Template Library (STL)
Chpt.21 ANSI/ISO C++ Standard Language Additions

various Appendix

As you can see .. a LOT of content - the book weighs in at aover 1092 pages

Lyconix

My main problem with the 21 days book is that it focuses a little too heavily on the GUI and not enough on the code...

Lemming

Originally posted by Lyconix
My main problem with the 21 days book is that it focuses a little too heavily on the GUI and not enough on the code...

Well, you could do a lot worse than get the book above. It's got a lot of theory, but a lot of code examples to back it up. Most of the code examples extend throughout the chapter they're in, so you get to see progression, and where things are added as they are mentioned in the text.

But I'll have a root around my HD for downloaded stuff or links to for ye!

Lyconix

OK great Lemming, try your best

satchmo

Try Thinking in C++. I don't know what it's like - I've had it for a good while but never got around to actually looking through it. Worth a try though.

DeadBankClerk

i have bought
Core C++, A Software Engineering Approach" - Victor Shtern.
isbn 0-13-085729-7

it assumes that you have some intelligence.
im only on chapter 3 atm, but i can tell it is a very good book.
it is very focused on object oriented design, types, and code optimisation.

the last programming book i read was "Samms teach yourslef java 2 in 21 days". It did some stuff with swing but it was a load of cack really.

after explaining a feature of the code core c++ explains some common errors, and how to write concise code. the author is a firm believer in precise, elegant, well structured code, which aims to be easy to maintain by a 3rd party programmer.

next time i am in a night club i will try to impress les filles with my precise and elegant c++

Lemming

Originally posted by DeadBankClerk
next time i am in a night club i will try to impress les filles with my precise and elegant c++

bool look(sighted)
{
if(sighted == FALSE)
look(sighted) ;
else
return TRUE ;
}

void approach(distance, les_fille)
{
for(int i = 0; i < distance; i++)
goto les_fille ;
}

string checkStatus(company, les_fille)
{
if(company == "BIGGGG Rugby player Type")
return "Abort like the road-runner on steroids!" ;
else
if(company == "Ravening horde of other les_filles")
return "Only if you're brave or know what you're doing!" ;
else
return "Go!" ;
}

bool attempt_to_woo_with_elegant_code(les_fille)
{
string response ;

cout >> "if(hello) then kiss_me" ;

switch(response)
{
case "**** off":
return FALSE ;
break ;

case "Laughs @ You":
return FALSE ;
break ;

case "Looks @ you, then calls BIG b/f not visible before":
return FALSE ; //(incidentally .. run like f*ck!!!)
break ;

case "Wooed":
return TRUE ;
break ;
}
}

void main()
{
char *les_fille ;
char *company ;
int distance = 0 ;
string company ;
string proceed ;
bool sighted = FALSE ;
bool outcome = FALSE ;

while(sighted != TRUE)
sighted = look(sighted) ;

if(sighted == TRUE)
{
distance = sizeof(dancefloor) ;
approach(distance, les_fille) ;
proceed = checkStatus(company, les_fille) ;

if(proceed != "Go!")
{
if(proceed == "Only if you're brave or know what you're doing!")
prepare_backup_plan_to_avoid_public_humiliation() ;
else
abort() ;
}
outcome = attempt_to_woo_with_elegant_code(les_fille) ;
if(outcome != FALSE)
cout >> "Wayyhay!!" ;
else
look(sighted) ;
}
}


NB.1 (yes .. I know this is rather badly written, but I've more important things to be doing in work)

NB.2 (AND YES!!! I do realise there's errors everywhere ... see NB.1)

Villiros

Originally posted by phaxx
Preferably something I can download, these books cost far too much, £60+? feck off...

Try to find something here: hoganbooks.com/freebook/webbooks.html

There's also a free library on www.informit.com, though books there are not downloadable