IMPORTANT: Just The Facts, Ma'am...

dahamsta

Hi folks,

Ok, I need to put together a comprehensive list of facts about the problems with Internet access and comms in Ireland. I need this in a hurry, so you just have today to help me out. I can't explain why I need them at the moment, but I will stress that it's important. I also have some rules for this particular thread: The facts should be simple, so you need to pretend you're talking to a complete moron (not that hard, considering). They should be accurate, so you need to avoid supposition and rumour. And they should be hard-hitting, so you should try to shock and stun, without being nasty. They should be one-liners, with a short (2-3 sentences max) explanation where necessary. Don't witter, and if you have to quote previous posts to clarify or extend, keep it to a minimum. If you break the rules, I'll edit or delete your ass. Here's what I have so far:

Ireland is in breach of European law.

The EU issued a directive mandating LLU in EU states 11 months ago. At this stage, Ireland's non-compliance with this directive can no longer be considered "breathing space", but has to be taken as a breach of European law.

Eircom has an illegal monopoly on retail fixed lines in Ireland.

With reference to the above, and as a direct result of the above, Eircom still retains its monopoly in this market sector. This monopoly is now illegal.

Eircom is anti-competitive.

At least one substantially-funded business, Genesis Technologies 2000, has been shuttered as a direct result of Eircom's consistent stalling on LLU. Also, the wholesale DSL prices announced by Eircom are not in-line with costs or their own ISP division retail prices. Also, Eircom are currently litigating against the ODTR re: LLU; and will almost certainly litigate on the bitstream issue.

The Competition Authority is avoiding the issue.

There is no doubt in anyone's mind that Eircom is anti-competitive. The fact that the Competition Authority has not interceded is scandalous.

The ODTR is under-powered.

The ODTR does not have the necessary powers to deal with Eircom and the OLO's. The Communications Bill has now been put back to next year, even though it is of the utmost importance to the competitiveness and viability of Ireland on the world stage.

Ireland has no nationally-available flat-rate Internet access products available.

Esat's Surf NoLimits product is no longer available. NTL's flat-rate product is geographically limited.

Ireland has no true flat-rate Internet products.

Only two products exist, both of which are limited to off-peak and/or weekends.

Ireland has little or no broadband coverage.

There are no DSL products currently available. Cable Internet access is only available in Waterford. Wireless access is limited to a few urban areas. Satellite coverage is one-way only. The only real options available in Ireland are 56k and ISDN, neither of which are broadband, and both of which are horrendously expensive.

Cable companies are not competitive.

The cable companies were given geographic monopolies by the Telecommunications Regulator. There has been little or no innovation in the cable market. The Regulator has just given both NTL and Chorus leave to raise their prices, although neither company has improved either customer service or commitment to innovation.

"Free" is not free.

Free Internet access is a myth.

Tony O'Reilly's involvement with the Valentia Consortium is unacceptable.

Tony O'Reilly's position as a director of Chorus and Independant Newspapers and Media makes him an unviable and wholly unacceptable director of Eircom. His involvement with Chorus is detrimental to competition. His involvement with media companies is detrimental to accurate coverage (ref: Disney V Napster).

Chorus has consistently delayed rollout of its PowerNet product.
Eircom has been supplying HDSL as leased lines for at least five years (?a decade?).
Students and citizens in general are unable to use the Internet to its maximum potential.
Irish businesses are competitively weakened in European and international markets.
Eircom's suggested pricing for its i-Stream ADSL product is not viable or cost-oriented.

Thanks in advance for your help,
adam

timod

Well done Adam, thats a fairly decent list.

It might be worth mentioning that connection prices have gone up by 20% in recent months also...

i.e. 5p for 5 minutes, 6p for 6 minutes...

It used to be 48p for and hour, now it's 60p. Basically any call over 15minutes is 20% more expensive.

So to put it in a dummy proof statement like you asked:

Dialup Access Costs have increased by 20% this year.

It used to be 12 pence for 15 minutes connected, now it is 15 pence. The majority of people saty online for more than 15 minutes - hence a major increase for the consumer.

Regards,

Tim

dahamsta

Good point Tim, thanks. You're wittering though...

Another one:

AOL doesn't offer a retail Internet access product in Ireland.

I think that says an awful lot about the current situation in Ireland.

adam

seamus

eircom are in breach of advertising laws stating that download speeds of 56Kb/s on dial-up, and 64Kb/s or 128Kb/s on their two separate ISDN packages respectively, are possible through their lines, when these speeds physically cannot be achieved. ?

dahamsta

56k can't be achieved on analog POTS, but AFAIK 64k can be achieved on digital. Hudson might be able to clarify this.

adam

JaneDoe

The issue is not that Ireland is in breach of European law becuase in theory the loop is unbundled....but no loops have been unbundled in practice. Those that know say it is unbundled but no-one has asked for it. That not Europe's or Ireland inc's fault, more a sign of the telecoms market downturn.

hudson806

Originally posted by dahamsta
56k can't be achieved on analog POTS, but AFAIK 64k can be achieved on digital. Hudson might be able to clarify this.

adam

You're right, but what are you going to do? You can't really sue ISPs that quote '56k' dialup access or manufacturers that sell '56k' modems, can you?

I'd be more inclined to go after the con-artists who claim to offer 'free' Internet access or call ISDN broadband, as these comments are patently bullsh1t

MyPerfectCousin

There are some info bites here:

http://www.irelandoffline.com/Article.asp?id=020601


John

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
Cable companies are not competitive.

The cable companies were given geographic monopolies by the Telecommunications Regulator. There has been little or no innovation in the cable market. The Regulator has just given both NTL and Chorus leave to raise their prices, although neither company has improved either customer service or commitment to innovation.[/b]

When NTL bought cable link, the people were told that condititions would be attached relating to broadband Internet and telephony to encourage competition with Eircom. [O Rourke said this in a speech] Instead, requirements placed on NTL by the ODTR were limited to television distribution. To satisfy these conditions, NTL are now rolling out a limited non-interactive digitial TV service that does not compete with Eircom.

"Free" is not free.

Free Internet access is a myth.

It might be a good idea to quote the per hour daytime cost of dual ISDN. I'm pushed for time at the moment but I'm sure someone could come up with the figures easily.

Tony O'Reilly's involvement with the Valentia Consortium is unacceptable.

Tony O'Reilly's position as a director of Chorus and Independant Newspapers and Media makes him an unviable and wholly unacceptable director of Eircom. His involvement with Chorus is detrimental to competition. His involvement with media companies is detrimental to accurate coverage (ref: Disney V Napster).

Chorus has consistently delayed rollout of its PowerNet product.
Eircom has been supplying HDSL as leased lines for at least five years (?a decade?).

In addition, changes in the tax code to facilitate the transfer of the employees share of Eircom. Valentia are now blocking the release of this information under the Freedom of Information Act.

<Edit: Speech relating to cablelink sale here.

Announcing the decision, Minister O' Rourke said: "The sale must entail a commitment by the purchaser to upgrade the Cablelink network to a state of the art multi-media platform with third party access. This platform will enable Cablelink to become an important provider of a range of advanced multi-media services including digital television, internet, telephony, and value added services such as data services, messaging, video on demand, video conferencing and interactive services such as home shopping and home banking."

No such commitments were written in to NTL's licence requirements. Recently NTL were awarded a 33% increase in basic TV charges. Certain conditions were attached, but again, these did not relate to Internet or any form of competition with Eircom.

dahamsta

The issue is not that Ireland is in breach of European law becuase in theory the loop is unbundled....but no loops have been unbundled in practice. Those that know say it is unbundled but no-one has asked for it. That not Europe's or Ireland inc's fault, more a sign of the telecoms market downturn.

I was under the impression that Nevada tele had requested loops?

Good stuff folks, keep it coming...

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by JaneDoe
The issue is not that Ireland is in breach of European law becuase in theory the loop is unbundled....but no loops have been unbundled in practice. Those that know say it is unbundled but no-one has asked for it. That not Europe's or Ireland inc's fault, more a sign of the telecoms market downturn.

The relative lack of interest is also due to a) and absurdly high initial price which drove away most of the OLO interest. b) The final price depending on a court case between Eircom and the ODTR over LLU charges. The ODTR were forced to evaluate LLU charges independently. These charges turned out to be around the European average. Eircom are now disputing these charges in the courts. This price uncertainty is driving OLO interest in LLU away. An earlier court case over an ODTR decision involving the mobile company Orange went on for two years.

These factors, in addition to the tech downturn, and the small sise of the Irish market account for the relative lack of interest in LLU.

Q_Ball

I don't know if this helps but you could point out that

The Communication bill has been put down to the bottom of the oireachtas report.

The government doesn't seem to want to care really.

Not sure thats any use to ya

timod

Originally posted by dahamsta
Good point Tim, thanks. You're wittering though...

It just drives me so mad. I start to shake when I see that mouse.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by dahamsta
Ireland has no nationally-available flat-rate Internet access products available.

Esat's Surf NoLimits product is no longer available. NTL's flat-rate product is geographically limited.

No wholesale flat-rate PSTN product is available from Eircom.

Ireland has little or no broadband coverage.

There are no DSL products currently available. Cable Internet access is only available in Waterford. Wireless access is limited to a few urban areas. Satellite coverage is one-way only. The only real options available in Ireland are 56k and ISDN, neither of which are broadband, and both of which are horrendously expensive.

Eircom have intensively marketed ISDN as "hi-speed" without clearly indicating that it is a form of ISDN. By today's standard, ISDN is not a high speed product. In other countries "high speed" normally refers to broadband. A recent survey of small business revealed that although 70% believed they had broadband, in fact the bulk of these had ISDN.

<edit: Link to survey here. >

Rags

It might be useful to compare internet costs with our closest neighbour the UK , for example in the Uk they can get 24/7 internet access for only £14.99 now, if in Ireland we stayed on 24/7 it would cost over a £1000 with Eircom, do the math its scary!

Not sure if thats any use to ya.


James

Moriarty

Eircom refuses to provide a basic quality of net access. Many telephone lines are unable to support more than 28kb connections due to lack of maintanance, or DACS boxes being placed on the line due to Eircoms lack of infrastructural investment.

ISDN, which should be a basic service along the lines of call-waiting etc in my opinion, is completelty unavailable to a large majority of people in Ireland.


My 2 pence

sceptre

Originally posted by Moriarty
Eircom refuses to provide a basic quality of net access. Many telephone lines are unable to support more than 28kb connections due to lack of maintanance, or DACS boxes being placed on the line due to Eircoms lack of infrastructural investment.

Definitely should be added, plus of course a brief description of what a DACS box is and what it substitutes for.

Delphi91

Originally posted by dahamsta
56k can't be achieved on analog POTS, but AFAIK 64k can be achieved on digital. Hudson might be able to clarify this.
adam

Yes, when I connect to the net at work through an ISDN line, I get 64k every time.

Mike