RTE on Sky Digital Soon??

Leesider

Today's Sunday Business Post claims that RTE will be on Sky Digital 'early next year', and discussions with RTE have been ongoing for several months.
Interesting........

chernobyl

who cares..seriously.

byte

That IS interesting though I won't hold my breath. If they do arrive on Sky Digital I may start watching RTÉ again:rolleyes:

Mossy Monk

i really do hope they join. there are some good programmes being shown by them but i only hear about them the next day. to have RTÉ with EPG information would be fantastic and the reception isn't the best

luke warrington

hi it does appear that rte network 2 will be on sky for ireland viewers at the beginning of 2002 .
RTE has talked with sky and these channels may be aviable to ni viewrs as a family channel choice the rest of uk will not recieve it.

Mossy Monk

where did you hear this

luke warrington

i heard it on digispy website and another forum apparently talks with sky/rte started weeks ago due to them not have a lot of viewers and due to the lack of dtt in ireland.
Also rte are keen to break into the uk with theier rte news channel soon to launch .
A spokeperson at sky told me that rte will be on sky if they can come up with agreement .
bUT WE ALL KNOW RTE NEVER WANTED TO GO ON SKY but it look like it has to due to it bascially running out of cash for their dtt project.
Plus more people are switching to sky and rte are worried that dtt will not take off,as in uk itv digital is falling apart they worried that this will happen in ireland as sky don't wanna be on dtt in ireland.

bmg

sky sales rep for ireland told me 3 weeks ago that talks were at an advanced stage with rte

Mossy Monk

so they may be on Sky by Christmas. fingers crossed. any word on TG4

luke warrington

hi i looked at the rumours page on here today ,the business post has quoted that rte will be on sky in january 2002 it be on 101 and 102 in ireland and 214 215 in northern ireland but will not be abvaiable to the rest of uk.
As tg4 is owned by rte i guess in time it be on sky but not yet as rte wanna see viewing figures on sy first.
It was rumoured months ago though that tv3 will be on sky in january 2002.

rymus

well in all fairness RTE dont have a whole lot of choice. Their digital plans have been scrapped and unless they move to Sky Digital, the whole company will go tits up. Its a sad situation where the national broadcaster gets like this.. who knows, maybe the government will bail them out like they did with Aer Lingus?

Charles Slane

I'd love this to be true, if only because the EPG on Sky has made me very lazy and I can't be bothered checking the newspapers or analogue text for TV listings anymore.

But to be honest, I'm a bit sceptical about it.

There have been rumours before about RTE joining Sky Digital, but admittedly none were ever backed up by a national newspaper. However I think it's a little odd that there have been no reports in any papers or even a statement from RTE since the Sunday Business Post article was printed.

Hopefully we'll see something soon from RTE to support the article.

By the way Luke says "the business post has quoted that rte will be on sky in january 2002 it be on 101 and 102 in ireland and 214 215 in northern ireland but will not be abvaiable to the rest of uk".

I have the article here and there is no mention of January 2002 or of EPG placement in either the south or the north of Ireland. Did I miss something ? It says exactly as Leesider stated at the start of the thread i.e. -"Today's Sunday Business Post claims that RTE will be on Sky Digital 'early next year', and discussions with RTE have been ongoing for several months" And that's all.

byte

Well if RTÉ goes onto Dsat, then I can safely assume it will be 101 and 102. TV3 were rumoured months ago to be on it along with RTÉ sharing costs because it couldn't finance going alone. It would be on 103. TG4, being largely owned by RTÉ, will probably also go up and be on 104. That only leaves 105 before SkyOne. Which some rumours suggest will be UTV whereas others suggest it to be RTÉs news channel. Have to wait another while and see, I guess:rolleyes:

psychotic mouse

Folks,

I can confirm that RTE will be on Sky early next year, although probably not until late Feb early March. It's still not definite whether RTE1 will be live, but Net 2 & TG4 will be available. The RTE1 link is in the melting pot with a TV3 deal & if that gets the go ahead we're probably looking at March to May for that part.

The service will be available in IE & NI, but not GB

Sorry I can't be more specific or revealing, but I'll keep you posted when I know more.

Charles Slane

My e-mail to TV3 -

"In last Sundays edition of the Sunday Business Post it was stated that RTE will be joining the Sky Digital platform in early 2002.

Has TV3 got any plans to launch on the Sky Digital platform ?

Charles Slane"

Their reply -

"We have no immediate plans.
Regards,
TV3"

It could be just a line they're giving out.

I'll let you know when I get responses from RTE and TG4

byte

Originally posted by Charles Slane
My e-mail to TV3 -

"In last Sundays edition of the Sunday Business Post it was stated that RTE will be joining the Sky Digital platform in early 2002.

Has TV3 got any plans to launch on the Sky Digital platform ?

Charles Slane"

Their reply -

"We have no immediate plans.
Regards,
TV3"

It could be just a line they're giving out.

I'll let you know when I get responses from RTE and TG4

This is the exact response I got from TV3 the times I emailed them. It must be an automated response. Not very nice Hopefully we will be better informed before end of year.

Will look forward to yer responses CharlesSlane!:)

Chucky

Imagine......watching late late show, and during the adds switching to Challenge TV. superb.

I certainly hope RTE join and reading this thread has pleased me very much.

But can ye explai to me what that Tara channel is? is it a british version of an irish channel or something. I am not able to watch it anyway.

Charles Slane

Here's the reply I got from TG4 (very positive)

"A chara,

Following on your query to my colleague Linda Ní Ghríofa, I can confirm that TG4 is a party to the discussions between RTÉ and BSkyB. Like RTÉ we are optimistic about a mutually satisfactory outcome.

Pádhraic Ó Ciardha,
Leascheannasaí"

There's also an interesting article in todays Irish Independent quoting a statement from RTE -

"The Executive Board has decided that: core services of two TV channels and four radio channels should continue; we safeguard future developments by maintaining a presence in digital media; we retain a continuing commitment to music; there be a radical reduction in planned capital expenditure; assets are not sold off to meet current deficits; our cost base is addressed and recast in a sustainable way to secure the future."

The interesting part is "we safeguard future developments by maintaining a presence in digital media". Given the fact that Terrestrial Digital is currently on hold, I would assume he's referring to Sky Digital.

The full article is here -

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=618225&issue_id=6184

I still haven't received a reply from RTE, but I'll let you know when I do.

originally posted by charles slane:

Following on your query to my colleague Linda Ní Ghríofa, I can confirm that TG4 is a party to the discussions between RTÉ and BSkyB. Like RTÉ we are optimistic about a mutually satisfactory outcome. Following on your query to my colleague Linda Ní Ghríofa, I can confirm that TG4 is a party to the discussions between RTÉ and BSkyB. Like RTÉ we are optimistic about a mutually satisfactory outcome.

well at last a hint from someone connected to RTE who hasn't been got to by the"shush-be quiet brigade"

The interesting part is "we safeguard future developments by maintaining a presence in digital media". Given the fact that Terrestrial Digital is currently on hold, I would assume he's referring to Sky Digital.

Not necessarily Charles-afaik RTE's digital cut backs refer to their proposed new channels only and not to the proposed Irish dtt.
After all the Country's transmission network is going into private hands and Private companies are currently tendering for the Irish DTT license.
I am only going on info in the public domain here as I have no involvement in Broadcasting- but I'm sure if you mail Ethain Doyle or the ODTR they will provide the heads up.
mm

Charles Slane

I got this reply from RTE.


"Thank you for your e-mail

I understand RTE is in discussions with SKY to examine all options for the carriage of RTE television and radio programmes.

Yours sincerely

Julie Hayde
Broadcasting Developments"

So at least they're "in discussions".

Marconi

I've heard that even if RTE strike a deal with SKY and decide to go on satellite, planning permission will have to be sought for the installation of a large dish in Donnybrook to carry the uplinks. This could take at least 3 months - so don't hold your breath about seeing them on air this side of Christmas. Also, with the current financial difficulties at the station, a project like this could easily be postponed.

Mind you, it's not IF, but rather, WHEN?.......

rlogue

Well, if Julie Hayde is saying that, it must be looking good for RTÉ to go onto Sky.

Unfortunately for us in GB, it is not at all likely that we will get to see RTÉ One and Network Two as Sports rights and U.S. series rights would be for Ireland only. Obviously Tara TV would fill that gap.

I would guess that RTÉ One and Network 2 will be available in NI from Family Pack upwards but not at all in GB. The RTÉ News channel would probably be FTA so it's likely we'll see that in GB though.

On the radio front, I personally would like to get Lyric FM and Raidio na Gaeltachta on Sky - at least then we wouldn't get RnaG instead of Radio 1 on Saturday and Sunday mornings!

Richard

DMC

Originally posted by Charles Slane
"I understand RTE is in discussions with SKY to examine all options for the carriage of RTE television and radio programmes."

Oh this is welcome news. It means something is stirring, and in any event, these discussions only lead to a favourable outcome.

Let's remind ourselves; RTÉ is losing badly terms of audience share in Sky Digital homes, and noticed it by pulling Tara from Irish screens. It is possible that you could link this to recent events, like the current market woes that RTÉ find themselves in. Putting RTÉ on Sky Digital, with RTÉ's finances, makes perfect sense. While RTÉ is available on all existing platforms in multichannel homes, RTE on Sky Digital is a logical extension of how Irish homes can see RTÉ Television. Getting it on as many screens, that is the name of the game; they must have seen what has happened to ITV's audience share in the UK, and become increasingly worried that this would happen here.

With this development, it could effectively kill off DTTV here, but RTÉ would not be too worried, as they would not be in charge of the DTTV infrastructure, so therefore, there isn't much of an opportunity to make any money from it.

Damien.

originally posted by DamoDMC:

With this development, it could effectively kill off DTTV here, but RTÉ would not be too worried, as they would not be in charge of the DTTV infrastructure, so therefore, there isn't much of an opportunity to make any money from it.

It wont help it Damien- but it won't kill it ,just like Eircell didn't kill off Esat digifone.The simplicity involved ie plug in and play,indoor aerial,NO PHONE LINE NEEDED etc will be major selling points.

Peter

Regarding Tara, If for some reason somebody was really determined to see it, it is still available FTA for multi-sat viewers on Intelsat at 34W 11158V 3150 3/4.
Peter

Tony

Originally posted by madman
originally posted by DamoDMC:


It wont help it Damien- but it won't kill it ,just like Eircell didn't kill off Esat digifone.The simplicity involved ie plug in and play,indoor aerial,NO PHONE LINE NEEDED etc will be major selling points.

Its not exactly plug and play , ask any aerial guy in the Uk and they will tell you some stories about non plug and play installations.

Regards Tony

DMC

Originally posted by madman


It wont help it Damien- but it won't kill it ,just like Eircell didn't kill off Esat digifone.The simplicity involved ie plug in and play,indoor aerial,NO PHONE LINE NEEDED etc will be major selling points.

Yes, but the mobile phone technologies they provide are exactly the same. Also, Digifone came into a monopoly's market. They had to price themselves into the market, and they also carved themselves a niche in signing up new customers, rather than directly aiming themselves at robbing Eircell's existing customer base.

I see where you are coming from but to compare how Eircell dealt with Digifone and how Sky is doing here is not comparing like with like. It's all different with TV. Different channels, different services etc... For most people that I talk to about Digital TV for the first time, I often compare it to a Windows PC and MAC; Each of them have their good points, but Windows is more widely used, because it can do more. Exactly the same principle with Sky and DTTV and Cable. All have their strong points, but Sky's system is better all round. History is full of these conflicts; its easier to compare with Windows vs Mac, Beta vs. VHS, the original Sky vs. BSB, and its exactly the same with On/ITV Digital and Sky Digital. One is becoming dominant, and we know which one it is.

Damien.

danielle

Thank you for your query.

Owing to RTE's serious financial deficit there are no plans to expand its television services.

Yours sincerely

Julie Hayde
Broadcasting Developments

Originally posted by Tony:

Its not exactly plug and play , ask any aerial guy in the Uk and they will tell you some stories about non plug and play installations.

Tony, I am basing the Plug in and play notion on the premise that, Irish Dtt will be high power ie:erp 50 kw ( and according to the ODTR must be set up as such to enable reception via indoor aerials )compared to the UK where powers are only one or two kw -Thats whats dogged ITV digital and is the reason for their low take up
As a result no plug in and play there unless you have a good outdoor aerial or are near enough to the tx- and of course there are lots of No plug in and play stories in the Uk fro installers!.
If theres no plug in and play with Irish Dtt on 50kw-yes it will be dead in the water-but I suspect there will be.
mm

sorry about this going off topic but:
originally posted by DamoDMC:

Yes, but the mobile phone technologies they provide are exactly the same. Also, Digifone came into a monopoly's market. They had to price themselves into the market, and they also carved themselves a niche in signing up new customers, rather than directly aiming themselves at robbing Eircell's existing customer base.

I would suggest its different technologies- but from a marketing point of view, its the same principal.
Digifone took lots of customers from Eircell and got their own as well-Thats what an Irish Dtt has to do.

Also, Digifone came into a monopoly's market. They had to price themselves into the market,

And this is no different- Of course an Irish service will also have to price itself into the market.
I agree Damo Sky's service is excelent but very expensive
Not everyone will want to pay through the roof for endless numbers of channels.

History is full of these conflicts; its easier to compare with Windows vs Mac, Beta vs. VHS, the original Sky vs. BSB, and its exactly the same with On/ITV Digital and Sky Digital. One is becoming dominant, and we know which one it is.

Yes history, tells us where improvements were made , and what won out.
But as I said in the last post-ITV digitals problems are caused in the main by reception problems due to low powers,resulting in giving them a bad name, wrecking them financially and giving no end of boosts to Sky digital.
If frequencies have been agreed for Dtt in Ireland at high ERp's-that problem doesn't arise.
mm

Tony

Fair point but I suspect that higher power may not get rid of the problems encountered in Uk. Multpath reception (ghosting) causes serious problems for digital reception and Indoor aerials with poor rejection may not work in all cases. having said that it is clear that Irish DTT will be technically superior to its UK counterpart.

Regards Tony

Originally posted by madman
Originally posted by Tony:
Tony, I am basing the Plug in and play notion on the premise that, Irish Dtt will be high power ie:erp 50 kw ( and according to the ODTR must be set up as such to enable reception via indoor aerials )compared to the UK where powers are only one or two kw -Thats whats dogged ITV digital and is the reason for their low take up
As a result no plug in and play there unless you have a good outdoor aerial or are near enough to the tx- and of course there are lots of No plug in and play stories in the Uk fro installers!.
If theres no plug in and play with Irish Dtt on 50kw-yes it will be dead in the water-but I suspect there will be.
mm

DMC

Originally posted by madman


I would suggest its different technologies- but from a marketing point of view, its the same principal.
Digifone took lots of customers from Eircell and got their own as well-Thats what an Irish Dtt has to do.

Yes, it is how it is pitched at the public initially, and you have to feel that the ON Digital branding was a complete failure, and trying to suggest that they are now building its reputation on the ITV brand alone is laughable, to say the least! Digifone had some strong brand awareness when launched.

And this is no different- Of course an Irish service will also have to price itself into the market.
I agree Damo Sky's service is excelent but very expensive
Not everyone will want to pay through the roof for endless numbers of channels.

Agreed, I still want to see a successful DTTV system here, but will Sky's success here have a detrimental impact on it?

Yes history, tells us where improvements were made , and what won out.
But as I said in the last post-ITV digitals problems are caused in the main by reception problems due to low powers,resulting in giving them a bad name, wrecking them financially and giving no end of boosts to Sky digital.
If frequencies have been agreed for Dtt in Ireland at high ERp's-that problem doesn't arise.
mm

Yes, that is the main lesson to be learned for DTTV here. Have all the transmitters on as full an ERP as possible FROM DAY ONE. That have been the two things that have stopped ITV Digital being a success, Bad coverage, and bad publicity. You could also throw in bad managment...

Back on topic, shall we? :cool:

Damien.

Marconi

Originally posted by Tony
Multpath reception (ghosting) causes serious problems for digital reception and Indoor aerials with poor rejection may not work in all cases.

I thought that the main advantage in digital terrestrial was its ability to produce a perfect picture under difficult conditions such as multipath?....
I think I know what you're getting at - some of the indoor aerials on the market today have virtually no directivity or gain and come with built-in preamps - they'll pick up crap from every direction. You just can't beat the good oul' Yagi types - not the nicest looking thing to have sitting on top of your new Sony 32" w/s, mind you!
One potential problem with indoor DTTV reception is picture lock-up due to electrical interference from noisy thermostats etc. Also, indoor DTTV reception will really only be reliable in the larger urban areas of Ireland such as Dublin, Cork, Limerick, etc, as this is where most of the high power will be beamed. It is still, on the face of it, a more reliable system than in the UK. The rural areas will generally have to stick to the outdoor aerials, though a lot of people will get away with having them in the attic.

originally posted by DamoDMC:

Yes, that is the main lesson to be learned for DTTV here. Have all the transmitters on as full an ERP as possible FROM DAY ONE. That have been the two things that have stopped ITV Digital being a success, Bad coverage, and bad publicity. You could also throw in bad managment... Yes, that is the main lesson to be learned for DTTV here. Have all the transmitters on as full an ERP as possible FROM DAY ONE. That have been the two things that have stopped ITV Digital being a success, Bad coverage, and bad publicity. You could also throw in bad managment...

I agree with you on all fronts Damo,haven't the time now to paste on more quotes.
I too hope that DTT here Learns from the mistakes in the UK and I suspect that it will-thats the hope I was expressing in the points I made.
Back on topic-I think Marconi posted over on Dig terrestial , that he thought TV3's digital output was connected by cable from their HQ to Donny brook for onward transmission to Transmitters around the country.
If thats the case are they going to be relying on an uplink from RTE to get on Sky? and have the same delay to go on?
mm

rlogue

Originally posted by madman
originally posted by DamoDMC:


It wont help it Damien- but it won't kill it ,just like Eircell didn't kill off Esat digifone.The simplicity involved ie plug in and play,indoor aerial,NO PHONE LINE NEEDED etc will be major selling points.

I certainly think there's room for DTTV in the Irish market. It is going to have to be able to undercut Sky price wise however if it is to succeed. The Swedish DTTV service is in even more of a mess than the UK service. Unsubsidised boxes meant that DTTV boxes were being sold for £400 and upwards. Add that to a limited choice of channels and guess what? A surefire recipe for disaster.

I would think that many people would choose an indoor aerial with a set top box that gives good quality BBC, ITV, 4 & 5 rather than a dish.

Of course there are plenty who want satellite - I do - but there are others who don't and rely atm on Chorus!

However, Irish DTTV may yet be stillborn if the Government and others don't act quickly and get the fugging service on the air soon!

There's nothing like a good dose of Irish bureacracy is there?? :rolleyes:

byte

Back on topic-I think Marconi posted over on Dig terrestial , that he thought TV3's digital output was connected by cable from their HQ to Donny brook for onward transmission to Transmitters around the country.
If thats the case are they going to be relying on an uplink from RTE to get on Sky? and have the same delay to go on?
mm

Yes it is true that TV3 is connected digitally to Donnybrook. And it was mentioned in these forums months ago that if RTÉ were to uplink to Dsat, then TV3 would uplink with them as they haven't the finances to go alone.

Mentioned earlier was that RTÉ would need an expensive uplink station for Dsat. I don't think they do as they already have a big uplink satellite from the days when Eurovision was in Ireland. It was used to uplink to rest of Europe. I did hear that it was the largest uplink satellite dish in Europe.

chernobyl

Uplink hardware is not that expensive (reatively speaking) but the more you want in broadcast quality the bigger the price.

Using VSAT hardware you could broadcast on Satellite (if you know the username:password) for the Transponders but your tranmission would be crappy, but interesting.


any1 know the details for "red hot euro".....

hb100

but doesn't tara uplink from Dublin ?

rlogue

Originally posted by hb100
but doesn't tara uplink from Dublin ?

Tara don't uplink directly to Sky - Tara uplink to the Intelsat satellite which carries their FTA signal. Sky in turn pick up the Intelsat signal and it is this which is relayed on SkyDigital.

Maybe in the future they'll uplink directly but right now they don't.

hb100

so couldn't rte do the same, and tara still has to use an uplink to whatever satellite it is using.

chernobyl

Originally posted by rlogue


Tara don't uplink directly to Sky - Tara uplink to the Intelsat satellite which carries their FTA signal. Sky in turn pick up the Intelsat signal

maybe this is what your saying..i dunno

Sky just recieve the Tara channel in their london offices (via Intel) and uplink it from their Tara offices in london and there is approx 2sec delay between watch the channel on sky or Intelsat.

cableskeptic

Originally posted by Tony
Fair point but I suspect that higher power may not get rid of the problems encountered in Uk. Multpath reception (ghosting) causes serious problems for digital reception and Indoor aerials with poor rejection may not work in all cases. having said that it is clear that Irish DTT will be technically superior to its UK counterpart.

Regards Tony

Madman and Marconi have given good answers to Tony already but there is another advantage that Irish DTT will have over the UK: Ireland is mandated to use the DVB-T 8k (as opposed to the the 2k system used in the UK). Spreading the data across many more carriers will make the system much more robust than the UK and therefore will perform better against impulse noise (electrical interference from hosehold equipment and car ignition systems). Ideal for indoor reception conditions.

There is also the concept of Single Frequency Network (SFN) configuration of DVB-T transmitters where multi-path is used contructively to improve the signal. The UK do not use this idea as yet and I believe Ireland will benefit from this idea (especially in urban areas like Dublin and Cork).

These advantages combined with high powers will give Ireland a superior system than the UK and to answer another point a lot has been learned from the UK experience which will be put to good use in the Irish context.

Charles Slane

Having sent this e-mail to RTE last week -


"In last Sundays edition of the Sunday Business Post it was stated that RTEwill be joining the Sky Digital platform in early 2002.

Is there any truth in this ?"


And gotten a reply from Julie Hayde last week (previously posted), I got this second reply today -

"Charles

RTE are currently in negotiations with SKY Digital with a view to reaching agreement to have RTE 1 and Network 2 carries on their platform. Todate, no agreement has been reached.

Thank you for your interest in the RTE services.

Regards
Tom McCarthy
Head of Viewer Information and Technical Publicity"

smoke.me.a.kipper

if rte did go on dsat, would they bring tg4 with them??

Mossy Monk

i would hope so unless it is up to TG4 to carry out their own negotiations

Pat Gleeson

So far as I'm aware, TG 4 is controlled by RTE, so it would go up on DSat at the same time.
Also, an agreement is in place for TG 4 to be carried on all platforms in N.Ireland. A little piece of the Good Friday Agreement mentions this.

NorthDown

At the risk of being pursued by RTE on copyright I'm not going to copy it but on the RTE Aertel pages they deny the rumours about going on Digital.(Page 2 of 4 in the cycle) (The pages are avilable on line- Richard Logue has a link in his links page). How long has that info. been there - is it recent or has it been put up since the Sunday Business Post report?

Hi North down,
That info regarding RTE and Sky on aertels pages has been there a while -could be back as far as mid summer.
The situation has changed drastically since then, and you can take it that statement no longer applies!
RTE aren't famous for keeping the more obscure parts of their aertel pages updated.
I thought myself at the time I first heard their denials, that it was politics on their part.
NOW changing economic circumstances is brining a new reality to this.
You are very likely to have them available in Northern Ireland.
mm

rlogue

TG4 are definitely looking good for DSat.

This from Pádhraic Ó Ciardha of TG4;

Dear Richard,

Thanks for your interest. We are indeed hoping to get access to a
satellite platform and are party to discussions aimed at bringing this
about. (No names to protect the guilty).

You will have guessed that we would dearly love to be available to viewers
outside Ireland and satellite and cable are the obvious platforms to enable
this to happen. Notwithstanding that, the issue of rights is not as
simple as we would like and there may be some thorny questions to address.
(For instance, the GAA sells tv rights to its games in two domains:
national rights and international rights. RTÉ/TG4 have just secured a three
year deal on the national rights and Setanta Sport have secured a three year
deal to the international rights. Each of us has paid a very substantial
fee for the exclusive rights to our respective packages. I suspect that
Setanta would take a view on RTÉ or TG4's coverage of GAA being freely
available to UK subscibers.

We are working on it

Keep in touch agus go raibh maith agat.

Pádhraic Ó Ciardha,
Leascheannasaí

Obviously the dead hand of Setanta and the GAA rights is going to slow things up. However the precendence is there for GAA matches to be blocked to GB addresses on BBC 2 NI so maybe TG4 could take advantage of this?

The Godfather

OK the sound and picture quality will be good but it's still RTE!!!! Hopefully it will start a new trend and they will start producing so decent programs!!

Marconi

Originally posted by The Godfather
OK the sound and picture quality will be good but it's still RTE!!!! Hopefully it will start a new trend and they will start producing so decent programs!!

Now tell me, WHAT decent programmes do SKY produce themselves?? (and leave sport out of it)