Building FAQ

Fand

I'm making up a simple FAQ, home PC builders for the use of. Like to help supply both questions and answers? Some sample questions:

Which way does the red stripe face on the IDE cable (a) at the board end, (b) at the hard drive or CD-ROM end?

Ditto for the floppy cable.

Which end does the twisty bit go on the floppy cable?

I've got a 1GHz Athlon processor - how do I know what motherboard to get?

Ditto with 1.3GHz Intel processor.

(obviously the answer here isn't "board X" but "a board with X specs")

Which way does the red wire go in power cables (a) on hdd and CD-ROM, (b) on floppy drive

What plugs in where to all those fecky little LED thingies?

What's the difference between SDRAM, RAM, DDR, RDRAM, EDO RAM, etc, etc, and how do I know which to get? (for this, I'd point people to the excellent guide at the Kingstone site - but a short explanation would be nice too, as given by azezil and bonky on the current memory thread at http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=307044#post307044

What are those little brass thingies for? (standoffs) and how do I use them? Should I use them all?

Does it make any difference which slot you plug PCI cards into?

What on earth are IRQ numbers, and how do I deal with them?

How do I partition a drive? and why should I? Do I need to format a drive? What's fdisk for? Should I use it?

Any good answers to these welcome - I'm writing answers at the moment, but good help welcome. And any new questions welcome too.

logic1

Originally posted by Fand
I'm making up a simple FAQ, home PC builders for the use of. Like to help supply both questions and answers? Some sample questions:


I've got a 1GHz Athlon processor - how do I know what motherboard to get?

Ditto with 1.3GHz Intel processor.
(obviously the answer here isn't "board X" but "a board with X specs")

I think your pigeon holing the FAQ a bit here. Why choose two specific processors?

Why not first have a question defining the difference between diff processor architectures and pointing out some common examples for socket 370, slota, socketa processors then go on to explain what board you would need for the diff types of processors and not for specific processors.

What plugs in where to all those fecky little LED thingies?

Again this is usually specific to each diff type of motherboard. There will always be a certain numbert of standard LEDs but they rarely follow a standard format on every board.

.logic.

Kegser

As logic pointed out in his usual "I'm superior than you" way, even though clearly he's not, there's no point in an FAQ with those kind of specific questions.

A simple guide to different processor types, RAM, connectors etc. would be a much better idea in my humble opinion, as there really aren't that many basics to cover... it doesn't need to go into technical details... only what's practical to whoever is actually building a machine.

(And I was only joking Nially before you get violent and such.)

logic1

Originally posted by Kegser
As logic pointed out in his usual "I'm superior than you" way, even though clearly he's not
....

(And I was only joking Nially before you get violent and such.)

So what you're trying to say is that I really am superior Kev? aww thanks

.logic.

po0k

The bit about the cabl;es is important though.

I'll take a few pix and put em up some time, can we put up a floating post? like the ones in Cs boards, tech boards etc.?


As you look at the IDE (it can a hdd or CD/DVD-Rom) drive the red stripe faces you. The power connector is closer to you, relative to the IDE cable.

The floppy is the opposite, the red Stripe is away from you.

The twist needs to be at the end, just before the conenctor for the first floppy drive. It is rather superfluous nowadays as in most new PCs there's only going to be one Floppy and so a floppy cable withj one connector is supplied.
the twist is there to distinguish the master floppy from the Slave, in a dual floppy config, back when 5meg hard drive cost as much as a small carribean island
The master goes at the end. Applies to both IDE and floppy drives.

I hope to christ this is the last time I have to type this.....

JustHalf

Fand, perhaps you shouldn't start writing an FAQ for computer hardware until you know a bit more about computer hardware?

logic1

Originally posted by JustHalf
Fand, perhaps you shouldn't start writing an FAQ for computer hardware until you know a bit more about computer hardware?

I couldn't agree more. I could try.. but I would not be succesful.

.logic.

Fand

Why not first have a question defining the difference between diff processor architectures and pointing out some common examples for socket 370, slota, socketa processors then go on to explain what board you would need for the diff types of processors and not for specific processors.

OK - write it, please!



Fand, perhaps you shouldn't start writing an FAQ for computer hardware until you know a bit more about computer hardware?

Again, write it for me, please

The red stripes: surely what you mean, Syx, is that the red stripe goes next to the red power wire on the hard drive, whereas it goes the opposite side from the red wire on the floppy drive? And the red wire always goes to the centre of any drive?

beaver

Lads,

On both IDE and floppy cables the red stripe points toward the power connector.

Honest to gawds, leave it to someone who knows more about the subject (I'm sure all of this stuff has been written up time and time again). It might be a learning excercise to write out what you know and ask yourself questions about the topic, but if you publish this kinda stuff as a guide to building a PC you're only going to confuse and annoy people.

Besides, if you're going to produce documentation like this, you need an angle. How is it going to be more useful than what's there already. A lot of the questions you propose are answered in specific motherboard manuals, for example. What are you providing that someone else hasn't already? Nothing. Less in fact - possibly a negative amount if you include erroneous or unclear information.

In any case I'd say you're spreading yourself too thinly - all very well dealing with PC assembly - but then you start recommending what boards, etc. to use with various components? Too broad.

Gerry

Just to clear one point up, the red wire signifies pin one on a connector, so you should connect it obviously enough to pin one on the drive or interface.

Also, syxpak, it is confusing to say that the end connector is always master. This is only the case if you use cable select, i.e. both drives are jumpered cable select. It is much more consistent and flexible to jumper each drive master or slave respectively.


I can see where you are coming from beaver, however I do think that some sort of FAQ is a good idea. It would eliminate a lot of pointless posts, if some basic things were posted up permanently.
There are a lot of non-specific things which are of help in building any pc, and I don't see any problem with posting specific advice either.

I would be prepared to moderate the thread, and delete posts which are giving misinformation. My whole aim on this board is to eliminate misinformation, I hate the stuff, lately I have been content to sit back a bit, because sometimes the sheer amount of misinformation is depressing but I would put more effort in for this. A thread full of helpful information, without the misleading, confusing and sometimes downright wrong information which unfortunately sometimes appears on this board would be good. Depends if people want it or not though.

logic1

Originally posted by Fand


OK - write it, please!

No.

.logic.

Fand

Gerry - Great offer, and a permanent FAQ, well expressed, with the very basic stuff, is exactly what I'm after.

Beaver - Of course you're correct - the red stripe always faces the connector. This is *exactly* why I'm asking for help with an FAQ, because it will express things more clearly.

But Beaver, remember that the *power supply* on a floppy drive has the red wire at the far end. Everyone who starts to build is told: "Put the red stripe next to the red wire" - it's just different on floppies.

beaver

Guess I was just lucky then - got told to point it to the power connector

Anyway, sure, an ongoing FAQ on the boards could be cool. I'll contribute what I can.

-Ross

Fand

I'm getting cross now. This is typical of the Irish attitude that existed before Tiggy the Celtic Tiger - and now it's coming back: someone says "think I'll do something about this gap in the market" and immediately a bunch of people spring up, divided into two groups, one saying "What a lousy idea", the other saying "You're the wrong person to do it anyway".

I'm the right person to do this for two reasons:

a) I'm willing to *do* it, not just sneer at the idea

b) I am typical of the kind of person who needs to know the answers to the questions above and others like them (well, I know them, but I know what people *want* to know).

It may surprise and grieve certain posters to these boards, but there are a few people in existence whose recreational reading isn't motherboard manuals.

Gerry, email me, please.

beaver

Fand,

It's pretty clear from your posts to the boards that you are not a hardware expect; no offence. Therefore you are not the right person to write documentation on such an issue.

It's commendable that you want to contribute, absolutely, but now when it is suggested that it could be more of a collaborative effort, you get cross. Why?

Additionally, it's f**king ignorant and stupid to suppose that you won't have to read your motherboard manual if you intend to build your own PC. If you (not you personally) can't hack that, leave it to professionals, or at least assembly line workers in Dell, etc. who in fact know what they're doing.

Before this thread degrades into a big arguement, here is an opportunity to create an intelligent thread which would deal with your proposed idea. Erroneous notions would be put right, because, as the adage goes, two heads are better than one. Furthermore, an ongoing debate would give more scope for people who want to know things to pose their questions.

I'll ignore your generalisations about the people of Ireland and merely say that in my time, I personally have written documentation about the areas which I am interested and knowledgable in.

-Ross

Trojan

Originally posted by beaver
leave it to professionals, or at least assembly line workers in Dell, etc. who in fact know what they're doing.

lol

as if.

Al.

logic1

Originally posted by Fand
I'm getting cross now. This is typical of the Irish attitude that existed before Tiggy the Celtic Tiger - and now it's coming back:

The Celtic Tiger -> BWAHAHAHAHAHAH

someone says "think I'll do something about this gap in the market"

Personally I don't thinkwriting FAQs is a market and also there are hundreds of excellant FAQs about building PCs available.
After all it's not exactly an original idea.

http://www.pcguide.com/topic.html

http://www.daileyint.com/build/build.htm

http://www.motherboards.org/articlesd.html/aid=21/pg=1

Maybe you should have done a little research before jumping arse first.

and immediately a bunch of people spring up, divided into two groups, one saying "What a lousy idea", the other saying "You're the wrong person to do it anyway".

We know from past experience that this can be a very, very technical forum with experts from all areas of IT reading here. When someone comes along that has been posting the most basic technical questions and suggests that they're going to write a FAQ on building pcs which will be in some way the most complete and well laid out FAQ available then of course you're going to get opposition.. what did you expect? Everyone to accept that someone with seemingly so little technical expertise can come along and write an industry standard FAQ which is going to educate thousands of eager newbies. This reminds me of your webmaster post where you stated:

At the moment I'm not a web builder - but I am a *very* good teacher. Once I've learned the basics I'll do a simple site, and pass on the knowledge to my associates. And you can bet that what it's taken 10 weeks to teach me I can teach in a couple of hours.

I'm the right person to do this for two reasons:

a) I'm willing to *do* it, not just sneer at the idea

Actually from what I've seen you want others to do it for you, you're then going to compile the information into some sort of handbook and passit off as your own work. You have to remember some of us get paid for doing stuff like this everyday, we're not going to come along and *work* for you in our spare time.

b) I am typical of the kind of person who needs to know the answers to the questions above and others like them (well, I know them, but I know what people *want* to know).

I can't see how anyone could state they know all the answers. Building PCs at it's basic level is relatively simple but no one ever knows all the answers. If you, as you've stated, do "know them" then why do you need any assistance in writing this FAQ?

It may surprise and grieve certain posters to these boards, but there are a few people in existence whose recreational reading isn't motherboard manuals.

Gerry, email me, please.

So after stating you know all the answers you're now saying that you in fact don't know all the answers? Not great at making a point and sticking to it are you?

.logic.

po0k

Here here.

Those last few were stupid and arrogant posts Fand.

Especially that webmasters one. Lol.
10weeks down to a few hours. Rofl.

An FAQ would be handy but it would only need the bare basics really. Enough to get you to post your PC and iall drives correctly.

That's just about what you need to get an OS up and running. Roughly.

As for the red-0stripe issue, I appologise for an, er, ambiguity or mistakes in my post. I was rushing.

If i had an open case anda webcam handy I could show it very clearly, very quickly.
Unfortunately I seem to be developping a nasty habit of confussin' , curbonglin' and discombobulatin' myself in posts lately.

I'll try and borrow a webcam an posta few ultra clear and idiot-proof pix.

Then again...

Some lad's sig in NUIG Compsoc:
"Nothing is totally foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool"

The FAQ is something that should be pursued, if even to stop recurring posts on which colour your red LED should go when you turn on the PC



..........Which reminds me, is it easy to get blue/white/ultra-violet-typish LEDs anywhere? Gonna mod my Keybopard lights

Zero

In fairness, there is no point writing a FAQ unless you know a hell of a lot about the subject.
"A simple FAQ for home PC builders" ??

You could write out instructions 1-300 of how to assemble a generic PC, but then try writing out everything that could go wrong with it......A lot of us here on the boards would have done an awful lot of work with hardware etc, enough to be self-professed experts maybe, but still somethin will kick with a machine the odd day and you end up going "WTF just happened there", "why the hell wont this work"

We probably dont know jacksh1t but still if we were to write down all we DO know, it would be one hell of a big FAQ, and still useless to some spa who's machine is freezing because of dodgy RAM CAS settings or some such bullsh1t.

Forget it, if you knew 10 times more than the combined knowledge here, and were willing to sit down for a few months and write it, then maybe you could do it.

Fand

SyxPax: Do you mean "hear, hear" or "here here"?

Logic: I don't want to make a profit out of this, I want to offer a service, by giving answers to basic questions which I've seen here and elsewhere over and over.

Beaver: Indeed I'm not cross at any suggestion that it should be a collaborative effort - I'd be delighted if people actually wanted to collaborate, which is what I was suggesting.

All: The idea that very technically-minded people should be the ones to write FAQs is the reason that people keep asking the same questions - normal people can't understand their answers.

beaver

Originally posted by Trojan
as if.

They do know what they're doing Much as you might be loath believe it. It's not difficult. This wire goes here, the red bit points that way. How many boxes come out of Dell with the IDE cable the wrong way around? Shag all I should imagine.

Fand

By the way, here's a quote from one of those "easy guides" which someone suggested I read - and in fact reading hundreds of these online is why I want to do the FAQ:

Tips: Spend the extra $5 for a UL-listed P/S,  Power is a good thing: get a 230+ W P/S; Quiet is cool: get a P/S that has an automatic temperature sensor that will speed up its fan as temperature rises; ATX P/S's allow your computer to be shut off or turned on electronically through your OS or through a modem ring-on feature

Now, you understand that. I (as it happens) understand that. But most human beings do not, sadly.

And it's an FAQ I'm suggesting. Anyone who wants to write all about the nitty-gritty of how frontside bus speeds happen deep in the dark mind of the processor is welcome to do so.

Thanks, Beaver, for a word of sense at last.

beaver

Originally posted by Fand
All: The idea that very technically-minded people should be the ones to write FAQs is the reason that people keep asking the same questions - normal people can't understand their answers.

Christ, Fand, building you own PC if you don't know how is a technical undertaking. If you can't get your head around the manuals then just leave it. It's simply not for everyone. FAQs are all well and good, but you should never rely on them for something like that. Your motherboard for example is more than likely going to have jumpers and pins in different locations than other boards. Therefore, you're going to have to consult your motherboard manual.

Now sure, there are some great FAQs out there on PC assembly, but they're written by dudes who know their sh!t and they still can't cover every nuance and thing that might go wrong.

logic1

Originally posted by Fand
SyxPax: Do you mean "hear, hear" or "here here"?

Grammar trolling is the lowest form of cheap shot on boards. We all know it, please don't do it.

Logic: I don't want to make a profit out of this, I want to offer a service, by giving answers to basic questions which I've seen here and elsewhere over and over.

I never stated that you did want to make a profit. Maybe you should try to offer a service in your area of expertise, whatever that may be, instead of in the tech secotr.

Beaver: Indeed I'm not cross at any suggestion that it should be a collaborative effort - I'd be delighted if people actually wanted to collaborate, which is what I was suggesting.

What what I can see you personally have nothing to offer a PC building FAQ. You simply want others to write one for you.

All: The idea that very technically-minded people should be the ones to write FAQs is the reason that people keep asking the same questions - normal people can't understand their answers.

So FAQs should be written by people that know nothing of the subject?

Good point.

.logic.

po0k

Originally posted by Fand
SyxPax: Do you mean "hear, hear" or "here here"?

Even I can't lol at taht. WTF do you think?

Logic: I don't want to make a profit out of this, I want to offer a service, by "giving" *AHEM* answers to basic questions which I've seen(read:asked) here and elsewhere over and over.

I'm interested to know, who would've paid you to write a FAQ on a public forum?

Beaver: Indeed I'm not cross at any suggestion that it should be a collaborative effort - I'd be delighted if people actually wanted to collaborate, which is what I was suggesting.

How quickly they forget.......
Read your eariler posts and see if that statement is valid.

All: The idea that very technically-minded people should be the ones to write FAQs is the reason that people keep asking the same questions - normal people can't understand their answers.

Just WTF do you mean by that sunshine?

Also, starting a sentence with The idea that... implies you intend to elaborate, either by description or otherwise, on said idea.

Please don't post silly posts. It's hard on the imps.

mayhem#

Originally posted by beaver
, leave it to professionals, or at least assembly line workers in Dell, etc. who in fact know what they're doing.

As if....

po0k

Originally posted by Fand
Tips: Spend the extra $5 for a UL-listed P/S,  Power is a good thing: get a 230+ W P/S; Quiet is cool: get a P/S that has an automatic temperature sensor that will speed up its fan as temperature rises; ATX P/S's allow your computer to be shut off or turned on electronically through your OS or through a modem ring-on feature

Ok, first off, if the person has it in their head that they will build their own PC they are expected to at elast know that the unit of power is Watts, or Capital w for short, W.
This is covered at Junior Cert Science.
This leads to the idea that a Power supply of 230W rating can supply up to 230 Watts of power to the PC. If the aforementioned person hasn't the self-motivation to do this then they are solemnly advised to stay teh feck away from a Philips screwdriver when in the vicinity of a computer.

Also, just as a guess, that PSU thing was gotten from a US site?
That might explain why you would have a temp sensitive fan on your system. Pointless, seeing as how the variation in power load of a PC won't be that great while it's turned on. Waste of money to get one of those, just put two quiet 80mm fans in the PSU, one exhausting from the box out the back of the case and another just above the heatsinks in thge PSU to suck air upr from above the CPU and exhaust it better while cooling the PSU more efficiently at the same time.

I would consider myself a bit of a tech head, not in the class of Gerry, logic or Just Half (not being emploted in an IT posting -or at all -), but certainly able to hold my own.
I learnt the vast majority of what i know through fecking stuff up and having to fix it later, whoich I accomplished by reading information on sites.
No FAQ in the world is comprehensive, at least for everyone's needs.

I'll get onto getting those IDE cable pix this weekend if I can.

po0k

Posted by beaver
They do know what they're doing Much as you might be loath believe it. It's not difficult. This wire goes here, the red bit points that way. How many boxes come out of Dell with the IDE cable the wrong way around? Shag all I should imagine.

yeah, but do they know anything outside of the assembly guide? Do they understand why the Floppy cable has that funny twist in it?
They follow simple directions. If they had to take the time to actually learn what each new component was for and the advantages of card x over card Y the output of Dell would drop.
Mass PC assembly is easy, you have lots of cases with exactly the same config being pumped out each day, with prehaps one or two variations on the theme.
Furthermore the assembly is broken down so Jimmy mounts the drives in the cases, Julian attaches the cables, and Margret dumps the software on the drive.

Builing one individual PC to a certain spec, on your own is different. To feel confident you must learn and at least have a basic understanding of what each part does.

I am still in favour of an FAQ, and might write an article or two, to be emailed to whoever wants to moderate it for proofing and checking.

The mobo maual is essential though. Don't take the yank attitude of 'I'm a plumber, i know thses things'.
Timmeh The Toolman Cripple.

Gerry

This has gotten way out of hand. It's obviously not practical to write an extensive faq on building pc's. As people have pointed out, it would take far too long, and would still not cover many eventualities. But I think a basic faq, covering some of the stupid mistakes people make, which are the same regardless of machine configuration, would be helpful. I don't think Fand is saying she wants to write the whole thing, more that she will compile common questions and answers. If you want to contribute, grand so, if not, don't bother, no-one is forcing you to.

In terms of helping people understand fundamental concepts of computer hardware a little better, perhaps a page of links to informative sites would be better?

On the temp sensitive psu's topic, most of these so called temp sensitive psu's just run the fan at a low voltage, all the time. What I do, at least on machines that need the extra cooling like athlons, is to open the psu, and wire it so that the temperature control is bypassed and the fan runs at 12volts full time.

beaver

*Sigh* The Dell point is becoming tired. Did anyone read the context I wrote it in? I said if you can't figure out which way to put in the cable, leave it to someone who can. Those assembly line workers are taught which way it goes. Yes you could also teach a monkey. Whether they're savvy with the technology itself is irrelevant. Personally, I worked with hardware for some time and know which way the cable goes, so I don't require the assistance of Julian in Dell. Some people perhaps ought avail of his service if they can't figure it out themselves, though.

Also, Fand is a dude, not a dudette. Strange the way everyone assumes that...

sutty

Originally posted by Fand
Anyone who wants to write all about the nitty-gritty of how frontside bus speeds happen deep in the dark mind of the processor is welcome to do so.

FSB "happens" on the chip-set, and not the CPU. Its sent to the CPU


Its things like that, that are making people say no to your idea. As for what your saying abot the standerd person not being able to understand the FAQ's on the net, If they cant understand them, they should face facts and stop what they are doing and employ someone that does know to do it for them. You can cover the basics of PC building. but theres always going to be people having problems after that. for many reasions. IE: take me, when I first build my KT7-raid PC, I tryed to put a DXR3 card and a device on the second ATA100 connector......but it wouldn't boot for some reasion. A 5 min search on google and I found pauls KT7 FAQ, which explained that due to a bug with-in the bois, you cant have a DXR3 (or hollywood + card) and a device on the second ATA connector at the same time.
Its things like this that you have to look out for. A FAQ about the basics cant cover every mother board, CPU, RAM, and ISA/PCI/AGP config.