Something is coming and it'll blow you away!

dahamsta

Hi Fergus,

Funny isn't it how within a year or so of the break-up, Eircom pulled out of plans to offer TV services over DSL

But didn't the last DSL rollout failure happen because Eircom's entire gameplan revolved around VOD (Video On Demand), and the Regulator told them to bugger off because it would have been a breach of exclusivity clauses in the cableco's licences? Or is that some horse manure on the Eircom site and forgot to disbelive?

and NTL pulled out of offering internet/telephone over cable

Yeay because they didn't have enough money. *splutter* Didn't have enough competition more like...

adam

Kix

Call me gullible but I'm inclined to take Revolver's remarks in good faith.

If I was in a similar position, I'd do the same.

I hope he's right and that it won't be long till it spreads outside of West Dublin.

I did notice something a little interesting on NTL PowerPoint (information) channel last night. Something like "All of NTL's Galway network is now fiber optic so please be careful when you dig 'cos it's expensive to repair". Does that mean that their network upgrade is complete or nearly complete in Galway. I don't really know but it might.

K

mike65

Here in Wateford the "dial before you dig" graphic on NTL Text
channel has been running for literaly years, over a year anyway. The whole of Waterford is fibre friendly but you would'nt know it of course.:(

NORTH1

Hi all.

This is what happened to me to-day.
I rang NTL for the third time to give out about the fact they never came back to me on my digital TV connection that they said would be available in two weeks.

The ladie apoligised and checked into my area and said it was available to go, so i said how soon to connect me,The answer, a week in a half.

I got into how expensive my internet bill was with them and that i was going to have to cut back, when she ask would i hold.

She then came at me that in two week's a new package would be offered in my area (Dublin 15), 128k cable the details where not fully confirmed put she thought it would be something like £50 connection, and £25 a month, always on, that there be a better deal with the digital tv as well, if i wanted to wait the two weeks.

Needless to say, the grin could not be wiped of my face the rest of the day.

Really hoping it happens.

Brian.

Revolver

Thanks for the last post North. Actually I didn't think D15 was in the area but if the gurus in customer service (I jest of course!) say it is then who am I to argue?

To be honest with you all to upgrade the whole network to two way would cost millions and right now I don't know if NTL have the cash. But they have posted good profits so who knows? I think that the next roll out will be city centre D1 and 2. for business customers.

Even if one area gets broadband it's a step in the right direction. I too would like to see the odtr and those other muppets pushing all the telco's to get this sorted.

Incidentally, i've just moved house and I have now been waiting for 10 weeks for Eircom to install a phone line. I called 'em two days ago and they put me through to some guy in a warehouse in Bray????

What a shower of absolute c*nts!!!

:mad:

dahamsta

I don't know if NTL have the cash

*snort*

adam

pete

just spoke to a very nice chap in NTL customer service about digital TV / Cable internet


(offtopic)he tells me that D15 will have digital telly before christmas


but more importantly he confirmed that cable internet will be relaunched "next monday" (i'm guessing he meant monday week)

he says it'll be tested in tallaght initially - , no not more tech testing, but testing the market to gauge the level of interest

i think he said that the equipment costs £100/£150. maybe. don't quote me.

he says it's €30 a month, no cap, 512k down

he says that providing there's sufficient interest, they'll proceed with the network upgrade

no timescales are available, but the division of NTL dealing with it have estimated that it would take 3 years to upgrade the entire city

he also expressed surprise at the number of enquiries they've received considering they haven't advertised or even announced it yet. how strange, eh?

ahem.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Revolver
Incidentally, i've just moved house and I have now been waiting for 10 weeks for Eircom to install a phone line. I called 'em two days ago and they put me through to some guy in a warehouse in Bray????

A bit like my experience with NTL. I was supposed to be in an upgraded area for two-way services and was sold cable modem internet. After several visits by various technicians who checked the quality of the line, it turned out that fibre had not been connected to the node and it would not make economic sense to do this work for just one customer. On their computer the area was fully upgraded.

Well, it might be like that with Eircom and your line. Maybe there's no money in installing new lines and that there's more money in extracting revenue from existing lines.

PiE

Originally posted by Revolver
I think that the next roll out will be city centre D1 and 2. for business customers.

Humbug! D7 has a huge business sector too!

alastair

Originally posted by Revolver
I think that the next roll out will be city centre D1 and 2. for business customers.

Umm, any timescales on that?

Dublin 1 and desperate (home office).

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Revolver
I think that the next roll out will be city centre D1 and 2. for business customers.

I doubt that somehow...doesn't D1 and D2 already have Chorus satellite?

Would it not make better sense for NTL to go to an untapped area of Dublin and reap the profits?

Boston

dear good tell me its dublin 3,

if its 128k it explains alot, its probably that same service they are about to launch in england. probably explains why they can launch it.
if its 516k then woppy, and for 30 euros even better.

Eircom can go **** themself, and at the next ioffl meeting you better be there because afew of us will want to buy you a brink.

Supercell

Originally posted by NoelRock


I doubt that somehow...doesn't D1 and D2 already have Chorus satellite?

Not the area of D1 i'm in, NTL rules the roost, i really hope its the next upgrade area
Presumably if its done with business in mind the infrastructure will be there to add it to the consumer market?

Bard

Has anyone got any HARD SOLID FACTS to report rather than just wild conjecture of the "my mate told me this down the pub" variety and raw guesses dressed up as gospel truth?

This looks like viral marketing to me, - helping to spread the name "ntl" around the place, without any real product on offer.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Well as per my conversation w/ NTL this week, most of the southside- this includes d14, d16, d18, blackrock, foxrock, stillorgan, and the vicinity are still devoid of NTL Internet cabling:(

BUT if it is £25-30 w/ no cap let that be a bit of viral marketing that can infect me big time:)

If anyone has spoken to NTL directly confirming or otherwise, please Post. AFAIK, they've only officially ever said West Dublin (Tallaght, on the way to Lucan etc.) is ready so Dublin 15 (castleknock area ?) might be pushing it?

Boston

accroding to the goverment im in west dublin and thats d3 so you tell me.

Q_Ball

Originally posted by NORTH1

She then came at me that in two week's a new package would be offered in my area (Dublin 15), 128k cable the details where not fully confirmed put she thought it would be something like £50 connection, and £25 a month, always on, that there be a better deal with the digital tv as well, if i wanted to wait the two weeks.

schweet

corkie

Esat signs unbundling deal with Eircom

Just wondering if it is any way related to the above rumour post by 'Revolver'.

If it is the news has broken early!

Best regards,

pete

Originally posted by Bard
Has anyone got any HARD SOLID FACTS to report rather than just wild conjecture of the "my mate told me this down the pub" variety and raw guesses dressed up as gospel truth?

I would suggest a good starting point would be reading some of the previous posts

The facts i posted came straight from an NTL person, speaking in their official capacity.

Why not ring them up and ask them yourself & see if you can verify the info?

Boston

this is exactly what i said before in my post.

your damn true it does, this will probably mean eircom can go ahead with there adsl plains soon after ntl and their cable.

i probably still go with ntl then get eircom adsl

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete


I would suggest a good starting point would be reading some of the previous posts

The facts i posted came straight from an NTL person, speaking in their official capacity.

Why not ring them up and ask them yourself & see if you can verify the info?

A decision on whether to resume upgrading is likely at this point to be known only at board level. When a decision is reached it will be made known to both the public and the staff at the same time. At the moment people seem to be posting rumours among call centre staff.

The only thing I will believe will be a public statement by NTL that they are resuming upgrading together with a timetable for the various areas. Even that doesn't mean much as they can still back out like they did before.

In the UK they are selling broadband heavily to those areas that are upgraded but don't appear to be actively upgrading other areas. A lot of people are frustrated because they are not getting firm commitments out of NTL.

This thread was started by someone saying that something wonderfull was going to happen. Immediately people started speculating as to what it might be (including myself). We still don't know.

When it was suggested that it might just be selling cable internet to those areas that are already upgraded, the original poster did not disagree but said that surely that was good news and a step in the right direction.

Well, if that's the case, then it's good news for those ~30,000 homes that are already upgraded but does not mean that NTL are going to upgrade the rest of Dublin (or Waterford or Galway). There is a big difference between getting a return on existing investment and making new investment. In the current financial climate, there is an emphasis on getting the most out of existing assets.

If you phone up NTL and ask when your area will be upgraded it is likely that you will be told when the area is ready for digital TV. This is because that is the only date the staff member will have. Not all NTL staff know what a cable modem is and what the requirements are for this sort of service. Upgrading an area for two-way services is much more involved than for digital TV. The engineers know, but they do not man the phones. The faults section probably know, but they are not given plans and timescales.

pete

A decision on whether to resume upgrading is likely at this point to be known only at board level. When a decision is reached it will be made known to both the public and the staff at the same time. At the moment people seem to be posting rumours among call centre staff.

ok

Maybe you misunderstood when i said the person was speaking "in their official capacity".

So i won't get all ratty and stuff....

But why not go back and read what i posted yesterday?

Ahhh sure what the hell - i'll say it again:

I called NTL at lunchtime yesterday and asked some questions:

I asked about digital telly in dublin 15

- I was told i'd get it before christmas

I asked about cable internet

- I was told it was to be announced "next monday"

I asked where it would be available

- I was told that, as the only upgraded area, it would just be Tallaght initially, and depending on the level of take-up there they'd roll it out to the rest of the city.

I asked were there timescales, or a work programme for the network upgrade that would be necessary for the rest of the city.

- I was told that there were none at present, but that at a meeting with the NTL division that would be handling the upgrade a three year period had been mentioned as a best case scenario.

I asked how much the fees would be

- I was told 30 euro's a month, plus an initial equipment charge (the specifics of which i cannot remember, but i think he said £150).

I asked what you got for your €30

- I was told 512k down, with no cap. The customer service person then told me that they had been given a chart with price comparisons between NTL and eircom DSL.


Now.

None of this discussion happened on the Q.T. - there were no nods, and no winks. They were straight questions, and straight answers.

This to my mind was not a call centre rumour, and it was not blokedownthepub-ism. (Dare I say that the paragraph I quote above is? )

This was someone who sounded like
a. He knew what he was talking about, and perhaps more importantly,
b. He gave a ****

Incidentally - he was just as happy about the 512k down as I was.


Oh and if they DON'T announce it, i'll be ringing them back to find out why they're telling people otherwise.


Maybe someone from IOFFL could ring NTL's P.R. people in their official capacity and find out what - if anything - is actually going on?

mike65

Originally posted by SkepticOne

Well, if that's the case, then it's good news for those ~30,000 homes that are already upgraded but does not mean that NTL are going to upgrade the rest of Dublin (or Waterford or Galway).

Waterford and Galway are as far as I know both fully
upgraded and its only been the lack of same in Dublin thats' caused NTL to hold back on offering Cable modems, after all
Dublin is the market if NTL is going to make any serious money but its also thier headache as most of its network
is unchanged since Cablelink was a lad.

Mike.

the_corpo

i live in blackrock
right outside my window some burly men in luminescent yellow coats are putting some fresh cement on the pavement they dug up over night. they've put up handy signs apologising for the distruption to the area, and that they are working for a company called broadband on behalf of esat.

what's that all about then?

pete

why don't you go outside and ask THEM, you lazy bugger

the_corpo

because, AS I SAID, they are burly looking and smoking fags.


they might be mean

TacT

Or i'll walk down there my self and ask them wtf they are laying cable for :eek:

Now be a good lad and go outside with a couple of cups of tea and digestives and say "hey lads, fancy a cupper, and tellin me wut ye are up ta there"

SkepticOne

Originally posted by pete
This to my mind was not a call centre rumour, and it was not blokedownthepub-ism. (Dare I say that the paragraph I quote above is? )

This was someone who sounded like
a. He knew what he was talking about, and perhaps more importantly,
b. He gave a ****

Incidentally - he was just as happy about the 512k down as I was.

I take back my remark about people posting wild call centre rumours.

One point, and this is not attacking anyone here, is that NTL upgrading areas where there is demand has been the official line since they called a halt to their upgrade programme. Again, I hope there is some substance in their forthcoming announcement and that a full upgrading will occur and that it will not just be based on the demand in Tallaght.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by tactical anni
Or i'll walk down there my self and ask them wtf they are laying cable for :eek:

Now be a good lad and go outside with a couple of cups of tea and digestives and say "hey lads, fancy a cupper, and tellin me wut ye are up ta there"

A tray of tea and a few copies of the Sun or Mirror usually works. Mind you don't hold up their work, though.

seamus

Yeah speaking of laying cables,on Thurs night about 9ish walking around trinity, and just across the road from Judge Roy Beans was some guys laying cable, and the van said 'broadband services international' or something like that. I was quite curious. But too drunk to go up and ask

b20uvkft6m5xwg

'broadband services international'

Yep I've seen them lurking around the place. They were digging stuff up in Dundrum a week or so ago.

I didn't feel like goin up to and speaking to them bcos they did look rather rough fellas- one of them was wearing that "keep glasgow clean" t-shirt. **me scared better go**

Oh BTW Who TF are these blokes?

Dustaz

So to put this thread in a nutshell, No New News.

We have all known for ages that ntl's 2 way cable was available in areas of west dublin. We have all known for ages that they stalled upgrades and planned to continue them in 'areas of high demand'. We have all known for ages that wherever they do start to upgrade, it wont be overnight and could take up to 2 years.

So have we learned anything new from this thread? Apart from that maybe, possibly, (according to one inverified source) They are re-launching the existing service in already upgraded areas, Nothing.

Stop the romour mongering folks Wait till monday and see if theres an announcement (Ill bet ye a pint there isnt )

Cable still seems to be the best longterm hope for cheap broadband. On current form however, Eircoms and Esats DSL will be available to most people long before ntl get round to sorting the network out (im talking about Dublin here).

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Dustaz
So have we learned anything new from this thread? Apart from that maybe, possibly, (according to one inverified source) They are re-launching the existing service in already upgraded areas, Nothing.

The main news to me was that at some point they must have stopped selling cable Internet in Tallaght. Every time I phoned up, they said that this service was only available in Tallaght.

pete

Originally posted by Dustaz
So have we learned anything new from this thread? Apart from that maybe, possibly, (according to one inverified source) They are re-launching the existing service in already upgraded areas, Nothing.

Oh for christ's sake....

Look.

If when you say "one" you mean "several"; and if by "unverified source" you mean "an NTL customer service rep"; and if when you say "nothing" you mean "clearly stating that the service would be relaunched with a view to rolling it out (over three years) city-wide", then yes, I agree.

No new news. Nothing to see here. Move along, folks.

MyPerfectCousin

Originally posted by Revolver
I think that the next roll out will be city centre D1 and 2. for business customers.

Cable internet is pretty much a consumer-only service. How many businesses do you know with a cable TV connection?
(correct me if I'm wrong)

John

SkepticOne

It's great that we're all in agreement.

pete

Originally posted by MyPerfectCousin


Cable internet is pretty much a consumer-only service. How many businesses do you know with a cable TV connection?
(correct me if I'm wrong)

John

Quite a few.

And in any case - just because up until now NTL have been primarily in the TV business doesn't mean that has to be their only business....

Boston

Dustaz, one of these days you and me are going to seriously clash heads. your ****e is getting very boring , if you have nothing to say then shut up. it seems you only want one tread on this forum, the one telling you that ADSL is at your house and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. if this bit of news doesn't bring you a little joy, then a pity you and hope I never become like you.

Pete, is right, I know of several business that will use cable internet, look at it this way, it will be the same people that will use ADSL. big business wont buy either they will have sdsl or hdsl.


d1- d2 are both upgraded btw, they were officially upgraded about a year ago but cable internet was never sold in those areas. it may sense your going to do the main business area first. maybe that's what will be announced Monday week.

hudson806

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»

Pete, is right, I know of several business that will use cable internet, look at it this way, it will be the same people that will use ADSL. big business wont buy either they will have sdsl or hdsl.

True enough, although with their new rollout, NTL is moving from the DAVIC cable Broadband standard they used in their original rollout to the newer DOCSIS standard, which allows fairly fine-grained control over Quality of Service, VPNs etc. etc.. This will potentially make NTL cable Internet very attractive to businesses of all sizes.

Also, with the horrible slump in Telecoms right now, NTL are no doubt aware that building a network for residential customers who pay IEP40/month doesn't make any sense at all - they almost certainly have $$$ business users in their sights this time round.

d1- d2 are both upgraded btw, they were officially upgraded about a year ago but cable internet was never sold in those areas.

AFAIK, the upgrade wasn't completed, since NTL knew a long time ago that they would have to rip out any DAVIC standard equipment soon enough anyway, and thus didn't install it in the first place.

Boston

interesting, could you email me off, or post some info on the two cable standards as id like to read up on it.
allot of work was done though in d1 d2 and d3, it did stop but I noticed allot of work going on in the past few months using subtractors and working overnight so allot of people wouldn't notice it.

MyPerfectCousin

Originally posted by pete


Quite a few.

And in any case - just because up until now NTL have been primarily in the TV business doesn't mean that has to be their only business....

Fair enough, they do indeed (NTL) have 1,000 business customers according to their accounts but they also have 375,000 residential customers. If they could upsell cable internet to 10% of either group, even with a 4 times higher monthly fee for businesses, the comparable potential turnover is nearly 10:1 in favour of residential.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

d4r3n

anyone hear anything about NTL services in D4? i've rang NTl and each time the people dont even know what cable modems are.

hudson806

Originally posted by MyPerfectCousin


Fair enough, they do indeed (NTL) have 1,000 business customers according to their accounts but they also have 375,000 residential customers. If they could upsell cable internet to 10% of either group, even with a 4 times higher monthly fee for businesses, the comparable potential turnover is nearly 10:1 in favour of residential.

True enough, but the point is that if they start selling a business grade broadband Internet service in Dublin, they could potentially have tens of thousands of customers. Remember too, that most of their existing business customers are 2mb+ Internet leased line customers - broadband cable can hardly be upsold to customers like that.

And more broadly speaking - residential users pay far less, download far more and bother tech support more often. It would be difficult for NTL to justify rolling out a broadband product these days if its bread-and-butter isn't business customers, though the revenue from residential users is obviously great for NTL too.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

I would argue that the exact opposite is true.

MyPerfectCousin

Originally posted by hudson806


True enough, but the point is that if they start selling a business grade broadband Internet service in Dublin, they could potentially have tens of thousands of customers.

But they already have hundreds of thousands of residential customers, this is where their expertise lies. Of those tens of thousands of potential business customers, none of them are currently NTL customers. Much easier to upsell to your own customers than convert new ones. Much easier to succeed in a market that you've already succeeded in, than to become a success where you're unknown.

Remember too, that most of their existing business customers are 2mb+ Internet leased line customers - broadband cable can hardly be upsold to customers like that.

Exactly, they are an unknown quantity in the small business market, whereas Eircom has a commanding market share.

And more broadly speaking - residential users pay far less, download far more and bother tech support more often. It would be difficult for NTL to justify rolling out a broadband product these days if its bread-and-butter isn't business customers, though the revenue from residential users is obviously great for NTL too.

I understand the importance and value of business customers, but reiterate that they are not currently NTL's bread and and butter and aren't likely to be so in any new service any time soon based on their existing strengths.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

I would argue that the exact opposite is true.

Maybe so, and in that case I'd say good luck to them. By the way, do you have any examples of any "business grade broadband Internet" services based on cable, or any cable modem based service providers with a sizable business customer base? I'm not being cheeky, I really did understand that cable is not a solution for businesses since a) most businesses don't have an existing cable TV connection, and b) security concerns.

Apologies if this is all boring or pedantic to others and for taking this off topic -- but I am interested in what you know.

John

Boston

I have to say, im sick and tired of hearing all this crap about no money in residential broadband. In no other business do you make an investment and expect return like that. Its 4-5 years down the road before you make money

doesnt anybody else think that "bandwidth costs to much" or "network costs to much" or "hardware cost to much" or "eircom are bastards" dont all these seem like excuses.

id like to see how much it costs on average per sq yard to lay cable and how much return on average ntl expects to get on that sq yard. then we can see what the situation really is.

El_MUERkO

I saw that broadband lot digging up the road beside Santry stadium and NTL tore the s**t out of Finglas village a few months back.

Me crosses fingers and wishes really hard

Boston

right im goign to ask for this tread to be closed untill next monday week, as i rang ntl today and got a totaly different story, while it showed more interest and thought then they had in the past, they told me cable internet was planed for the future and that it would be coming down the digital set top box's but that it was 18 months away in all areas

ando

Them 'broadband services international' guys are working with Metromedia Fibre Networks. They have just completed a ring around Dublin. I doubt that they would be laying cable for NTL home users

Dustaz

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
Dustaz, one of these days you and me are going to seriously clash heads. your ****e is getting very boring , if you have nothing to say then shut up. it seems you only want one tread on this forum, the one telling you that ADSL is at your house and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. if this bit of news doesn't bring you a little joy, then a pity you and hope I never become like you.

Cant wait Boston, cant wait. FYI, I Already have DSL at my house and it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg (Ive already said what im going to say about my feelings on the cost).

So which bit of news exactly is going to bring me joy? The fact that there is not one single shred of evidence that ntl are doing anything in this thread? (ref: You and Petes conflicting NTL phone calls and The original posters breathless claims)
Id love to be able to get cable, Id love for the whole country to be cabled up, it would be great. What i dont love seeing is the original posters attempt at viral marketing and seemingly rational people forgetting that it will take years to cable up areas of dublin, nevermind the rest of the country.

Pete, i wasnt actually referring to your post when i said unverified, i was talking about the original post. Having said that, I wont believe any of this untill its officially announced. Marketing and Sales will tell you the moon is made of cheese if they think they can get away with it.

What i would love to see is a definitive list of the areas that HAVE been upgraded, a timetable for the next areas to be upgraded and an official price for the product (since it seems to be anywhere from 30-75 pm according to these forums:) ). Is that so much to ask?

Boston

please expalin, for the mentally retarded amoung us, how you have adsl to your home, i mean as far as i know eircom ar'nt allowed to SELL adsl to anybody untill they have a wholesale price.
maybe your just special or maybe your on a trial,

for someone who doesnt want anything to do with this tread, your sure posting allot