Something is coming and it'll blow you away!

MyPerfectCousin

Originally posted by pete


Quite a few.

And in any case - just because up until now NTL have been primarily in the TV business doesn't mean that has to be their only business....

Fair enough, they do indeed (NTL) have 1,000 business customers according to their accounts but they also have 375,000 residential customers. If they could upsell cable internet to 10% of either group, even with a 4 times higher monthly fee for businesses, the comparable potential turnover is nearly 10:1 in favour of residential.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

d4r3n

anyone hear anything about NTL services in D4? i've rang NTl and each time the people dont even know what cable modems are.

hudson806

Originally posted by MyPerfectCousin


Fair enough, they do indeed (NTL) have 1,000 business customers according to their accounts but they also have 375,000 residential customers. If they could upsell cable internet to 10% of either group, even with a 4 times higher monthly fee for businesses, the comparable potential turnover is nearly 10:1 in favour of residential.

True enough, but the point is that if they start selling a business grade broadband Internet service in Dublin, they could potentially have tens of thousands of customers. Remember too, that most of their existing business customers are 2mb+ Internet leased line customers - broadband cable can hardly be upsold to customers like that.

And more broadly speaking - residential users pay far less, download far more and bother tech support more often. It would be difficult for NTL to justify rolling out a broadband product these days if its bread-and-butter isn't business customers, though the revenue from residential users is obviously great for NTL too.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

I would argue that the exact opposite is true.

MyPerfectCousin

Originally posted by hudson806


True enough, but the point is that if they start selling a business grade broadband Internet service in Dublin, they could potentially have tens of thousands of customers.

But they already have hundreds of thousands of residential customers, this is where their expertise lies. Of those tens of thousands of potential business customers, none of them are currently NTL customers. Much easier to upsell to your own customers than convert new ones. Much easier to succeed in a market that you've already succeeded in, than to become a success where you're unknown.

Remember too, that most of their existing business customers are 2mb+ Internet leased line customers - broadband cable can hardly be upsold to customers like that.

Exactly, they are an unknown quantity in the small business market, whereas Eircom has a commanding market share.

And more broadly speaking - residential users pay far less, download far more and bother tech support more often. It would be difficult for NTL to justify rolling out a broadband product these days if its bread-and-butter isn't business customers, though the revenue from residential users is obviously great for NTL too.

I understand the importance and value of business customers, but reiterate that they are not currently NTL's bread and and butter and aren't likely to be so in any new service any time soon based on their existing strengths.

Not that they wouldn't target D1 & D2 for residential and hope to pick up some businesses along the way.

I would argue that the exact opposite is true.

Maybe so, and in that case I'd say good luck to them. By the way, do you have any examples of any "business grade broadband Internet" services based on cable, or any cable modem based service providers with a sizable business customer base? I'm not being cheeky, I really did understand that cable is not a solution for businesses since a) most businesses don't have an existing cable TV connection, and b) security concerns.

Apologies if this is all boring or pedantic to others and for taking this off topic -- but I am interested in what you know.

John

Boston

I have to say, im sick and tired of hearing all this crap about no money in residential broadband. In no other business do you make an investment and expect return like that. Its 4-5 years down the road before you make money

doesnt anybody else think that "bandwidth costs to much" or "network costs to much" or "hardware cost to much" or "eircom are bastards" dont all these seem like excuses.

id like to see how much it costs on average per sq yard to lay cable and how much return on average ntl expects to get on that sq yard. then we can see what the situation really is.

El_MUERkO

I saw that broadband lot digging up the road beside Santry stadium and NTL tore the s**t out of Finglas village a few months back.

Me crosses fingers and wishes really hard

Boston

right im goign to ask for this tread to be closed untill next monday week, as i rang ntl today and got a totaly different story, while it showed more interest and thought then they had in the past, they told me cable internet was planed for the future and that it would be coming down the digital set top box's but that it was 18 months away in all areas

ando

Them 'broadband services international' guys are working with Metromedia Fibre Networks. They have just completed a ring around Dublin. I doubt that they would be laying cable for NTL home users

Dustaz

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
Dustaz, one of these days you and me are going to seriously clash heads. your ****e is getting very boring , if you have nothing to say then shut up. it seems you only want one tread on this forum, the one telling you that ADSL is at your house and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. if this bit of news doesn't bring you a little joy, then a pity you and hope I never become like you.

Cant wait Boston, cant wait. FYI, I Already have DSL at my house and it doesnt cost me an arm and a leg (Ive already said what im going to say about my feelings on the cost).

So which bit of news exactly is going to bring me joy? The fact that there is not one single shred of evidence that ntl are doing anything in this thread? (ref: You and Petes conflicting NTL phone calls and The original posters breathless claims)
Id love to be able to get cable, Id love for the whole country to be cabled up, it would be great. What i dont love seeing is the original posters attempt at viral marketing and seemingly rational people forgetting that it will take years to cable up areas of dublin, nevermind the rest of the country.

Pete, i wasnt actually referring to your post when i said unverified, i was talking about the original post. Having said that, I wont believe any of this untill its officially announced. Marketing and Sales will tell you the moon is made of cheese if they think they can get away with it.

What i would love to see is a definitive list of the areas that HAVE been upgraded, a timetable for the next areas to be upgraded and an official price for the product (since it seems to be anywhere from 30-75 pm according to these forums:) ). Is that so much to ask?

Boston

please expalin, for the mentally retarded amoung us, how you have adsl to your home, i mean as far as i know eircom ar'nt allowed to SELL adsl to anybody untill they have a wholesale price.
maybe your just special or maybe your on a trial,

for someone who doesnt want anything to do with this tread, your sure posting allot

dahamsta

Dustaz, Boston, do me a favour and calm down, will ye? It's quite possible Dustaz does have ADSL at home, but more importantly, this is absolutely the worst time around for another wasteful flame war. Put your energies into positive stuff. Please?

adam

Boston

i just hate people who allways seem to find fault with everything and good in nothing at all.

dahamsta

I know exactly how you feel Boston, but Dustaz has a point too. For most of Ireland, the only significance of this is that NTL might actually be getting the finger out. And if it's actually true, I can't deny that it's of major significance. However if the truth be told, NTL have done this before, and of course Chorus customers are just going to be /more/ ticked off, because there's no competition in the marketplace to prod them into rolling it out too.

There's good and bad, so rather than arguing about it, why not just keep discussing it calmly and logically like you both have in the past? Project the real positives and negatives of the "announcement", so other people will understand it's significance, or possibly the lack of it. By doing that, you're both helping the community. By arguing, you're doing the opposite. So play nice, huh?

Gods, I sound like someone's mammy.

adam

pete

Originally posted by Dustaz
Pete, i wasnt actually referring to your post when i said unverified, i was talking about the original post. Having said that, I wont believe any of this untill its officially announced. Marketing and Sales will tell you the moon is made of cheese if they think they can get away with it.

Must...have....last...word.....must...have...last....word....

So - what you're saying is that when i rang up to verify what had been said in the original post, and I was told that yes, an announcement was on the way - and was quoted pricing - then that wasn't something that could reasonably be seen as approaching something akin to verification that an announcement on cable internet was imminent?

ok. fair enough.

But you can see why some (bloody desperate if they're like me) people are clutching at this hope...

And incidentally - could you enlighten me as to what exactly NTL marketing would stand to gain from promoting a product which doesn't even exist?

Bard

Dustaz HAS ADSL. He was on the eircom ADSL trial and those accounts were not terminated.

That's kinda irrelevant anyway... this thread is nothing but groundless speculation and argumentative chatter. It STILL looks like an attempt at viral marketing. If the thread doesn't become more constructive and worthwhile, I'll lock it.

Boston

ive a funny feeling that thsi tread might become more interesting around the 19th, its one of those gut feelings you know

Revolver

Hiya Guys...

I've been away from the net and returned to find this large sprawling thread! Great comments and opinion, a very interesting read all together.

First off lets be completely realistic. The rollout of broadband internet is probably not going to be done over night and for some of us the chances are it will be a long while before we ever see it. It's not a priority because the regulator hasn't imposed time restrictions on it like they did with Digital TV.

As a company NTL has every right to look at the market and decide which products to push and which not to. If they make a commercial decision not to spend the money on rolling out a new service then what can you do?

The recent announcement by Esat concerning the agreement with Eircom means little. Again they are under little pressure to implement ADSL and BT are pushing them very hard to deliver profits on the services they already offer. My personal feeling is that broadband will trickle out to the masses gradually, and i'm getting the same kind of feedback in here.

Tallaght will have it next week that much I do know (regardless of the cynics), but I can almost catergorically say that NTL aren't in the process of ripping out network to replace it for domestic broadband, no way, no how. The good news was that broadband cable was coming and that it would signal the start of a slow but sure expansion of the service whether it be supplied by NTL or A.N.Other.

Broadband Cable Services were laying network for Esat and a number of other carriers and as far as I know it had nothing to do with domestic services. The Finglas work was indeed updating the network but i'm not sure if it was for BB. Maybe they are just ripping the sh*te out of it because even with tonnes of rubble strewn around it would hardly look more unsightly...Just kidding!

Did someone mention Chorus? Don't make me laugh. I'll try to be constructive about this if I can.... They recently laid off all bar one of there sales force so they have one person banging out Wireless. The service has a very small operating radius (4k effective) and few businesses in Dublin have line of site. The transmitter up on 3 rock was meant to go live months ago and now they are saying it'll be the new year. The contention ratio will be high as well.

For those of you waiting for Sir Anto's shower to provide you with broadband, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Incidentally Chorus has been able to supply hi speed broadband in Swords and Malahide for about 2 years. I think they may have disconnected it now because there was so little take up.

Stay upbeat though, and keep the pressure on! Incidentally rather than have a pop at the ISP's with your stay offline thing you'd probably be better off telling people not to use there mobiles (Esat) or Landline (Eircom) until the telcos sort it out... but I didn't say that!

Great to see this debate progress.

Cya

Bard

To sum up Revolver's last post:

--

NTL: my employers - great bunch of people. I'd let them marry my sister any day. Keep an eye on these fellahs - they're the biz.

Esat: sh|te.

Chorus: sh|te.

Everyone else: sh|te.

--

I doubt this thread will LAST until the 19th, Boston...

LoGiE

Incidentally Chorus has been able to supply hi speed broadband in Swords and Malahide for about 2 years. I think they may have disconnected it now because there was so little take up.

Revolver


Are you nuts?? I live in swords and i can tell you now that there has never been hi-speed broadband access offered in swords. I know this because i have enquired a number of times via email and phone. The bastards struggle to maintain a proper tv service[ falls on it's ass at least once every fortnight] nevermind net access:mad: :mad:

SkepticOne

Thanks for responding, Revolver.

Originally posted by Revolver
First off lets be completely realistic. The rollout of broadband internet is probably not going to be done over night and for some of us the chances are it will be a long while before we ever see it. It's not a priority because the regulator hasn't imposed time restrictions on it like they did with Digital TV.

As a company NTL has every right to look at the market and decide which products to push and which not to. If they make a commercial decision not to spend the money on rolling out a new service then what can you do?

Not much we can do. NTL have the franchise and although the monopoly is ending next year (due to the 33% hike in basic services) it is not realistic to expect another cable company to install parallel services. The ODTR don't know how competition might work and is planning another discussion document on the subject. For the forseeable future, we are stuck with whatever NTL decides to offer given its financial circumstances.

The recent announcement by Esat concerning the agreement with Eircom means little. Again they are under little pressure to implement ADSL and BT are pushing them very hard to deliver profits on the services they already offer. My personal feeling is that broadband will trickle out to the masses gradually, and i'm getting the same kind of feedback in here.

I think the ESAT LLU deal is more significant than what you are saying about NTL. Even though it is just one exchange, it represents a new area opening up. People have had cable Internet in Tallaght for some time now (two years?). The problem is that it has been restricted to just a few areas.

Tallaght will have it next week that much I do know (regardless of the cynics), but I can almost catergorically say that NTL aren't in the process of ripping out network to replace it for domestic broadband, no way, no how. The good news was that broadband cable was coming and that it would signal the start of a slow but sure expansion of the service whether it be supplied by NTL or A.N.Other.

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

1. Tallaght is already upgraded to two-way services. Where is the news here?
2. NTL are not going to upgrade the network themselves. We already know this. They announced the halt earlier this year.

Did someone mention Chorus? Don't make me laugh. I'll try to be constructive about this if I can.... They recently laid off all bar one of there sales force so they have one person banging out Wireless. The service has a very small operating radius (4k effective) and few businesses in Dublin have line of site. The transmitter up on 3 rock was meant to go live months ago and now they are saying it'll be the new year. The contention ratio will be high as well.

I think Sir Anto's investment of ten's of millions in Eircom puts paid to Chorus competing with Eircom in any meaningfull sense whatever one's opinions of of Chorus as an independent business.

You appear to be hinting that some other company might take over the task of upgrading NTL's network in some way. I look forward to the announcement on the 18'th. Again, cablemodems in Tallaght is not news unless NTL quietly dropped the service without telling anyone.

SkepticOne

My last post may be a little negative. I should add that I'm realy hoping that something substantial will be announced by NTL on the 18th. Of course, I'm still supporting the Blackout in the meantime.