Building your own PC - your opinions

bren4q

Hello fellow citizens of Ireland!

I'm thinking of building my own PC (or have a PC hardware shop do it for me!) and I was just wondering about a few things before going ahead.

1. Is it really cheaper than buying pre-built PCs from the likes of Dell?

2. Has anyone done it before and would you recommend it?

3. Where would be a good place to start looking for parts? (somewhere nice and cheap of course)

I know my way around inside a PC and what goes where but I probably couldn't tell the difference in quality of parts. eg motherboard brands such as MSI, Gigabyte, Asus, etc. etc.

Basically, is it feasible? Is there any point in going to the trouble? Any views welcome.

GoneShootin

yes there is a major point

i learned alot when i built my p2 333 mmx, 10 gb hd, 128mb ram, 17" monitor BEAST [well it was at the time]

in those days ram was expensive, but its wat I learned, not the cost, that made the decision to built a good one.

as for parts, its best to make your own mistakes, best way to learn i had a gigabyte motherboard that never worked with 3d accel AGP cards....

best of luck

azezil

I was going to build my own pc recently but when i thought about it i don't earn alot so if i damaged anything i couldn't afford to replace it so i'm haveing the guys i'm buying the parts from put it together for me

JustHalf

1 This is a very difficult point to judge... for example, we'll compare two PC specs that are roughly equivalent (very rough now); one from Dell and one to be built from parts:

1.7 GHz Intel Pentium 4 Processor with 256K cache
3.5" 1.44 Floppy Drive
Mini Tower Chassis
Dell 3 Button Internet Keyboard
256MB Rambus RDRAM
40GB Turbo Hard Drive (7200 rpm)
Dell Value 17" (15.9" VIS) FST
32MB nVidia 15 GeForce 2 GTS [where they got the 15 from I don't know -- JustHalf]
16x DVD Drive & Software Decoding
16x IDE CD-RW Internal
On-Board sound
Microsoft Windows XP
MS PS/2 Intelli 2 Btn Whl Mse
Microsoft Worksuite 2001
1 Year Collect & Return Warranty
IR£1,710 (incl. VAT & Delivery)

From IT Direct:
CTX 17inch 0.27 Dot Pitch Monitor IR£175.00
Enlight 4 Bay ATX 300W P4 Midi-Tower Case IR£95.99

From Overclockers.co.uk (prices in Sterling):
Crucial 256MB DDR PC2100 CAS-2.5 (MY-001-CR) £28.00
AMD Athlon XP 1600 (CP-009-AM) £107.00
ThermalRight SK6 (Socket A/FC-PGA) (HS-000-TR) £31.60
Epox EP-8KHA+ DDR (Socket A AMD Thunderbird/Duron) (MB-000-EP) £86.50
Leadtek WinFast GeForce2 Titanium 64MB (AGP) - Retail (GX-000-LT) £95.00
Creative Soundblaster Live! 5.1 - OEM (SC-004-CL) £24.50
IBM 60GXP 41.2GB UDMA100 (HD-001-IB) £80.90
Teac 3.5" Floppy Disk Drive - OEM (RD-000-TE) £8.40
Pioneer DVD-106S Region Free! - OEM (CD-000-PO) £54.45
Microsoft IntelliMouse PS2 Mouse - OEM (KB-001-MS) £12.50
Microsoft Natural Elite PS2 Keyboard - OEM (KB-000-MS) £29.00
2x Rounded Ultra ATA100/66 IDE Cable (0.9m) - White (CB-000-GE) £15.00
Rounded Floppy Cable (0.5m) (CB-005-GE) £3.00
Subtotal: £575.85
Shipping: (Parcelforce Euro 48) £51.00
VAT: £109.74
Total: £736.59 = 930.589 IEP
Total IEP: 1201.58

Now, I'd be prepared to say that the AMD system shown here is superior to the Dell Machine in almost every way. Everything is good quality; it's got a better graphics and sound card, probably a better hard disk and memory, and it's certainly better for upgrading.

The only difference is I couldn't remove the CD-RW from the Dell system, or easily add a good OS to the AMD machine. If you include a similar CD drive for 170 pounds Irish and a student copy of Windows 2000 for 55, the similarly performing AMD machine is still only £1426.58.

So what do you get for that extra 300 pounds?

1. An application suite with only one package that doesn't annoy the crap out of me (MS Word)
2. A full computer return to base warranty (as opposed to the warranty you get on the AMD machine, where each individual component has it's own warranty)
3. Machine is pre-built
4. An intel machine (that pushes the price up slightly)

You've got to decide if that's worth it.

Also, a thread you might be interested in:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33867

2 I would recommend it as a learning experience and as a good way to get a cheap PC. If you can't put the components together yourself, get someone else to do it.

That also goes if you are afraid you'll damage the parts.

Stop laughing Gerry.

3 Sites to look at:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk
http://www.overclock.co.uk
http://www.dabs.co.uk

bonkey

Originally posted by bren4q
Hello fellow citizens of Ireland!
1. Is it really cheaper than buying pre-built PCs from the likes of Dell?

Depends where you buy your kit. In general, from my experience, you're best off getting most of your stuff mail-ordered from the UK, unless someone can tell you of a really good Irish supplier.

Check prices on Scan.co.uk for example.

2. Has anyone done it before and would you recommend it?

I built my current machine when I moved to Switzerland. Its a 1.4 Athlong, 512MB DDR memory, 60GB ATA100 HD, Geforce2MX gfx card, DVD-ROM, CD-burner, cordless keyboard n mouse, 15" TFT (hence the cheapo gfx card), and flat-panel speakers. Total cost was around 1000 IEP. I dont think Dell could have matched that when I built it

The advantage of building your own is you can decide exactly hat you want. Also, when you set a budget, you can start with an ultra-cheap design, and then see how much you have and what areas you want to soup up.

The major risk of course, is that you can bust components when assembling it. I would generally recommend that you find someone who has built a machine themselves, and get them to *help* you put it together.

3. Where would be a good place to start looking for parts? (somewhere nice and cheap of course)

Like I said...unless someone can give you an Irish supplier, look to the likes of www.scan.co.uk.

I know my way around inside a PC and what goes where but I probably couldn't tell the difference in quality of parts. eg motherboard brands such as MSI, Gigabyte, Asus, etc. etc.

Check out the likes of tomshardware.com, anandtech.com, overclockers.com. They all do frequent reviews and comparisons. Generally, there are only three major areas where you need to make decisions :

Chip - AMD or Intel. I go AMD for cheapness, but they are slightly more fiddly due to requirements for patches and so on. Also, they dont have good heat-protection, so if you mount your heatsink wrong, bang goes your chip. Less likely to be a problem with Intel.

Memory - do you get SDR or DDR (AMD), Rambus or DDR (Intel). Personally, I'd go DDR in either case. Its good, its fast, and its not too expensive.

Once youve decided on your chip and memory, you go for a mobo. Typically there isnt much problem here...the sites I've mentioned wiill have reviews of the major boards.

Basically, is it feasible? Is there any point in going to the trouble? Any views welcome.

Is it feasible - definitely. Once youve built your machine, you'll think nothing of swapping individual components for "continuous upgrading". If you buy a Dell, you may not be able to do this so easily, and you will be less likely to do so at all....

Is it worth the trouble? For me, yes. For Azezil, he wants his warranty so for him its a no. There are valid arguments on both sides.

You *are* more likely to have teething problems with a self-built, but I wouldnt let this put you off.

My suggestion for a reaonable config :

ASUS A7V-266A mobo

AMD Athlon XP (pick your chipspeed!)

Decent heatsink (TaiSol CGK760092 is good and cheap)

512MB PC2100 DDR memory (2 x 256MB)

Video card of choice (nVidia or Radeon are the only contenders in the top end. Kyro2 or GeForce MX boards for budget)

Sound Card of choice (I'm not up on these. I use SB cards, and have never had problems, but others have loadsa probs with them)

HD : 7200 or 10000 rpm ATA100. Make (for me) isnt an issue, but I think most people seem to avoid Maxtor (IIRC)

Monitor, case, keyboard, mouse, speakers, etc - get what you like.


IMPORTANT POINT

I have ignored the cost of an OS. You get one free from Dell. With a new machine, you should buy a copy of whatever OS you want to use, unless you have a spare license somewhere, or are ditching an old machine for a new one and are keeping the same OS. I do not advocate OS piracy, no matter how big a shower of khunts Microsoft may be.

jc

Mountjoy Mugger

I recently stuck together one. However, I wasn't buying all the parts brand new. I salvaged a 30GB HDD, floppy, DVD, CD-RW, grpahics card and monitor from my older PC. I probably saved myself in the region of £600.

I'd hazard a guess and say if you were to buy all the parts "as new" you'd probably wind up paying more than if you bought from the likes of Dell.

You would, of course, have the satisfaction of knowing that YOU built it - but unless you have the confidence and a little bit of experience, I don't think it's worth the risk.

As regards your choice of mo-bos - are you going to overclock? Will you be using RAID? Do you need a graphics/sound card, or will you settle for onboard only? These are just some of the factors you should think about before buying parts. Some people swear by Abit for ease of overclocking, for example. Others reckon that there's nothing wrong with the Asus.

Go to some of the hardware sites - e.g. http://www.overclockers.co.uk or http://www.theoverlcockingstore.co.uk and read the Bulletin Boards. Not alone will you get tips but these sites are pretty reputable online dealers (apart from OcUK's shipping charges).

There's too much to go into a reply on this, to be fair.

po0k

It can work out very cheaply if you throw your order in with a few others. Stuff is delivered really quickly and your treated nicely
Also, *whisper* if you can order through a business/your workplace you 'could' get it ex-Vee Ay Tea *whisper* which would knock a nice few quid off the price. I do not condone this behaviour, merely suggest it

The experience from buyilding your own is invaluable, provided you do a bit of research. It'll stand by you again later.

Fand is on about an FAQ (trying to get otto write it for here *ahem*) and I think it could be a handy thing to have floating at the top.

Doodee

Right, having built systems myself, for myself, I can tell you your far better off.
I used to swear by Dell, that was untill i wanted to upgrade a motherboard to get an AGP Slot. you see, all dell parts are custom built for dell machines so if you buy a dell you havva goto dell to get it upgraded, now dell are cheaper than the likes of compustore and currys but building the system yoursself is pants easy.

www.peats.ie are an irish supplier of electric Porduce and do upgrade bundles which consist of a MOBO,Case,CPU,Ram now if you can salvage parts from any old machine , Cd,Harddrive and such will you save yerself more than £600,
I'd recommend AMD over Intel, I used to swear by Intel some time ago also but im afraid to say that i saw the light , the stuff is cheaper and i have more fun trying to O/c amd chips.....
IT direct ( www.itdirect.ie ) are also good for parts and if you want to buy from either Delivery is only £5 so chop and choose from both. your also gonna get the stuff (if ordered before 12pm on the day) within 2 days of purchase, certain conditions and such...

You dont get the perks of dell machines (Full-Restore Pc and such) but u certainly wont have all Dell badges over your machine and a machine that cant be upgraded in the next 2 years...

also take a look over at the forsale boards , lotsa ppl selling MOBO's recently for cheap...£200 for a Raid Mobo and 1.2Ghz T-Bird

][cEMAN**

www.cclcomputers.co.uk - decent stuff great price.....will ship to Ireland for around same price as N.I.

www.dabs.com - If you know someone up north get it shipped to them for free

Best thing to do is this.......

Go to as many webpages dealing with PC parts as possible (I find these two are the best and have dealt with CCL a lot)

Make a list of what you want through both then line up all the webpages and delete all but the cheapest parts.

Doing this between these two alone I saw I could build a MONSTER system with a geforce 3 asus deluxe (all added features) a 1800 athlon XP 256 DDR and an ASUS MB with 40 gig hdd for about.....£1100

You get a bog standard 1.4Ghz athlon and you're talking AROUND the same speed really (you can clock it ffs) for about £800-£900 sterling!!

GoneShootin

on that subject, i needs to get me a 19" Monitor at a good price

plus

a low cost plotter too

thanks....

Gerry

Its only worth putting it together yourself if you have an interest in learning more. You will save money if you want a high end, customised machine. If you don't have the interest, or time to research, yourself, exactly what you are doing, its not worth the hassle. You will get the pc assembled easily enough, but when you power it up, thats where the fun starts. If you don't stick with it, it will get very frustrating very quickly. There are no easy answers to be gotten by posting every little problem on this message board either, this is an extremely painful and drawn out way of building a pc.

A few last things if you decide to build it yourself: It is not very likely that you will bust up a component, if you take basic precautions like earthing yourself, and building the pc slowly, reading the manuals thoroughly, and generally using logic, and common sense instead of fear.

I'd go with bonkeys recommendations on the basic hardware, but do remember theres not much point in having the fastest machine, with a 15" fishbowl for a monitor, and tinny speakers.
So reserve plenty of your budget for a nice 17" (or 19") monitor, flat crt if your budget stretches to it. And get some decent speakers, altec lansing and cambridge souindworks are two good makes, you don't have to go for the top of the line surround systems, 2 satellites and a sub will do perfectly if you don't spend your whole time watching dvd's.

Basically you will notice the monitor and speakers, whereas you will be hard pushed to notice the difference between a 1.3 and 1.53ghz athlon. I'd also prioritise the graphics card over the cpu if you will be playing a lot of games. Just about all cpu's available today, (say over 1ghz) are capable of driving games along at a decent rate, sadly the same cannot be said for graphics cards. So I would say it's better to get a 1.2ghz machine with a geforce3 titanium 200, than the fastest cpu, with a geforce2 mx. (IMHO) You can always overclock the cpu later.

Its still a good option to buy the parts and get someone to put it together for you. You will get an upgradeable pc built to your exact requirements, and if they know what they are doing, a stable one also. It will take a while to price all the parts, if you want the best prices there is no substitute for just comparing everyone. If you use more than 2 places for parts, you are likely to lose in delivery costs what you saved on the component prices.

Typedef

The money probably works out about the same give or take a few hundred quid, but if you have a desire (like me) to build your own system or (like me) you blew up your last system then why not build one?

If you are looking for good cheap parts then there are three places on the stretch of road from Virgin cinema(or whatever it's called now) to Dame street , along (Jervis street?) one of which is Maplin electonics and where I bought 512mb of pc133 sdram for under £200 ok? All so the guy's in there do not seem to be rip-off con artists like in Peats.

Fidelis

You got screwed big time on the ram, Typedef.

leeroybrown

where I bought 512mb of pc133 sdram for under £200 ok

£200 for 512 of PC133 ...

you could get that for less that IR£60.

Even Major Banded CAS2 PC133 Ram should cost less than half that price.

phaxx

I don't think typedef means he bought the ram recently.

Peats are expensive, I've been getting a few things from itdirect recently and they're pretty good. I've ordered a whole system from dabs.co.uk and was very happy with them, and the shipping is definately in your favour if you're buying a monitor and other large items, it's £25 irish no matter how much you order.

seamus

Instead of creating another 'building pc' thread, will someone answer me these questions three?

I know nothing about types of motherboards, slots, etc. I'm using a PII, 300mhz I think, My mobo has 2 USB ports and atx power, if that helps, probably not, ie it's a top-of-the-line-for-it's-time(1999) motherboard. I'm assuming a sh!t slow system bus, but I want to upgrade as much as possible. so......
What is the fastest Processor I can fit onto this board?
What is the fastest RAM I can stick in. I think 133mhz might be a bit fast, but maybe 100mhz is pushable?
I also need a faster/bigger HD than my 2600 revs 8gig, can you give me advice on cheapness vs. speed?

Soz about having no info, I'm in work at the mo, but any inof would be well appreciated.

sutty

Originally posted by Typedef
All so the guy's in there do not seem to be rip-off con artists like in Peats.

No they are, Sure Gerry used to work there (thats how low they are)

sutty

an extra note

I got 512 megs of infeon 133 cas2 ram last december from overclockers.co.uk all for under (with shiping) £170 Irish

Gerry

seamus, your board is more than likely based on the intel 440lx chipset, unless its a very late pII 300. So it won't take a 100fsb chip, and its too old to take a celeron II. You should be able to get a 533 mhz celeron to work on it, with a bios update, but thats it I'm afraid. Its a 66mhz bus, you may be able to overclock it to 75mhz or 83mhz though.

It will run with pc133 ram, since pc133 ram has no problem running at 100, or 66mhz.

Theres no point in skimping on a hard drive, you spend a lot of time waiting on it. For around 140 quid you can get a 40gb 7200rpm quantum drive. Again, this will probably need a bios update before it works.

seamus

Ugh, cheers gerry, It looks like I' be better off going new board, cpu and RAM. Oh wait, that's a new computer. It's gonna be an expensive christmas list this year. I NEED MONEY!!!!!AGGHHHH!!!