Blackout is a waste of time

Rebel

Hate to say this, cos i agree with your stand, but this blackout is ill-conceived, annoying to business users (like me) and appeals (i suspect) more to amateurs and non-business users.:(

If you really want mass support you have to choose a campaign that doesn't HURT people.

What's the point of losing a day's business to save yourself (maybe) a few pounds on yer phone bill?

It's a waste of time! :cool:

12free.co.uk

I can't speak for the group themselves but believe they have always stated that they dont want to hurt business , they want to gain recognition for the shoddy internet connection we have in Ireland in order to ultimatley improve the way that business can be done.

You say your a business user - just think how much more competivie and productive you could be with an unmetered package or even broadband !!!

Daniel

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Rebel
Hate to say this, cos i agree with your stand, but this blackout is ill-conceived, annoying to business users (like me) and appeals (i suspect) more to amateurs and non-business users.:(

Riiight. This blackout is annoying to business users how? If you don't like it, don't do it. Several business people -- notably business owners -- fully support the blackout.

If you really want mass support you have to choose a campaign that doesn't HURT people.

It will HURT whom, precisely? If it's phenomenally successful, it will make a small dent in Eircom's and some of the ISP's revenues. BFD. They could do with a wakeup call.

What's the point of losing a day's business to save yourself (maybe) a few pounds on yer phone bill?

For someone who claims to be a business user, either you use the Internet hardly at all, or you have no idea what this campaign is all about.

It's a waste of time! :cool:

Someone pops up here the day before the blackout, claims to be a business user, completely misrepresents the blackout and its aims, and oh yes, it's a first ever post? The words "Eircom muppet" spring unbidden to mind.

disConnected

Rebel, somehow I could bet you'd be one of the first ones to take up a better offer, as soon as it has been battled out.

Once this offer will be available I am absolutely sure that IOFFL will have done a major part in achieving a fair deal - not only to SOHO's but also to home-users.

As you can see by the all the other posts the members of IOFFL are determined to go ahead with their protest.
So this protest will go ahead if you like it or not, and it also will be a success - again, if you like it or not.

disConnected

DeVore

Let me tell you this.

I founded and still own a fair chunk of Spin Solutions.
The current state of affairs in Irish Telecoms REALLY HURTS my industry. It hurts my product sales as it must others (there are things you simply cannot do over an isdn connection which is what many of the target companies are using).

It hurts us nationally because large businesses are turned off by the crap telecoms (cf: Microsofts decision not to locate another facility here ... the reason they gave was "poor telecommunications network infrastructure".

I wont be taking Spin offline tomorrow because we cant afford to shut down and lose 12 man days but I'll be cheering from the sidelines the efforts of a few individuals to bring pressure to bear.

This will hurt alright, but it will hurt less then the continuing situation. The possible return is enormous, even if its only a contributing factor of that return.

If you want to know the business return on broadband... why not ask Rondomondo who basically went out of business because they could not deliver their product (online media) to their customers (the public).

Considering that they are owned by Eircom this has to be the worlds first case of "Hoist by your own retard"

Tom Murphy
Managing Director
Spin Solutions.

yellum

Hi Alfie !
How are you ? How you been keeping ? Almost finishing up there now in Stephens Green I'd say, keeping the seat warm for Sir Tony ?

Nice to see you posting here.

Rebel

Originally posted by DeVore
Let me tell you this.... I wont be taking Spin offline tomorrow because we cant afford to shut down and lose 12 man days...."
Tom Murphy
Managing Director
Spin Solutions.

---

Tom, (excuse the edit)

You prove my point.
Like you, I'm very much in favour of cheaper rates.
Like you, I'll be "cheering from the sidelines".
Like you, I can't afford to remove my site.

My point (lost on those who replied to me) is this.

The campaign would be MUCH more effective if you and I (and other business people who are too busy to spend time getting involved in this forum) COULD get involved without losing money.

Just cos I don't agree with this daft blackout doesn't mean I'm against 'the campaign'.

Does anybody get this, or am I whistling in the wind?:cool:

disConnected

Originally posted by Rebel

---

...The campaign would be MUCH more effective if you and I (and other business people who are too busy to spend time getting involved in this forum) COULD get involved without losing money....

Points taken and understood.
Now, we are waiting for all those suggestions and brilliant ideas from the Rebel-MD... (disConnected having the cheek to speak for all members of IOFFL).

You see, that's what this forum is here for. Post your ideas and if the ideas are good and can be realized then it is likely that action will be taken.
The Blackout is the best proof for this.

MS

Did Eircom release one of it's 'Rats' on this newsgroup by any chance ?

Hate to say this, cos i agree with your stand, but this blackout is ill-conceived, annoying to business users (like me) and appeals (i suspect) more to amateurs and non-business users.

Ok so you aree with our stand.... but not the way its being done i can uderstand that. Everyone is allowed their own opinion. But to say its 'ill-conceived' ? Why ? If you had taken the time to read all the posts about how this came about and the amount of time and effort that was put in to it i am sure you would change your mind about it. As for 'annoying' i hope it annoy's the hell out of Eircom and anyone that sides with them. I...as a total amature approched some very non-amature buisnesses today with some Flyers and most of them said after reading it, Ok they might not be able to support it buisness wise but they would support it by not using their home phones or Eircom Mobiles tomorrow. That didnt hurt did it ? It clearly states on the Flyer that if the Blackout affects any buisness in any way by takeing part.... not to do it.
There also are a LOT more non-buisness users than buisness users but i was hopeing we were all on the same side.... aparently not

When the Q forms for affordable ADSL etc. i hope you know where your place is.... hideing at the back of it!


MS

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Rebel

The campaign would be MUCH more effective if you and I (and other business people who are too busy to spend time getting involved in this forum) COULD get involved without losing money.

If you're too busy to campaign for greatly reduced costs to your business, you're too busy for your own good.

Tell me this: how much money will your business lose tomorrow, and why? Assuming, of course, that you're not involved in the blackout.

Just cos I don't agree with this daft blackout doesn't mean I'm against 'the campaign'.

Still waiting for your brilliant ideas to replace this "daft" blackout -- the same "daft" blackout that has received media coverage from Australia to America. When you come up with something that can produce that sort of exposure, I'm all ears.

dahamsta

And Greece. And Portugal.



adam

yellum

Its getting lots and lots and lots of media attention(well done Adam and Elana )

Its already a winner. Its no doubt been brought to the attention of the people who can make the necessary decisions to change the net situation here.

DM

Rebel

Hey, take it easy...

Just cos i dont agree with your blackout, doesn't make me an eircom rat. (Phew, smell that paranoia!:rolleyes: )

Still, at least some users have stopped defending themselves and seem to be willing to hear a few new ideas.

A small suggestion:

i don't claim any expertise in protesting, but it seems to me that you need to think up a user-friendly way of INVOLVING as many people as possible.

How about an email campaign to a Minister or individual?
2000 emails to some bigshot might have an impact.
That would be fun as well as inclusive. (And costs nothing).

This could be a rolling series of targets, tell the papers 'who's next' etc.

Emails could be extra large. And so on.

i'm sure this 'kind' of thing would appeal to a broader base.

My own worries about going offline re Blackout aren't as capitalist-running-dog as some of your users are making out. Like, if my customers (Christmas consumers in Ireland and UK) buy a service from me and i can't provide it, they're going to buy from UK companies in the future. That's clever! :rolleyes:

exdub

Does the word "spam" mean anything to you?
That would be helpful...how?

dahamsta

Hey, take it easy...

Actually, I agree. Take it easy folks. Some people have genuine concerns about the Blackout. In my opinion they're wrong - they're thinking too short-term - but everyone has a right to an opinion.

Phew, smell that paranoia!

Walk a mile in these shoes and you'll understand why. Of all the industries out there, telcommunications is one of the most underhand and secretive I've ever come across. It's dog-eat-dog. You've got to adjust to the environment.

Still, at least some users have stopped defending themselves and seem to be willing to hear a few new ideas.

No harm in defending our opinions Rebel.

How about an email campaign to a Minister or individual? 2000 emails to some bigshot might have an impact. That would be fun as well as inclusive. (And costs nothing). This could be a rolling series of targets, tell the papers 'who's next' etc. Emails could be extra large. And so on.

Think about what you're saying now Rebel. What you just suggested is called "spamming", or "mail bombing". IrelandOffline doesn't tolerate, advocate, or condone that kind of behaviour, and it never will. We will not sink to that level. Ever.

My own worries about going offline re Blackout aren't as capitalist-running-dog as some of your users are making out. Like, if my customers (Christmas consumers in Ireland and UK) buy a service from me and i can't provide it, they're going to buy from UK companies in the future. That's clever!

And if you can't communicate properly with your clients, because you can't afford to stay online, or your connection is bad?

You gotta see the bigger picture. You're seeing one day. We're seeing next year.

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Rebel
Hate to say this, cos i agree with your stand, but this blackout is ill-conceived, annoying to business users (like me) and appeals (i suspect) more to amateurs and non-business users.:(

If you really want mass support you have to choose a campaign that doesn't HURT people.

What's the point of losing a day's business to save yourself (maybe) a few pounds on yer phone bill?

It's a waste of time! :cool:

The blackout is a gesture whose real strength is that it involves a sacrifice. It is saying to the various providers that, just because the internet is very important to us, we will not be taken advantage of. And we are willing to prove this by not using their services for a certain period of time. It is not an empty gesture.

In addition to this and because it is not an empty jesture, it is generating a lot more publicity than other forms of protest. This publicity is attracting new members which in turn increase the effectiveness of future campaigns.

chernobyl

Originally posted by DeVore
cf: Microsofts decision not to locate another facility here ... the reason they gave was "poor telecommunications network infrastructure".

I though MS had completely left Ireland and Bill was quoted as saying "we leaving beacuse of the lack of residential broadband"

David.1

I just got back from the States where they have the cheapest possible rates (often free) for Internet use, so I agree wholeheartedly with your campaign to get them reduced.
However, I also agree with Rebel. A blackout doesn't look like the right way forward. As this thread proves, it divides rather than unites.

A message campaign sounds interesting to me. If I write to my Senator complaining about something, he doesn't regard that as spam. And if an African-American pressure group organizes a write-in (or email) campaign, that's not regarded as spam either.

Sometimes you have to either **** or get off the pot.

Sorry if I offend anyone.

sutty

Originally posted by Rebel
Hey, take it easy...

How about an email campaign to a Minister or individual?
2000 emails to some bigshot might have an impact.
That would be fun as well as inclusive. (And costs nothing).

This could be a rolling series of targets, tell the papers 'who's next' etc.

Emails could be extra large. And so on.

I think you'll find thats a D.O.S Attack. It is way out of line, and people can go to jail for it. Use your brain, the black out hurts no one. If someone doesn't like the Idea, then they dont go with it. If they do they do. Just out of a point of intrest, what is your company? post the webby for it.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by David
A message campaign sounds interesting to me. If I write to my Senator complaining about something, he doesn't regard that as spam. And if an African-American pressure group organizes a write-in (or email) campaign, that's not regarded as spam either.

Probably several different tactics will be required. There was about 80% approval for the blackout idea after several weeks of debate. I'm sure with all the publicity generated through the blackout a letter writing campaign could be very effective. Each individual campaign will seem a bit lame in itself. It is the cumulative effect that counts. I would suggest backing this one seeing as it's so close to the deadline even if you don't think it's the greatest idea in the world.

Personally, I think it's been hugely successfull so far.

All IMHO.

NeilF

And its ten minutes before midnight. No point debating the pros and cons of it now.

The Blackout is going to happen so just sit back and enjoy the view

SkepticOne

Originally posted by NeilF
And its ten minutes before midnight. No point debating the pros and cons of it now.

The Blackout is going to happen so just sit back and enjoy the view

Didn't realise it was so late. Signing off now!

MS

Good Luck to everyone. Have fun and help if ye can no matter how small. See ye all sometime over the w/end.

Let the Blackout Begin!
:cool:


MS

mayhem#

Originally posted by sutty


I think you'll find thats a D.O.S Attack. It is way out of line, and people can go to jail for it. Use your brain, the black out hurts no one. If someone doesn't like the Idea, then they dont go with it. If they do they do. Just out of a point of intrest, what is your company? post the webby for it.

DOS attack me arse!
IrelandOffline is not going to get anywhere if you won't also listen to people like rebel. I've blacked out my site, but only because my main revenue does not come from my web-site. If it did there would be no way that I would have done this! The blackout is good, but there are al lot of diferent aproaches that should also be taken...

Hobbes

Originally posted by Rebel
What's the point of losing a day's business to save yourself (maybe) a few pounds on yer phone bill?

Well when I was in the US I had unlimited broadband cable (300k a second down/150k up) and it cost me $30 a month and was installed free and within 3 days of contacting them to install it.

Now I'm pretty sure you can't get that here or if you can certainly not for that price or access.

Ireland is in the frickening dark ages when it comes to the internet. I would bet that Afganistan has better internet access then Ireland.

Cr8or

I would bet that Afganistan has better internet access then Ireland.

lol not any more

ekehoe

Originally posted by Hobbes
I would bet that Afganistan has better internet access then Ireland.

No, sweetie, that was Kazhakstan. And Siberia.

E

MS

Cant beleive this thread is still going ? I got knocked for saying less ?

Weird! ?

MS