NTL Cable announcement

dathi1

Well I rang NTL and they said that it wasn't available in my area of Dublin 24. They said it was only available in parts of Dublin 24, 16, and 6w. OK.....so I rang again on behalf of friends of mine in these areas using their account numbers (with their permision of course)....and?? same thing.. " no its not available at your premises only in some areas....this is beginning to sound like a market research stunt.

Boston

well it was nearly 6 weeks after they laucned digital tv, before you could get it.
in fact i rang up shortly after it was launched and they told me i couldnt get it, but now i can

beomont

Considering it is so cheap would it be possible to get two or more lots of Internet-cable into your house if you were willing to pay two or more yearly subs.

exiztone2k

Will either of the 2 be available in bray/shankill.

flamegrill

regardless of wheather its gona be available to people, by:
"Always-On 512" do they mean 512k up and down? and the same goes for 128k. anyone know, or care to share?

megavolt

As far as I know the 512k downlink gives you a 128k upload, and the 128k gives you a 64k upload. Also apparantly you're not allowed to host a web server I guess these rates aren't too bad - unless you want to upload to one.

kamobe

Whomever provides me high-speed access, at a reasonable price first - will sign me up. I live in blanchardstown....

Why can't the telco's see this? The first company to offer a "reasonable" service is gonna clean up. I'm hopeing it's not eircom, cause i'd much prefer to give my money to someone else, they way they've been carrying on......

But - honestly - if they did just release adsl tomorrow, AT A REASONABLE price - i'd dive on it.

This NTL offer looks promising, but then it looked promising a couple of years ago when they promised to bring boradband to the entire city.

Dustaz

I know i got slapped for this a few weeks ago, but this is what pisses me off about this board.
NTL have done nothing, and i mean NOTHING new here for people who werent already in the special areas. New price for existing customers and thats it.

Originally posted by kamobe

This NTL offer looks promising, but then it looked promising a couple of years ago when they promised to bring boradband to the entire city.

Exactly. NTL can offer free sex and beer for all i care, unless i see some sort of timetable for upgrades in NEW areas, i couldnt care less.

LLU is taking place, and theres only a few threads about it, but every time a word is breathed about ntl we get 2 pages of romour and supposition.

For the record, Tallaght, Tempelogue and Terenure (temelogue road area) were upgraded the first time and cable available, untill ntl stopped in their tracks and as far as i know, withdrew from selling to new customers.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Dustaz

Exactly. NTL can offer free sex and beer for all i care, unless i see some sort of timetable for upgrades in NEW areas, i couldnt care less.

I would suggest that NTL are begining to look as much a heap of manure as Eircom and can look forward to a major negative image if they continue this way. Comptetion WILL come someday and I intend to remember who f###ed with us.

pete

What a lot of people here seem to be saying is "I don't have NTL two way cable in my area, so it doesn't matter."

That's kind of funny, because I didn't think Ireland Offline was about 'Me' - I thought it was about 'Us'....

Well see now, it does matter - NTL are once again making a broadband service available to a huge number of people.

So it's not available in your area - boo hoo. It's not available in mine either.

But it is available once again to quite a few other people - and this is progress.

What you seem to be forgetting is that NTL's 512k with no caps completely undermines Eircom's position on pricing - why do eircom need caps and bandwidth restrictions when NTL don't?

Why is it that NTL can provide this service at such a reasonable price, and Eircom can't?

At least NTL have an excuse for not proceeding as fast as we'd all like - To roll out DSL, Eircom just need to stick a few poxy boxes into their exchanges. For NTL to roll two way cable out citywide would take a massive amount of road digging.

(note: possible slight oversimplification alert)

edits: multiple edits to finish sentences...

corkey

Hi


Just been talking to ntl as i got digtal TV from them last last
week the bloody thing flickers all the time you cant turn of the box ,Its a pace box i would not recomend it, So if this is digtal
god help broadband

Boston

Dustaz, so what, eircom havent done at thing it the way of llu or broadband, yet continue to claim they have. if all this does is to put a little pressure on eircom, then why wouldnt we be happy

Dustaz

pete, im NOT talking about me only.
ill try one last time. this is NOT new news. this does not affect THE VAST MAJORITY OF INTERNET USERS IN DUBLIN, NEVER MIND THE COUNTRY.
ntl are not making it available to a 'vast number of people', they are RELAUNCHING THE SAME PRODUCT TO THE SAME PEOPLE.

I agree that thier price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it? its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago. Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )


which moves us handily onto eircom.

Dustaz, so what, eircom havent done at thing it the way of llu or broadband, yet continue to claim they have. if all this does is to put a little pressure on eircom, then why wouldnt we be happy

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.
Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous pricing.

In both these cases, we see the prices as untenable, but they dont. All they have to do is set the prices and and they have.

im open to correction in all this btw, but id love to see more of you lads in irc and then we could discuss it more in depth.

im open to correction on all this lads

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Dustaz
I agree that their price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it? its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago. Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )

It does make a mockery of Eircom's prices, and so does Chorus Powernet which has been available for some time now. Indeed, so do the majority residential broadband schemes throughout the world.

This does not seem to matter to Eircom. What matters to them is broadband being offered in new areas by competitors. Prior to this reduction in prices, Eircom had already lost in Tallaght. Noone there is going to take I istream at £105 per month for a capped service.

Same with Chorus powernet. Even take-up hasn't been great due to it's 3 gig cap, at £40 per month its a far better deal.

So there have been competing product at far better prices out there for some time.

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.pricing.

Not strictly the case. The current price is the one set by the ODTR. Initially Eircom wanted three times the European average price. Most of OLOs (other licenced operators) lost interest at that point. After failing to justify their price to the satisfaction of the regulator, the ODTR was forced to intervene and evaluate the costs and the a price was set. Eircom are now disputing this price in the courts (anyone know the status of this?). Unfortunately, this has created uncertainty and not many OLOs are interested in taking up LLU here.

Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous

They're not tied up in court. The ODTR has not yet approved their wholesale charges (believed to be EUR75).

Quite right too, IMO. EUR 75 is £59 pounds. Plus VAT thats £71. That's the wholesale price. In Britain, ISPs charge a markup of around £10. This is on a high volume product. Because of it's price here, take up will be so low that the markup will be higher, say £25 (inc VAT). This brings the price up to £96 pounds. This puts the retail price very much into the business niche. Will it be worth the while of ISPs to get £25 per month for a few hundred customers?

In both these cases, we see the prices as untenable, but they dont. All they have to do is set the prices and and they have.

Yes. Because to Eircom, ADSL is not a vital product. Most of their customers will be those paying through the nose for other Eircom products. Eircom don't really stand to gain and so they're making sure that nobody else does either. All they stand to lose is their image as a leading edge company but they lost that some time ago anyway.

dahamsta

im open to correction on all this lads

<monty burns>excellent</monty>

umm, Eircom have as far as they are concerned unbundled. any company can take advantage of it if they are prepared to pay the ludicrous prices eircom want. Eircom (and ive asked laywers about this) are not legally obliged to do anything else pending the outcome of the ODTRs legal challenge.

The legal challenge is in the opposite direction, i.e. Eircom are challenging the ODTR. Quick rundown

1. Eircom made a reference pricing offer
2. ODTR didn't like said reference offer and set pricing as an average of European countries
3. Eircom didn't like ODTR method and challenged Regulator

Of course in between we had plenty of infighting, with Eircom saying the ODTR wasn't responding in a timely manner, and vice versa. We'll never know which is the case, but you can guess who's side I fall on. The same goes for bitstream...

Its the exact same thing with thier dsl rollout. They have it all ready to go in a number of exchanges with the rest to follow very soon after launch. they cannot proceed because they are also tied up in court because of ludicrous pricing.

As far as I know, this argument hasn't found itself in court yet, although the indications are that it will. There doesn't seem to be any progress. You're assertion is correct though - if the pricing problem can be fixed, i-Stream can be rolled out to most of Dublin almost overnight, and most of the country fairly rapidly after that.

And the problem remains one of pricing. Eircom are being greedy. The pricing they're looking for is absolutely scandalous, and it would be wrong for the Regulator to accept it. However, I think most of the committee will agree that we're not looking for miracles here. I've said it over and over again, and keep saying it: I'm looking for fair products for fair prices, no more, no less. I have no objection to Eircom making a few quid, but the prices have to be cost-oriented. Over a hundred pounds for i-Stream Solo is not cost-oriented.

adam

Boston

before we get side tracked on llu, (i know its down to me)

ill take you up on your point on prises.
orgianlly cable interent was 50 a month and i think installation was dubble what it is now. i also heard but never confirmed reports that the prices short up to 75 a month.
so yes, either way this is a huge come down on ntl prices, the structure and nature of these prices can only lead me to believe they are gearing up to take on eircom the same way they are BT, but as you say, only time will tell.

pete

I too, will try one.... last.... time

Originally posted by Dustaz
pete, im NOT talking about me only.

Fair enough - I just think that there's a danger that people won't appreciate progress (which this development is in my opinion ) unless it directly affects themselves...

ill try one last time. this is NOT new news. this does not affect THE VAST MAJORITY OF INTERNET USERS IN DUBLIN, NEVER MIND THE COUNTRY.

This really depends on whether or not the service was actually available or not before last Monday - not living in an area upgraded for two way cable I don't know this for sure, but hasn't it already been established that NTL discontinued taking applications for the service some time ago?

Either way, this affects 30,000 households / 30,000 people ( i wish i could remember the source for that figure because i can never remember which it is.. I understand there's over 70,000 people in Tallaght, though) and even on the price issue alone I would consider this to be an ever so slightly important development, worthy of being described as "news".

It means that a broadband service is now (or 'again', if you prefer) available at a very reasonable cost to more people than you'd find in entire cities in "the regions".

ntl are not making it available to a 'vast number of people', they are RELAUNCHING THE SAME PRODUCT TO THE SAME PEOPLE.

See above.

I agree that thier price makes a mockery of eircoms dsl price, but its hardly a new price is it?

Yes it is.

And it's a pricing structure that can be held up and waved in Eircom's face every time they claim that it's not cost effective to provide a residential service with higher download caps (or no caps at all).

This also is news.

its not that diferent from what it was when they originally launched it a year and a half ago.

Yes it is - it's cheaper.

Id take ntls deal in a minute, its fast cheap and seems like a good service according to those already on it (from the original launch, did i mention that was a year and a half ago?:) )

Yes, you did.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to have a go at you - I just think that we've all gotten so used to the pathetic state of affairs here that it can be hard to appreciate progress - how ever incremental that progress may be.

Plus it's late, it's been a long day, and i'm rambling.

qtzar

Just to answer two questions that appeared in this thread...

You cannot get two cable modems / subscriptions in a single location. There is no technical reason just an NTL decision.

You are allowed run servers on you NTL cable modem service as long as you abide by the AUP. In the past the AUP did say that you were not allowed run servers but now it has been updated to say you can.

All I can say is that I have been using NTL Cable service for the past year at £50 a month so I am very happy at this price decrease. Just wish they would start testing the 1mbit service

seamus

/me almost in tears

I lived in D.16 for 19 years and moved out 6 months after they laid the cables :(:(:(:(:(:(

NeVeR

I havent read all the posts so someone might have said this already.

But there new Price is good . BUT you have to get your own Modem and someone to install it , witch costs around £300 ,

ando

Originally posted by NeVeR
there new Price is good BUT you have to get your own Modem and someone to install it , witch costs around £300 ,

that would not hold me back in the slightest at all.. 30 quid a month for 512kbps with no cap !!!! FFS, i'd pay a whole lot more for a service like that... Heck, the fastest connection ive ever seen is 128 'always on' and that costs my company 6 grand a year !

MiCr0

Originally posted by NeVeR
I havent read all the posts so someone might have said this already.

But there new Price is good . BUT you have to get your own Modem and someone to install it , witch costs around £300 ,

the modem is 130 and the install is 90 = 220
thats a long way from 300

Kappar

I lived in D.16 for 19 years and moved out 6 months after they laid the cables

I Live in D 16 and there are NO cables I am sad to say
Hopefully you are right but i think not:(

popinfresh

This is too good to be true, Is this going to be available in Blanchardstown?????

Boston

actually probably alot of upgrade cable in dublin 16, since there was alot of building goign on in that area. buts its probably patchy at best which explains why ntl havents released cable internet there

MiCr0

Originally posted by MiCr0


the modem is 130 and the install is 90 = 220
thats a long way from 300

if fact its 72+130 (install + modem) = £202iep (inc vat)

Dr99

Originally posted by MiCr0


if fact its 72+130 (install + modem) = £202iep (inc vat)

Why not just install it yourself and save the £72, it's not hard to stick in a pci card and any half decent drivers should be a brezze to install nowadays.;)

Dustaz

Thanks for the corrections on the legal aspects:)

And just for the record, i do also think that eircoms prices are scandalous. My point is that if eircom had said "OK, its going to cost you all 1,000,000 quid for LLU per custormer", they would still have unbundled. Thats been the thrust of thier argument since january "We have unbundled" "but the price is ridiculous" "well, its not our fault if OLO's wont take a bite" etc etc.

And yeh, i realise the price is cheaper now, but again my point was that even at the old price it was a way better deal than eircoms. Just dont hold your breath if you dont live in non-upgraded areas.

and FYI, the services were available in those areas originally. The impression i get is that there wasnt a huge demand for it before they closed applications. I wonder do those people get the reduced price now?

On another note, Is it true that cable suffers from contention issues more than adsl? If it does then the fact that servers are allowed and no cap....ouch, wouldnt QOS issues arise from this? If i lived next door to some guy running a warez/porn/mp3 server 24/7, surely this would affect my bandwith.

[soz, hit edit instead of quote]

Boston

Dustaz right, im not going to go into detail, but ntl have done **** all and will not do **** all untill january. i got onto someone high up (middle management) today and they confirmed this.

but look at sky digital people, they now have ITV and RTE i know aload of people that were jsut waiting for that to drop ntl. alot of ntl customers have both and they will now drop them.

so ntls going to start lookign at new ways to make moeny out of ireland. dont think this is all random, that these prices are releashed the same week, as sky digital sign up rte and itv

i think they will be playing ball in the new year and alot of things will change in the next few months.

dahamsta

well, its not our fault if OLO's wont take a bite

Well it is, but let's not go down that path again...

Just dont hold your breath if you dont live in non-upgraded areas.

Or Chorus area, what with our new Fearless Leader[TM] an' all.

Is it true that cable suffers from contention issues more than adsl?

Apparently so, yes.

I have to say that I agree with Boston to some extent. This "announcement" looks to all intents and purposes to be a reannouncement. They don't seem to have done anything new. And I for one will be dumping Chorus like a stone as soon as the ITV stuff settles down.

He's also right to some extent about Eircom - when the market is properly deregulated, Eircom are going to lose a hell of a lot of customers, not because of price, but because of their sheer arrogance. What's annoying is that it won't be half as many as it should be. Maybe IrelandOffline has educated a few more people though.

adam