Irish Indo €ircom-LLU Scan- 29/11/01

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Fergus

What's this about "Despite the introduction of new legislation ... the existing fines of £1,500 - which are not changing..."

The Communications (Regulation) Bill clearly states a penalty of 10% of turnover...

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Fergus
The Communications (Regulation) Bill clearly states a penalty of 10% of turnover...

...on indictment, I believe. The summary penalty remains £1500.

Fergus

Well, at least the possibility is there even if it requires indictment. Still, I wonder would it be worth having more severe fines too.

Occidental

Eircom will plead that LLU is happening at a slow rate due to problems with the existing infrastructure, external forces(government, ODTR) and lack of interest from other telecoms companies. They will use LLU in Limerick as a way of showing that progress is being made and will walk away £1500 lighter as a maximum. They will then continue to stifle any progress as usual, until threatened with major fines, at which time they will give a little ground and repeat the whole process over again.

10 out of 10 for stamina and sheer neck

NeilF

Why is it Ireland who is being sued? Should it not be Eircom the EU put in the dock?

b20uvkft6m5xwg

AFAIK its re: a.126 Non-enforcement of EU directives

The state in principle is obliged to implement EU law-
If it is a regulation or judgement it comes into Law across the EU immediaitely and supercedes National Law.

If its a directive the member country has discretion in how it will implement the law through its own national legislation (ie. Comms Bill or setting up of ODTR),
But...
They are restricted by time- ie- This directive must be implemented by Jan 2001 (as in the scenario w/ LLU), and if itsn't then they face sanctions +/or fines by the European Court of Justice!

Hope that explains it. It can be a bit confusing sometimes. The main reason for this method is that the EU are guarenteed they will get results- ie-The directive is implemented or if not they will get revenue from fines, whereas if they went after the company they might be insolvent & the Eu will get nothing:)

dahamsta

Why is it Ireland who is being sued? Should it not be Eircom the EU put in the dock?

Perhaps, but the EU doesn't like to get involved in litigation at that level. Their view is that Ireland is ultimately responsible for promoting competition in the marketplace, and if competition isn't coming about, it's up to the government, through the ODTR and the Competition Authority, to handle that. The EU will only tackle companies directly when they're threatening multiple EU countries with their actions, as Microsoft are doing.

And to a degree, they're right, you only have to look at the Communications Bill to prove it. This Bill was originally drafted in 2000, but it still hasn't been enacted (or whatever it is you do with a bill). Ultimately though, the EU can send Mario Monti in and take Eircom down a notch or two if they feel Ireland isn't doing enough to sort it out. And you can lay money down that Mario Monti won't allow Eircom's traditional politicking get in his way.

adam

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Here is a bigger more clearer version of the scan. The text is very clear:)

http://gsbdev.ucd.ie/projects/mis3010/g06/irelandoffline/01-11-29-eircon-facelluaction-big.jpg

enjoy!

NeilF

I thought the government had complied with the EU on the LLU directives, and that they had been put into law here in April (I think) of this year. I know that any government that understood the first six letters of the word would be doing more in the interests of the country but what more are they obliged to do?

We sold Eircom so that the state wouldn't be in the market and now we're being sued because we can't get the company we just privatised to do what we want?

I know you're into this law stuff so excuse my naivety on this EU stuff and tell me more I just can't make sense of the EU sometimes....

if itsn't then they face sanctions +/or fines by the European Court of Justice!

What's that? 1500 Euros and/or disappearing under the Atlantic

Dustaz

I think they arew suing the Govt because at the end of the day Eircom are a private company.
Eircom have stuck to the letter of the law (though not the spirit) by unbundling the loop but charging an uneconomic price. Its up to the Govt (in this case the ODTR) to sort that out.

What would happen to you if you went into McDonalds and started complaining about thier prices? They would say "Tough luck". So you would go elsewhere. At the moment you cant go elsewhere for your McLocal Loop but technically its not eircoms fault. If esat or any OLO were idiots and accepted the price that eircom want for access, there would be a choice albeit at huge expense.

In short, its up to Bertie 'E-Hub' Ahern and his minions to MAKE eircom drop its price. Thats why the EU are at them.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

As Dustaz pointed out...

Its the govt's fault for not enforcing the directive.
As I said earlier, while there is some discretion, the result across the EU has to be uniform-ie- Unbundled Local Loops.
Further to this I would imagine the ineffetive legislation handed to the ODTR would have come under the directives ambit as well and given that the dogs on the street know its fairly worthless I'm sure that is an additional part of thw writ.

I haven't actually seen the full charge but these are some of the things that would be included.