Networking 2 PCs with CAT5

Calman

I have 2 PCs with 10Mb Ethernet cards connected with CAT5. I was assured that the CAT5 would work for connecting a 10Mbit card to a 10/100 so I presume it will be fine for 10Mb to 10Mb. One's running '95OSR2 and the other is 98SE. I know it's probably an easy solution but how do I get them to recognise each other, for playing games and file copying? I haven't any network software installed so maybe that's it? And if it is can I download some simple network software?

moist

You don't make it clear, do you have 2 10m cards
or a 10 and a 10/100, anyway it shouldn't matter
the 10/100 should auto-negotiate and rull at 10m.
Next you will need a crossover cable, which is some
cat5 with certain wires crossed
You should be able to pick some up in anywhere
like peats or maplins.
Or if you want to make it up yourself there were
a few threads on the Nets/comms (I think) board
a few months about how to wire them.

Next you will need to get drivers for the network
cards, if you bought them new (or with the PC's)
you should have got a disk with drivers on it.
Otherwise you will have to figure out what cards they
are then you might be lucky and the drivers come
by default with windows or else you will have
to start web searching, or find someone with the
same card that will give you the driver.

Next you will have to configure TCP/IP (Ctl-panel -> network -> TCP/IP - Properties (Or similar))
on both machines to have a static IP in the
same network.
Use somthing like 192.168.1.1 and .1.2 with a netmask of 255.255.255.0
Connect them up and you should be able to ping
one from the other.

As for network software, the OS handles the NIC and actually talking on the network, so you don't
need any special software (apart from drivers )

Calman

I set TCP/IP -> 3 Com Ethernet (whatever version)
to 192.168.2.1 on the 98SE machine and 192.168.1.1 on the '95OSR2 machine- both of them with netmasks of 255.255.255.0 and typed "ping 192.168.1.1" at the command prompt to ping the '95 machine- no response with the ping. Tried it from the '95 to the '98 and didn't work either.
They're both 10Mb cards and have the correct drivers. The guy in the shop said the CAT5 was right for doing this so I presume the cable is fine. What to do? The primary logon is Client for Microsoft Networks if that makes any difference?

chernobyl

Both computers have to have the same "Workgroup" name, just get the properties of "My Computer" and then the tab "computer name" and there you can change it.

And just give the two cards, some random internal network ip, like 192.xxx.xx.x. and the subnet you already know and i hope your networked.

bkehoe

If you're using Win95/98/Me (chernobyl's instructions only apply to Win2k/XP), go to the network settings in the control panel, and click on the identification tab. Set a different ip (eg 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.0.2) to each pc, but the same subnet (e.g. 255.255.255.0), in the "tcp/ip - 'your nic'" properties in the network settings.

Brendan

Calman

Cheers lads- I tried all the above and even went into the BIOSes on each machine to see if there was any settings there affecting it but no. I think it's beginning to look like the guy in the shop was wrong about the cat5 being crossed- any last suggestions before I go and kick his ass?

PhilipMarlowe

I remember a wee while ago I went into Compustore *spit* in Kilkenny looking for a crossover cat5 cable and a couple of NIC's.
The Manager there insisted that all I needed was the 2 NIC's and a regular cat5 patch lead.... he never heard of a crossover cable....

I'm not sure on this one but I think that a crossover cable will have an X written on it... thats assuming that it's a pre-made one and not one that was crimped up just for you.... it's worth a look to see what's written on it if it was a packaged one anyway...

Snowbat

Disconnect the cable and put the two plugs side-by-side. Are the coloured wires in the same positions in both plugs? If so, its a straight-through cable for use on a hub. You need a crossover cable where some of the wires are in different positions.

Fooger

as far as i know snowbat is right and u need a cross-over cable but i think these really are just CAT5 cables where one of the coloured wires are turned around so basicaly you will have the input wires pointing to the output wires insted of a normal CAT5 which wound means you have the input wires pointing to each other so if you have a crimping tool and some spare plugs work away, if not just buy a cross-over cable

Calman

I put the plugs side by side and the wires are in different positions on each connector- so it looks like it is a crossover cable. The only X I see on the cable is where is says "24AWGx4P". So assuming the cables right what the f**k am I doing wrong? I followed all the instructions above. ????

Calman

Had a development- I was trying to network 2 PCs as above, 1 is a 98se(a laptop if that makes a difference?) the other is a 95osr2 machine. Couldn't get a ping with them either way. Both have 10Mb cards.

My brother has a ME machine and a 10/100Mb card. Tried to ping my 98se machine from the ME and vice versa and didn't work.
Then connected the cat5 to the 95 machine and pinged from the ME and it worked!! I think this proves the cable is fine?? But it didn't work pinging from the 95 to the ME
So any suggestions- I'm stumped?

moist

Hmm... So you can ping the 95 machine from ME
but you can't ping the 98 machine from either.
At a guess I'd say a config or driver problem with
the 98 machine.
Check that you have the correct driver and that you
are not having any conflicts or anything.
Also double check all the configs again
I'm always great for typo's I am

Also are you getting link lights on the NICS ?
When you plug in the crossover you should get
a little green light on both cards (sometimes its
amber when a 10/100 is just using 10m )
and then when you start pinging another light
should start blinking on both machines.

As a matter of interest what does the 98 machine
say when you try to ping 95 or ME ?
*tries to remember windows error messages*
"No Route To Host" or "Host Is Down" ??

Yeah the cable should be fine, was it a pre-made
and packaged cable or did he make it up for you, if he did
did he test it afterwards ?
Sometimes a dodgey connection can cause problems
though usually with 100m or gigabit.

moist

Originally posted by chernobyl
Both computers have to have the same "Workgroup" name, just get the properties of "My Computer" and then the tab "computer name" and there you can change it.

Thats just mad ted!

What if you want to network with a non windows OS ??

Or are you just talking about brousing/mapping shares
off another machine, NetBios/Bui (can never remember which )

Calman

Yea I can ping the 95 machine from the ME but can't ping the ME from the 95. Can't ping to or from the 98 machine and repeating myself can only ping to the 95 machine from the ME. The drivers seem fine and no apparent conflicts in device manager. The ping error I get on the 95 and 98 machines are:
(hope the .bmp appears here)

The cable was premade I think. The only protocols I have installed are tcp/ip for the nic and the dial up adapter. In the image I changed the ip when pinging the 98 machine from the 95.

Calman

[IMG]c:\windows.000\desktop\ping.bmp[/IMG]
better work this time! :mad:

Calman

Sorry that last statement wasn't very clear- I meant when I pinged the 98 machine from the 95 I changed the ip address to 192.168.0.1 of course. The error (image above) was the same on both machines when I tried to ping.

moist

Originally posted by Calman
Yea I can ping the 95 machine from the ME but can't ping the ME from the 95.

Eh, thats a bit mad!!
*wonders if ME could be lying*

Are you getting any link lights ?

What happens if you connect the cable the other way around ?
i.e. connect the end that is in the ME machine into the 95 machine.

Are you getting the MAC address of the other machine listed in ' arp -a ' ?
(need to do this within 30 seconds after pinging...)
i.e.

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>arp -a

Interface: 192.168.1.5 on Interface 0x1000002
Internet Address Physical Address Type
192.168.1.1 00-c0-df-ed-78-a9 dynamic

Thats on a machine with an IP of ...1.5 after pinging ...1.1

I suppose you could paste the output of ' ipconfig /all ' (or whatever ME's version is...) from both machines.

ala...

C:\WINDOWS\Desktop>ipconfig /all

Windows 98 IP Configuration

Host Name . . . . . . . . . : mooladh.internal
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
194.125.133.10
217.78.0.11
Node Type . . . . . . . . . : Broadcast
NetBIOS Scope ID. . . . . . :
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . : No
NetBIOS Resolution Uses DNS : Yes

0 Ethernet adapter :

Description . . . . . . . . : Realtek RTL8029(AS) Ethernet Adapt
Physical Address. . . . . . : 00-20-18-57-C8-4D
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
IP Address. . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.5
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
Primary WINS Server . . . . :
Secondary WINS Server . . . :
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . :
Lease Expires . . . . . . . :

This really is proving _far_ more difficult than it should be.

moist

Originally posted by Calman
I set TCP/IP -> 3 Com Ethernet (whatever version)
to 192.168.2.1 on the 98SE machine and 192.168.1.1 on the '95OSR2 machine-

Ooh I just noticed this....
Those two IP's are in different networks (assuming a netmask of
255.255.255.0)
They will not be able to talk to each other.

The first 3 numbers should be the same, i.e. 192.168.1 (say) then
you change the last number on each machine
i.e.

192.168.1.1
and
192.168.1.2

On the otherhand you could change the netmask to 255.255.0.0
so that all 192.168.*.* IP's will be
in the same network, but lets not get into that just at the moment


Oh, btw, we can't see that Image as it is just point at a file on your local disk
(c:\windows.000\desktop\ping.bmp) which is not on our local hard disks.
You could get yourself some boards.ie web space (that still available??)
upload it to there and add <img>http://www.boards.ie/members/calman/ping.bmp<
/img>

Calman

"I set TCP/IP -> 3 Com Ethernet (whatever version)
to 192.168.2.1 on the 98SE machine and 192.168.1.1 on the '95OSR2 machine- "
I think that was just a typo. The ip addresses are grand now anyway. Yea there was link lights when the 95 was connected to the ME machine, I think it was tellin' the truth about the ping
You're right, it's proving far more difficult that it should be...

Calman

Checked out this website and it said:

"10BaseT Cabling
When using 10BaseT cabling, you must use a hub--even if you're only networking 2 PCs together. Many first time networkers forego a hub and simply plug a 10BaseT cable between two PCs' network cards. Such an installation is guaranteed to either (1) not work, or (2) be unreliable."

Maybe I should buy a hub?

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by Calman
Checked out this website and it said:

"10BaseT Cabling
When using 10BaseT cabling, you must use a hub--even if you're only networking 2 PCs together. Many first time networkers forego a hub and simply plug a 10BaseT cable between two PCs' network cards. Such an installation is guaranteed to either (1) not work, or (2) be unreliable."

Maybe I should buy a hub?

no. you dont need a hub.
crossover cable is just a trick to make the pcs think that they area llowed to talk and listen when they shouldnt be.
im not too sure why you are having such problems as this should be straight forward.
try uninstalling each netcard again and reinstall and then just set up your stuff again
ie. ip adress 123.123.123.1 and 123.123.123.2 s/n mask 255.255.255.0
and just make sure both are on workgroup 'WinMEBlows' and make sure fine and print sharing are on under your network properties.
otherwise invest in a small 10mg hub. you should be able to pick one up for 30 quid and they are quiet handy. of course, then youll have to go and by some proper cat5 cable then

po0k

In the network identification tab everything shold be in capitals. The Computer NAME and the Computer Description should be the exact same, with the Workgroup the same in both machines.

For IPX/SPX set the frame type to 802.3 (10BaseT - what you've got)
If you ever have to use coaxial cable (BNC - like your telly) you set it to 802.2 (10Base2)

You'll have to restart both machines after you connect them, just another 'feature' of windoze.

Install NetBEUI too.
Along with your network cards you got some disks right?
Have a look in them for anysort of setup (not driver install though) programs. Could be some very handy and hence important configuration utilities there.

for a cross over cable the pins should go like this.

A: B:
pin1 -> pin3
pin2 -> pin6
pin3 -> pin1
pin6 -> pin2

Now go down to that muppet in the store and bang his head repeatedly off the desk. Such people shouldn't be allowed cause so much distress and convey such baltent misinformation to any one person.

Just another tech support dropout........
Hope it works.

BTW, could you post what sort of cards you have?
Model numbers on the big chip on each and type of conenctors at the backplate....

Calman

The NIC on the Win'95 machine is a
"3com Etherlink pci combo nic (3c900-combo) 10Mb" with coax, rj45 and rs232 connectors.
The NIC on the '98 machine is a 3com PCMCIA 10Mb aswell. Not sure of the actual model as I'm not at home at the moment.
I'll try what ye suggested later on- cheers.

Calman

Ok I think I pinged the 95 machine from the 98 successfully! Check out this image of the ping- let me know if u can see it or not. Trouble is it didn't work again but anway here it is....

Calman

Think it should be uploaded now

Calman

Ok I got the 95 and ME machines to connect fine
I can't get the 98 (laptop) to connect to either the 95 or ME.
This tells me that it's either:
1. The adapter that goes from the PCMCIA network card to the cat 5
2. The network- which I don't think it is because it's looks fine under device manager and the network card logon comes up every time the computer is turned on.
3. The drivers- which I really don't think as I reinstalled the device.

So I think I'll buy a new adapter for the pcmcia net card. Anyone know how much? Any other suggestions or diagnostics I could try?