New Strategy

Cyphide

Forgive me, cos Im new to all this (Ive been looking for broadband for the last 2 years, but I havent been activly involved) but, heres an idea (probably been done too, but here goes).
How successful was the blackout idea?
I propose that IrelandOffline mails all its members and gives them a simple email to forward on to eircom's customer support team.
Somthing simple, maybe even threatening another blackout around christmas.
All with the same header.I think I remember hearing that the blackout thing was fairly successful, and if we could get as many people as participated in that, into this, then it might just cause some impact.
Imagine Eircom seeing 500 emails coming in all with the subject
'We DEMAND DSL NOW!' (or whatever...)
And your name, email address and message of dissatisfaction with the sitation in the body.
And since its such a simple course of action, I reckon you'll get a lot more people who will readily take this kind of action over a blackout (I mean, its hard to really expect a buisness to go offline for the day, the internet, however badly we may have it, is still very important to a buisness)
Anyway, just a thought, anyone interested??

logic1

I think this kind of action has already been discussed and even suggested as an alternative to the non-threathening form of the blackout.

One thing which is universal in todays internet society is the awareness of mailicious mail, viruses, spam and hack attempts be it DoS or exploits etc...

All of these things are seen as acts of cyber-terrorism to a certain degree.

IOFFL certainly doesn't need to be branded as a group of script kiddies mail bombing Eircom at the moment.
One bad move could ruin all the good press received over the last few months.

I certainly could see a mailing of this sort prompting Eircom to publicise in every paper and broadcast it can that it has been the subject of a "hack attack" or "mail DoS" by the Ireland Offline group.

Personally I think maybe a signed petition would do alot more good than an e-mail campaign.

.logic.

Cyphide

I thought about that myself, but they cant really do anything if each of us send ONE mail each can they??
I mean, we all have the right to send email!
It would be a DoS attack (or any sort of attack for that matter), Im sure thier servers handle a VERY large volume of mail on a daily basis as it is, so I dont think they'll see this as too much of a threatening action.
But anyway, doesnt matter, just a suggestion

yellum

I would be against something like this as they have a grand excuse. "Sorry we can't help you as we are under attack by some peeved off users "

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Cyphide
It would be a DoS attack (or any sort of attack for that matter), Im sure thier servers handle a VERY large volume of mail on a daily basis as it is, so I dont think they'll see this as too much of a threatening action.

Anything that could even be perceived as, or spun into, a DoS attack should be avoided, IMHO. There are people out there, whose interests are opposed to ours, who would just love for IrelandOffline to go down that route.

Cyphide

Agreed actually
Ahh well, just a suggestion (sitting here in fas in loughlinstown bored out of my skull! )
I just got off the phone to eircom myself, Im in Dublin 4, ballsbridge/sandymount (bath ave) and my exchange (beggars bush) is updated but my line failed the test, bastards!!!
My heart was ****in racing on the phone cos he said 'I think you may be a lucky man' while he was waiting for the results!!
Anyone know of anything that can be done to the line to make it any better? He said the problem seems to be at my end since I live so close to the exchange.
Probably true tho, cos Ive done some feckin around with that phone line over the years!!

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Cyphide
Anyone know of anything that can be done to the line to make it any better? He said the problem seems to be at my end since I live so close to the exchange.
Probably true tho, cos Ive done some feckin around with that phone line over the years!!

Try and get it back the way it was before the alterations and have just ordinary phone attached to the original entry point then try again. I'm not sure whether one phone or

Of course it is just as likely to be a bad line. Distance is not the only factor.

It might be worth expressing interest in the eventual product rather than the test just in case they have enough people on the test for that exchange and are not letting on. Then try for the test.

Also, ask the question on the Net/Comms board. Some of the people there might have some more suggestions.

Fooger

(sitting here in fas in loughlinstown bored out of my skull! )

lol
i was in loughlinstown too and thought the same thing, do what i did and bring in a copy of half-life

Dustaz

Ring up again and ask for another line test. Dont let on youve had one before. This worked for at least one other person on these forums that ive seen. No harm in trying eh?:)

dahamsta

I doubt there's anything illegal about this Boston, and I doubt there's anything Eircom could do legally to stop it. Most likely they would simply filter mail coming into the Eircom mail servers and send it to /dev/null... and start calling IO "militant" or somesuch. It's a bad idea, but there's no need to start calling people "stupid". Cyphide was just making a suggestion.

adam

Baz_

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
Probably the stupidest think ive ever heard, despite the fact ive heard it before. dont be stupid, eircom woudl track you down in about 5 secounds and take you for all your worth.

Thats a bit strong. Are you referring to Dustaz, I mean the man said that he knows of at least one person who it worked for.

If youre talking about the mail thing, then it is still a bit strong as the suggester has removed the backing of his suggestion, he was thinking of alternatives.

Boston

the mail thing is spam, and could get us branded as a pack of ****, but a las if its done right ive no problem.the DoS attack may not be fully illegal(irelands really a heaven for this stuff) but im sure if you did manage to do damge they would be happy to sue your ass and probably our ass for allowing you to organize this type of thing. this is what pisses me off, boards.ie was a victium of a dos attack, in fact more then one, i dislike anybody that resorts to this level of stupidity.

Does no body find this extremely offencive?

to me its just proving ever crackpot that called us a bunch of immature little ****s to be ignored and not paid attention to, right.

This crap will not gain us the respect of the people we need it from and will not recruit the people we want to help us.
as you know eircom browse this board and we wont get very far in anything if they and others decide to stonewall us.

bigdaddyfix

at the core, it's actually very goode idea. The problems come in because of the ease of turning it into negative PR for IO.

Write a letter. Send itin the post to your elected officials, the local newspaper and to Eircom. It might not have much effect if you are the lone crackpot doing it, but if each of those sources started getting even ONE letter from everyone on the IO lists, don't doubt for a second that they would take some notice.

Imagine the notice if they received 1 letter a week, or a month, or whatever. Most people don't speak out, except in closed spaces where they want attention from others around them who agree with them.

Has anyone here written to their reps? I haven't, I'll admit. I'd bet Adam has, but let's hope he left off his newly acquired nickname...

I still don't think we have much leverage with Eircom directly. If I have decided I don't want to sell coffee in my restaurant, no number of people asking for it will make me change my mind, I *know* people want it, and I still chose no. They have that right, as long as they stay within the law...

dahamsta

Boston, unless I'm gone blind, Cyphide wasn't suggesting a DoS attack, and the suggestion that a few hundred, or even a few thousand emails to Eircom would deny service to them is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing an initiative like Cyphide suggests could be considered is spam. A DoS attack is something completely different, by definition. Eircom is an incumbent telecommunications operator controlling a fair portion of the bandwidth in Ireland, we couldn't DoS them if we tried.

And we never will, because, in case I haven't been clear about this, *any* form of activity what would be disruptive to Eircom or any other party involved in this is not acceptable to IrelandOffline. We will distance ourselves from anybody that gets involved in that kind of behaviour, and revoke their membership. That's *not* how we do things in IrelandOffline.

Sending letters, or even personal emails, is a different thing entirely. We have a right to complain about what we're being forced to accept in Ireland, against our will. At this stage, I believe we have a duty to do that.

adam

Dustaz

One thing that really annoys me is this attidude that somehow eircom owe the people of Ireland something and its all thier fault that we are in the situation we are in.

Eircom are a business like any other. They happen to have a monopoly and are taking full advantage of it. They are doing nothing illegal at the moment.

The people that are really standing in the way of development are the Government. They privatised eircoms infrastructure with no thought of how it would affect LLU and have now allowed it to become a company with no shareholders to answer too (well, not public ones anyway.)

The Government are the people that have it in thier power to MAKE eircom offer better deals, increase competition and roll out new services. The Government are the ones dragging thier feet over the communications bill. The Government are the ones who can sort this mess out.

Eircoms attidude and policies annoys the hell out of me as much as anyone else, but I know they arent going to change unless they are forced. As much as I hate to say it, Ireland Offline arent the ones to do it, They MUST be forced by the government.

Events like the seminar and the blackout are great because they raise awareness and generate publicity (possibly even making this an election issue? i know ill be telling that to the politicos that knock on my door). I doubt though that they will make Eircom turn around and say "Damn, weve been mean! Sorry! Broadband and Flat Rate for all!".

Ditto to letter writing. If your going to write letters of complaint, write them to your TD, The Press, the ODTR or even members of the cabinet. Save yourself the price of a stamp and dont bother sending it to eircom, it will probably end up in the wastepaper bin.


So to close, Sure everyones frustrated with eircom, but theyre aint nothing they are going to do about it.
1. I dislike eircom as much as the next person
2. I fully support Ireland Offline and think the events so far were a great sucess and long may they continue

billy the squid

Although your intentions are good everyone e-mailing them would not work for two reasons

1. They would perceive it as the beginnings of a Denial of Service attack

2. If they were to open their inbox and see 100 or so emails with the same subject line they would just do control and A and delete them with out reading I do it every day with hotmail

But although sending multiple e-mails might be misinterpreted as an attach why not have everyone send their phone bill

something like what that guy "ming" did with the hash but with phone bills send them all to the dail or something like that

Cyphide

Jesus, relax people, only a mere suggestion, I was trying to start a war or anything!
I never intended any sort of DoS attack in the first place!!
Just a personal email, therfore, it cant be classed as spam (definition : junk mail) and it cant be classed as an attack as such, cos its only 1 mail per person.
Anyway, doesnt ****in matter, it was just a suggestion, if Im wrong, then forget about it.
Ive noticed from reading past posts on this board that its fairly hard to create a topic here without someone or other taking offence!

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Dont take offence Cyphide. Your intentions are well meaning, but I think the form in which you have proposed assistance is wide open to abuse by indivduals who are irresponsible. Realistically up this point in time IrelandOffline has distanced ourselves from such forms of protest and dont want to give a carte blanc for muppets to act on "our behalf". The group recently came under attack from such a DoS attack and would not wish it on anyone else. That is why mass e-mailing is something that is very difficult organise for a large membership and thus at this point in time is not advised.

Dont lose heart w/ the camapign because some ppl think badly of a suggestion you made. Thats life! So please stick around and contribute- all hands to the pump are appreciated:)

Boston

Originally posted by dahamsta
Boston, unless I'm gone blind, Cyphide wasn't suggesting a DoS attack, and the suggestion that a few hundred, or even a few thousand emails to Eircom would deny service to them is absolutely ludicrous. The only thing an initiative like Cyphide suggests could be considered is spam. A DoS attack is something completely different, by definition. Eircom is an incumbent telecommunications operator controlling a fair portion of the bandwidth in Ireland, we couldn't DoS them if we tried.



adam

Originally posted by Cyphide


It would be a DoS attack

dahamsta

Ok, fine, I'm blind, and I apologise. My comments and the point I was actually making stand though.

adam

Cyphide

****, that was a mistake!
****, didnt mean to type that, seriously, I meant wouldn't!!
Flame deserved
My mistake, sorry!!

disConnected

Well, what shall I say??? I can't believe it!!!

Here's a new member with a good and valid idea. Some people here then argued very calmly and with good arguments why the idea is not feasible. The message was understood and there were no bad feelings.

Now, instead of stopping here some people just dragged the discussion on with personal attacks against other members...
Guys what are we doing here? I thought we are group that works together to achieve the goals as outlined on the IOFFl web-site. Instead of doing this we go on bickering around about something that has been solved ages ago and start personal attack campaigns.
And by doing so we shoo off new members that would be welcome additions to our group.
Now, next time you're going to post something please switch on the brains and read again what you typed before hitting that 'submit reply' button or go back to kindergarden....

disConnected

logic1

I couldn't agree more with disConnected.

I'm not going to pull any punches here, Boston you seem to have a problem with everyone that posts.

What IOFFL need is more and more support and more people like Cyphide who will come along, take a look at the situation from a new perspective and come up with fresh ideas.

Anytime I see a perfectly reasonable post up here you seem to jump in branding people as idiots and morons and generally being as obnoxious as possible.

If I was part of any oganization you're exactly the type of vulgar, abusive kid I'd be trying to distance myself from.

You're going to have to accept that people have differing opinions and what keeps any pressure group running is a constant influx of new people and ideas. 90% of the ideas may not be feasible but this should be explained in a clear concise manner and both sides of the argument should be looked at. What isn't needed is people like yourself to come running in calling people whatever insult is in your book of bad words for that day and throwing about ludicrous theories about how Eircom will hunt you down.

A little bit of "thought befoe typing" is all that's needed.

That's all I have to say. You needn't flame this thread as your prone to do I'm eally not interested in a reply.

To Cyphide it was a perfectly reasonable suggestion and if you have any more don't hesitate to bring them up. Don't let people put you off posting suggestions whatever they may be.

.logic.

Dustaz

G'wan Logic And Dont Ignore Anything Too Obviously Reminiscant

Boston

Originally posted by logic1
I couldn't agree more with disConnected.

I'm not going to pull any punches here, Boston you seem to have a problem with everyone that posts.

Name two,

This guy talked about a dos attacks, he later retracted those comments, thats all well and good.

i hate script kiddies with a passion. ill give no quarter in my response to them. with in light turned out not to be what he was talking about. ive allready talked to dahamsta about this, he said fair enough but i was to strong. end of story.


Now as for your other comments, maybe your right, im far for perfect, maybe if you pointed out to me when i am going over board on something i could fix the problem, but its to late to come back to me now about things weeks all.

MarcusGarvey

Lol Dustaz, good one.

I agree with your previous point. Eircom is a company who are out to peserve their monopoly, every other company would strive for the same thing. The government made a very expensive mistake and need to rectify it.

The seminar was great and all and Mary thought we were great doing what we were doing, yet the communications bill was stalled. Whats up with that ?

Disconnected: I agree with you too. Cyphides contributions should be welcomed and his ideas examined and weighed up. Unfortunately I think the idea of spamming Eircon would be used against IrelandOffline by Eircons pr people.

Dahamsta it would not actually be a DOS and Eircom may never suffer from one but I would guarantee that they'd still call it one and the press would pick up on it.

PiE

When Cyphide typed "would" instead of "wouldn't" it was blatantly f*cking obvious it was a typo, if you just read the whole damn sentence.

Boston

a i see, your one those 'yes means no and no means yes people'