Was it wrong for Quinn to call FF "Ba$tards"....

gandalf

....and should he apologise to them.

Well imho fair play to him, he's just saying exactly what the rest of us are thinking.

Heres a link to the article.

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2001/1211/fro3.htm

Gandalf.

TwoShedsJackson

Of course he shouldn't apologise to them: I suppose FF are expecting us to believe that none of them has ever cursed in their lives :rolleyes:

What about St. Haughey in his 1984 Hot Press interview saying 'I can instance a load of fuckers whose throats I'd cut and push off a cliff'??

dahamsta

He shouldn't apologise, because it's not good politics, but he shouldn't have said it in the first place, at least not somewhere he could be quoted on it. That's not good politics either, so who knows what will happen. God, Labour are a pathetic example of a party at the moment, aren't they?

adam

gandalf

Originally posted by dahamsta
.....God, Labour are a pathetic example of a party at the moment, aren't they?

adam

Well they are nowhere near as pathetic as Fianna Fail, Fianna Gael or the PD's.

Gandalf.

Aspro

I'd say they're even more pathetic. The Labour Party are the most hypocritical two-faced 'bastards' you're likely to come across. Why? Because despite the rhetoric they'll jump at the chance to be in government with FF after the next election.

It's all the same smokescreen again. In 1992 Labour had their highest level of support ever winning 32 seats because they castigated FF, Haughey, Reynolds et al (sound familiar).

Then they go into government with them at the next opportunity, which decimated their support in the last general election and unfortunately paved the way for the Shinners increased support in the South. I'm glad we were expelled back in the Eighties.

gandalf

Yep Aspro that was a major mistake by them back in 1992. I know I was canvessing on the doorsteps for them and it was apparent to every1 that people wanted FF out. When they went into Government with them I left the party.

However I believe that Labour did alot of good in Government and the Rainbow Coalition laid the foundations of the Celtic Tiger economy that FF and the PDs squandered.

The fact that this government is been held over a barrel by 4 individuals is PATHETIC ! The fact that abortion is been rolled out again is PATHETIC ! THe fact that someone called FF exactly what they are is far from PATHETIC its refreshing !!!

Gandalf.

dahamsta

It /is/ refreshing to see FF called exactly what they are, but it's a cheap shot. It's such a transparent cheap shot, it's pathetic.

adam

swiss

Ah, once again this reaches into the echelons of what is deemed "Politically Correct". Ruaraí Quinn may have undertaken an ill - advised course of action by being allowing himself to be reported to be in a situation where he could slur another political party.

It seems that Politics has become enveloped in an air of 'sanitised' views, that politicians are deemed above what the rest of the population practice with gusto. Frankly, I think that his opinion was refreshing in its forthrightness. Whether you agree or disagree with his view, it's crudeness does increase it's impact - especially with an election looming.

Consider - if he had stated something relatively bland, but which brought his view across that FF were unsuited to running this country and responsible for squandering state resources during it's term in office (which I believe was the main thrust of his argument when he described FF as 'bastards') then there would not be such controversy, on which political parties thrive - even if it is such a dangerous minefield that has toppled governments and parties.

What I thought was far worse than a ubiquitous comment that ruffled the moral sensibilities of a party that has garnered the reputation of 'seeing no evil' and 'hearing no evil' was the comment by Tom Gildea when he made an industrial strength accusation against Nora Owen. This is the type of political mud - slinging that must be eliminated, not Ruaraí Quinn's comment that was pounced upon solely for the prospect of political gain.

Aspro

Lads and lassies, don't be under the illusions that Quinn just let it slip out and now there's a "controversy" because it was reported. This was MEANT to happen. It's just another prime example of SPIN replacing genuine issues in politics.

There is such a lack of substance in any of the establishment parties that they have to engineer these little tit-bits of news so that joe public pay any attention.

Labour have no ideological differences with FF, FG or PDs so they have to resort to personal insults now to stand apart. It's pathetic. It's like the worst of British tabloid journalist politics or the fiasco that was the US presidential election.

The real issues are ignored so SPIN takes the wheel. Gimme a break.

dahamsta

Lads and lassies, don't be under the illusions that Quinn just let it slip out and now there's a "controversy" because it was reported. This was MEANT to happen. It's just another prime example of SPIN replacing genuine issues in politics.

Exactly! It's a cheap shot. If that's the best Ho Chi can do to get his name in the papers, he and his party don't deserve any more seats that they already have. If he really wants to get in the papers, and he wants people to respect him, there are plenty of controversial things to speak up about, such as Ireland's rapidly disappearing neutrality, or the shameful overreaction to terrorism, etc. If the best he can do is calling FF baxtids, he can look elsewhere for votes.

adam

Digi_Tilmitt

Originally posted by gandalf


Well they are nowhere near as pathetic as Fianna Fail, Fianna Gael or the PD's.

Gandalf.

It's strange, alot of people on boards see FF FG and the PD's as the corrupt evil tings that they are but this is not reflected in the elections. Are the people on boards smarter then the average weak minded person?

Oh and I think it was good that he said it.

Sand

Fianna Fail are no more corrupt than any other party imo. They are no more deserving of being called bastards than any other party imo. All Ruari Quinn did was get himself reported as "The peoples champion" , ready to get those "bastards" out- now thats fighting talk= pathetic level of debate in modern irish politics.

There is very little difference between FF and FG and Labour idealogially. PDs are the best party imo, but theyre simply too small to be worth voting for so a vote for them is a vote wasted. I pretend no likeing for FF overall, but id rather have Michael McCreevy in office than one of Labours "I dont know nuthin about eko-nom-iks, but i shure know how to buy votes with populist spending!!!!-da lightswitch?" ministers in charge of the public finances. As such Im happiliy benefitted by the fact that the aforementioned McCreevy is my local TD- \0/.

gandalf

Originally posted by Sand
Fianna Fail are no more corrupt than any other party imo. They are no more deserving of being called bastards than any other party imo. All Ruari Quinn did was get himself reported as "The peoples champion" , ready to get those "bastards" out- now thats fighting talk= pathetic level of debate in modern irish politics.

So you obviously haven't been following the tribunials then. Most of the dodgy politicians there are FF with FG coming in a bad 2nd in the corruption stakes.

Well if you want to talk about pathetic level of debate just look back at the Nice referendum. The Government and all the major political parties expected us to vote yes just because they told us to.

There is very little difference between FF and FG and Labour idealogially. PDs are the best party imo, but theyre simply too small to be worth voting for so a vote for them is a vote wasted. I pretend no likeing for FF overall, but id rather have Michael McCreevy in office than one of Labours "I dont know nuthin about eko-nom-iks, but i shure know how to buy votes with populist spending!!!!-da lightswitch?" ministers in charge of the public finances. As such Im happiliy benefitted by the fact that the aforementioned McCreevy is my local TD- \0/.

Yep all the parties are moving towards the centre, but this is the same for most of the democratic world. The main difference is the level of corruption associated with each one, FF are filthy, FG have some people with questions over them, Labour seem to be fairly clean.

I see your local TD has made such a great impression on you that you have gotten his name wrong, our current Minister of Finance and the member for Kildare North is Charlie McCreevy. As regards your comment on buying votes you didn't obviously see the last 2 budgets Mr. McCreevy submitted. The previous Minister for Finance laid the foundations that Mr. McCreevy and company inherited.

Gandalf.

m1ke

ideoloically there is no difference between FF or FG - except on backward civil war issues from the foundation of the state that have no relevance to the world we live in today. Both those partys are a pack of Ba$tards and fair play to Quinn for speaking the truth - maybe he was a little vulgar but it's how most people characterize (a) party(s) that have **** on them in the past, and **** on the Irish public. Ideologically Labour provides an alternative to FF, FG and the PDs provide a right wing, re-hashing of FF and FG on a smaller scale that if was enlarged would just be the same So to anyone who is saying Labour is the same as all the other partys... get yer facts straight, its a load of b0llix.

bonkey

Originally posted by m1ke
So to anyone who is saying Labour is the same as all the other partys... get yer facts straight, its a load of b0llix.

Its not a matter of facts to get straight, its a matter of perspective and opinion....so be a bit more temperate about it.

jc

Sand

Originally posted by gandalf


I see your local TD has made such a great impression on you that you have gotten his name wrong, our current Minister of Finance and the member for Kildare North is Charlie McCreevy. As regards your comment on buying votes you didn't obviously see the last 2 budgets Mr. McCreevy submitted. The previous Minister for Finance laid the foundations that Mr. McCreevy and company inherited.

Gandalf.

LOL, doh. All i can say is I was just back from the pub annnnd sue me:)
Ill think you find the foundations of the Celtic Tiger go as far back as the late 80s when it became apparent that *shock-horror* cutbacks had to be made for the good of the economy (very unsocialist of them, whatever happened to keynes?) . Indeed the Celtic Tiger was "delayed" by Germanys unification, and the chaos which that sowed with EU currencies.

Most of the dodgy politicians there are FF with FG coming in a bad 2nd in the corruption stakes.

Oh well thats okay then. As long as FF have more corrupt politicians than FG do, then FG must be the good guys in this whole thing. I find the whole corruption tribunals a waste of time, Ive yet to see anyone do any serious time (Lawlors holidays do not count- he should have got several years for pissing in the face of the justice system imo)

So to anyone who is saying Labour is the same as all the other partys... get yer facts straight, its a load of b0llix.

Your right actually... Labour is even less appealing than FG who at least can be counted on to not make a complete mess of things. FF arent a satisfactory choice (A Finance minister as qualified as McCreevy goes a long way imo- the other fools can just demonstrate why semi -state companies are a bad idea, Aer Lingus anybody? ) but until the PDs grow to a size where they can be counted on to have a significant say, theyll have to do to keep the (Insert-Rabble-Rousing-Swearing-Here) out of office.

gandalf

Originally posted by Sand

Oh well thats okay then. As long as FF have more corrupt politicians than FG do, then FG must be the good guys in this whole thing. I find the whole corruption tribunals a waste of time, Ive yet to see anyone do any serious time (Lawlors holidays do not count- he should have got several years for pissing in the face of the justice system imo)

Well I'm just stating a fact that FF have had more members unmasked as corrupt. So you think that the tribunials are a waste of time, what would your alternative be sweep all the dirt under a mat ?? Infact no-one is coming out as good guys in this mess, politics in Ireland is the big looser.

Your right about one thing, heads need to roll or the tribunials will have damaged politics in this country even more. Lawlor should just be locked up full stop for his arrogant refusal to co-operate with the tribunial, one week is not enough, he should be put in for a month at least this time.

Your right actually... Labour is even less appealing than FG who at least can be counted on to not make a complete mess of things. FF arent a satisfactory choice (A Finance minister as qualified as McCreevy goes a long way imo- the other fools can just demonstrate why semi -state companies are a bad idea, Aer Lingus anybody? ) but until the PDs grow to a size where they can be counted on to have a significant say, theyll have to do to keep the (Insert-Rabble-Rousing-Swearing-Here) out of office.

Well it looks as if you have a problem with Labour. Personally I think they are the best party out there at the moment (but I am biased and I admit that).

I will say that FF have some good people but most of the party is made up of the "civil war type inherited the seat from daddy" brigade. As for FG their leader has the carisma of a dung-heap and whatever message they are trying to get across to the Irish electorate is silent, they are basically a mess. The PD's are not going to win any more seats, I do think that Harney & Liz O'Donnell are good but they can do the country a favour and rejoin FF (because that is basically what they are, mini-FF).

The big winners in the next election imho will probably be Sinn Fein and that fills me with fear. The though of the Sinners dictating Irish policy really is not a pleasant one and judging by the way Bertie & Co have bent over for the Independents that is on the cards again.

Gandalf.