Liam Lawlor - should he be expelled from the Dail

gandalf

Looks like Mr. Lawlor is going to be spending some more time in the Mountjoy Leisure Resort. Should he be now expelled from the Dail now as he has not obviously given the Flood Tribunial the details that they require.

Personally I am of the opinion that he should be removed. Letting something like this drag on is casting more doubt over the already dubvious reputation that politics has in this country. If the same thing happened in the UK the MP would have resigned by now.

It looks like Irish Politicians have necks as hard as Jockeys Bollix !!

Gandalf.

Lemming

Absolutely .. he's been shown up as a disgrace to Irish politics, and its an unmerciful display of contempt for the voting public that a) he has NOT resigned, and b) not been expelled by the party!

Has he been convicted of anything yet, or is he just being tossed in jail again for contempt??

mike65

Incredibly its not possible under the rules of the House
to expell Liam Lawless, I wonder why they forgot to
enable appropriate legistation?

Mike.

swiss

Without question

One can always argue that a politicians personal business is his own, and should not impact on his suitability as a politician. I think this view is absolute rubbish. I believe that a politician must expect some of his personal affairs, especially those that can lead to a conflict of interest with his political affairs to be subject to public scrutiny.

Members of the public have a right to expect a standard of moral and ethical behaviour from the representatives which they choose to represent them. I believe that they also have the right to take reasonable measures to 'keep tabs' on politicians - to bring a sense of democratic accountability to a responsible position.

Liam Lawlor, by giving a proverbial 'two fingers up' to the Tribunals of Enquiry which the Dáil set up has spurned the very institutions which his colleagues set up in order to restore confidence in the institution of government.

This, coupled with the fact that he appears completely nonplussed in relation to peoples attitudes in relation to the tenability of his position has greatly undermined his stature as a politician. All I can really say is "Go Liam, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out"

Boston

yep, kicked out and jailed

Sand

Liam Lawlor should be jailed imo. But (theres always a but) people are allowed to elect whoever they want- even a conniving, shameless scumbag like Lawlor. Any legislation regarding removing a politician with regards to dubious behaviour might be open to partisan abuse. Best thing would be for the politician in question to face the public once more in an election and see if he he still meets with their standards. Sadly for us who believe in certain standards, Irish people seem to adhere to the "cute whoor" mentality.

Chaos-Engine

Vote for Liam Lawlor if you love FF and their corruption....
Vote FF out for democracy

Bard

Absolutely YES.

He is wasting the Dail's time constantly.

He can hardly fulfill the responsibilities of his post as a TD if he's in court or jail half the time, can he?

Kick him out! He brings shame to the government of which he's supposed to be serving as an active member, shame to his country and shame to himself.

GoneShootin

chained to the gates outside the Dail and pelted with rotten fruit and wat not by passer by's

Coyote

what i love is that if you want to work for the gov then you need a clear tax from from the tax department to say you owe no tax, seems like TD's can get work for the gov even when they owe large amounts of tax.
so why are they getting payed ? i do not mind them doing there job but they should not not be payed (like anyone going for goverment work) if they owe tax

m1ke

kick him out, jail him.... and update the legislation to keep convicted criminals out of parliament (I can understand why the archaic legislation allows him to sit in the dail, what with most dail members being in the IRA when it was founded but a change is a little over due). And on the other hand I can see why nothing will be changed until after a general election, because FF need his vote with their minority government.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by Chaos-Engine
Vote for Liam Lawlor if you love FF and their corruption....
Vote FF out for democracy

and replaced by whom?

is there actually a political party in ireland that can do the job?
i mean seriously.
irish politics is a sham.
its a bout backhanders and backscratching.
very rarely have i seen anything given freely for the better of ireland.
there is always a land zone change, or someone invests money in a dodgey petfood company type plan that comes out 2 years down the line.
and the boys laugh it off, say sorry, and life continues as corrupt as ever. personally it would be a happy day in whitewashland when they are all taken out and shot.
twice.

Boston

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


and replaced by whom?

is there actually a political party in ireland that can do the job?
i mean seriously.
irish politics is a sham.
its a bout backhanders and backscratching.
very rarely have i seen anything given freely for the better of ireland.
there is always a land zone change, or someone invests money in a dodgey petfood company type plan that comes out 2 years down the line.
and the boys laugh it off, say sorry, and life continues as corrupt as ever. personally it would be a happy day in whitewashland when they are all taken out and shot.
twice.

i dont think you being very fair, their are plenty of politions that break their back for their area and earn feic all money for it.

but us the people never pay attention, its people like you that give the impression that your vote doesnt matter, which means that if ordinary people like you wont vote for anybody, he does that leave electing the leaders of the country.

Sand

Whats interesting is the possibility that low voter turnouts can be seen to undermine the validity of the government. There isnt much of an alternative to FF seeing as they seem to have the most realistic economic policy- however their corruption is a maor turn off to many, myself included. The result will probably be apathy amongst most people who feel theyre each as worse as the other. Sadly politics has stopped being about idealogy and more about getting into power by offering everything and the kitchen sink to the voters, paid for of course by the voters- greatest con trick in history imo.

WhiteWashMan

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»


i dont think you being very fair, their are plenty of politions that break their back for their area and earn feic all money for it.

but us the people never pay attention, its people like you that give the impression that your vote doesnt matter, which means that if ordinary people like you wont vote for anybody, he does that leave electing the leaders of the country.

i know. i should be locked up shouldnt i.
it not people like me that give any impression. and what gives you the impression i dont vote?
i am well aware there are people out there who do a good job, but im talking about the parties they are affiliated with.
what political party shall i go for?
any of them actually been scandal free for more than 6 months at a time?

its not a question about being fair.
if the tax payer didnt have to fork out hundreds of millions of pounds so some cúnt of a politition can get away with rezoning, or some backhander, wed all be a hell of a lot better off. how much do you reckon would come of the tax if we didnt pay for all this rubbish?
im sorry for being a bit of a cynic here, but irish politics is laughable at best, and embaressing.

anyway, there is no difference between the main parties.
the greens are area bunch of loonies.
sinn fein are terrorists.
maybe i should run?
it seems to give you celebrity status and mean you can get away with drink driving, lying, cheating and general misbehaviour.

actually im sure youd be very surprised with my ideas of politics.

m1ke

I don't take to that kind of cynical pessimism, pisses me off, a lot of people hold those views and they're one of the reasons why most people are less active in making politics work in Ireland. Greedy bitching politicians make the system work for them through clientelism and greed - distribution of favors, and hence get elected when it's really us - the voters that put them in there, we have the say on the ballot card in the end.

There are a few decent skins in the Parliament that deserve our support (even a decent party or two, or decent elements within parties that we need to encourage and support).

Also people who say that "all the parties hold the same view" - I hear this shyte a lot, and it's just not true. It is true that FF and FG's policies are literally identical on most issues, but there is other parties, and there are elements in FF and FG that are good, even if as structures they're both rotten.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Lads we are forgetting the vital document.....

ie. the Irish Constitution

No member of the Oireachtas can be expelled from sitting in the house unless barred due to bankruptcy or conviction of a Fellony.

Although both of the above may eventually happen we cant kick him out (not that I too wouldn't want to:p) until then. He is an elected representative and his expulsion would be in contravention of the democratic machinery within the state:(

Typedef

Originally posted by m1ke
kick him out, jail him.... and update the legislation to keep convicted criminals out of parliament

Maybe kick him out of the Fianna Fial party, but that is a bit of a non-issue, in reality no-one could care less if Liam Lawlor is in party X or Y. Yes if the man is convicted of a crime he should be imprisoned. Legislating that convicted criminals are not allowed to sit in parliment is a totalitarian and draconian step. In a democracy anyone, may put themselves forward for an election, in a pluralist Republic it would be wholey wrong for a government or bi-partisan body of politicians to attempt to place constraints on people being elected to parliment due to the fact that that person may have commited an offence in the past. What if the same logic were applied to Northern Ireland? Gerry Adams would not be allowed to sit nor propose himself for election to Westminister, that is what the result of a law like that would be, it would create a gentry of "parliment worthy" people and that is totally wrong.

If Liam Lawlor is convicted of a crime then for the duration of his prision scentence Mr Lawlor should have representatives who act in place of him whilst he is in jail. Again I say, if Ireland were to attempt to make a law which could bar someone in Ireland from holding office delegated by sufferage, then the Republic of Ireland would in effect create a caste system of those eligable for public office and those deemed to be unfit. Why stop at criminals, why not bar 'naturalised' immigrants from holding offce, or "Islamic Terrorists"(while Irish "terrorists" are ok?).

Perhaps the political parties who are not in government would politically benefit from a parlimentary ethnic cleansing, weeding out the unclean transgressors who are not "fit" to hold office, but I must ask, exactly who sets the standard of parlimentary fitness? In the Republic of Ireland the system of government is espoused as being one in which any citizen may become a member of parliment, but the reality is that nepotism is rampant, the reality is that an elite core of rich and powerful people and families are the proliferic and dominant force in Irish politics (example Charles Haughy married to a former Taoiseach's daughter), so why would the Irish people want to make parliment any less representative than it already is?
If a person satisfies the criteria for election as laid out by the state then that person must be allowed to participate in parliment.
If Ireland truly is a democracy then there may be no "untouchable" caste of people who are barred from participating in the democratic system, therefore Lawlor must stay.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by Typedef
Maybe kick him out of the Fianna Fial party

He already has!
He is technically an independant TD, who just happens to vote with FF ALL the time:)

Boston

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan


i know. i should be locked up shouldnt i.
it not people like me that give any impression. and what gives you the impression i dont vote?
i am well aware there are people out there who do a good job, but im talking about the parties they are affiliated with.
what political party shall i go for?
any of them actually been scandal free for more than 6 months at a time?

its not a question about being fair.
if the tax payer didnt have to fork out hundreds of millions of pounds so some cúnt of a politition can get away with rezoning, or some backhander, wed all be a hell of a lot better off. how much do you reckon would come of the tax if we didnt pay for all this rubbish?
im sorry for being a bit of a cynic here, but irish politics is laughable at best, and embaressing.

anyway, there is no difference between the main parties.
the greens are area bunch of loonies.
sinn fein are terrorists.
maybe i should run?
it seems to give you celebrity status and mean you can get away with drink driving, lying, cheating and general misbehaviour.

actually im sure youd be very surprised with my ideas of politics.

What ever you think about parties, its important to vote, you matter then. its never just one vote, i managed to convince 10 people to vote no on the nice treaty, and these were people who werent even going to vote

m1ke

Typedef, I should have rephrased what I said a little clearer for all our nit pickers out there.

This is more clearly what I mean't to say :

If a TD cannot act within the law while serving the country then she/he should be expelled from the parliament. I agree with most of what you said but I believe that when a TD is elected they must stay within the law and if they are convicted and imprisoned while sitting in parliament and serving the country then their seat should be taken away from them.