Moderator Bias choaking IOFFL

smokin' an'chewin' man

Pragmatica wrote:

....
3) Why cant we as members complain about about the direction things are going ?

4) There is extreme bias on behalf of the moderaters here ...


Sadly this has become the order of the day for this organisation.

The committee are quick to claim hundreds and hundreds of members but when it comes to those members expressing views that make the appointed, not elected, moderators, uncomfortable or if they criticise the hibernation of the oh so family life busy commitee then they get smacked down and now booted off.

One poster gets so frustrated he asks to be booted out and is refused, another get's screwed straight away.

We have a board littered with "Anyone got a spare DSL connection?? threads and "The reply I sent Eircom regarding their E-Christmas Cards! " threads, but knock the committee and the moderators and you get locked and booted.

There are now more and more 'members' opting out of the board because their opinions, whenever contrary to the control freaks, are vilified and bullied. As a result the 'sparse' postings on the boards no longer reflect the actual opinions of the 'membership', only the 'approved' members who comply with the committee line.

This IOFFL group will never be taken seriously while it is a clique- driven insider dominated group who have no tolerance of criticism, despite the fact that no action whatsoever has been taken by the committee for months on end except the controversial 'blackout'.

What is happening in the Eircom/ODTR legal case ? What has happened to all the plans adopted in the original formation documents ? Where are the meetings ? the involvement of the regions ? What complaints have been lodged by the IOFFL ? What responses have there been ? Who is supporting us ? What are they saying ? Has the European Commissioner responded to the IOFFL ? Has he been contacted ? Where are the sample letters and comparative date for members to use for their TD's and Ministers ?

I just visited the IOFFL site and read the original formation document that Howard Brittain, God bless him, wrote after the formation meeting. Being out of the country at the time was the only thing that prevented me from meeting him.

So many of the objectives have been completely abandoned;

"To highlight the poor comparison of the state of
internet access in Ireland as compared to other EU
countries."
Where is this information on the IOFL site for people to use and educate ?

"To be more proactive in asking questions as to why
progress is so slow, why business is not bringing more
pressure on the Government and the ODTR, why the government
appears indifferent."
Where is there any details of any responses from these people ? Have they responded ? Who has ? What have they said ?

"It was agreed by proclamation that the organisation must
adopt a strategy of encouraging other organisations and
companies to take up these objectives through their own
organisations"
What other organisations have been contacted ? What was their response ? What are they doing in this task ? What have business groups said to us ? Have we asked them anything ? What have they said ?

Where is all this information ? What is happening ? All I read about is people's comittments, life committments etc. college committments/ How come this didn't stop the work done in founding this group ? but is crippling it now ? What a sad inheritance from the guy that drove all this forward from the beginning and is now banished by the same control freaks. Im sending him this posting and begging him to come back and lead this organisation before it becomes nothing but an embarrassment and if anyone is still reading this board before this thread is booted I ask you to do the same !

Medion

I cant really comment because I dont know everybody involved or the background, but if there is nothing important being posted on the forum except "No News to report" or nothing of intrest is happening within the community to discuss then it obvious the people like to talk and the forum will be filled with other issues and off-topic stuff.

I dont mind off topic threads myself but I see everyone complain about them but I dont think that's the problem! If there were real topic to discuss that was going to get us somewhere with flat-rate and members were allowed the freedom to reply without riddcule, then thoes topics would drowned out the off-topic stuff that is always at the top because there not else of any intrest happening in the movement only power struggle I think probably cause the forum is @ boards.ie and long standing member of boards.ie have power and not member's whom joined IOFFL.

We have only registered to become lonely members of boards.ie not IOFFL.

We should have an unbiased forum for IOFFL only (one forum) on diffrent server without any moderation or administrator so we can all go and share our opinions and debate without censor and everyone is on same playing feild and not booted for not having degree.

I know that adam and bard do work hard as committee members and I wouldn't change them for anybody (great work guys) but I dont think have an fair system of working.

On a free open forum without mods both commitee members can do the exact same job as there are now for IOFFL ... I dont see that any post on this board that I've read has made Bard or Adam do a lesser job for IOFFL but members cant seem to get to talk to eachother here.

It's not a commuinty for people that have a bad net access and want to talk about it. It's a community controled too tightly as if it were to be one's person view and if your not of the same view your locked out, called moron, and later booted for being diffrent.

I seen the thread your refering to and I wanted to ask did anybody else know what pragmatica was like in other forums beside IOFFL ?

I havent seen a new reply or complaint in mod section. Was his account removed from IOFFL's forum only or did they kick him of Boards.ie completly ?

Anyway. I dont know of or have seen the documents you mentioned and like yourself I haven't been able to find out what is goin on yet from the forum like who is doing what, where and when it been done and what the results are. I seen new idea's poping up on the forum and they are all shot down pritty quickly or worse again ignored.

I dont know that guy you mention so would be no point in me emailing him.

Another question I wanted to ask ? I seen a petition thread earlier. Has anybody tried doing a petition on paper by going house to house and getting thousands of names and presenting it to an offical at the government ?

meglome

As a moderator of another forum I really don't see too much that I would have a problem with here. This forum is for a specific topic so much or all off-topic stuff may be moved or deleted. Stuff that might cause boards.ie to be sued will de deleted. Sometimes people will have issues with each other but again there is very little of that here. You might also find a guy who has spammed any number of other forums so he may get removed for that. I am totally against censorship but without some form of order then all we are left with is chaos and I have seen this chaos on other forums and it wasn't pretty. Don't want to be specific here just to give my general feelings.

Medion

Thanks for a very prompt responce to my post meglome but this is issues going on in background I think.

I know what your mean I dont have problem with what on the board just whats taken of it that I never got to read cause a mod deleted it and I think I getting pumped with misinformation through delition and editing but I srongly feel that - Discussing how IOFFL is operated and how the IOFFL forum is moderated is not an off-topic topic to IOFFL community

My point about independant server is that it a community for IOFFL memebrs for IOFFL members and not opressed by Boards.ie moderaters views on net access after all they just host the site for IOFFL. They shouldn't be running IOFFL and banning members for discussing IOFFL issues with other IOFFL members that are legitmate and not illegal or aginst Boards.ie's TOS.

An Independet server has may other advantages to aside from making complaits. IOFFL members come here to read and get updated on IOFFL issues. Why should we have to compalin about moderation in Boards.ie's admin section that is an other organasiation that is unrelated to IOFFL ?

Freedom of speach and human rights are being abused when us members cant talk with other members in our own forum.

Everyone is talking about control freaking but I agree ther has to be some control but not to extent that member cant talk on forum anymore for locked threads and deleted/edited posts.

Who can say what has happened and what disinformation is floating about here ?

Maybe all majority of our members has complained in last months and they all deleted ... I dont know ... I have no complaint with IOFFL as I am new member and like it here so far but there is fuuny threads on this board that are hard to follow and it suggets it moderation problem.

Another question !! If one of our members account is deleted from boards.ie because of activity in other forums does that mean he is no longer a member of IOFFL ? how is that member supposed to play an importan part in IOFFL ?

Example say just any name for example "Mr. Toxic" was in say the "For Sale" forum and posted adverts to his shop and almight DeVore kills his ID ... what does that do for IOFFL espically when maybe he could be our top IOFFL member like Adam or somebody else ?

I'll check back later to see you advice if this topic is not locked and the guy that started it is not booted ...

Dustaz

Hmm, so much to comment on here.

To smokin and chewin man, I think youll find that most of the committee was elected, not appointed, at the last public meeting. They were also given the power (by vote) to appoint new members of the committee as needed. I participated in that vote, did you?

Amidst your bitter comments, you actually do bring up some ideas on what would make you happier. I think some of them have already been answered but I look forward to seeing how the others are.

Please delete my account from this forum too ...

He was deleted - Where’s the problem with that?

I didn’t see any topics that weren’t directly flaming the ioffl locked. I don’t see how information is being stifled. Keep the conspiracy theories out of this please.

There’s a lot of talk about 'members' this and members that. Sorry, but signing up on a public bulletin board doesn’t give anyone the right to demand full disclosure of anything, insult whoever they please or actually break the law by being libellous. I have not paid to become a member of IOFFL, therefore I don’t expect much in return.

Medion, I think you have the wrong end of the stick about the moderators. They are not Boards.ie mods looking after a forum, they are IOFFL members who have been made boards.ie mods to moderate the forum - if you catch my drift. For example, Bard was a formative member of IOFFL and set up the forum here. He was made a moderator of it. Dahamasta (as far as I know) came to boards.ie THROUGH Ireland Offline. Devore on the other hand is god, if you don’t like his rules, don’t post on his server.

Lastly, As an Ireland Offline 'member', I'm fairly happy with how the organisation is being run. Sure, Id like to see some more events being run (but apart from another public meeting, I really haven’t seen any other good ideas) and maybe some more news. Having said that, if there’s no news there’s no news.
I have learnt a hell of a lot from these forums and the people on them and the low signal to noise ratio is a reason for that. Long may it continue.

Medion

Thanks for concerned responce again Dustaz but I dont know who to trust now.

I have email few people concerning the issue and seems there is problems in opinion.

Is there a reason that we have to become members of board.ie before we can become members of IOFFL or what ?

Why cant we have our own server with our own rules for our own members?

So are we IOFFL members or Boards.ie members ? I just followed the link on Irelandoffline's site to here. I though I was signing up to IOFFL ?

Another issue that needs to be addressed is what acceptable on our forum. Ok! Porn/spam and all the usual stuff should be done away with but surly not the freedom to talk to other members.

It's simple to me. If you dont want to talk to someone then dont! but give members that like to talk to eachother a chance as long as they are not spaming the forum with filth.

Although topics may be critical like this topic started of but it's hardly describable as off topic to IOFFL community.

I have to go and check my mail. I'll get back to you later.

hmmm

Originally posted by Medion
Is there a reason that we have to become members of board.ie before we can become members of IOFFL or what ?

Why cant we have our own server with our own rules for our own members?

So are we IOFFL members or Boards.ie members ? I just followed the link on Irelandoffline's site to here. I though I was signing up to IOFFL ?

Because Boards.ie were gracious enough to offer to host the forum. If you want to host it somewhere else, fine, you go pay for it, and you go set it up. Otherwise stop the moaning, people are offering their services freely, and you're getting exactly what you paid for.

On the 'committee is a clique', yes some people have attempted to make it into one (Bard), and still try occasionally, but I think wiser heads have taken on board the criticism and steered it away from there.

I can appreciate people like Adam saying "wait a while things are happening". What I would like to see are some timetables (i.e. at what point can we say "oops nothing happening time for plan b")

Bard

Originally posted by Medion

Another issue that needs to be addressed is what acceptable on our forum. Ok! Porn/spam and all the usual stuff should be done away with but surly not the freedom to talk to other members.

Sorry, - don't mean to seem all "power mad" or anything (I'm not, honest!), but no - that doesn't need to be addressed. The moderators will decide if something is inappropriate. This forum isn't a democracy, it is, as has been said before, more like a benevolent dictatorship. If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to post.

Originally posted by hmmm

On the 'committee is a clique', yes some people have attempted to make it into one (Bard), and still try occasionally, but I think wiser heads have taken on board the criticism and steered it away from there.

I resent that. First of all you're making an accusation there - that *I* am trying to make the committee into a clique. Please either back that up or retract it.

I am certainly NOT trying to make the committee into a clique,- in fact I've been outspoken about getting more of the RIGHT kind of people onto the committee in order to GET THINGS DONE.

Secondly, you're implying that I'm "unwise", and not knowing me, as you clearly don't, that's a 'silly' thing to say, to say the least.

Please get your facts straight.

DeVore

I wonder if Medion is Pragmatica who I banned for being a flaming muppet.

That was me btw, not the IOFFL committee who I dont need to ask to ban people from this site. His lack of civility expelled himself from the community.

If you have a problem with that, take it up with me.

DeV.

DeVore

ps: I make no comment on IOFFL's internal issues or membership management. This is about putting your points accross CIVILLY. I pretty much dont care what those points are so long as they are legal and civil.

DeV.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Dustaz
Hmm, so much to comment on here.
To smokin and chewin man, I think youll find that most of the committee was elected, not appointed, at the last public meeting.

Read my post. I referred to the moderators.

Amidst your bitter comments,

Absolutely typical of the attitude pervading this group. I couldnt have asked for a more typical response.


I didnt see any topics that weren’t directly flaming the ioffl locked. I dont see how information is being stifled. Keep the conspiracy theories out of this please.

Is that a new instruction from the committee ? or just the usual knee jerk reaction ?

There’s a lot of talk about 'members' this and members that. Sorry, but signing up on a public bulletin board doesn’t give anyone the right to demand full disclosure of anything, insult whoever they please or actually break the law by being libellous.

An interesting combination. You lump in 'insult' with 'libellous' __ very convenient when any serious or aggressive criticism can be interpreted as an insult, especially considering your response to my criticism as 'bitter'. Your attitude exemplifies my criticisms.

And since when is full disclosure something members of a movement like this have no right to ? It seems to me that this is all going to your head, and perhaps you're not the only one !


I have not paid to become a member of IOFFL, therefore I dont expect much in return.

That doesnt apply to all of us. We expect people to be democratic, open and fair. Not insulting to criticism, cliquish, fascist and almost completely inactive on behalf of the members.

Lastly, As an Ireland Offline 'member', Im fairly happy with how the organisation is being run.

Hardly surprising is it ?

Sure, Id like to see some more events being run (but apart from another public meeting, I really havent seen any other good ideas) and maybe some more news. Having said that, if there’s no news theres no news.


Then whats the point in the people on the committee BEING on the committee if they are not DOING anything ?


I have learnt a hell of a lot from these forums and the people on them and the low signal to noise ratio is a reason for that. Long may it continue.

Perhaps thats part of the problem. Almost nil expectation and almost nil delivery.

Most people who joined this movement expected some action and some respect for the members by keeping them in touch with the little that happens.

As I said, this movement seems to be descending into an embarrassment. A movement that doesnt move ! An action group that doesnt act ! A pressure group that doesnt pressure !

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Bard

This forum isn't a democracy, it is, as has been said before, more like a benevolent dictatorship. If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to post.


So speaks the original control freak fascist. **** the members, they don't HAVE to join !


I resent that {hmmms post}. First of all you're making an accusation there - that *I* am trying to make the committee into a clique. Please either back that up or retract it.

I am certainly NOT trying to make the committee into a clique,- in fact I've been outspoken about getting more of the RIGHT kind of people onto the committee in order to GET THINGS DONE.


Freud couldnt have written the script better. Does this guy even read what hes written before hes posted it ? the RIGHT kind of people ????? Unbelievable !!


Secondly, you're implying that I'm "unwise", and not knowing me, as you clearly don't, that's a 'silly' thing to say, to say the least.


'Unwide' is as 'unwide' does, I guess


Please get your facts straight.


It certainly looks like youve coonfirmed the facts very well with that post.

Boston

im sick of this self deluded tripe. this is not what i or anybody else joined for. ioffl is being coaked, but its by this crap and nothing else.

all i can say to all parties involved, pull you heads out of your self important ass's and understand, that no one member means anything to his cause, but it is the whole that matters most.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
im sick of this self deluded tripe. this is not what i or anybody else joined for. ioffl is being coaked, but its by this crap and nothing else.


Another 'Moderator' shows his colors.

It's no wonder so many people that signed up stay away from this board that is controlled by angry and bullying moderators who attack any criticism of IOFFL with such vilification.

Its very sad that this is happening to what could have been a great movement for change __ as I am sure people in the ODTR, the Ministers dept and Eircom are reading the ludicrous way this movement is run and the contempt in which members are held by the committee. What kind of respect can they have for such a bunch of control freaks who appear to care NOTHING for the opinions of the members, unless they agree with the insider activists.


all i can say to all parties involved, pull you heads out of your self important ass's and understand, that no one member means anything to his cause, but it is the whole that matters most.

And how on earth would YOU know ? you offer nothing but insulting trash talk. You drive members away from expressing their views with your venomous attitude and your indifference to differing views.

Boston

actually, i avoided personal attack because i believed you were quiet accurate in your orginal criticism.had this been my forum i would have locked the tread after the reply of the mods and left it a sticky for a cuple of days.

but this had become a personal battle between you and bard. that i do not like. I have never "hiden" my colours, im quiet even handed, more so then 90% of the mods here i feel.

I refused to be draged into this mess. Your angry and attack me wont stop that.

Shinji

It's rubbish like this from people not proactive enough to actually do anything constructive, but bitter enough to do plenty thats destructive, which has destroyed every attempt to set up representative bodies for Internet users in Ireland.

In fact, it's rather typically Irish. As soon as one man is willing to undertake to build something, there are ten men who've never built anything in their lives ready to knock it down.

Now, personally, I don't believe IOFFL has been going about its business as vigorously and as speedily as I would have hoped. I realise that they've hit a lot of hurdles, and I realise that each of the people involved have personal and work commitments which have prevented them from devoting as much time as we might like to the "cause". I accept this. Certainly there have been mistakes made but people learn from mistakes and move on.

However, posting destructive, bitter-sounding comments claiming the existence of "cliques" or nazi-esque posting policies is ridiculous. I've never seen a post here locked for criticising the running of IOFFL or for disagreeing with moderators. I have, however, seen posts removed or moved for asking irrelevant questions or for downright rudeness.

Keep it civil and sensible and nobody has a problem with the message.

(As to the whole "why do we have to join Boards.ie to be involved with IOFFL" question, would you prefer an unmoderated board where anyone can post without going through a registration process? If so, I suggest you go look at some similar boards around the Internet, and then come back to me with a slightly more educated viewpoint.)

Dustaz

Well, i was going to let this drop but i have to correct a few things. SACM, you seem to be implying something in your posts that is not correct.

It seems to me that this is all going to your head, and perhaps you're not the only one !

Im just an ordinary member like you, airing my opinions like you. Im not a mod, a committee member or anything similar, yet you seem to be intimating that somehow im involved with the nasty baddie people*.

also

Another 'Moderator' shows his colors.

It's no wonder so many people that signed up stay away from this board that is controlled by angry and bullying moderators who attack any criticism of IOFFL with such vilification.

Boston is a moderator of a differerent forum within boards.ie. Hes not a mod on this forum. He came to boards.ie through IOFFL and became a moderator by actually taking part in the community and not just grinding a massive axe in public.


Lastly

Read my post. I referred to the moderators.

Read mine again. Maybe after you read it again you might understand it. Bard was elected, he is a mod. By vote, the committee were given power to add committee members as needed without a public vote - dahamasta for example.
I dont know how i can make that clearer.

segadreamcast

This seems to be dividing the community...can't you all see that fighting amongst ourselves will help nobody? Eircon are probably peeing themselves laughing watching us right now.

This is ridiculously childish, can't we just agree to disagree? Can't everyone just get along and see that we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves but should rather be united in fighting the true enemy/enemies?

Medion

Ok! I think I'm going to leave IOFFL now as nothing of this whole chief whip stuff was mentioned @ Irelandoffline's home site and that we had to sign up to other organizations as having to follow party lines without self expression on internet.

I have a lot to say and not enough time to say it here.

Because Boards.ie were gracious enough to offer to host the forum. If you want to host it somewhere else, fine, you go pay for it, and you go set it up. Otherwise stop the moaning, people are offering their services freely, and you're getting exactly what you paid for. - hmmm

I'm OK with another organization offering to host IOFFL but they should not be dictatorship in IOFFL community and DeVore claims he is not, but obviously is otherwise his views wouldn't be expressed here as admin of boards.ie with power to boot people that have not broken boards.ie rules. If DeVore and other boards.ie ranking officials want to comment on IOFFL issues and not boards.ie issues they should sign up as new members and post on IOFFL forum as IOFFL members! I am not the backbone of IOFFL and don't want to be your leader and dictate to anybody so hosting a forum on and independent server would be a collective responsibility and possible to do on free server like ms.network.net. I didn't pay for anything except very high internet bill I wasn't aware that we had to pay a subscription to join IOFFL. Also please stop labeling my complaint about IOFFL/Boards.ie incompatibility as moaning. That what eircom are fond of doing and why I arrived here like yourself unless you were already a boards.ie member and not IOFFL member.

On the 'committee is a clique', yes some people have attempted to make it into one (Bard) - hmmm

I agree with you on this issue. I couldn't comment earlier as I haven't seen his posting yet but he came today and said something like "I haven't locked topics and I'm not stopping members from talking" and then he locked the topic saying "it was a waste of space from the start" even though the topic has 18 odd replies from various members whom wanted to discuss the issue. He even mention in this thread that this is dictatorship organization and if you don't like to you can leave IOFFL or Boards.ie and not be member. So if members cant post messages only except mods and committee members surely there is only several members in IOFFL now which is dictating clique!

I can appreciate people like Adam saying "wait a while things are happening". What I would like to see are some timetables (i.e. at what point can we say "oops nothing happening time for plan b") - hmmm

I totally agree to this also. In the USO standard thread he mentions the work that's being bone there and he'll be issuing an update in new year very shortly.

The moderators will decide if something is inappropriate. This forum isn't a democracy, it is, as has been said before, more like a benevolent dictatorship. If you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to post. - Bard

You said it yourself bard - nobodies forcing me to post in other words you don't want us to post question and answers and when we do they are locked and deleted, that is a lot worse than benevolent dictatorship! It didn't take long for the truth to come out!

in fact I've been outspoken about getting more of the RIGHT kind of people onto the committee in order to GET THINGS DONE. - Brad

LMAO Bard That something like a clique and would these "Right" members be new members of IOFFL or long standing members of boards.ie ?

Also "Get things done". Smoking and chewing man has listed many things that have not been implemented and members seem to be screaming for feedback on what being don't and the answer is - Nothing can be done @ this time and there no news to report for now but work is going on in background which is sensitive to IOFFL members eyes and not boards.ie apparently now stop your bitching and stop your posting or you'll be banned from separate organization boards.ie or at least threatened to be banned even for something civil (devore) like wanting to discuss the inequality between Dublin and rural areas with regards net access.

Ok. I think Dublin gets a better deal when it comes to net access in Ireland (bang! The Devore Strikes Back Episode II - I just lost my account @ boards.ie deleted for saying that one sentence).

I wonder if Medion is Pragmatica who I banned for being a flaming muppet. - DeVore

No I'm not but have contacted him via email and :-

I'm really disappointed with boards.ie's affair in all this espically devore and adam and bard ... I requested to be banned from IFFOL because of dispute with elete group of members deleting and locking posts and insulting less educated members of IFFOL and monoploising free speach on that forum and boards.ie organaisation removed my account where I often visit the buy an sell section and I dont think I that I had broken any boards.ie rules in genural. I should not have to complain to boards.ie to solve issuse with another organisation namely IFFOL and be called moron for posting an contact address for public organisation in EU which adam deleted and then let other in the elete group of baords.ie members post on daily basises!

Thanks very much for your concern and insight into the issue but I wont be returning to IFFOL although I would like my account for boards.ie to be active for other forums such as buy and sell and I have registered my complaint @ boards.ie complains section and highlighted the issue of the distibction between IFFOL and boards.ie and I fell that it may be a waste for time as I have not gotten a reply from boards.ie yet much like eircom and I'm 90% sure devore is probably the person I mailed with the complaint and his judgment I think wasn't fair or I wouldn't have had register any complaints

I wish u success in ur efforts to make IFFOL a better community and hope that action is taken soon that will bring about flat-rate for the ordinary person in ireland.

Pragmatica ...

I have lots of empathy here as I can see where he's coming from DeVore.

That was me btw, not the IOFFL committee who I dont need to ask to ban people from this site. His lack of civility expelled himself from the community. - DeVore

So you agree that you have the power to prevent members being an substantive part of IOFFL alone without appointment of IOFFL members ? What happens if eircom buy you with money ? Would you hinder the progress of IOFFL ? I have a idea that your server is endorsed by eircom themselves.

And even better you contradict yourself in two following posts!

ps: I make no comment on IOFFL's internal issues or membership management. This is about putting your points accross CIVILLY. I pretty much dont care what those points are so long as they are legal and civil. - DeVore

How can you just calmly say that after saying :-

That was me btw, not the IOFFL committee who I dont need to ask to ban people from this site. - DeVore

If you have a problem with that, take it up with me. DeVore

If I do take it up with you will my account be deleted from both boards.ie and IOFFL community even though you claim :-

I make no comment on IOFFL's internal issues or membership management! DeVore

Another moderator in the clique comes and tramples on IOFFL membership and rights to talk on open forum and contradicts himself also.

but it is the whole that matters most Boston

The whole cannot speak here just moderators and degree students or those that have degrees now apparently.

Then the contradiction :-

actually, i avoided personal attack because i believed you were quiet accurate in your orginal criticism - Boston

Why didn't you say that first Boston instead of supporting banning of IOFFL membership by Boards.ie and supporting censorship ?

You say you agreed there is moderator bias but don't object to it because other member of IOFFL makes complaint about it. ROTFLMAO Hang on till I stop wetting myself

I realise that each of the people involved have personal and work commitments which have prevented them from devoting as much time as we might like to the "cause". I accept this. Certainly there have been mistakes made but people learn from mistakes and move on. - Shinji

I don't accept this as member of IOFFL community. I have right to voice that statement just as much as you have right to voice that you do accept that situation without fear of getting banned or biased unbiased boards.ie members spamming forum in 10:2 ratio on IOFFL forum issues and all replies are uncivil with Muppet, moron and other distasteful language benign mentioned.

I've never seen a post here locked for criticizing the running of IOFFL or for disagreeing with moderators - Shinji

You have failed to look @ the topics on the IOFFL forum! Topics are locked before they get off the ground. I don't know what has be deleted but I and others cant reply to the topics here that we'd most like to reply in.

All organizations should be open to change and may do so but a dictatorship organization that disallows post about it own organization will not change even for the best of all the members @ the expense of the few in the clique.

Continued -

Medion

- Continued

Read mine again. Maybe after you read it again you might understand it. Bard was elected, he is a mod. By vote, the committee were given power to add committee members as needed without a public vote - dahamasta for example.
I dont know how i can make that clearer. - Dustaz

Hello m8, I think your analysis of the situation has fallen short of the argument form the other members! Your quote is basically saying something like "Well the people give the government the power to sell eircom our "lines" and not just the exchanges so it's your mistake and they can do what they like and monopolize and forget about the people! Tough! Don't post because we are IOFFL dictatorship now! Final warning! Bard!

Cant you see what your saying ?

I came here to fight this type of activity in organization head on where I though I would get help. I didn't for a second think I would have to fight IOFFL on such issues just for my believes in fair and justness or all in our ever-changing country!

If members gave that power why are members not allowed to question the committee that have those monopolistic powers ? Why cant members change the structure of their own organization!

I am conducting a cross-reference analysis of the forums DB as we speak to see what ratio of IOFFL members is posting here as opposed to Boards.ie members that were already resident here.

I will update you on results A.S.A.P or maybe DeVore can help and do a better job with statistical analysis using forum script than having me meticulously looking @ post counts sign up dates etc to see where community base lays in relation to membership head count. I have already suspicion that over half IOFFL's members has only posted one question before leaving. We could also analyze views of topics by members. I think lots of members are inactive and not signed in recently as all topics range about 200 views approx and 10 replies approx so if member has to come back to get reply or check new message then that near an (100 count) :- 10 posters x 10 posters views who are only active and (200 count) is 10 poster views + 10 ordinary post viewers x 10 posters which averages 20 members only interested in topic for forum and median of that would be 10 true members of IOFFL and 10 members of boards.ie. IOFFL is a really small community when it's broken down in terms that can be represent.

I look forward to all replies and hope that it will clear up some of the disinformation floating about and we can get down to the nitty gritty and regroup and make a bigger and better comeback from the current disaster happening within IOFFL community. Later Friends.

Medion!

PS. If argument is true and unchangeable I wont return and bother the status quo of your organization I will look for other groups that fight oppression from the outside and inside

Thanks for reading

Medion

This is ridiculously childish, can't we just agree to disagree? Can't everyone just get along and see that we shouldn't be fighting amongst ourselves but should rather be united in fighting the true enemy/enemies? NoelRock

I agree Noel! but it seem the members cant unite aginst the common enemy because they are prohibited from talking on IOFFL/Boards.ie dictarorship forum and hence reaching a final aggrement that members can subscribe to!

How can we get united and make IOFFL a force to be reckoned with if dictatorship says go home if you don't like our dictatorship method of working ? You are free to post olny as long as it in line with dictatorship views and only if your in the clique ?

I am sending ODTR a copy off this topic to get there view on IOFFL method and asking advice on how or wher to go from here.

Medion!

meglome

Medion are you on drugs, maybe something like E that's makes you paranoid. I must be reading a different forum to you cause to me you just you seem to be waffling a lot. Not trying to insult you but a couple of longs walks would be good for you.

DeVore

Oh. God.

Listen, I'll explain this as best I can to you.


The order of power goes:

God.
DeVore and Admins
Mods of the board in question. Regardless of the board.


I dont ask IOFFL permission to kick/ban anyone here because these are my boards. I dont have to put up with jack here. If you dont like that... go away. If IOFFL didnt like that, they could go away too. However they havent had a problem with my decisions to date and seem happy to stay. Go figure.

So there is no hypocracy here. I dont have any public opinion on IOFFL, their membership, their policies, their management or their PR. I DO however, kick and ban people who are clearly trolling in an inflamatory way. cf: YOU.

If you had a point to make you'd make it CIVILLY. If you think that I would still kick/ban you if you did... YOU ARE VERY MUCH MISTAKEN. Indeed I'd take umbrage with the mods if *they* kicked and banned you in such a case.

The point is YOU ARE NOT CIVIL. You are inflamatory, insulting, sniping and just plain HOSTILE.


Now, I have two SPECIFIC questions for you:

1. You say
Ok. I think Dublin gets a better deal when it comes to net access in Ireland (bang! The Devore Strikes Back Episode II - I just lost my account @ boards.ie deleted for saying that one sentence).

Are you kidding with that? I have deleted exactly two accounts in the last week. one was "the prick" for obvious reasons... the other was Pragmatica for lack of civility.

Now exactly what are you refering to in that quote.


2. You say:
So you agree that you have the power to prevent members being an substantive part of IOFFL alone without appointment of IOFFL members ? What happens if eircom buy you with money ? Would you hinder the progress of IOFFL ? I have a idea that your server is endorsed by eircom themselves.

Please faster your seatbelts and place your chairs in the upright position....
We have just lost cabin pressure...

I'm not even sure where to begin with this. Yes, the person (me) who rallied a lot of people to the Errorcom flag (even though I wasnt the one who did it...) and who sold Errorcom t-shirts... is really an Eircom spy ... is that what you are saying?
Are you suggesting that Eircom bought into boards.ie JUST SO THEY COULD CONTROL IOFFL MEMBERSHIP? ? *boggle*

I would take advertising off Eircom the same way I would take it from anyone, in fact quicker because I would see the funny side of it. However other then that I have no time for Eircom whatsoever.

Actually, its sunday night and I have beers in my fridge, what the hell am I doing arguing with people who are clearly delusional.

DeV.

DeVore

Medion, one last question before I go get a beer: Have you EVER posted on boards.ie as another username? Dont lie to me now because you *know* I'll know

Have you?

DeV.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Shinji
Its rubbish like this from people not proactive enough to actually do anything constructive, but bitter enough to do plenty thats destructive, which has destroyed every attempt to set up representative bodies for Internet users in Ireland.
/B]
Here we go - its rubbish and bitter when people knock you, right ?

However, posting destructive, bitter-sounding comments claiming the existence of "cliques" or nazi-esque posting policies is ridiculous. Ive never seen a post here locked for criticising the running of IOFFL or for disagreeing with moderators.


Criticism=destructive and bitter ? And cliques is simple a description of how it looks to me. I never mentioned nazis so I dont know why you start.


(As to the whole "why do we have to join Boards.ie to be involved with IOFFL" question, would you prefer an unmoderated board where anyone can post without going through a registration process? If so, I suggest you go look at some similar boards around the Internet, and then come back to me with a slightly more educated viewpoint.)

I didnt make that comment. pay attention.

Medion

Ok I have found new evidance here in support of bias @ http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37814 which was updated by today by DeVore

This is topic is proof of bias from boards.ie.

One IOFFL members posts a topic suggesting IOFFL revitilaze it thinking and approach!

Now look @ who replied!!!

5 boards.ie moderators
1 boards.ie administrators
2 IOFFL members
2 high ranking boards.ie members that have post count exceding 1000

And moderators claim IOFFL is not interfeared with by boards.ie and there is no bias.

Then the kill account of Pragmatica and leave 1 IOFFL member!

Not an issue for me but for boards.ie! It's not my place to say anything in reguards it but Pragmatica did asked to be removed form this forum!

Even if that is case. There is still problem with bias! Pragmatica may have been banned but why was the topic locked to other IOFFL members ?

This is definated bias! Espically in case that all high ranking members though that topic was good enough to give their reply to already.

Boards.ie administrators excersabates bias again after thread been locked for several days already! Gloating :-

Closed threads pose no block to admins (or mods it seems). - DeVore

So now it is clear boards.ie are locking out IOFFL memebrs and continuing to post replies for themselves as the are all mods.

I thought he was asking for that. *shrug* - DeVore

Proof that Boards.ie dong care for IOFFL members even as after thought!

I personally only say "I thought, I thought, I thought, I thought etc ... " after I thought wrong origionaly"

Why did DeVore not say "I think thats what he's was asking for ?"

You know you have made grave error in judgement and even more error in retrospect!

Right I am getting in contact with friend in england that has many high capasity bandwidth servers and I'm requestion he allow me to open new independed forum on server for IOFFL organisation only where free speech is not opressed and multible moderation is adheres to criteria ie. Spamming or Porn is all that will be deleted.

Let me know if you support this idea ?

Medion!

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
actually, i avoided personal attack because i believed you were quiet accurate in your orginal criticism.had this been my forum i would have locked the tread after the reply of the mods and left it a sticky for a cuple of days.

but this had become a personal battle between you and bard. that i do not like. I have never "hiden" my colours, im quiet even handed, more so then 90% of the mods here i feel.

I refused to be draged into this mess. Your angry and attack me wont stop that.

It would be nice if you would have the courtesy of saying to whom you are replying, because I hvent a clue.

If it is me, I find your attitude shocking. Lock up the thread for a bit of solid criticism ? astonishing.

No there is nothing personal anywhere in this thread at all. I dont know where you see personal battles. Any criticism appear to cause such an explosion of aggression here its mind boggling.

Medion

Medion, one last question before I go get a beer: Have you EVER posted on boards.ie as another username? Dont lie to me now because you *know* I'll know

Have you? DeVore

No. I have only joined IOFFL DeVore

This is My last post now untill all has setteled.

I hope you have a good night out on town

You have put me in mood for beer too as I am very tired now thinking so hard.

I have nothing against DeVore personaly! Actually I think I like him to some extend as he is god and an unusaual character and cheecy

I will pop back later in the week and see what develops and what new.

I'm looking forward to Christmas and wish you all the best over the season

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by Medion


Let me know if you support this idea ?

Medion!

I am sorry to say I believe this may be the only solution. And it is astonishing how few members have the guts to post here despite the fact that >200 members have viewed the thread and >300 have viewed the other effort to raise these subjects. Two threads out of MANY.

Your post is illuminating and the fact that accustations are flying from administrators about you being drugs is quite shocking.

Your analysis of the responses that are being posted to simple criticism posts is true. The assault from a whole herd of moderators who are inflamatory, aggressive, insulting and fascist in their attitudes to posts by ordinary members of IOFFL is socking and a travesty against everyone who has supported and sprad the word about IOFFL.

It is no wonder members are frightened from posting anything that does not toe the line when this avalanche lands on them.

How is anyone to know whether an administrator is a IOFFL administrator or from some other group ? or from Boards ? How exactly ?

Why are Administrators posting personal attacks under their Administrator hats ? and posting to 'locked' threads where members are excluded ?

I can hear the sucking sounds approching . . . .

meglome

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man
Originally posted by Medion

Your post is illuminating and the fact that accustations are flying from administrators about you being drugs is quite shocking.

No I suggested he MAY be taking drugs because of his obvious paranoia. I am not a boards.ie admin just the moderator of another forum and have no actual affiliation with boards.ie whatsoever. Although Boards.ie is not a democracy is it a limited company owned and run by people out of their own pockets and I'm sure it costs plenty to run. This means they set the rules and we all either except or be don't post here. Again I say I don't see what your problem is here. I read this forum most days and post rarely so I believe I would have noticed all these issues before. If people have a problem with the committee then vote against them at the next meeting but stop the crazy ramblings in the meantime.

One last thing the reason you may find more replies from other moderators and admins is that we KNOW what it is like to moderate a forum like this one. If you only saw the crap that is posted sometimes on the Counter-Strike forum which I moderate. So sometimes the tolerance levels are low... tough.

Medion

Sorry I didn't see all the replies in this thread earlier. It can happen, browser cache or something

Medion are you on drugs, maybe something like E that's makes you paranoid. I must be reading a different forum to you cause to me you just you seem to be waffling a lot. Not trying to insult you but a couple of longs walks would be good for you. - Meglome

No! I don't take drugs and as walk is a good suggestion just as good a beer

PS. Understand how this looks to the community with another Boards.ie moderator supporting censorship on IOFFL issues which has nothing to do with boards.ie civility issue or terms of service. This Topic should be allowed to be discussed by IOFFL members and not ransacked by Board.ie moderators and locked so IOFFL members cant reply and make change in our organization!

don't ask IOFFL permission to kick/ban anyone here because these are my boards. I don't have to put up with jack here. If you don't like that... go away. If IOFFL didn't like that, they could go away too. However they haven't had a problem with my decisions to date and seem happy to stay. Go figure DeVore

Your telling IOFFL members to go away again because they want to discuss IOFFL issues DeVore.

So there is no hypocracy here. I dont have any public opinion on IOFFL, their membership, their policies, their management or their PR DeVore

Yes you do and you have made it clear.

If you had a point to make you'd make it CIVILLY DeVore

The point is YOU ARE NOT CIVIL. You are inflamatory, insulting, sniping and just plain HOSTILE.DeVore

Where in this thread have I been uncivil and used bad language or call anyone names ?

If you think that I would still kick/ban you if you did... YOU ARE VERY MUCH MISTAKEN. Indeed I'd take umbrage with the mods if *they* kicked and banned you in such a case. DeVore

I know your in a hard position here DeVore but it's just not working. Thanks for keeping up-to-date on the IOFFL issue and being clam like myself in the face of big argument that neither of us started but are working to solve.

Now exactly what are you referring to in that quoteDeVore

Members have been locked out from threads for discussing that very same topic here already, what's a little more bias achieve = account deletions for disagreements.

Alright maybe a low blow to you if you wouldn't lock a topic because IOFFL members posted a similar topic on Dublin so accept my apology for that remark .

I'm not even sure where to begin with this. Yes, the person (me) who rallied a lot of people to the Errorcom flag (even though I wasnt the one who did it...) and who sold Errorcom t-shirts... is really an Eircom spy ... is that what you are saying?
Are you suggesting that Eircom bought into boards.ie JUST SO THEY COULD CONTROL IOFFL MEMBERSHIP? ? *boggle*

I would take advertising off Eircom the same way I would take it from anyone, in fact quicker because I would see the funny side of it. However other then that I have no time for Eircom whatsoever.

Actually, its sunday night and I have beers in my fridge, what the hell am I doing arguing with people who are clearly delusional.

DeV.DeVore

Sorry I didn't know that you were anti-eircom and have done much for our cause but I am new really and it's just how thing look to me since I cam on board.

Boy is that funny DeVore . If ericom look to advertise on your site make sure you charge the by the minuet

I have one last request because it is Sunday night

Can you leave this thread as is without deleting or locking or banning anyone civil and allow me one more post in several days time after Christmas to post a link for a possible alternative forum for IOFFL where other IOFFL member can come and hang out without restriction except for floods and Porn.

Those that feel safe and comfortable here can stay or visit both forums even.

I know I would like to visit here for news from time to time and see what is happening for flat-rate but I wont be debating these issues here anymore.

Thanks for reading and you advice

Medion!