Moderator Bias choaking IOFFL

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Medion
Those that feel safe and comfortable here can stay or visit both forums even.

Thank you

Medion

Ok then I will reply again but assure you that I will contain myself to this one thread.

Could boards.ie moderators and ranking members please try and refrain from posting arguments in support of boards.ie in this topic for the time being and let IOFFL members discuss IOFFL issue of way to going forward as this topic is civil and internal IOFFL discussion.

We do not need 5 moderators of boards.ie to dictate IOFFL direction to go to us.

I know it is Christmas time and all is out on holiday and having good time now but asides that when you come back from the festive season could all IOFFL members reading this topic that feel afraid to post or feel locked out come out and show your support for a change in policy within IOFFL management and keep comments civil and unrelated to boards.ie as they are separate body that have given support.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Medion
Ok then I will reply again but assure you that I will contain myself to this one thread.

Medion

If people have a problem with the committee then vote against them at the next meeting - Meglome

You fail to see the point Meglome and are probably unintentionally adding to the situation.

When topic are posted.

ie "When are we going have another IOFFL meeting ?"

Moderator/Committee member replies "Nothing on agenda yet besides we are dictatorship - Bard"

IOFFL member replies "When is IOFFL going do something on this issue ?"

Moderator/Committee member replies "This thread is waste of space and is now locked. if you don't like it you can leave! Final warning - Adam"

Do you think that is fair method of dealing with concerned members of IOFFL ? How are we to get anywhere with this attitude ?

I think DeVore is innocent casualty in all this and is fed misinformation in the same way I was @ the start. I know DeVore is busy man and needs his beer I am first to praise DeVore for allowing us this space on his board but I don't feel he has a standard for moderators as he does for members of boards.ie to which effects IOFFL functionality and IOFFL community are not happy and hence this problem which is escalating and causing problems now for boards.ie also.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Medion
I think DeVore is innocent casualty in all this and is fed misinformation in the same way I was @ the start.

The start for for you seems to be about two days ago. Since then you have made 25 posts most of which have been about not being allowed to speak.

Good luck in setting up a message board elsewhere.

Medion

Thanks for prompt response yet again friend and yes I have just emailed long time friend and requested hosting of independent forum for IOFFL.

Good point Skeptic! I seen now where you have gotten you name

Not all of those 25 posts were in conjunction with this issue!

I have only complained the once in my view about IOFFL's structure and I didn't create this thread either but I'm compelled to help as much as I can and that requires posting to find solutions.

I guess that it's just coincidence that both boards.ie moderators of this section went on Christmas holidays sometime after I joined IOFFL and this is the first thread to get through the net of censorship!

Look @ the much traffic it's getting from members and look @ the much discussion that needs to be done yet. I can only guess from current opinion that as soon as they arrive back from holidays this thread will be locked or even worse for IOFFL deleted! We'd be stuck right back where we started with no action or movement on the issue.

Then when the mods delete this post they will try and pump misinformation and tell other members that nothing is happening within IOFFL and there nothing to report if you don't like to go home

I'm afraid that my friend wont receive my email until sometime tomorrow and I'm going to bed soon so I leave this threads to IOFFL members to discuss amongst themselves and I'll report back within next day or two and working Christmas eve is a hard day, I might not be here to keep you updated tomorrow.

Latter

Medion!

Medion

I have also posted email to ODTR asking advice and working hard all night to save topics for later use!

It is Christmas so action will be slower than usual but I well report feedback as soon as I get it.

I have one more port of call and then we can all rest

gandalf

I quite curious to find out your real reason for starting up this whinge SACM. As for Medion I feel he has an alterior motive for his comments.

Alot of organisations would love to see IOFFL falling flat on their faces and this kind of unhelpful criticism is not going to further the cause.

Please do not tell me that I cannot post here. Yes I am a Boards.ie moderator but I have no power to moderate here (only Politics & Sport). I heard of IOFFL because of boards.ie and I normally lurk on this board only posting occasionally but I do have an interest in this and I do support IOFFL, remember not only do IOFFL bring members to Boards.ie but Boards.ie allow IOFFL to be exposed to alot of Internet literate Irish.

Some time ago one of the committee members posted telling people not to expect alot of information or action over the coming months, an awful lot of people seem to have forgotten or not seen that comment.

If you have a problem then make a constructive comment. Ones like

criticise the hibernation of the oh so family life busy commitee

a really not helpful and show a lack of respect for the hard work done by the committee members especially by someone we know from jack. As far as I remember it was MS who was the

One poster gets so frustrated he asks to be booted out and is refused, another get's screwed straight away.

this was the same chap who posted up the mail bombing Eircom idea, yeah IOFFL lost a real gem there.

Where are the sample letters and comparative date for members to use for their TD's and Ministers ?

Heres a suggestion as you have a lot of time on your hands how about helping them out and doing up the letters yourself, it is after all a Community effort and you claim to be part of the Community and you obviously have the communication skills just it seems you imho are using them in the wrong direction.

Let me just re-iterate something again. Eventhough my profile says "Moderator" I only moderate the Sports & Politics boards the only members of boards.ie/IOFFL who can change/delete posts & temp ban people are Bard & dahamsta and then the admins are the only people who can cancel an account. If DeVore does decide to delete an account its after and awful lot of consideration and the offender normally has been warned. People are normally booted for lack of respect of other members.

If you guys want to post, post something constructive.

Gandalf.

gandalf

Originally posted by Medion
Thanks for prompt response yet again friend and yes I have just emailed long time friend and requested hosting of independent forum for IOFFL.

I assume you have consulted the IOFFL Committee about this ??

Good point Skeptic! I seen now where you have gotten you name

Not all of those 25 posts were in conjunction with this issue!

I have only complained the once in my view about IOFFL's structure and I didn't create this thread either but I'm compelled to help as much as I can and that requires posting to find solutions.

Not from what I've read. You have fired up very few solutions.

I guess that it's just coincidence that both boards.ie moderators of this section went on Christmas holidays sometime after I joined IOFFL and this is the first thread to get through the net of censorship!

Its been explained before that they are IOFFL moderators. Whats your alternative, no moderators, I've been there and seen that it does not work.

Look @ the much traffic it's getting from members and look @ the much discussion that needs to be done yet. I can only guess from current opinion that as soon as they arrive back from holidays this thread will be locked or even worse for IOFFL deleted! We'd be stuck right back where we started with no action or movement on the issue.

Well tbh unless this thread is actually going anywhere which I believe it isn't then it probably will be closed.

Then when the mods delete this post they will try and pump misinformation and tell other members that nothing is happening within IOFFL and there nothing to report if you don't like to go home

Who are you ? Seriously I do not know you from Jack. Tell me why I and other IOFFL supporters should listen to one word you have fired up here.

I'm afraid that my friend wont receive my email until sometime tomorrow and I'm going to bed soon so I leave this threads to IOFFL members to discuss amongst themselves and I'll report back within next day or two and working Christmas eve is a hard day, I might not be here to keep you updated tomorrow.

Latter

Medion!

Lets be clear here. Did someone from IOFFL ask you to find an alternative host for the forums. If not why did you !!! If you have time to do constructive things then please contact the committee and ask them what you can do for them.

Gandalf.

Boston

Medion, i said i agreed with his right to voice an opinion, i didnt say i agreed with his opinion that the commite is ruled by a satanic overload and is the route of all evil

smokin' an'chewin' man, i posted that directly under your post, so yea i guess it was directed at you. but you clearly lack the capacity to understand anything i say

of all the moderators here i was the only one will to hear you out in a decent way, but now lad, your just pissing into the wind

MiCr0

Originally posted by Medion
Could boards.ie moderators and ranking members please try and refrain from posting arguments in support of boards.ie in this topic for the time being and let IOFFL members discuss IOFFL issue of way to going forward as this topic is civil and internal IOFFL discussion.

We do not need 5 moderators of boards.ie to dictate IOFFL direction to go to us.

what about when the mod's are memeber's if IOFFL with as much right to post as you?

NeilF

Will there be a Christmas Day Truce to this drivel?

MarcusGarvey

Am I glad I read all these posts. Bet Eircom is too.

DeVore

Medion you are a wet day in the place but you claim you know
that people are being kicked and banned and "silenced".
Thats a lot of information to have gathered in such a short timeframe so I thought I'd do a little info gathering myself.

Medions ip and dial up hostname:
194.125.139.140 (ts01-013.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.147 (ts01-020.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.193 (ts01-066.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.210 (ts01-083.letterkenny.indigo.ie)

Pragmaticas ip and dial up hostname:
194.125.139.143 (ts01-016.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.155 (ts01-028.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.156 (ts01-029.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.164 (ts01-037.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.165 (ts01-038.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.167 (ts01-040.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.191 (ts01-064.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.203 (ts01-076.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.204 (ts01-077.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.212 (ts01-085.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.223 (ts01-096.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.230 (ts01-103.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.234 (ts01-107.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.237 (ts01-110.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.239 (ts01-112.letterkenny.indigo.ie)
194.125.139.251 (ts01-124.letterkenny.indigo.ie)

I hate being lied to.


This is my final comment on this idiotic thread.
1. If you are seriously claiming you cant criticise IOFFL without being banned.... what the hell have you all been doing for the past 50 posts without anyone being banned? eh?

2. IOFFL is one of our busiest, if not our busiest, boards. How you can claim its being choked.

3. Ask yourselves this: What have YOU done for the campaign apart from whinge? I didnt see any of the whingers out on the blackout day handing out leaflets? I *did* see a lot of boards.ie mods and admins out tho. Maybe we were mind-controling the members to keep them away. Yes that must be it...


Medion, you didnt answer my questions... but here's a Ghandi for you anyway.



DeV.

Bard

S.A.C.M.: (referring to me)

So speaks the original control freak fascist. **** the members, they don't HAVE to join !

That is a direct insult and nothing more. I resent it, and you've misquoted me. I said that nobody is forcing you to POST. I said nothing about joining. This was particularly so in the case of MS, who believed that he had nothing useful/helpful to contribute but couldn't help posting anyway.

(Of course nobody IS forcing you to join - but the more members we have, the better.)

S.A.C.M.:

Does this guy even read what hes written before hes posted it ? the RIGHT kind of people ????? Unbelievable !!

Surely you can realise that, without being 'clique-ish', there are right people and wrong people for serviture on a committee. We hardly want some sort of riot-arranging petrol-bomb throwing activist on the committee (which a certain user on the boards was showing himself to be) - neither do we want a complete tactless idiot who openly insults the people we are trying to deal with at every opportunity (and there's plenty of those, believe me!).

I myself don't take a particularly active role on the committee. The reason for this is that I simply don't have either the time or the business know-how to do the job of dealing with these people. I write the web site and moderate the forum. That's it.

Medion: "I know that adam and bard do work hard as committee members and I wouldn't change them for anybody (great work guys)"

Thank you, Medion. That's the nicest thing I've seen you say... and I've seen you say some PARTICULARLY not-nice things!

Medion: "Nothing on agenda yet besides we are dictatorship - Bard"
Medion: "He even mention in this thread that this is dictatorship organization and if you don't like to you can leave IOFFL or Boards.ie and not be member."

Look, you lot... I wish you would STOP mis-quoting me. NEVER did I say that IrelandOFFLine is a dictatorship organisation. NEVER.

I said that, as had been said already on a number of occasions, the forums on boards.ie can be likened to a benevolent dictatorship. DO you need more explanation on that?

Unfortunately, the difference between the true hard-working organisation in the background and the flame-filled hate-fest discussion forum going on on here are becoming more and more apparent to me by the day.

Medion: "Thanks for prompt response yet again friend and yes I have just emailed long time friend and requested hosting of independent forum for IOFFL."

Who are you to do such a thing? You certainly haven't done that on our behalf. We're perfectly happy with the service boards.ie is providing. Please contact the committee before doing anything like that "for IOFFL".

Gandalf: Lets be clear here. Did someone from IOFFL ask you to find an alternative host for the forums. If not why did you !!! If you have time to do constructive things then please contact the committee and ask them what you can do for them.

Well said Gandalf.

Shinji: In fact, it's rather typically Irish. As soon as one man is willing to undertake to build something, there are ten men who've never built anything in their lives ready to knock it down.

WELL SAID THAT MAN SHINJI!

I find it happens far too often that my own countrymen manage to disgust me and make me wish I was born elsewhere. EVERYBODY's an expert, as they say. (FFS!) Let the committee get on with their own job and offer constructive criticisms and comments to HELP us achieve our goals- that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE!- rather than sitting on the fence bitching and moaning about lack of progress. If more people could work WITH IrelandOFFLine rather than trying to damage its name in so many ways, we'd have a better chance of success. As it is, it just seems like a lot of you don't give a damn, have forgotten what the real issues are, and are just intent on bringing the organisation down.

Gandalf: "Well tbh unless this thread is actually going anywhere which I believe it isn't then it probably will be closed."

How very true.

What has this thread got to do with the campaign for unmetered and broadband Internet access in Ireland? Zip. Nada. Nienté. NOTHING. Therefore it doesn't belong here and no, it won't last much longer. Get your few words in now... if you must! :rolleyes:

As has been said, if you have a problem with how any committee member is performing their duties, feel free to bring it up at the next public meeting (WHICH WILL NOT BE VERY FAR AWAY) and propose that they be VOTED OFF the committee.

I truly wish that this spate of immature and damaging message threads would come to an end.

Moriarty

Just for you medion & SACM...



Consider yourselves carded

Dustaz

Originally posted by Medion

Could boards.ie moderators and ranking members please try and refrain from posting arguments in support of boards.ie in this topic for the time being and let IOFFL members discuss IOFFL issue of way to going forward as this topic is civil and internal IOFFL discussion.

Wait, so any members of IOFFL or people who happen to post to boards as well are not allowed discuss this anymore? Are you trying to stifle free speech? You have just contradicted ENTIRE point about 'facist censorship'.
I reserve my right to post about this and any other issue here in a civil manner.

Normally people like you are amusing and usually lack the capacity to do any harm do anyone bar yourselves but this:

Originally posted by Medion

I am sending ODTR a copy off this topic to get there view on IOFFL method and asking advice on how or wher to go from here.

is downright insanity.
What possible reason do you have for doing this? lets look at the facts.
1. As pragmatica you post only disruptive and devisive posts. You are deleted from the forum (at your own say so I might add)

2. You come back as Medion and pretend that you are a new member 'concerned' with the way the organisation is run (Heh, nice one on the IP posting devore)

3. I looked at all your posts, 90% of them are in this forum for obvious reasons (although your not adverse to posting on other forums on boards even after all your whinging about boards people - Music/radio, PhantomFM being 2). Of the posts in this forum the ONLY posts that are over 2 lines long (and BOY are they over 2 lines long) are in threads that are taking a swing at the committee/boards/IOFFL.

Are you deliberatly trying to create trouble here? It certainly seems that way.

By all means , go and set up your paradise of free speech on another forum. I wish you the best of luck. Just do it sooner rather than later before you bore us all to death.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by NeilF
Will there be a Christmas Day Truce to this drivel?

I doubt it somehow.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Right lets face some facts.....


FACT:
Dictatorships have high levels of Personal Taxation-
ie- Money out of your pocket !

FACT:
Boards is a free service provided for you out of the pockets of others
ie- No Money out of your pocket !

If you dont like it STF up- the ppl who fork out the money make the rules and thats it- Its not a service you own- We are invitees onto the owners (cyber)land.
If I didn't like it I wouldn't hang around here- So all I can say is if any of you dont like it then go graze other pastures and stay the fúck away from the proactive processes of IrelandOffline!

PLAIN & SIMPLE !!

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by meglome

I am not a boards.ie admin just the moderator of another forum and have no actual affiliation with boards.ie whatsoever. Although Boards.ie is not a democracy is it a limited company owned and run by people out of their own pockets and I'm sure it costs plenty to run. This means they set the rules and we all either except or be dont post here.


And what "rules" are being broken here exactly ? When the community was set up no one said that members of IOFFL cannot criticise the committee of the policies to their hearts content. No one said that critical posts would be attacked by moderators from all over Boards.ie. No one said that critical threads would be locked and the moderators would continue to slate the posters inside these "locked" threads.


Again I say I don't see what your problem is here. I read this forum most days and post rarely so I believe I would have noticed all these issues before. If people have a problem with the committee then vote against them at the next meeting but stop the crazy ramblings in the meantime.


What ? Are you saying that the community set up for IOFFL does not allow members to discuss and criticise the committee and its actions ? What kind of nonsense is this ?


One last thing the reason you may find more replies from other moderators and admins is that we KNOW what it is like to moderate a forum like this one. If you only saw the crap that is posted sometimes on the Counter-Strike forum which I moderate. So sometimes the tolerance levels are low... tough.


Thats a pretty poor excuse for moderators from all over Boards.ie jumping all over members of a community for daring to criticise and discuss IOFFL business.

Also nowhere in your post does it show what kind of moderator you are and in my opinion you should not be contributing posts critical of IOFL members who are legitimately criticising IOFFL business using your moderator account as a stick.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The start for for you seems to be about two days ago. Since then you have made 25 posts most of which have been about not being allowed to speak.

In response to an avalanche of attacks from a herd of moderators trying to intimidate him and shut him up.

gandalf

SACM no one is saying that the committee cannot be criticised but some of these post are just plain unconstructive. Let me give you some advice a Manager of mine did years ago and it has stood me well. If you are going to criticise or point out a problem make sure you have a solution to offer as well.

Most of these downtrodden members that you talk about are whinging for whinging sake nothing else. They are offering nothing, absolutely nothing to the cause. I for one would stand up and take notice of someone if they came on and said "The Committee are wrong and heres how to fix it etc." but coming on and saying "the committee are wrong and their excuse they have a real-life doesn't matter" is pathetic, these people are doing this for FREE.

Again back to your problems with Moderators from Boards.ie posting or replying to these threads. We have a interest in this campaign like every Irish Internet user. I spend £300+ every bill mainly for internet access, I want the same broadband access for less than half the cost that friends of mine have in the UK and the Continent. IOFFL imho will help to deliver this. Sorry if my posting here is ruffling your feathers but I will continue posting and criticising people who only interest is to stir up trouble. On USENET there is a term for people who do that its called a Troll.

Gandalf.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by gandalf
I quite curious to find out your real reason for starting up this whinge SACM. As for Medion I feel he has an alterior motive for his comments.


Another moderator slurring legitimate criticism as 'whinging'.


A lot of organisations would love to see IOFFL falling flat on their faces and this kind of unhelpful criticism is not going to further the cause.


All organisations need to have open and honest discussion if they are to have any hope to succeeding. What do you think these other orgs will think of a pressure group that doesn't allow any members to criticise the actions of it's committee ? how long will they pay ANY attention to such an undemocratic group of people ? remember there are NO real world meeting of the IOFFL so this board is the ONLY place people can discuss and criticise.


Please do not tell me that I cannot post here. Yes I am a Boards.ie moderator but I have no power to moderate here (only Politics & Sport).


No one told you NOT to post. We asked that moderators who wish to contribute to threads should not use the authoritarian stick of their moderatorship when they attack contributors who criticise the IOFFL, its committee and its moderators. They should post under a personal identity.


Some time ago one of the committee members posted telling people not to expect alot of information or action over the coming months, an awful lot of people seem to have forgotten or not seen that comment.


It hasnt been forgotten. Did it ever occur to you that it is not necessarily acceptible ? the committee are elected to ACT, not to oversee several months inactivity while no information is forthcoming to the members on a whole host of issues. If individual members are too busy they should withdraw and allow others to take their place. I am others appreciate committee members work for the IOFFL, but at the same time do not think that business should halt because they are too busy.
I would join any committee in this struggle if I didnt work in a company deeply involved with the "other" side.


If you have a problem then make a constructive comment. Ones like Heres a suggestion as you have a lot of time on your hands how about helping them out and doing up the letters yourself, it is after all a Community effort and you claim to be part of the Community and you obviously have the communication skills just it seems you imho are using them in the wrong direction.


Say who ? YOU ? unlike you I have respect for others opinions, but I also am entitled to mine. Mine are critical of the committee and the gross inactivity over the last several months. You can call that negative or destructive or whatever you like, but you have no right to tell me not to express my opinion.


Let me just re-iterate something again. Eventhough my profile says "Moderator" I only moderate the Sports & Politics boards the only members of boards.ie/IOFFL who can change/delete posts & temp ban people are Bard & dahamsta and then the admins are the only people who can cancel an account. If DeVore does decide to delete an account its after and awful lot of consideration and the offender normally has been warned. People are normally booted for lack of respect of other members.


Then post under a personal account. 99% of visitors have no clue whether you are a mod of IOFFL or not and your label is intimidating, as it is intended to me.
Also the complaints were not about canclelling accounts, but canclelling threads and attacking legitimate criticism.


If you guys want to post, post something constructive.
Gandalf.


Thanks but no thanks. This is not a religious community or a personal cult. It's a pressure group set up by members who have opinions and a right to discuss them.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by gandalf

I assume you have consulted the IOFFL Committee about this ??


Why ? is that new rule you have made ? he's be pretty incompetent if he suggested a new host to the committee without checking up on it first.


Well tbh unless this thread is actually going anywhere which I believe it isn't then it probably will be closed.


That's the most astonishing and arrogant attitude imaginable and speaks VOLUMES about the attitude of this committee toward it's members.

I am shocked at this utter dismissal of legitimate criticism and the committee of the IOFFL should be ashamed of itself, it appears to be sadly going down the tubes fast.

Where exactly must the thread go to gain approval ? YOUR way I gather ? What arrogance !


Who are you ? Seriously I do not know you from Jack. Tell me why I and other IOFFL supporters should listen to one word you have fired up here.


He is a member and as such has an equal right to express himself as you do. Who are YOU to tell members what they can and cannot say ?


Lets be clear here. Did someone from IOFFL ask you to find an alternative host for the forums. If not why did you !!!


Why shouldnt he ? hes not on some kind of power trip.

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by DeVore
Medion you are a wet day in the place but you claim you know
that people are being kicked and banned and "silenced".


My understanding is that his and my complaints in this regard referred to threads being choked, as opposed to people being banned. Correct me if Im wrong


Thats a lot of information to have gathered in such a short timeframe so I thought I'd do a little info gathering myself.


Im loath to respond to this display of power in a way that might provoke the kinds of threats already made by you against critics in this thread previously.


I hate being lied to.


.......


This is my final comment on this idiotic thread.
1. If you are seriously claiming you cant criticise IOFFL without being banned.... what the hell have you all been doing for the past 50 posts without anyone being banned? eh?


Defending himself and me against the blistering avalanche of abuse and arrogant aggression launched against us mainly by moderators.


2. IOFFL is one of our busiest, if not our busiest, boards. How you can claim its being choked.


Any cursory glance though the board and its locked threads and threatening posts from committee members and moderators against anyone not toeing the line and criticising the committee.


3. Ask yourselves this: What have YOU done for the campaign apart from whinge? I didnt see any of the whingers out on the blackout day handing out leaflets? I *did* see a lot of boards.ie mods and admins out tho. Maybe we were mind-controling the members to keep them away. Yes that must be it...


Being an activist may make you admirable for your support of IOFFL, but it doesn't give you the right to abuse other members differing opinions as "whinging" or otherwise in such an arrogant fashion. Though it doesnt surprise me that member might avoid your company.

seamus

I have seen some serious insanity in this thread. FFS

Let me get this straight SACM - What the mods consider 'whingeing', you call in 'legitimate criticism'. Well, OK. But when a mod legitimately criticises you and your opinions thats a 'choking dictatorship'.

And why should mods post under an alternate identity? It says on the forum "Ireland Offline - moderated by Bard and dahamsta", no-one else. Fine, it can be intimidating when someone with the word Moderator under their name criticises your post, but you'll find that they rarely make a bad point. Most mods on boards.ie were appointed by DeVore beacuse they showed they had good knowledge of the boards, were fairly intelligent, and were interested in the smooth running of the boards. They have had to deal with trolls and uncivilised crap on their own boards, so this is nothing new. Hence why they usually seem to have a sane, thought-out and reasonable response. Fine, we could have rules that ban mods from criticising ppl on boards other than their own, but that would be akin to reasoning, 'Why should I report someone for robbing a shop? Thats the Gardai's job'.

Gah, I didn't want to reply to this thread. Anyway, lets hope it all comes to a head in this thread.

[edit goddamit.:

It just seems to me that the people complaining about being 'oppressed' are ppl with small post counts. I'm not promoting the 'I've got a higher post count than you' attitude here, but those posts count for something. They've been here longer, have more experience as regards ettiquette(sic) and what does and does not go. Obviously they are no higher than anyone else, but would they really have posted that much if there was something oppressive about the administration? As for most threads containing mods and admins banning/flaming ppl, you may notice that they didn't start the flaming ]

gandalf

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man

Another moderator slurring legitimate criticism as 'whinging'.

Thats your response. Thats it. I am posting this a supporter of IOFFL. I am not a moderator on this board. If you have a problem with our titles then maybe DeVore will change it to "tulip" or something that won't offend you so easily.

All organisations need to have open and honest discussion if they are to have any hope to succeeding. What do you think these other orgs will think of a pressure group that doesn't allow any members to criticise the actions of it's committee ? how long will they pay ANY attention to such an undemocratic group of people ? remember there are NO real world meeting of the IOFFL so this board is the ONLY place people can discuss and criticise.

OK heres where we start to differ again. Yes organisations need to have open and honest discussion. Alot of what has been posted on these boards by certain elements has been unhelpful. Then again an awful lot of useful discussion has occured on these boards as well. What so you want a free for all, I've been on unmoderated boards before and I have seen the drivel that has been posted on them. Boards.ie in its previous guise was nearly shut down because of legal action before. Thats why each forum has voluntary moderators.

Hang on there have been real-life meetings, 2 infact both of which unfortunately I did not get a chance to go to. In the first meeting afaik most of the current committee were voted in by those who attended. So tell me does that look like an undemocratic organisation. Also what is stopping you meeting up with people from the forum in real life.

No one told you NOT to post. We asked that moderators who wish to contribute to threads should not use the authoritarian stick of their moderatorship when they attack contributors who criticise the IOFFL, its committee and its moderators. They should post under a personal identity.

This is my personal identity and has been online for 6 years I'm not going to change it because your getting all fluffy bunny thinking I'm a facist oppressor. What authoritarian stick, man you should stop reading George Orwell late at night

It hasnt been forgotten. Did it ever occur to you that it is not necessarily acceptible ? the committee are elected to ACT, not to oversee several months inactivity while no information is forthcoming to the members on a whole host of issues. If individual members are too busy they should withdraw and allow others to take their place. I am others appreciate committee members work for the IOFFL, but at the same time do not think that business should halt because they are too busy.
I would join any committee in this struggle if I didnt work in a company deeply involved with the "other" side.

Alot of things are unacceptable but as someone who is working with the "other" side you know that with outstanding legal action between Eircom and the ODTR unresolved not alot is going to happen. Also with the government sidelining the Communications Bill until after the election the ODTR will not have the big stick to force Unbundling at a economic rate.

BTW as you admit working for the "other" side I am now wondering if you should be posting here. Are you trying to throw a spanner in the works by stirring up unrest? (See I can wear the conspiracy theory cap too)

Say who ? YOU ? unlike you I have respect for others opinions, but I also am entitled to mine. Mine are critical of the committee and the gross inactivity over the last several months. You can call that negative or destructive or whatever you like, but you have no right to tell me not to express my opinion.

Yes I do your telling me how to express mine. Your telling me that I have to change my identity to confirm to your rules. Also show me where I do not have respect for others opinions, quote me please.

Then post under a personal account. 99% of visitors have no clue whether you are a mod of IOFFL or not and your label is intimidating, as it is intended to me.
Also the complaints were not about canclelling accounts, but canclelling threads and attacking legitimate criticism.

Again no way. This is my online Identity on Boards.ie and on IOFFL. As regards deleting of posts etc take that up with the moderators of this board and not me.

Thanks but no thanks. This is not a religious community or a personal cult. It's a pressure group set up by members who have opinions and a right to discuss them. [/B]

So your not going to post anything constructive.

I do actually reakon you have an alterior motive here.

Gandalf.

smokin' an'chewin' man

"So speaks the original control freak fascist. **** the members, they don't HAVE to join !"


That is a direct insult and nothing more.


It's not a direct insult at all. It is a commentary on your arrogant behaviour and attitude.


I resent it, and you've misquoted me. I said that nobody is forcing you to POST.


"Does this guy even read what hes written before hes posted it ? the RIGHT kind of people ????? Unbelievable !!"

Surely you can realise that, without being 'clique-ish', there are right people and wrong people for serviture on a committee. We hardly want some sort of riot-arranging petrol-bomb throwing activist on the committee (which a certain user on the boards was showing himself to be) - neither do we want a complete tactless idiot who openly insults the people we are trying to deal with at every opportunity (and there's plenty of those, believe me!).


Its quite transparent what you meant and mean. YOU expect to be the judge of all that is constructive, positive and acceptible.


Look, you lot... I wish you would STOP mis-quoting me. NEVER did I say that IrelandOFFLine is a dictatorship organisation. NEVER.

I said that, as had been said already on a number of occasions, the forums on boards.ie can be likened to a benevolent dictatorship. DO you need more explanation on that?


Dictatorship :::: Benevolant Dictatorship.

At least you are consistent in your arrogant attitude.


Unfortunately, the difference between the true hard-working organisation in the background and the flame-filled hate-fest discussion forum going on on here are becoming more and more apparent to me by the day.


And to many of the members. You repeatedly claim there is "hard work" going on but no one is telling the members anything. When they criticise this you attack them and call their legitimate criticism "flame fests".
What hard work ? Why is there no information from the committee on all of this work ? ever !

Medion: "Thanks for prompt response yet again friend and yes I have just emailed long time friend and requested hosting of independent forum for IOFFL."

Well done Medion. Perhaps that can be put to the members if there is ever another meeting. Unless the Bard and his pals stand at the door and only let the "right" people in.

I find it happens far too often that my own countrymen manage to disgust me and make me wish I was born elsewhere.


And we are disgusted when our countrymen go on power trips and hijack a pressure group set up by concerned people as their own little empire, attacking anyone who disagrees or criticises.

Let the committee get on with their own job and offer constructive criticisms and comments to HELP us achieve our goals- that's the way it's SUPPOSED TO BE!


Says who ? You ? What job is being done ? is what we are asking. whats happening ? what were the responses and results of the work in September, October, November and December ? Why is no one telling the members anything ? Why is nothing happening ?


If more people could work WITH IrelandOFFLine rather than trying to damage its name in so many ways, we'd have a better chance of success.


We would have a better chance of success if we didn't have little power driven dictators always trying to shut people up by abusing their views and locking legitimate discussions.

Gandalf: "Well tbh unless this thread is actually going anywhere which I believe it isn't then it probably will be closed."

How very true.


Here we go...........


What has this thread got to do with the campaign for unmetered and broadband Internet access in Ireland? Zip. Nada. Nienté. NOTHING. Therefore it doesn't belong here and no, it won't last much longer. Get your few words in now... if you must! :rolleyes:


Yes it is coming. Another mugging of members discussion because the moderators wont accept critical discussions.

This behaviour by the IOFFL commitee and its moderators is a disgraceful and arrogant attack on members ability to free speech and free discussion of the issues. This thread has been attacked at every turn and members have on the whole been intimidated against even taking part in this thread by the arrogance of a group of moderators.

It is a disgrace and the IOFFL should be ashamed of itself.

If we had any kin of reputation it is being shredded here on these boards. Shredded by a committee trying to drown out the voice of its members with attack upon attack on their freedom to express their opinions and by the locking of discussions they initiate.


As has been said, if you have a problem with how any committee member is performing their duties, feel free to bring it up at the next public meeting (WHICH WILL NOT BE VERY FAR AWAY) and propose that they be VOTED OFF the committee.


Where and when was it decided that the boards community was not for free and open discussion of the issues ? that is how the IOFFL has promoted it. When was it decided that this was to be changed ?


I truly wish that this spate of immature and damaging message threads would come to an end.

I wish that this spate of immature arrogant and dictatorial attacks by the commitee and its moderators on members trying to carry on a simple critical thread about committee actions would stop.

gandalf

Originally posted by smokin' an'chewin' man

Why ? is that new rule you have made ? he's be pretty incompetent if he suggested a new host to the committee without checking up on it first.

Well he announced it publically didn't he !

That's the most astonishing and arrogant attitude imaginable and speaks VOLUMES about the attitude of this committee toward it's members.

I am shocked at this utter dismissal of legitimate criticism and the committee of the IOFFL should be ashamed of itself, it appears to be sadly going down the tubes fast.

Where exactly must the thread go to gain approval ? YOUR way I gather ? What arrogance !

Tell me how THIS thread is going to help us get affordable unmetered Internet access. Well ?? Tell me how it is arrogant of me and others to point this out.

Have you tried to email members of the committee with a reasoned mail sharing your concerns at the lack of information/action in recent times or did you just jump on the wagon here? Sorry am I been arrogant again !!!!

He is a member and as such has an equal right to express himself as you do. Who are YOU to tell members what they can and cannot say ?

I am a concerned member (not a moderator of this board) myself trying to make sure he has no alterior motives. Is that wrong ?

Why shouldnt he ? hes not on some kind of power trip.

Well hes assuming that the IOFFL committee wants to move or maybe he's going to split and set up the Provisional IOFFL. Again you normally consult with people or say nothing until your sure its available before posting it on a public forum.

I would say he was quite reckless and arrogant to make representations to others on behalf of IOFFL without their knowledge wouldn't you ??

Gandalf(un-moderator of the IOFFL forums).

smokin' an'chewin' man

Originally posted by gandalf
SACM no one is saying that the committee cannot be criticised


That's exactly what you and others are saying.


but some of these post are just plain unconstructive.


In whose opinion ? not the members posting.


Let me give you some advice a Manager of mine did years ago and it has stood me well. If you are going to criticise or point out a problem make sure you have a solution to offer as well.

You worked for your manager. We dont work for you.


Most of these downtrodden members that you talk about are whinging for whinging sake nothing else. They are offering nothing, absolutely nothing to the cause. I


Here we go again. Criticism = whinging. The standard response.


for one would stand up and take notice of someone if they came on and said "The Committee are wrong and heres how to fix it etc." but coming on and saying "the committee are wrong and their excuse they have a real-life doesn't matter" is pathetic, these people are doing this for FREE.


So ? they volunteered !!

All we have tried to do is ask questions. Why no information ? why no action ? why no feedback ? why no meetigs ? why why why why ? and..........why lock criticism threads ? why attack critical posts ? why the abuse and arrogant dictatorial slurring of members trying to carry on legitimate threads ?


I spend £300+ every bill mainly for internet access, I want the same broadband access for less than half the cost that friends of mine have in the UK and the Continent. IOFFL imho will help to deliver this.


Then stop trying to shut people up who disagree about how the effort is being implemented.


Sorry if my posting here is ruffling your feathers but I will continue posting and criticising people who only interest is to stir up trouble.

The VERY RIGHT that members are trying to exercise against the attacks you and others are making !!! A right that YOU are insisting in KEEPING !!!


On USENET there is a term for people who do that its called a Troll.


How arrogant. How arrogant you are in dealing with legitimate members of the IOFFL who simply want to carry on a thread discussing concerns and criticisms we have about how the IOFFL is operated.


The IOFFL should be ashamed of itself.