US people.. you messed up on the USA act

Hobbes

and lost your 4th amendment. Prehaps you should do something about the new act the goverment is trying to pass before it also comes into law.

"Model Emergency Health Powers Act". I'm still looking for the bill in http://thomas.loc.gov but from what I read on the news sites this is what you have to look forward to.

1. Unrestricted power of the governor to declare an emergency at his own discretion, without consulting anyone, and the legislature would have no right to interfere for at least 60 days. And even after that deadline, a two-thirds vote of both chambers would be needed to block the dictatorial powers.

2. The ability of the government to take over private facilities, including hospitals and clinics, and to seize any property claimed necessary in an emergency.

3. The right to impose rationing, quotas and price controls, and to control the use or transportation of any item deemed essential, under the direction of un-elected political appointees acting with virtually complete immunity.

4. The authority to suspend any rule or regulation that hindered the program.

5. (this one is the best) The criminalization of refusal by physicians to serve or by patients to accept vaccination prescribed by the governor or his deputies.

Yep you can be put in jail for not taking your medicine.

It's like watching an episode of the X-Files.

TwoShedsJackson

I think number 4 is best actually. You need a nice vague law like that so you can do whatever you like

Winning Hand

Suddenly Stalin seems almost quaint.

However it seems a bit extreme to be true, and if it is itll probably be hacked to bits in the different houses and comes out something like this

1. Unrestricted power of the governor to decide what to have for dinner, without consulting anyone.

2. The ability of the government to take over public facilities such as highways (which were initially built for a military application) public parks near military installations.

3. Seems a reasonable law to have in effect in a state of emergency

4. You mean they havent done that before?!?!?!?!?!

5. Immunity from prosecution for those who administer the vaccine.

Hobbes

The bill is quite real.

H.R.3448.EAS
S.1765.PCS


Go look them up on http://thomas.loc.gov/

The USA act was the same sort of thing. Too incredible to be true, but there you go.

JustHalf

Originally posted by Winning Hand
Suddenly Stalin seems almost quaint.

You are a very sick, sick, sick person to make such a comparison.

Millions of people died at the hands of Stalin. Millions more suffered horribly. Stalin was an evil man, guilty of some of the worst human rights abuses ever to occur on this planet. To compare this legislation to the actions of Stalin is to lose all sense of scale - and what's worse, you imply that it is worse.

Though I believe that some of the legislation being passed through the US at the moment extends the powers of the state too much, it is a far FAR cry from the actions of Stalin.

Winning Hand

To compare this legislation to the actions of Stalin is to lose all sense of scale - and what's worse, you imply that it is worse.

Indeed, and had I meant it it probably would, probably should of added a smiley or two.

However the legislation as hobbes puts it goes along way to allowing some rich psycho get into a position of total power, makes it very easy for said person to carry out their agenda (entertain the thought of a white supremacist with those powers and what they could do with them) with total immunity.

Zombrex

wasn't this the way the smoking man and co would let the aliens take us over in the X-Files movies...mulder come back and save us all!!!!

well they ain't getting the TV!!!

American

Far as I can tell, you all are referring to a bill introduced in our Senate, which is mainly sponsored by Democrats and RINO's (Republican in Name Only). And the other bill you are referring to is an amendment that the Democrats in the House have submitted to the bill in the House, i.e. Bioterrorism Preparedness Act of 2001 (Engrossed Senate Amendment)[H.R.3448.EAS]

I will bet a lot that the House, which is controlled by the Republicans, will never pass any measure that forces any citizen to take an immunization ('vaccine') that they are opposed to. And most, if not all, of the other objectionable measures will be cleaned up, too.

Why don't you wait for the finished product? Or is it more fun to drum things that may not end up true into people's heads early so they later think it is true?

Hobbes

Well to be honest, I just guessed it was those two bills. As I said the goverment have a habit of naming a bill publically diffeferent to the actual bill (I couldn't find the USA act in thomas.loc.gov until someone posted the real name of it).

Story was from here.

Your right American, wait until it passes into law when you can no longer do anything about it. That's the best way to handle things?

Bluehair

Originally posted by American
I will bet a lot that the House.....<etc etc>............be cleaned up, too.

Really? OK I will take that bet How much do ya fancy? Given the current state of affairs nothing thats contained in the above bills getting though should surprise anyone. The US government is captailising heavily on the 'patriot(sp?)/anti-terrorism' card and it seems to allow *anything*. Plus if you have the balls to object you are immediatly vilified as anti-american and/or supporting/allowing the terrorists a free hand.

What is especially sad is that by objecting to this nonsense and supporting the laws as laid down by our forefathers we would be protected whats great about the US (freedom of speech, of association etc. etc. etc.)

American

Originally posted by Bluehair

Really? OK I will take that bet How much do ya fancy?

Spell out one by one the provisions you object to, and I will give odds on whether they will survive.

bonkey

Originally posted by Hobbes

1. Unrestricted power of the governor to declare an emergency at his own discretion, without consulting anyone, and the legislature would have no right to interfere for at least 60 days.

4. The authority to suspend any rule or regulation that hindered the program.

Combine these, and the governor has the right to suspend the rule which allows interference after 60 days, effectively hamstringing the government by its own rulings.

Sure - this may not have passed in to law, and as American rightly points out we need to wait and see, but I have a very simple question :

What are the morons who composed the bill in its initial form doing in government? People who deliberately draft a bill who's basic structure is so fatally flawed it is basically allowing the change from a democracy to a police state should the governer decide the need exists.

OK - on one hand its like making a budget - you deliberately put in bits which you know will be cut out, hoping that the other "borderline" bits you really want will get ignored (and thus, left in) because they're far less extreme than the deliberate cannon-fodder.

Its standard practice....but to me, the "cannon fodder" bits of this bill are akin to me budgeting for the research, development and construction of a hot-fusion power station in order to supply my office's power needs.

What worries me is that in uncertain or interesting times, people do stupid things like pass these bills because they need to be seen to be proactive or something.

jc

Evil Phil

The Department of Health in any country has massive powers. Our own DoH in Ireland can slap anybody in quarintine for 60 days if they say it's required. Only they can reverse the decision. I'm sure they have powers to force immunisation too. It's nothing strange and if you think about from an administrative point of view, it's probably a good idea.

Now I'm not siding with the Draconian laws that seem to popping up, and not only in America, since September the 11th. I'm just saying that forced immunisation could be a good thing, I'd prefer immunisation or quarintine myself cos then you have a choice. But what if some nutter releases a virus and it goes on the rampage. It could threaten us as a species and immunisation would one of the main lines of defense. Work case scenario there true. But then there's human bio-bombs, they don't crash jets but the spend 6 weeks spreading an illness until they succumb to it themselves. Health laws can be scary, but only cos they need to be.

The rest seem like a typical knee jerk reaction. I'm with American on this one, wait and see what happens. I really don't think intelligent people would do those things to their country.