Stop Fighting!

Marcus_Banned

Hi and a Happy Christmas to you all. I am new to this Board thing. Do not get me wrong I am not new to what is said on them. Just new to actually being here and posting on it. I left school when I was 9 and became one with my wheelchair. And I am what you might say a somewhat uneducated person. I am a lot older and wiser now but stillsomewhat uneducated by your standards I have just spent the last few
hours reading posts, drinking a few beers and since I am on my own andI have nothing else to do but sit in my wheelchair and drink and read.
I have decided to say a few words. I think it is great that you have formed a body of people to show Eircom their unjust ways. But at what
cost to everyone. You fight and quarrel amoungst yourselves, you kick
and ban people for haveing an opinion of their own. You dissallow
freedom of speech for everyone, you allow some people to become Gods
and then let them have absolute power and expect them not to become
corrupt by it ? If I worked for Eircom this is exactly the sorth of
thing I would want to happen. Everyone fighting amoungst themselves
this is exactly the sorth of thing I would want to happen. Everyone
fighting amoungst themselves. I do not know the full story of what
has happened here and I know my opinion will mean diddly squat to
everyone. But I have to say this. Stop Fighting amongst each other.
Stop denying people of their right to freedome of Speech. If you have
taken this away, give it back to the people you have denied it from
and work as One! For what you have set out to do in the first place.
Or have ye forgotten what that was ? This will be my one and only post
to here becaouse I have read the Mods posts too and some of them want
to get rid of the 0 posters. I have to say that all this reading passed the last few hours for me and I am gratefull. But
I am ashamed to see you all fight amongst yourselves. Do what
you all came here to do and Fight by all means but STOP directing
it at each other. Several people have been banned from here for forming their own opinions or whatever. Its time ye grew up listened and learned.

Just knocked over my last beer! DAMN

GoneShootin

await responses with baited breath

Boston

maybe your slightly dense, i dont know, but we (and i think i can speak for allmost everyone here) would rather these topics stay the hell out of the ioffl forum, and allow us(as in the members) to get on with the business at hand

MarcusGarvey

My Opinion:

Fair enough Marcus, everyones views should be listened to. However recently there have been some people who were upset with the situation and aired their views and some people replied to them. Nothing wrong with that, the person that expressed their unhappiness should have respected other peoples view on this too. However what could have been a mature debate turned into a childish and peevish fight.

Peoples views are important but when debate turns into what happened over the past few days its not worth it to allow it to continue. The boards have rules, like society itself. Some people can't respect that and cause disruption to others and this needs to be dealt with. It can be called censorship or impinging on freedom of speech or being heavy handed or many other things but like society there needs to be ways to deal with people that continually reoffend and break rules. Banning is one of the options available to the boards.ie administrators. In an ideal worlds there would be no need to have moderators on the forums but this world is far from ideal and moderators are required to steer people the right way and let them know when they are stepping over the line.

I think the members that were banned should seriously consider the way they interact with people, take some time out and then come back and work within the rules of the forums. I myself agreed with what some of these peoole had to say about what is or isn't getting done but the way they reacted after this was unacceptable. There have been members banned before for causing disruption and hurling perosnal insults on the IrelandOffline forums (Gladiator being a very famous example ) and they came back and behaved a lot better under a new membername after taking a timeout.

These forums have rules and if people can't work within them then they should perhaps seek out someother place that they can feel more comfortable with.

Boston:
No need to call the new poster dense. As a boards moderator your reply should have been a bit more mature than that. Also I don't think you can speak for almost everyone here, maybe a committee member has this right but I have never authorised you to represent my views and unless the majority of posters have explicity stated that they would like you to represent their views I do no think you can take that liberty.

Matfinn

Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
maybe your slightly dense, i dont know, but we (and i think i can speak for allmost everyone here) would rather these topics stay the hell out of the ioffl forum, and allow us(as in the members) to get on with the business at hand

Not a nice reply to get at all. The intentions of Marcus were only good in this case, and he does make a very valid point. An unfair reply if you ask me. Not nice!

Matt

dahamsta

Marcus is quite probably MS (Mike).

adam

Boston

o, i didnt know it was Ms, he concerns me not, i thought it was the other guy.
either which way, im sick of reading this stuff

Bard

The fact that this "Marcus" person follows the typical traits of saying "hi I'm very new here" and following that up with what they know about the board (people being banned, bad vibes, arguments going on) points at this not being a new person.

The fact that his IP address is incredibly similar to that of the now-demised user "MS" adds fuel to that fire.

MarcusGarvey, however, puts it brilliantly and I agree with him.

Matfinn

Originally posted by Bard
The fact that his IP address is incredibly similar to that of the now-demised user "MS" adds fuel to that fire.

Just a question. How can you tell if a person is posting under a different name by comparing IP addresses? Arent IP addresses dynamic? They change all the time everytime we are lucky enough to connect to the net. Just curious.

Matt

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Matfinn
Not a nice reply to get at all. The intentions of Marcus were only good in this case, and he does make a very valid point. An unfair reply if you ask me. Not nice!

I see contradictions in Marcus' post. On the one hand he is arguing for freedom of speech and on the other hand he is appealing to people to stop fighting. But 'fighting' on a message board is simply arguing (speech).

Marcus wants to be able to post this sort of stuff that doesn't make a lot of sense and at the same time he doesn't want arguing against it (curtailment of free speech).

In fact, the contradictions in the his post are likely cause people to post more flames in response. This in turn will cause MS to accuse us of jumping on him.

gandalf

Well as I was one of the people "argueing" I will say this and no more. People can criticise in a civilised and constructive manner with no problem here. People coming on and whinging with no proper solution are fair game.

Gandalf. (not a IOFFL forum Moderator)

ando

i'm sick of topics like this filling the forum. its irrelivent, selfish babble and is only denting the cause

chernobyl

Originally posted by Matfinn


Just a question. How can you tell if a person is posting under a different name by comparing IP addresses? Arent IP addresses dynamic? They change all the time everytime we are lucky enough to connect to the net. Just curious.

Matt

they are dynamic but not completely random.
(ie)
my ip is always in the 194.165.162.XX range.
the .162 only changes on the very rare, 20 "dial up's" occasions.

[edit]now let the haxoring off my puter begin[/edit]

dahamsta

i'm sick of topics like this filling the forum. its irrelivent, selfish babble and is only denting the cause

I agree with you 100% ando. So do all of the IrelandOffline committee members that are around at the moment. So do most of the IrelandOffline members that I know. Unfortunately, whenever we try and do something about it, we're accused of being fascist; and of trying to dent free speech. Usually by the people responsible, it has to be said, but since they are able to come back again and again under different handles, and the membership are unable to see this (through no fault of their own), we have to suffer on. Suggestions that have been tabled in the past few days have been full moderation of the forum; appointing other moderators; setting up a second, fully moderated forum and leaving this one as is; and even shutting down the forum entirely. None of the suggestions are particularly appetising, and all of them /will/ in fact curtail free speech to varying degrees. All of this is the end result of the disruptive behaviour of a few. Three in particular: 1) MS, who seems to have numerous personalities and is unable to control his emotions; 2) Pragmatica/Medion, who is a lot like MS but worse in my opinion; and 3) SACM, who has been disruptive since day one, and has never to my knowledge contributed anything to the community. Me, I don't particularly want to be a moderator any more, since no matter what I do, I'm wrong in someone's eyes. I can't speak for Niall, but I think he feels the same way. This behaviour is threatening the very existance of IrelandOffline, all based on one simple fact: There is nothing to report at the moment, and there won't be for a week or two. As far as I'm concerned, if the community isn't happy about that, well, tough, because there's nothing that will change about that. We're voluntary, we have lives to lead and Christmas' to be enjoyed, just like the rest of you. I would suggest that MS, Pragmatica and SACM go and set up their own group, and bitch at each other. Seems like the perfect solution to me. I'm still going to enjoy my Christmas anyway, whether or which. I refuse to let ignorant people damage my fun. Eircom et al have done that long enough.

adam

GoneShootin

here here

suggestion for all users, perhaps you should check the irelandoffline site for news and THEN have discussions on the news

rather than giving out because nothing is happening. if you want something to happen, go do it, i dont know how adam manages to stay sane....

Boston

Originally posted by dahamsta
i'm sick of topics like this filling the forum. its irrelivent, selfish babble and is only denting the cause

I agree with you 100% ando. So do all of the IrelandOffline committee members that are around at the moment. So do most of the IrelandOffline members that I know. Unfortunately, whenever we try and do something about it, we're accused of being fascist; and of trying to dent free speech. Usually by the people responsible, it has to be said, but since they are able to come back again and again under different handles, and the membership are unable to see this (through no fault of their own), we have to suffer on. Suggestions that have been tabled in the past few days have been full moderation of the forum; appointing other moderators; setting up a second, fully moderated forum and leaving this one as is; and even shutting down the forum entirely. None of the suggestions are particularly appetising, and all of them /will/ in fact curtail free speech to varying degrees. All of this is the end result of the disruptive behaviour of a few. Three in particular: 1) MS, who seems to have numerous personalities and is unable to control his emotions; 2) Pragmatica/Medion, who is a lot like MS but worse in my opinion; and 3) SACM, who has been disruptive since day one, and has never to my knowledge contributed anything to the community. Me, I don't particularly want to be a moderator any more, since no matter what I do, I'm wrong in someone's eyes. I can't speak for Niall, but I think he feels the same way. This behaviour is threatening the very existance of IrelandOffline, all based on one simple fact: There is nothing to report at the moment, and there won't be for a week or two. As far as I'm concerned, if the community isn't happy about that, well, tough, because there's nothing that will change about that. We're voluntary, we have lives to lead and Christmas' to be enjoyed, just like the rest of you. I would suggest that MS, Pragmatica and SACM go and set up their own group, and bitch at each other. Seems like the perfect solution to me. I'm still going to enjoy my Christmas anyway, whether or which. I refuse to let ignorant people damage my fun. Eircom et al have done that long enough.

adam

you still think i went overboad MarcusGarvey. let no one here underestimate the seriousness of what is happening here

DeVore

I take grave exception to this.

you kick
and ban people for haveing an opinion of their own. You dissallow
freedom of speech for everyone

Can you please back this up?
Exactly who has been kicked and banned for having an opinion of their own. Who's freedom of speech if being disallowed?

Name them.

I really take umbrage with your side swipes. I've fought for a large part of my adult life for freedom of speech, put my money and time where my mouth is. How dare you.

The problem round here is NOT a lack of freedom of speech but a lack of any concept of when to voluntarily *shut up*.

DeVore.

MarcusGarvey

Originally posted by Bard
MarcusGarvey, however, puts it brilliantly and I agree with him.

Well thanks

Originally posted by Bard
you still think i went overboad MarcusGarvey.

I'm afraid I do «Bo§ton», while Marcus has the same writing style as MS or Pragmatica or Medion or whoever , it was not 100% assured it was him/them. Innocent until proved guilty etc. You also got personal with the person which is not very professional now is it ? Its only a minor point though.

By the way Dev I love the Fightclub quote. I miss my copy of the book which is years old now and apparently is in Germany ! hate that.

Boston

it certainly is very minor, i wont be loosing to much sleep over it.

PiE

Originally posted by DeVore
The problem round here is NOT a lack of freedom of speech but a lack of any concept of when to voluntarily *shut up*.

GoneShootin

*sob* wont anyone think of the children ??

if this forum heads the same way as CS does god help us all.

imagine an eircom worker appointed to keep a tab on the goings on of IOFFL and this forum, would he/she not have a good laugh to see us fighting amongst ourselves ?

Dustaz

Originally posted by Gone Shootin

if this forum heads the same way as CS does god help us all.

Unlilkely, as the average age of the posters here is approx 10 years older (altho lately, you wouldnt know that)

imagine an eircom worker appointed to keep a tab on the goings on of IOFFL and this forum, would he/she not have a good laugh to see us fighting amongst ourselves ?

Nah, any Eircom employee is likely to be reasonably intelligent and like anyone can see theres 3 people stirring the shìte here. The problem arises when they are a little more clever and they spin this into something joe soap might believe.

Silenced Member

These forums have rules and if people can't work within them then they should perhaps seek out someother place that they can feel more comfortable with. - MarcusGarvey

That's just it there is another place an it's being covered up and numerous members are being silenced by only 2 members here with boards.ie support!

take grave exception to this.


quote:

---

you kick
and ban people for haveing an opinion of their own. You dissallow
freedom of speech for everyone

---

Can you please back this up?
Exactly who has been kicked and banned for having an opinion of their own. Who's freedom of speech if being disallowed?

Name them.

I really take umbrage with your side swipes. I've fought for a large part of my adult life for freedom of speech, put my money and time where my mouth is. How dare you.

The problem round here is NOT a lack of freedom of speech but a lack of any concept of when to voluntarily *shut up*.

DeVore.

I have been banned amongst other things for making one complaint!

BTW you haven't shown any proof that the other people that are being banned are the same members! Your IP's don't show Medion with Same IP as Pragmatica or Same Airlock @ Indigo.ie ... all I see is members with different names getting picked on every day I'm here and getting deleted locked and attacked by the clique ... No more will we stand for it!

Listen I have method of getting unlimited email address and using proxies ... what are you going to do DeVore ban everybody that uses proxy.indigo proxy.esat proxy.ntl proxy.chorus proxy.ocean proxy.eircom ?

You can if you like!

Besides I wont put any Dribble on your board no more!

Read All About Conspericy Here Instead DeVore

Thank goodness you lot don't have control of the news groups

Every word you say is being documented for interview with VIP next week

Silenced!

If you would quit banning me for the time being I wouldn't have to post dribbel you dont want to read! I just want to post a link when I'm finished so Just take your finger off the trigger for a few days!

And whichever one of you is pinging me with chuncks of data to knock me of the net! forget about it

Boston

"Silenced Member" how wonderfully dramatic

yawn, time for teletubbie bye bye

Marcus_Banned

This is for the Bard dude.

"Hi and a Happy Christmas to you all. I am new to this Board thing. Do not get me wrong I am not new to what is said on them. Just new to actually being here and posting on it"

I am keep in informed with most of what is said in here but I just had to see all this childish behaveiour for myself becaouse I did not beleive it and the fact that you all are still at it somewhat proves it don't you think ?

"I have just spent the last few
hours reading posts, drinking a few beers."

Now you know how I seem to know soo much ?

As for the rest of the replies. Sit back take a deep breath and relax. Or am I to be treated the same way as some others ? I have read the rules and I understand them. So I do apologise if I have done any wrong. And for Christ's sake calm down!

Have a Happy New Year

Boston

you have to understand, what ever your arguement, what ever your cause, posting these topics are going to get the backs up of many members simply because we (imho) dont really see the connect with ioffl, fine you say your being oppressed, well thats an issue you should take up with the site management, or the moderators in question, their mails arnt hidden.

if your MS, then you will notice, that i personal never ventured into any of these topics about lack of drive and ambition on the commitees part. i only started to get involved when these things started to become all to common.

i was slightly surprised at you being banned, but forgive me if im wrong you did invite devore to do so.(something like delete my account i only read) and the same goes for the other guy.


you keep thinking this is personal, but none of these guys care about you, shocking but true, in 3 weeks time they wont remeber our name.

like were trying to run a campaign here, maybe it isnt perfect, but hell its all we have got, so why try and make it harder then it has to be

murcielago

who or what was cs please?

Curious

Thorbar

[edit]erm sorry hadn't read any of the other ****e that had been going on[/edit]

Marcus_Banned

"if your MS, then you will notice, that i personal never ventured
into any of these topics about lack of drive and ambition on the
commitees part. i only started to get involved when these things
started to become all to common."

For some reason this way of thinking has become all too common. Are you all afraid of this guy or what ? I keep seeing MS being mentioned a lot here and it seems like you all think it is me ? That's fine. Would it scare you all to know it's not ? I just came in here to see what all the hull a ba lou was about and voice my opinion and to see what all the fuss was about. But the more I read these posts the more I wish I was him. Open your eyes and see what is going on around you. Take time out and try to understand why some people feel this way. Don't just shut them out. I just got here and already I am accoused judged and found guilty. If that happened to you would you come back here for more ? Freedom of speech and expression was ment to be Free
and it should be so. Not moderated not edited. People should lead by example and if this is anythng to go by thats bad. Here's somethig to think about. What if some of those guy's were actually people on here with over 1,000 posts ? what if some of these guys were actually a Moderator ? What if I were really the Eircom Mouse sent here to start a row and laugh my head off at you all ? Would it make a difference ? From what I have seen and read you people all claim to be educated.
Maby you all are ? But I happen to know one thing you dont know. Take a look around and see if you can find what I mean. Sometimes the answer is right under your nose. In case you cannot find it I will tell you once again. Stop Fighting amongst yourselves. Calm down and think about what you are doing. They way you are all acting now is really bad.
Dare I say it again YES! Think about what you have done. I am new here and what sorth of replies did I get ? Not ones that would make me want to come back here. Now ask yourself why ? If you cannot see why then you should not be here. Just like me I suppose.

Marcus_Banned

From the Dustaz guy

"Unlilkely, as the average age of the posters here is approx 10 years older (altho lately, you wouldnt know that)"

For someone that is soo clever do you not consider this to be a bit insulting to anyone that posts here ? And does it not also entice people to give a negative responce ? And you also made a spelling mistake. Does that mean you are just like the rest of us 10 year olds or just someone pretending to be a lot older ? You said three people were stirring the ****e here are you now the forth ?

This is the sorth of thing I am talking about can you not see it for what it is. ? You are only adding fuel to the fire.

Bard

Hello topic... there you are... degenerating into argumentative drivel.

Go to sleep, there's a good topic.

--

If you'd like to post on the ACTUAL issues concerning IOFFL, feel free.

If you want to post bullsh*t arguments or pointless attacks on the committee (or anyone else) personal or otherwise, it will be closed or deleted.

Clear?

Thanks,