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Opinion and suggestions...
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27-12-2001 12:42am#1Grab a coffee....
Firstly, this is not a forum I visit often because I find it too noisy... too much fluff to get through before I find something interesting to read.
Based on that, I would prefer to see more filtered content on the main website. I would be concerned that there still isn't a proper FAQ on the main site - if I came to www.irelandoffline.com as a first time viewer, I wouldn't necessarily bother to read through the .org stuff.... and getting to the forum (here), I might lose interest after going through a few topics....
My suggestion is to have a section on the main site - just even under the news page - that has a synopsis of the more interesting topics discussed in depth here.... like what I sometimes see on topgolds ubb....
Something like:
posterA says:
blah blah blah...
*********
but posterB thinks:
rah rah rah etc..., snipping out all the fluff in between...
So basically someone would go through the more relevant content here and present it on a more immediately accessible format on the main site. This content could also form the backbone of a newsletter…
I think that it would be more immediately accessible to newcomers that way and I believe that as a pressure group, new members are the lifeblood...
Secondly, having mentioned the FAQ earlier in the post, I think that this is pretty important to implement on the main site straight away. I see that a committee member is dealing with this... what state of readiness is it in... and if he/she needs help with it, why not put out a request. And I don't necessarily mean a FAQ to be a technical dictionary - basically a FAQ of what are the issues involved, like no flat rate etc... something that won't intimidate or bamboozle a newbie/technophobe.. basically something your mother could read and at the end, understand the issues. A more complete FAQ or whatever could be dealt with on an ongoing basis...
Making this preliminary FAQ dynamic would be interesting, adding a "viewed" column in the database and sorting the results by this "viewed" column, you would get an indication of which questions people wanted to see....
Thirdly, as SACM mentioned in his thread, what about the standard letters of complaint? He was criticised for not making any suggestions (bizarrely IMO) but the points he raised were perfectly valid, (albeit in a more disgruntled tone than he could have taken – then his thread got the medion treatment…
)
Again, lets assume I am a newcomer to www.irelandoffline.com - I find out some stuff that gets me going a bit... I want to do something about it... I come to the forum here and lurk for a bit... get overwhelmed by it all and I fade away....
Bearing that in mind, the "what you can do" element on the site is weak tea in my opinion. Ok I can register my support etc, but people will want to be more involved....
And don't say that they can be involved here.... take me as an example - I have nothing to offer on a technical level - I wouldn't know DSL from LSD and besides, the NET/COMMS forum is the home for that kind of stuff... Also, I don’t know any of the legal issues involved... ok I can better understand the Business logic behind some of the decisions but I am not an expert.... basically I am a user.... so why would I post here... to complain about my internet costs? --- seen it all loads of times before.... it's all part of the fluff...
So unless I have some incredible new ideas that will fix everything, there isn't much I can do besides bolster the numbers. But I could bolster the numbers and at the same time send a pre-drafted letter of complaint to my TD. I could read about the relative state of affairs between Ireland and the rest of the EU regarding flat-rate and/or broadband.... I could tell my friends about this and email them a link to the www.irelandoffline.com site - where they could find out everything - not a bit there, a bit here and some more at the .org site... you are assuming that people will delve too deeply IMO.
Lastly, regarding the state of this forum, I find it peculiar that people are so defensive here... If someone posts a complaint that has (even a tiny amount) of merit, don’t slam them for not simultaneously posting a suggested fix. Imagine you are a retailer…. A person comes into your shop and complains to you about something – remember, you could tell them to fvck off, you didn’t ask them to come in.. they are not obliged to come in here… or they can come in here but fvck off and don’t complain….
As a retailer, you would love it if people pointed out where you could improve but surely you could discern this yourself based on the complaint. And then you decide whether to act on the issues rose.
I understand that what we have here is a voluntary pressure group and not a retail business but ignore the parallels at your peril. If committee member x is too busy to take care of say the condensed news idea I proposed here, then put out a request and authorise ordinary members Y and Z to post these kind of news articles on the main site. Basically, this would by extension involve more members because if they posted informative, clear and intelligent discussion on the forum here, their efforts might make it onto the main site.
Operate to your strengths – involve the members more, either directly (with responsibility for a particular job or whatever).
Don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Don’t be defensive when criticised – deduce the best approach to take based on the criticism, as long as the criticism is valid and not flaming…
Regards,
Mark Hennessy.0
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Ok, I can't go into detail because we're still discussing it, but I think it needs to be said that we /are/ attempting to deal with this, and to be fair, we've said that numerous times. All of the problems mentioned in this thread - and we /do/ recognise them as problems - have been voiced here again and again in recent months. Up until recently, it was a moan here and a gripe there, and although we get a little defensive - I'm talking about the past now, not the recent flame wars - I personally feel no guilt over that, because we answered the questions that were asked.
The fact remains though - I know you're all sick of hearing it, but the position is still the same - that we're a voluntary organisation, and we have other stuff to do. In recent weeks, it's all come to a head, but unfortunately on this occasion, it came at a really bad time - Elana and the babs, Martin and work, etc, etc. But we will deal with it. It'll take time, but we will. In recent weeks, three of us had a meeting to try and hash out a reorganisation of the group, including ways of getting the membership more involved; and the Dublin committee members are trying to organise a meeting up there right now. When that happens, we'll most likely have a consensus on what changes to implement, and you'll see a rash of announcements when it does.
Ultimately though, for now, you're going to have to sit back and be patient with us a little more. This week is going to be messy for everyone. Next week probably won't be much better. It's a busy time of year, and the gods are testing us at the moment, with the Euro, recessions and debt collectors on our doorsteps, etc. We'll get there, but like I said, you have to be patient with us. Complaining will achieve nothing unless it comes bundled with solutions. Criticism is useless without constructive commentary. It'll change nothing.
Finally, and this is a heartfelt request - when people do post blatant and unhelpful criticism, could you all just ignore it please. Pretend the post isn't there, block the user, do what you want, but just ignore it. It isn't helping us, but the flame wars are even worse. We're (the committee) all sick to death of it. Some us have called our own memberships into question many times in recent weeks. It's not good for morale. So please, I'm asking nicely, just ignore the trolls, ok? You're only giving them what they want when the respond. They're sick little people with no lives. Let them live in their own filth, eh?
Thanks,
adam0 -
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AMOI, is there any plans for another membership meeting/debate similar to the one held in July(?), where IOFFL discusses the situation again with members of the offending/affected organisations? Perhaps in February, after (if) the official launch of ADSL? Maybe show eircom that despite the obvious marketing hype they'll surround it with, they're not fooling the internet users. Debate on eircom's future plans/LLU/other DSL services/FRIACO and anything else that is being dealt with at that time. I didn't go to the first one, being overwhelmed as a newbie, but would be front row centre for another one 0
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My 2cents worth.
The .org/.net/.com thing is a really nice idea in a branding sense. Theres no need for the pages to be on different sites tho, keep it all in one site (KISS as somone said above).
The faq/wiki thingie is way too in depth for Joe Dialup, it needs a simpler one.
More news would be nice (i know it needs people to have time to update the site tho.)
A meeting would be a great idea. As was said, after the supposed launch of DSL would be good timing. If its not launched, we cant talk about that. If it is, then the price and QOS could be discussed. A LOT has happened in this area since the last meeting and seminar. A new one would be very useful especially if some telco reps could be persuaded to come?
Oh and :Originally posted by «Bo§ton»
i do to thing the FAG sections should be on the main site, .
Best typo EVER!!! 0
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