can you guys give me some carrier advice !

Unstable · 02-01-2002 2:02pm #1

hiyas, I've been wanting to ask for some advice from you programming guys...

For the last 2 years, I've been working in networking (computer network administration) , which included setting up servers/workstations and applications for clients. My problem is simply that, I feel like trying to get into another area of IT... eg Programming/software development/website programming somewhere where there is a more of a team effort/project etc. Now, I have done a number of websites for hobby as well as business, but they were only a bit interactive as I only know how to edit applets and javascript programs, but only just.

I'm thinking of doing a course starting in july/september, to get me going on programming. I did do a bit of Visual Basic around a year ago, but I was more interested in Network administration at the time so I put all my effort into learning about communiction protocals and servers etc.

I guess eventually, I would like to maybe get into the computer games industry. I have narrowed my options down to 2 programming languages... Visual Basic and Java. Anybody have any advice

for me !!??!!
I am also trying to think aprox 1 year into the future, and to see what language will be in demand...

Evil Phil · 02-01-2002 2:34pm

I'd recommend you do Java. The learning curve from Java to vb is a lot shorter than vb to Java, although that might change with vb .net

However if I was starting again I'd learn C then Java, then VB. C will teach you a lot of stuff about how a programming language actually works that you won't learn with Java or vb.

GoneShootin · 02-01-2002 3:20pm

agree with Evil Phil

Java definately the way to go

Unstable · 02-01-2002 4:03pm

thanks for responding.

the only thing i'm worried about if i learn C or C++ first, is that C is least in demand job-wise at the moment

!
Would it be a bad move if I skipped C and went straight into Java ?

seamus · 02-01-2002 5:40pm

Nope. First language I ever learnt was Java (OK I did some Qbasic when I was 12, but...) and I still don't know any C or C++, although I can roughly understand them both due to their similarity to Java

dragonkin · 02-01-2002 10:46pm

If you are planning to learn Java, I highly recommend the book
"Java 2 the Complete Reference" from Osborne
The first few chapers are a great introduction to the language as Mr. Schildt's teaching abilities are amazing.

DK

phobos · 03-01-2002 1:46am

As Evil Phil said, learn C then Java. That's what I did and I never looked back. C is a great first language because it will make you learn the programming foundations very well ideed.

You said that C isn't in too much of a demand these days, you're right, but we recommend you learn it, to

Teach you good programming principals
Have it on your CV
Make it easy for you to learn other languages

You could skip C, and do Java, but Java jumps straight in to OO (Object Orientation) techniques, and I personally don't think this is the best thing you could learn at the beginning. The most important thing is to take your time, and not rush things. Programming is all about hands-on experience, you won't learn everything from a book.

Having said that here is some links to free books on the web, to get you started

Java Books
Click Here

C & General Programming Books
Click Here

Good Luck

;-phobos-)

Hobbes · 03-01-2002 9:54am

I would say start with Java.

Lemming · 03-01-2002 10:28am

I'd have to go with C on this one. It's the foundation of many another language!

My reason being that I think starting straight into OO programming is probably not the best initiation for beginners. People need to see some sort of logical sequence of steps at first. A language like C does that, whereas Java doesn't as clearly (being OO), if you follow my meaning Hobbes??

Evil Phil · 03-01-2002 11:10am

Oops, I missed the bit about the computer games industry. If that's what you want to do you're going to need C++ experience, and quite a bit of it. But don't jump the gun, wait until you're an accomplished programmer before you make up your mind.

Lemming · 03-01-2002 11:20am

Originally posted by Evil Phil
Oops, I missed the bit about the computer games industry. If that's what you want to do you're going to need C++ experience, and quite a bit of it. But don't jump the gun, wait until you're an accomplished programmer before you make up your mind.

Just a warning too (games programming related) ... the likes of M$ Direct X and the OpenGL graphics suite tend to have rather steep learning curves. You tend to go from easy start to rather difficult and complex very quickly. So know your C/C++

I've seen a few games written using Delphi and Java (to name a few), but the vast majority use C/C++ as Phil pointed out

paddymee · 03-01-2002 9:47pm

I'm agnositic concerning the languages, I've done 'em all. But learn OOD. A great book that gives great examples and opens your eyes to OOD is "Design Patterns" by Gamma, Helm, and the others.

I'm actually reading it again just to keep my skills sharp.

Paddy

Hobbes · 04-01-2002 9:28am

paddymee is pretty much correct. There is no golden language.

People will swear by Java or C++ or C or VB or C# (muffled laugh), but at the end of the day it means dick.

Your looking for a starting language. For that I would recommend Java. The reason being it's easy to learn and it's easy to migrate to another language if you so wish at a later stage.

The main thing you want to know when picking a starting language is your aptitude to program. A lot of people think "Hey I'll learn a language and I'll get a job" when in fact just knowing the syntax is half the stuff.

TBH, if a person had absolutly no programming experience I'd say learn LOGO.

Computer games programming is a very different way of programming. I would recommend getting a couple of books on it, and see if it's your kettle of fish.

Also games development is not restricted to just programming, and despite the hype games development is not fun fun fun and getting to play the game every day. More often then not you will be sick using the product by the time it goes to the public.

Trojan · 04-01-2002 5:33pm

See this thread[/url] for a recent discussion of this subject.

I still stand by C: by all means code in other languages, but you should still make sure that you learn the basics of C, it's a universal language[0].

Al.

0. I don't mean universal like Java is. Read my post on that thread for context if you feel like flaming that statement.

Slydice · 04-01-2002 5:37pm

Last year i learned C (still learning) as part of my college course and I found it a brilliant base for when i started using perl (by myself) this year. I don't know much about java at the moment however if it's game programming your after, a mate of mine told me recently that you need to learn some Direct X landguage.

My 2c

phobos · 04-01-2002 6:06pm

you need to learn some Direct X landguage

Just to clear up a bit of confusion there, DirectX/OpenGL/Glide etc, they are all APIs (Application Programming Interfaces), not programming languages. They can be implemented in programming languages, but are not langauges themselves.

If games programming is your path to fame, I recommend you leave Java alone for now. I am a Java head (Previously a C head), and I know that Java just isn't as fast as the likes of C/C++. But then again a lot of people think of graphics, when someone mentions Game programming. When making a game you could be doing something else such as an AI engine. A friend of mine is writing an AI Engine (in C++) for a Real Time Strategy type game, using CBR technlogies. He wants to go in to the games programming field, and have never touched the graphical APIs so far. Oh no wait, he has, he did some DirectX stuff with VB

ATM there are more employment prospects with Java, but Java is no good for games (graphical/high performance) programming. That will change though coz Java is advancing at an amasing rate, thanks to our friends @ Sun.

;-phobos-)

Lemming · 04-01-2002 6:22pm

Originally posted by phobos

ATM there are more employment prospects with Java, but Java is no good for games (graphical/high performance) programming. That will change though coz Java is advancing at an amasing rate, thanks to our friends @ Sun.

Bah!! Nothing like a spot of COBOL for graphics (well .. not really!)
Long live COBOL!! Killing people since 1798!

(anyone else here been unfortunate enough to have *THAT* language inflicted upon them??)

paddymee · 04-01-2002 7:11pm

(anyone else here been unfortunate enough to have *THAT* language inflicted upon them??) Bah!! Nothing like a spot of COBOL for graphics (well .. not really!)

In college for a while, but I copied the project so wasn't too bad.

But funny enough I was at a Microsoft .Net conference a few weeks ago and they were showing COBOL.Net. What a laugh. All us young pups sniggering at all the gray hairs

MS did it as a kind of joke and to show that anything can be ported to their CLR.

Stephen · 05-01-2002 1:39am

Heh, my "hardware"/assembly language lecturer is a big COBOL-head. He's always saying how great it is

Thankfully he's not inflicting it upon us.

Unstable · 05-01-2002 10:20pm

thanks for the help guys,
There is some conflicting advice here, some say start with java, others say start with c ... Overall, I think I'm going to go over the basics of C/C++ (I did do some C++ in college in '99) and then jump into Java. And as people are saying, Java might just be a lot quicker in a few years time, so I'm thinking this is the right way to go, regarding the future and n'all

Hobbes · 06-01-2002 11:09am

Originally posted by Unstable
And as people are saying, Java might just be a lot quicker in a few years time

Anyone who tells you Java is slow probably hasn't used the latest JDK or thinks IE JVM is java.

The latest JDK has graphics support (OpenGL?). I haven't seen the speed of that, and certainly Java may not be the fastest for things like FPS but it is far from slow.

MarcusGarvey · 06-01-2002 10:27pm

Originally posted by dragonkin
If you are planning to learn Java, I highly recommend the book
"Java 2 the Complete Reference" from Osborne
The first few chapers are a great introduction to the language as Mr. Schildt's teaching abilities are amazing.

I agree with you there, I gave this book to a friend and he wouldn't give it back. He gave me back book tokens instead.

The same guy has done a C book as well which is very good.

I'd start with C and move on from there.

Scheme is meant to be a good language to learn too from reviews I've heard.

I like Python. From what I've seen so far its impressive.

Evil Phil · 07-01-2002 5:57pm

Havok have jobs for games programmers here

can you guys give me some carrier advice !

Comments