help on setting up a Mac G4 :(

sutty

in my new job we just go a G4 imac (its very crap) we cant find the command prompt or a way to ping a server or other comp, also do we need any diff protocol's for looking at a NT network???
we all think that one mouse butten is bad, well it just got worse.......the mouse is the mouse butten(you tip the mouse down and it clicks....also when you pick it up and place it down it clicks) the cables are as short as fup (about a foot and a hlaf and there's one exection lead for it )

in short i hated them before and now i realy hate them

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Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Kali

haha i remember saying about those mice on a different thread.. didnt think they were serious about actually releasing them.. oh god

El_Presidente

Sutty, I suggest AppleTalk. Its works pretty well.

sutty

Thanks hob, we'er just useing it to test the new web page , but still they realy are crap, theres no logon on it and the only good thing about it is that the os boots right away. and that mouse is realy, realy, realy bad.....who ever came up with it was one evil S.O.B.

i so want to put rc5 on it to see how fast it is.... it a duel 450MHz etc...etc

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Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Excelsior

for someone who trumps his beloved amds so loudly i find it hard to swallow when you describe the G4 as "crap." fine, you may not appreciate its focus, you may find its ergonomics and its pandering to its core market a little disconerting but to call it CRAP!?!
the G4 is the finest piece of gear i have ever seen (i have yet to enjoy the cube) and macs are inherent in so much of the world one takes for granted. 1.2 gigaflops at 400mhz.
take it amd.
simply because they arent designed for you doesnt mean they are crap.

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http://www.challenge-ie.com/columns/excelsior

[This message has been edited by Excelsior (edited 31-08-2000).]

Hobbes

>theres no logon on it

Actually there is. If your using OS9 the system can be configured per user as well.

You should have AppleTalk log on as well which can be customized by groups/users.

I think most of your frustration of the machine being crap revolves around the lack of knowledge of it.

Btw, I got DAVE instead of AppleTalk as I use a laptop and I can't guarantee that every person I know is going to have appletalk running on thier windoze box.

sutty

"the G4 is the finest piece of gear i have ever seen" fine have you ever tryed to set one up? no i didn't think so.....you cant set up you own pc yet....as for it being crap what i ment was that it is a bad basic lay out, for a large lan 120+ pc's as you can't ping with it by default and cant see a NT box with it by default.....you sould get a apple chat cd with it that works on nt box's but we didn't. we had to ping from our comps back in the IT room to make sure we didn't conflict.
i had two NT boxes setup and runing before the other guy had the mac runing on the network (i even had to go looking for a screen for the second NT box) as for the cables on it there all to short and the way the mac stands up on those handles is very unsetling (you wouldn't want a 3500k+ box to fall off a table onto the floor when someone bumps the table would you?). lucky for us where only going to use it for web page testing and thats all. oh and also kev whats this about??????"The HP Way is genuine. You see HP ads and they always say "Invent", well that is
because everyone here really likes to innovate and streamline. People enjoy their jobs. They like coming to work here." thats the biggest load of crap...try doing a shift of 12hrs on the fact floor then see how much you like it there and how much other ppl like it. as for the "Invent" part what a load of crap, you dont have the time where your working in there.

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Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Hobbes

So because the two of you can't set up a Mac quickly you assume it's crap? Give me a break.

The machine is layed out pretty well, it's only because your used to Windows thats all.

You want to know how long it took me to set up my laptop on our network?

Type in two IP addresses and then click OK and plug in network cable.

And if your worried about the box falling off the table... put it on the floor.

So quit your whining. If you want help fine, but don't assume you know anything about the machine if you haven't used it before.

Hobbes

Go out and buy yourself a good USB mouse and replace the mouse that is with the machine.

There is no command prompt.

Go to tucows.com and download "MAC TCP Watcher", it's free. You will have ping, etc.

You can set up TCP/IP at the control menu. It's pretty straight forward.

As for talking to NT's. You can either buy DAVE which basically pretends to the MS network that your machine is windows (So you can share/read drives). Or you can switch on AppleTalk support on Windows (Can't remember what versions support it).

Or worst comes to worst just use FTP.

Excelsior

hobbes is right sutty.

i wont get in a ****ing match with you over pc know-how. i mean, come on, there really isnt a need to.

however i will say this: what i write on my column is commented on at my column.
you want to say something sutty, say it there.

the G4 is a super machine. there is no questioning that.
simply due to the fact that it doesn't cause you the pain your beloved amd does, ("oooh, i love pain!") doesn't mean you can disregard it.
or do so knowing that it is a damn sight more impressive in a myriad of ways than the pc is.

they dont do the same job- this isnt an attempt to initiate some navel gazing examination of "which one is better?"
i simply state for the record that if you want to flame me, do it in the right place; you want to disregard your good fortune to work on a G4, then do it at your own expense.

<dealing with you over for a month. sweet>

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http://www.challenge-ie.com/columns/excelsior

OmiOmi

I totally agree... the G4 is the computer of today and tomorrow... PC is just good to play and nothing else..

I've both mac and pc and I love my mac.. I use it for everything... And the games I donthave for mac I play on the PC....

sutty

Hob's i dont think you got what i was saying
"And if your worried about the box falling off the table... put it on the floor" the tables over two feet tall and the cables are under that, not even the monitor cable would make it, that's a very bad thing in my mind and it should be fixed by apple ASAP. Kev as for my AMD Athlon it never gives me any probs.....your thinking of the K6-2 that i use to have. as for the G4 beeing "sooooo" fast its because its 64 bit as far as i know. once Intel and AMD release there 64bit CPU it will not be "soooo" fast, apple are ment to be having probs getting it to work above 800MHz, when the Intel and AMD's come out they will be running at over 2GHz so we'll see which is better and and at a lower cost.

---

Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Hobbes

Well I know nothing of the cable lengths, I would guess they are standard length, but who knows.

1. You can buy a cable extension for a monitor (up to 20 metres) for $6 here. Or a whole extension (keyb+mouse+monitor) for little over $10.

2. The first mistake everyone makes when they claim PC's is better is "Mine is a faster speed then yours". Heck I used to do it too.

500MHz PIII is not even remotely as fast as a 500MHz G4. You simply can't compare them.

The only area a Pentium outperforms a Mac based on processor speed is real numbers (to my knowledge, this may no longer be the case).

Likewise with memory. You hear the PC owner cry "Waaaa, it only has 128MB of RAM my PC has 300MB". Well get this, most software runs in a fraction of the memory that windows uses.

Yep, for example Rainbow 6. In Windows needs 128, in Mac needs only 32.

The operating system is better defined for the User, get ResEdit and you can even define it for the power user (they don't put it on the machine by default as newbies can really mess up thier machine).

But it's kind of like the AS/400 in that respect. For the normal User the machine is great, for sysadmin/developer it requires work.

I prefer the mac in general because the OS is a hell of a lot more stable then windows and it is laid out better.

Like I said it just takes getting used to. You really need a Mac Guru to sit down with you for an hour to go though everything (I did and I was impressed).

Anyway unless your doing real time rendering without a graphics card the processor is no longer the bottleneck in the machine (and hasn't been for quite some time). I would prefer to see them do something about faster internet/network connection for all first.

Excelsior

i wasnt referring to amds chips sutty. the athalon is fine. i was referring to your attitude to computing.
i am in the school of thought that user friendliness is the key. User friendliness is relative to the tasks being done on it, therefore windows is best for me, mac os is best for hobbes and you with your "ooh, look how 133+ i am" are probably best suited to a ba5tardization of linux where you can only get drivers off a porn site.
still if you would like to continue believing that you can compare cpus based on the mhz scale go right ahead.
maybe you'll choose your car based on which one gets to 60 from standstill fastest.

hey hobbes- do you find the current mac os stable and friendly? i have a few mac afficiando friends who really want it trimmed back a little. when is the next mac os update coming? it was planned for autumn, was it not? i guess i would just like to know about your opinions on it.

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http://www.challenge-ie.com/columns/excelsior

Excelsior

one more thing. you quoteed me as writing, "soooo" fast in reference to the G4s speed.
i never wrote that.

furthermore, my name is not kev. no one refers to me as kev. you can call me excelsior, or by my christened name, kevin.
or call me what you like, because i am off to europe, in 20 seconds.
bye all

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http://www.challenge-ie.com/columns/excelsior

Hobbes

Well actually I'm still using 8.6 Which is stable. I got the mac by accident in work, so they aren't too happy spending out more cash for upgrades.

Lump

MAC with a command prompt, I wish, I remember editing on an Avid, Mac based, took me 2 weeks to get used to the format after the pc. I still dont like them. But TBH they own as Graphic/sound/video editing machines.

John

OmiOmi

Hobbes...If you need any mac software then let me know. If you want OS9.0 or MacOSX just mail me or summah

sutty

even though your not here kev....sorry kevin i'll say it....when i said "soooo" i wasn't quoting you on that. i was realy ment to be saying SLOW...as for that MHz compare thing. if you look at what i said "as for the G4 beeing "sooooo" fast its because its 64 bit as far as i know. once Intel and AMD release there 64bit CPU it will not be "soooo" fast, apple are ment to be having probs getting it to work above 800MHz, when the Intel and AMD's come out they will be running at over 2GHz so we'll see which is better and and at a lower cost." you will see that i said that it is 64bit and Athlons and PIII's are 32 making the apple faster in the processing part. the hole feel to the G4 is slow and as for user friendlyness....i have to say that if a user knew what they where doing they wouldn't make so many fup ups on pc's and wouldn't ask stuped questions like what does this program do (Citrix for connecting pc's to networks..lan's..wan's..dial-up) when you tell them they dont have a clue what your saying. oh and Linux drivers can not only be found on porn sites....if you knew something about useing drivers you would know that linux drivers come with it or can be found on linux sites also Nvidea.com has linux drivers on it. if you look at the net now there are a lot more sites doing linux drivers in the past year than there ever was. in fact linux is the better os as it can be changed to suite the company that use it as long as they make the changes avable to the internet. and as for its gui interface (x-windows) there are so many different kinds of them that you are bound to find one that you like better than a mac os or windows.

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Ciaran Sutcliffe
aka: sutty
[HIV]sutty
For a good time goto:
http://www.hotinternetvirgins.com

Hobbes

So when AMD release thier new chip it will be faster then Apples current one. Wow. I should use that argument against everything. "When they invent teleportation, your car is going suck!"

And BFD with the processor speed, least MAC have been behaving when it comes to standards long before Windows did.

Your average consumer doesn't have a clue about computers and probably doesn't want to know how to either. Which is why Apple is more friendly, just plug in power/network+modem cable and it works.

Unless of course you haven't got a clue how to use the machine.

WhiteWashMan

MEOW!!!!

tobi

Why couldn't Intel and Apple just have used the same endian type in the first place?

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I warned you! But did you listen to me? Oh no, you knew it all, didn't you? Oh, its just a harmless little bunny, isn't it?

sutty

ok, ok can we stop this now!!!!
I think the G4 is crap and Hobbes thinks it's the bee's nees. enough said! i started this post as i needed some help on seting it up on our lan, Hobbes reply to my post was very help full. thank you for it btw, i'm sorry this turn'd into a little debate about pc V apple, but Excelsior(kevin) realy gets under my skin when he trys to say something about computers, i realy dont think he's even use one before(G4 that is) and he know's fup all about pc hardware. + we hate each other.
sorry once again Hobbes and thanks once again for the help.

Kali

haha right the amount of *****in going on here.

mac advantages:

user friendliness.
everything is there for you in the one box usually.. no setting up devices initially etc.
processor and system is prefectly capable of running software smoothly and quickly.
lack of upgrade options.
lack of everyday software for everyday users (not photoshop or quark ppl)

pc advantages:
complete choice for ppl above the novice stage with regards hardware specification.
compatibility with a much larger market.
no mac o/s has smp support.
walk into a computer software shop. look around.
cheaper.
faster.

some little things about g4's processor:
L2 cache runs at half the processor speed off-die.
.25 micron process .. (hence the ramping problems) .. by february x86 processors will be on a .13 die.
it has a 4-stage pipeline while the p3 and athlon have over ten each.

you cant compare clock speeds.
but if you compare by price .. you can build your own 1ghz athlon tbird system for about the same as a G4 500Mhz... why pay more for less?

(note constructive comments for once)

Hobbes

Again some FUD going on.

>lack of upgrade options.

In what sense? Tell me exactly what can't I upgrade?

I upgraded my mouse and memory when I bought my laptop. I can upgrade the processor+memory still if work would let me.

The Boxes have just as much upgrading as a PC. We even have... *gasp* 3D cards!

Pretty much anything that has a USB connection works with my Mac. Plug in, works.

>lack of everyday software for everyday users (not photoshop or quark ppl)

Not true again. The local Mac shop has a silly amount of selection of stuff. Most of the Office related stuff comes bundled with the Mac. Photoshop LE retails for $99 (free if you buy a Graphics Tablet for the same price).

And there is TONS of stuff on the net for the Mac.

As for not support SMP? If we are going to ***** over things How about USB? You do know that MS rigged it so USB wasn't going to be popular on the PC (so to stop people moving to another machines and only needing to change thier PC).

So in NT it doesn't work, and on 95/98 its clunky. On a Mac plug the thing in, it just works no Dialog boxes, no "building Driver Database", no waiting.

Btw, when building your argument don't go "MAC Has X but next year PC will have Y". Do you not think the Mac will change as well?

Someone complaining about Mac not going over 1GHz, yet Intel are recalling thiers.

Also when comparing, don't compare that you can build a machine cheaper. How about if I buy a premade machine? If your going to compare, compare like.

Shiminay

It's a religious war really, isn't it?

We've got a plethora of MACs here in the office. I'm so used to a PC now, I found it very difficult initially to do stuff on it (even finding the software was an imposibility!). I got one of our MAC users to sit down with me for a half hour - she showed me around and I was up and running doing what I needed to do.
When I first started with a PC, I was just as clueless, but again, I had someone sit down with me.

Now, I'm not a fan of MAC's, but I see their usefulness every day when they're being used by people who know what they're at. It's the same with every tool - unless you know what you're doing with it - there's no point trying to do it!

---

All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

Kali

Originally posted by Hobbes:
The Boxes have just as much upgrading as a PC. We even have... *gasp* 3D cards!

pity theres no drivers though.

Not true again. The local Mac shop has a silly amount of selection of stuff. Most of the Office related stuff comes bundled with the Mac. Photoshop LE retails for $99 (free if you buy a Graphics Tablet for the same price).

sorry wheres the local mac shop, i must have missed it

Btw, when building your argument don't go "MAC Has X but next year PC will have Y". Do you not think the Mac will change as well?

Someone complaining about Mac not going over 1GHz, yet Intel are recalling thiers.

Also when comparing, don't compare that you can build a machine cheaper. How about if I buy a premade machine? If your going to compare, compare like.
[/B]

"compare like" ?

did you not see where i mentioned "you cannot compare the processors in terms of clock speed".. therefore i mentioned the G4's construction from a technical point of view.
i made one "mac has x but pc will have y" statement as a comparison only with regards the problems and the reason that apple are having ramping their processors to faster clock speeds.. (so readers know why they arent at similar speeds).

there have been no x86 processors at 1Ghz recalled :P

then i mentioned that for the majority of consumers the only possible comparison is price where yet again a PC comes out on top regardless of whether its built by hand or prebuilt.

this arguement really isnt going to get anywhere.
needless to say apple will always have their little niche markets with rich home users who want something to go in their art-deco living room to type letters on and those stubborn graphic designers who want to pay 3 grand for a 22" display so they can use photoshop.

Shiminay

Speaking of Photoshop - that's a sh1te piece of software... I've never had any training on it and I don't know anything about it - that makes it rubbish!
PSP 0wns graphics!!!


Disclaimer...
This is a silly post designed to show the silliness of the arguement that started this whole thing off.

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All the best,

Dav
@B^)
My page of stuff

Hobbes

Pity no drivers though? Yes that would make sense, ship the 3D cards without drivers. What kind of muppet answer is that? Of course they ship with Drivers.

Next you'll tell me "well you haven't got DirectX", which is a Windows only GFX format which was designed to stop games developers from porting easy to other platforms.

Btw, you can get any Mac software in Ireland by a number of software outlets. The Mac center being one of them, or just order online.

Btw, look back the last 3 days on this board. There is a news story about Intel recalling thier new PIII chips due to problems.

And your method of comparison leaves little to be desired. Sure the PIII is great but when Apple release thier new machines middle of next year your current machine is going to suck. Sound familar.



[This message has been edited by Hobbes (edited 06-09-2000).]