Car Insurance

Blitzkrieger

I've moaned about this several times b4. Basically :

*We (young drivers) are getting screwed.
*We are getting discriminated against.
*It is legal to get insurance anywhere in Europe.
*Insurance companies make loads of profit.

To hell with any studies or reports or Sept. 11th. Just look at insurance execs and what they drive. Look at insurers' offices and how well done-up they are. Look at insurance company managers with their suits, gold watches, etc.

And quit quoting entire posts you n00bs

jk

The system seamus was talking about is Traksure and it's bollox.

European law sez if you're licensed to provide insurance in one European country, you can legally provide insurance in all European countries. In reality it is impossible to get past the language barrier and the git on the front desk who knows nothing and just doesn't care.

No women allowed to look at this one : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21663

And I was a sarcastic git this day wasn't I? : http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34741

shamrock

I worked it out one day. On a 1.0 it would cost me £3690 to get insured. that was the cheapest I could find.

Now I basically need a car for getting to college and work. It works out cheaper for me to get taxis for the whole year than to insure myself. Never mind the cost of running the car and the cost fo the car itself.

Ah well

leeroybrown

I figure I'll be insuring a car pretty soon, and I'll probably get screwed over.

For the past few years I've been getting away with free inclusion as a named driver on my fathers car, but pretty soon I'll no longer be able to do that. So I'll probably end up having to get put on my fathers new policy as a named driver.

I'll either be second or third named driver depending on which is cheaper (or for that matter possible). I'm 20 with a full licence and my sister is 17 and on a first provisional. Now I reckon that the insurance as a named driver on a 1.8 litre petrol will be pretty steep, especially considering how often I'll be behind the wheel.

My other option of course is to bite the bullet (and put the bike away) and buy a cheap small engined secondhand and insure it myself on third party, fire and theft. I should be able to put together some cash for this which will remove the need to boorow, and thus incur comprehensive. Then drive and just hope that I can build a no-claims bonus.

As I see it our insurance problems are down to a number of things:

1. There are too many idiots out there who don't know how to drive safely. I don't mean people who speed, I mean people who are not able to judge speed for conditions and drive safely. I consider myself a fairly safe driver, but I regularly meet idiots on the road who quite obviously don't know what they're doing.

2. Theres a huge number of cars driven without proper insurance. Every Irish insurance company has to pay into a fund to cover the costs of uninsured accidents. This comes out of our premiums.

3. Litigation due to accidents is on the up. Now I have friends who have won money legitimately in crash injury cases, but these people were genuinely damaged in some way. A lot os superfluous claims seem to be getting big payouts and are increasing due to greed and the ambulance chasing solicitor mentality.

4. The insurance companies must be making some profits on us. This I can't really begrudge them, it is business after all.

BTW, does anyone out there have a definite idea what the realistic premiums are for the above?

b20uvkft6m5xwg

Originally posted by leeroybrown

2. Theres a huge number of cars driven without proper insurance. Every Irish insurance company has to pay into a fund to cover the costs of uninsured accidents. This comes out of our premiums.

7-8% of all cars on Irish roads are uninsured.
The fund referred to is known as the Motor Insurance Bureau of Ireland (MIBI). This pays out for accidents to innocent parties involving uninsured drivers. It is funded by the premium holders, usually in or around 10% of your premium. The charge depends on what Insurance company, as they pay into the fund pro rata their market share- ie- if Axa have 35% of the Car Insurance Market they have to pay into 35% of the MIBI fund.

I dont have the numbers to hand but for that 7-8% of uninsured drivers, the relative percentage of accidents involving uninsured drivers is much higher, and hence a big cots to the average premium holder.

Also, just in relation to propsed "scams", if you are tinkering with your policy and effectiviely lying about the terms of use or named drivers, you too are contributing to the amount the MIBI has to pay out, becuase if you are involved in an accident, the insurance company has the right not to compensate you because of your breach of Utmost Good Faith, and the MIBI must compensate innocent 3rd Parties.
'Tis a Vicious Circle

seamus

Originally posted by 80project
I dont have the numbers to hand but for that 7-8% of uninsured drivers, the relative percentage of accidents involving uninsured drivers is much higher, and hence a big cots to the average premium holder.

Didn't know that.....so it's the people who cause accidents, subsequently get refused insurance, and then carry on driving and cause yet more accidents...let's blame them hehe It just shows the need for US-type legislation in terms of licencing. We should all be made carry our licences and insurance certs with us when we drive. Plenty of people get by checkpoints by having false insurance discs - I mean look at it, you could make a passable copy using MS word ffs :rolleyes: I carry my licence around anyway, and my insurance cert could happily fit in the glove compartment. You know it makes sense!

The Gopher

Dunno if you know this but some companys actually refuse to give insurance to some ppl purely cos of the housing estate they live in.My mother once worked on fones in a certain insurance company.They had a big list of places and ppl to refuse,including that housing estate in Dundalk where that man was stabbed last night,the notorious Southill area of Limerick,parts of Clondalkin where there are halting sites and so on,parts of Dub inner city etc.They would often also refuse ppl with Gypsy names.And,an infamous Dublin alledged criminal gang leader is forbidden from getting insurance from this company!Guess who[though I cant tell you].

b20uvkft6m5xwg

While I know it is dicrimanatory, any business can refuse who they want accept as a risk. If they feel the risk is too great, wherein the weighting of a premium could not address the correspondong risk, then they can turn the business down. Thats life. I dont like it, expecially if ppl have a geniune want to insure themselves from a peril.

Note however....
This does not apply to Motor insurance. A statutory instrument known as the Client-Cases Agreement exists. This stipulates that if a person is turned down by 5 insurance companies, the 1st company which turned them down is COMPULSORY obliged to write the risk. Obviously this is a policy decision not to have those wanting to drive, not driving around uninsured:)

Odian

toloola was that by any chance Hiberna insurance? was the test hard? one day course?


Yea it is possible to get a relative to go first insured and u go named, in the long run it will be more expensive, eventully ull have to get ure own insurance and it will be the same as gettin it at 17/18 then waiting till ur 25/26 because legelly named drivers are not ment to be driving the car in every day life.


how can you prove you have rang 5 companies? does it work?

leeroybrown

Maybe for someone at 17/18 it would prove cheaper to get a parent/guardian to insure the car and then drive it as a named driver, especially if the main insurer(s) has a very low risk rating.

But if you are a bit older and can afford the insurance it might be a better idea to get out there and work up an insurance record and no-claims-bonus.

Spunog UIE

this works for some, but if ya were with pmpa or whoever they are not they don't take on under21 drivers at all even as a 2nd name driver, and if ya wanna choose to go with a different company then they usually say that you had to be a policy holder for 3years or more to get a young 2nd name driver. Which sux and happened to me. GEYNESS of it all. This summer should had my motorbike on the road £1800 insurance which is also **** expensive but gawd just want it out on the road, sick of public transport and scaping lifts, which usually leads to, do this or that or i won't drive ya. Feel's like been a cripple it does!

leeroybrown

it looks like we young males have to have a sex change or adopt a false identity making us older until we are in out late 20's and are able to find cheap insurance.

So if anyone out there is thinkingof a sex change, the op would be paid for by the reduced insurance.

Since I plan on doing neither, looks like I better start saving.

sceptre

Originally posted by 80project


7-8% of all cars on Irish roads are uninsured.

Scary. I id hear that a lot of people ("young drivers", they said, but let's not start mud-slinging, I'm only 26 myself in any case) who had been paying by installments just stopped paying the premiums, obviously getting away with just displaying the disc they got when they took out the policy. Figures like that are really scary though, especially considering that people who aren't pushed about paying their insurance dues may not be the most careful drivers around.

Agree with any comments made on "having to prove you're insured at any given time"

Originally posted by The Gopher
And,an infamous Dublin alledged criminal gang leader is forbidden from getting insurance from this company!Guess who[though I cant tell you].

Erm, Gerard Hutch?

sceptre

Originally posted by Gideon
this works for some, but if ya were with pmpa or whoever they are not they don't take on under21 drivers at all even as a 2nd name driver, and if ya wanna choose to go with a different company then they usually say that you had to be a policy holder for 3years or more to get a young 2nd name driver. Which sux and happened to me. GEYNESS of it all.

Odd, my father is with AXA/PMPA, has my brother as a named driver on the policy for the last two years (since he was 17). Cost was about 1500 to get him added on comprehensive.

Someone in my brother's class (same age) wandered into the same insurance office and asked about getting himself added to his father's policy. They just laughed him out of there - told him to come back in a few years.

So in that case at least, it depended on who was doing the asking.

leeroybrown

Well your father probably contacted the insurance company and arranged to have your brother put on the policy. Your father probably has a long insurance history with PMPA/AXA and your brother was probably named along with a few other drivers. (ie. Enough names on the policy to cover the risk.)

Your brothers friend on the other hand contacted the office himself so they probably had no information about him. If his father arranged it and had sufficient history with the Co. he might have gotten on.

Also you don't mention any specs for the two cars.

seamus

Oh yeah, it totally depends on who's asking. Plenty of times I've rang up for a quote, and then they get some basic details (incl. age) then say 'Can I give you a ring back in 20 mins?'. Yeah sure. You never hear from them again. My parents ringing the same no 5 mins later get a quote straightaway for me. Bastards.

leeroybrown

Yeah, they have no rsppect for someone who doesn't look like they own a car themself.

Just wondering BTW:

Has any one out there (about 20ish with a full licence) inssured something with about a 1 litre engine (maybe a bit bigger) recently? I'd like to know what the going rate for insurance for the likes of me is ATM and I have neither the time or the phone (lost recently) to get a quote.

BabyEater

I am 20 and have a full license and my insurance is about IR£3000
on a 1L . You can get online quotes at http://www.quinn-direct.com

Clinical Waste

Yes, Blah, blah, blah insurance is a rip off and its discriminatory against certain demographics and it keeps going up, but has anyone stopped to consider why? Sure they make huge profits and every year they will continue to do so regardless of the amount of accidents /claims. This you can't change.
But what you can change is driving habits.
Claims are spiralling apparently and possibly this is where we need to address the problem.
Better Driving > Less claims > Less Price rises > more No claim bonus > better deals > happy drivers > less accidents > less claims etc....

Check out the drivers around you today as you drive home. F*cking woeful.
Check out how many people:
*indicate before changing lanes or in a roundabout
*overtake on the inside
*DRINK-DRIVE
*speed pointlessly between traffic lights
* speed everywhere pointlessly
* wander all over the road trying to decide where to go
etc etc etc
I mean half the feckers didn't even have to pass a test. Govt just gave the licences out. CLEVER!

And it would help if the Gardai actually did police the road and enforced the rules, not just the parking.

ps I DO NOT ANY ASSOCIATIONS TO INSURANCE COMPANIES EXCEPT AS A REGULAR CUSTOMER!

Saruman

Im 22 and have been driving on a full licence since I was 19, I started driving at 18 and passed my test first time because I am in fact a good driver.. im not overly slow, on a normal road I keep in the limit, even 30mph roads... on a motorway I speed up to 70mph (traffic permitting) but never over.. Im confident and know what im doing, usually considerate (not to ignorant incompetent drivers though).. and have a i mentioned a good driver? Well does that matter that im accident free since Apr 1998 when I started driving? Of course not im under 25 so fair game!!

when I started I was charged £2,500 by PMPA who in fairness where the only ones to give a "REASONABLE" quote like that compared to Quinn Direct (their sister company to boot) almost £6,000.. right ill think about that one I said to the girl on the phone.. Anyway a year later of safe driving and for no reason my renewal is £3,500?? Why?? They said its just the way it is, a lot of accidents in my age group. hmm I dont recall causing any of them.. anyway a few months later a finally (over a year later) got my driving test and passed first time after completing many driving lessons.. in fact I had 10 lessons before I started driving and a pre-test lesson with AIRPORT driving school (I recommend them!). Anyway I went along to PMPA on my way to drop in the cert to get my licence processed and they gave me back over £900 bringing it down close to what it had been the first time.. nice of them I suppose... Anyway the next year its £2,500 or so again (a hundred here or there does not matter when you think in thousands!!!) Anyway this is nuts!! so anyway next time around in 2001 I paid £1,900 or around that.. below the 2k mark.. woohoo!! Though I also buy a new car a couple of months later.. a 1.2 ltr Clio as opposed to a 1ltr swift! so up it goes by almost £300!! Thats me up to now still accident free and still paying fat arse rip off merchants.. but funnily enough I blame the government as much as them.. I mean we have the most lax rules in the world when it comes to driving.. Driving lessons BEFORE you can get into a car should be mandatory, even you parents teaching you should NOT be allowed until you take professional lessons.. reason being you parents may be good drivers but you will pick up their bad habits, which to them is perfectly fine as they are experienced but for an inexperienced driver they are asking for trouble. After these lessons you should have a test to prove you are eligible for a government driving test, if you pass this then you drive as provisional driver. then you do THE driving test and when you pass you have a full licence.. etc etc

There are other options.. what about if an insurer gives you a test BEFORE your quote and then you are given a quote based on that? Or better still the Canadian way where you start off an a basic rate and that only goes up if you are in fact in an accident.. this rip off cowboy crap cant continue.. and now they are set to go up by another 25%??????????

WhiteWashMan

thats a pretty good idea actually. the one about mandatory driving lessons.
you can then at least be assured that everyone on the road will have had some sort of formal training or teaching and should be competatnt.
insurance companies will only dis it though as it would lead to lower premiums :rolleyes:

Robbo

A mare of mine was only offered insurance *if* he got 8 lessons with a specified driving instructor. Think the company was PMPA.

sceptre

Originally posted by leeroybrown
Also you don't mention any specs for the two cars.

Ah, well then

Father's car is a 98 Corolla - 1.3 or 1.4 (whichever the regular Corollas were that year). Brother's friend's father (now that's just looking too complicated) was something similar, not more than a 1.6 in any case.

Now, last year (April) I paid £2300 for 99 Corolla Luna 1.4

Hopefully I'll be passing my test before the renewal and even get some money back (along with a drop, with any luck - at least I'll hopefully have 12 months clean and can shop around a bit more)

GF passed her test last week, she's 24, insurance is due again in August. Rebate? Haha, 50 euro (I lie, she got the last payment cancelled, so they actually gave her back eur200 - not a great deal though to get back with eight months left on policy - I'm guessing her insurance was about 1300 in old punts)

Blitzkrieger

I was wondering today why the hell driving licenses expire. It's just a case of filling out a form every 10 years and though I'm sure the £35 pound from everyone every 10 years adds up, it can't be a big revenue boost.

I always been for extra driver training and safety. If they're going to force you to replace your licence every 10 years - why not force you to do a test too? Most muppets out there would probably fail.




Insurers have to make a profit, but why do they have to make off the young driver? www.mijag.com

WhiteWashMan

having just got my uk version of the european driving licence (the one for cars ) it doesnt actually expire until the day before my 70th birthday.
which is nice

of course, in 40 years time i will still look 27

phoenix2181

guys this might sound stupid but I'm goin to be renting a house in nottingham in england, but I will be spending most of my time over here can I buy a car in the uk put it under el cheapo uk insurance & pretend I'm only over here on business, as I'll be traveling to the uk at least once a month.
I can get a 3 series bmw 2.0 litre 1994 car for 4000 sterling & 3rd party insurance for £700 sterling & I'm only goin 23

sceptre

Originally posted by phoenix2181
guys this might sound stupid but I'm goin to be renting a house in nottingham in england, but I will be spending most of my time over here can I buy a car in the uk put it under el cheapo uk insurance & pretend I'm only over here on business, as I'll be traveling to the uk at least once a month.
I can get a 3 series bmw 2.0 litre 1994 car for 4000 sterling & 3rd party insurance for £700 sterling & I'm only goin 23

You'd probably get screwed if you were in an accident as most insurers will only insure your car outside of their own territory (ie UK in this case) for up to 60 days a year (and to be covered you have to tell them in advance that you will be outside the country)

So you might end up not insured at all.
And that's ignoring the idea of them pulling your cover after the fact if they found out what you were doing. Same principle applies as that outlined by the guy who mentioned that to be a second-named driver on a policy you really shouldn't have exclusive access to the car for more than a few days a week.

So try it at your own risk (but I just hope I'm not the guy whose car you plough into coming off a roundabout somewhere)

WhiteWashMan

i can sell you an irish reg car if you want. since i know have a uk reg one, i dont need myold one

Blitzkrieger

With my insurance company you don't have to tell them you're taking the car to another country, but you only get the minimum insurance required by law in that country. E.g. if I had an english policy with those rules I would only have 3rd party cover in Ireland. Contact your insurer about it